I'm interested in the HN feedback on this. Almost everyone agrees that when you have a small team startup that working together in an office is important. Then at some point it goes from everyone together as a good idea into a "corporate campus" and it seems a lot of people think the "corporate campus" is an evil bad idea. Is it really more about the company attitude than location?
I`m actually curious as to what the campus looks like myself (interior). I have been searching for images with no avail. If anyone finds anything, link me?
I used to work on this campus in 1997. It kinda reminded me of an apartment complex in that there is a large open areas surrounded by free-standing buildings. At the time, there was a dry cleaners drop off, at least one small restaurant and an exercise facility. There's also a trail that rings the entire campus. In the building I had access to, the outer walls were built out with small offices that would fit 1-4 people and the middle part of the buildings had reception desks and labs. Everything was taupe and tan with the medium purple Sun color in contrast. The offices have nice large windows looking over the parking lot and the marshes beyond. There was plenty of nice break space, and I remember being surprised to find a room designated for women to pump breastmilk. But then, there were a lot of women on that campus.
ETA: if you click on the map link in the article and zoom in, you'll get a pretty good look. The building off to the left side of the picture that is most separate from the rest was the exercise facility. The building in the upper right is the one I worked in.
Did you feel like there wasn't enough outdoor space?
Comparing this (via aerial imagery) to working on the Microsoft campus in the late 90s, it seems like Sun campus is mostly indoors, as opposed to the "college" feel of Microsoft or Google.
I would think that Facebook would want to emulate Google's campuses more, with a larger number of smaller buildings to promote a more collegiate atmosphere. But this is all based on four 45-degree aerial shots, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on the place.
It doesn't seem like Facebook has much choice, really. Even Google had to take over an existing campus (SGI) that fit their requirements. Can you imagine the expense of building a completely new campus in Silicon Valley?
Apple's been planning to build a new campus for years. Even they had to buy an existing property (HP's old campus), and reportedly are planning to build an entirely new campus on the same land.
As successful and rich as Facebook is, they aren't Apple-rich. They probably aren't even Apple-picky about what their new campus is like--not that they don't care, but it's hard to imagine anyone else having the same level of perfectionism as Apple.
Cal. Labor Code § 1030 et seq. (2001) provides that employers need to allow a break and provide a room for a mother who desires to express milk in private.
Probably just a way of summing up the changes that come with it. People more spread out, not everybody knows everybody anymore, you don't see the top execs walking around the office anymore.... not that Facebook isn't already partway there already. Silos and cliques develop, etc.
The whole feeling of working changes from feeling like part of the team to just being a job.
I don't think that the idea of a corporate campus is evil or bad, but I do think that the implementation of corporate campuses is often very bad. Most corporate campuses that I've visited rely on large squarish buildings, which means lots of interior office space with no windows. They also tend to be isolated from the surrounding area by huge parking lots, with limited walkability to nearby restaurants and shops.
It should be possible to build a corporate campus that doesn't suffer from these problems, but I'm unable to think of an example.
"Peopleware" describes a solution to this problem. The basic idea is to design office buildings like hotels, where every room has plenty of windows. The buildings have to be long and thin rather than blocky.
The rounded triangular blocks of the Vienna International Centre (Vienna UN offices) are a curious architectual solution to this problem. Having been built in the 70s, they're not exactly pretty (and currently being cleared of asbestos), but they do provide a vast number of well-lit offices along with larger central areas.
Microsoft's Graphics Business Unit (1987-1992) built out a long and thin building at 2460 Sand Hill Road, Menlo Park, in this way, using central hallways; every person had a private office with a door and an outside window looking out at the hills around Stanford. Core areas were used for conference rooms and labs.
Ouch, Sun Quentin... That will be a hellish experience for people used to the previous locations. A startup I worked for was a couple of blocks away from there on Willow and the area is a vast wasteland. Good for Facebook in some ways though, since people will have a strong disincentive to leave the campus: there is nothing in the immediate area so you have to drive anywhere you might go, and it is located at a choke-point in a major commuter route so if you leave the office after 3pm the traffic will prevent you from returning before 5pm even if you just bounce to the old Facebook office and back.
I'm afraid I have to agree with this assessment, having worked in that area before, and having also experienced the relatively glories of downtown Palo Alto.
I have worked in downtown Palo Alto and at "Sun Quentin" in Menlo Park.
I liked both locations very much. If you have ever lived in the desert and liked it, you might like what we used to call "New Menlo". I can see how others might be horrified at the idea of working in such an austere landscape.
