I’m afraid that’s pretty close to my initial reaction too. When I read the headline, there was an implied suffix of “so we can more effectively intrude on your privacy”.
It’s a great shame. There are clearly some very talented people at Facebook. But all that work is paid for by a dystopian business model that has moved effortlessly and insidiously from connecting people for benign social good (or at least relatively so) to one that facilitates erosion of privacy and social manipulation on a global scale. As a software engineer I’m deeply troubled that the craft I’ve loved since my teens is being wielded to such negative societal consequence.
The interesting part of this story for me is that computer proficiency on language tasks is improving so rapidly that a benchmark introduced just last year has become too easy. It seems like there is little reason to think this research will hit a wall any time soon? Will we have computers acing SAT's and writing college essays?
It hardly matters which tech giant paid for it this time, since they are publishing the results and the others will build from there. Next year it might be Google's turn again?
Here is the part I find scary: consider that they're publishing the models and the code, so anyone could use it. What might malware authors or nation-state actors build? (Sometimes working together.)
Why do companies even want to spy on you in the first place? Because advertisers want to target ads more effectively. Advertisers believe they can manipulate consumer behavior through ads, so they are willing to pay facebook a shit ton for it.
As NLP technology gets better and better, you won't even need traditional ads anymore. You can control people's behavior directly just by selectively boosting real organic posts that push for your agenda.
It's only impractical right now because they don't have the tech to get that sort of high level control. For example the recent controversy about Youtube radicalizing people with more and more extremist videos is just a bug. In a more boring dystopia you would just be shown better and better Mcdonald memes until you name your first-born a Mcnugget. I can't think of anything this tech won't touch once they have algorithmic control of information. Rather than targeting ads for elections, you might be able to say something like "find all posts that swing voters will find convincing and show it to them". Whoever can convince facebook to do that will name the next president.
Facebook should probably wait for a few years until it does it. Currently it is the main traffic driver for “news” outlets and they will likely try to discredit the search engine.
Someone else will do it by then. Also, i dont think so - facebook has been better at giving traffic to other sites - unlike google they dont usually scrape and rehost them .
I totally support facebook leveraging their tech and data, all i am saying is that it will be discredited day one given the media hostility against it.
They're already modern version of web directory with millions of contributors so they probably just need to organise it. Or they already did it ? Did they ?
this was my reaction, too. please don't patronize me by telling me it's for my benefit. advances in things like NLP are great, especially for the social sciences, but it's not going to connect me to my (facebook) world.
I have refused to get hired by google and Facebook because they give me the creeps. Duck duck go cannot afford me. Maybe, we can start our own search/social/nlp startup? I don't care about making any money, if you are in the same boat as I am (dreading the status quo, wanting to do something, don't need or not driven by money, reply to this and we will try to make it happen - reminds me of the hypersane post from a couple days ago btw, the crazies not driven by materialism and can see through shit).
My lord, programmers really are brainwashed by money! You proved his point. But I'm not trying to be rude; it's the industry and shitty circumstances that are at fault for giving newer programmers the impression that it's all about high paying jobs for employers. Maybe you're newer to the craft--allow me to explain the purest mindset of a programmer in terms of who I'm guessing this guy to be:
They can't afford him because nobody can. He's already financially self-sufficient, probably maintains a low burn rate, has money saved, and makes enough money to live off of maintenance projects or easy returning clients he's collected over the years. And just maybe has a minor PRODUCT of his own already that prints him money monthly! Which is exactly what we are supposed to be doing as programmers.
If you're not in programming to invent stuff, but just to put food in your mouth (or if you're not hot on the trail of making this happen), you completely missed the boat in terms of why you became a programmer!! It's NEVER TO WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE. It's to invent a situation of complete freedom for yourself, while experiencing the joy of being able to create things as fast as you think it.
In essence, nobody can afford him because he works for himself. He's simply saying: "any other bad ass programmers out there wanna build something dope together because we are self-made DIY programmers that don't need any form of 'daddy' telling us what to do, and because we wanna build something great for the right reasons, to make the world a better place--ANYONE OUT THERE?"
Me. hit me at james@faceyspacey.com
If you're a newer programmer, look at current jobs and whatever you must do to make ends meet as stepping stones. And get out early. Don't build a family while employed for Google and Facebook or whoever or you'll struggle to get off the teet. While you have minimal responsibilities go independent and create truer financial self-sufficiency for yourself.
If it's already too late for you and you have already created too much financial burden for yourself in the form of family, mortgages, etc, well, you messed up. Sorry Jack. If you're good at your craft you will engineer your way out of this situation. As long as you're still dependent on large salaries from Facebook et al, you're not truly the captain of your vessel, and it can be tipped at any time.
I'm not saying doing stints at these employers is a bad thing. But just make sure they are stepping stones. That means you learn tons of great technical stuff, you make great contacts, you grow your reputation, and then you use all that to create your own business. Period. Never settle for working for others. When you do, you're essentially oppressed and not truly in control of your own destiny, in relation to how much better things can get. You do what you gotta do while you gotta do it, and you get out and move on up as soon as you can. Everything is relative. So great for you if you just got the job. But shame on you if it's been enough years and you've become complacent.
The hierarchy goes: employed -> contractor (client based, usually a small number) -> creator of a product-based business (no investors, ideally no partners; and no, it doesn't need to be a billion dollar unicorn; a couple mil changes lives forever).
We're still all oppressed by our governments and taxes, but nevertheless you have far more control over your destiny at the top of this ladder.
Generally speaking, at most companies, one's credibility and therefore ability to affect outcomes is directly linked to titles and compensation (generally speaking). This is why they (or really any incumbents) cannot afford me. Besides, while I don't care about money that puts bread on the table, a privacy focused communication and/or search platform that turns into a successful and sustainable business is definitely something I am interested in.
Duck cannot afford you because the pay scales are now set by the very companies you despise, and those companies can afford those pay scales both they are able to extract monopoly profits (market structure issue) and your privacy is not a concern for them (which marketers are willing to pay for).
When we fix the market structure issue and address the legal issue of privacy, ironically, the pay issue of Duck not being able to afford you may even go away.
It sounds like you are already set monetarily, and that you are assured a job at either Google or Facebook (but that you choose not to work there on your own volition).
My question to you is - why can't Duck Duck Go afford you?
Hell yeah. Since deleting my FB account - and thereby being ostracised socially - I’ve spent a lot of my idle time thinking about what a decentralised, private-by-design, Facebook-like social network might look like. Is it feasible to host on-device? Does it need coordination or centralisation at all? How does privacy work? If central servers are required, can they be reliably funded? Can it be both ethical and profitable? How do we avoid consolidation of a decentralised design (cf RSS, SMTP)? How do we fund what needs to be done? Does such a network already exist? How do we know we can trust it? How do we promote it? I’ve got many more questions, particularly around ethics and sustainability, but that’s where I’ve been spending the few idle cycles that I have.
If that's true, I have a huge respect for people like you. I can't say the same for some of my friends at university who have no issue working for such unethical companies
33 comments
[ 0.72 ms ] story [ 68.1 