Downtown PA is a popular after-work destination. The burden of work can seem very light when you can hear groups of people laughing as they walk by during lunch or in the evening. The parking and traffic are a tolerable hassle. The city of Palo Alto has done a nice job of providing parking over the years.
The Sun offices out on the edge of the bay were unlike many others that I have worked in. Although there were cubicles in odd corners, more than 95% of my building was subdivided into high-quality office space with doors that closed (and locked!). The views, the site arrangement, and the good offices felt right for sustained, intense concentration.
The neighborhood surrounding the Sun campus on the land side alternates between post-WWII low income housing and warehousing or light industrial parks. It's fairly bleak.
I would not hesitate to walk a few miles after work in downtown PA. The network of trails on the bay levees are a wonderful place to run or ride a bike. I always liked to take short walks out there in the daytime or early evening.
On the land side of New Menlo, I never walked beyond the edge of the parking lot. I didn't know anyone else who did either. In that regard, the place is indeed a prison.
Even they had to buy another company's old campus--even though they're rich and perfectionist enough to tear it down and build a new one on top of it. It doesn't sound like there's much room to develop new real estate in Silicon Valley.
Plenty of room here. It just depends where you want to be. For our last office space it was a choice between individual offices for everyone, but the 'wrong' side of the 101 in Menlo Park, vs desks in downtown PA. Downtown PA was very much a unanimous decision.
Is there any better metaphor for creative destruction than this? Google bought SGI's campus just as SGI died, and now Facebook is scavenging Sun's campus. The new rising from the ashes of the old, and so forth.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 74.6 ms ] threadETA: if you click on the map link in the article and zoom in, you'll get a pretty good look. The building off to the left side of the picture that is most separate from the rest was the exercise facility. The building in the upper right is the one I worked in.
Comparing this (via aerial imagery) to working on the Microsoft campus in the late 90s, it seems like Sun campus is mostly indoors, as opposed to the "college" feel of Microsoft or Google.
I would think that Facebook would want to emulate Google's campuses more, with a larger number of smaller buildings to promote a more collegiate atmosphere. But this is all based on four 45-degree aerial shots, so I'm curious what your thoughts are on the place.
Apple's been planning to build a new campus for years. Even they had to buy an existing property (HP's old campus), and reportedly are planning to build an entirely new campus on the same land.
As successful and rich as Facebook is, they aren't Apple-rich. They probably aren't even Apple-picky about what their new campus is like--not that they don't care, but it's hard to imagine anyone else having the same level of perfectionism as Apple.
I believe that, in California, companies of a certain size need to provide a room for this independent of how many women the company employs.
From http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=14389 :
Cal. Labor Code § 1030 et seq. (2001) provides that employers need to allow a break and provide a room for a mother who desires to express milk in private.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=9466431...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/-miko-/1001185172/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/fallenpegasus/2979890601/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/j3ss1c/2395178005/
Here is a series of shots showing the new interior. Looks like the nice private offices are history, in favor of open-plan.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nicksieger/3312863160/
If you continue searching, you can cut out some clutter by using Sun's identifier for the two Menlo Park campuses: "MPK".
The whole feeling of working changes from feeling like part of the team to just being a job.
It should be possible to build a corporate campus that doesn't suffer from these problems, but I'm unable to think of an example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_International_Centre
I liked both locations very much. If you have ever lived in the desert and liked it, you might like what we used to call "New Menlo". I can see how others might be horrified at the idea of working in such an austere landscape.
Downtown PA is a popular after-work destination. The burden of work can seem very light when you can hear groups of people laughing as they walk by during lunch or in the evening. The parking and traffic are a tolerable hassle. The city of Palo Alto has done a nice job of providing parking over the years.
The Sun offices out on the edge of the bay were unlike many others that I have worked in. Although there were cubicles in odd corners, more than 95% of my building was subdivided into high-quality office space with doors that closed (and locked!). The views, the site arrangement, and the good offices felt right for sustained, intense concentration.
The neighborhood surrounding the Sun campus on the land side alternates between post-WWII low income housing and warehousing or light industrial parks. It's fairly bleak.
I would not hesitate to walk a few miles after work in downtown PA. The network of trails on the bay levees are a wonderful place to run or ride a bike. I always liked to take short walks out there in the daytime or early evening.
On the land side of New Menlo, I never walked beyond the edge of the parking lot. I didn't know anyone else who did either. In that regard, the place is indeed a prison.
Facebook == Buy
Apple == Build
Apple is building a new campus, "City of Apple". Famed architect, Norman Foster, is designing it.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/12/06/acclaimed_arch...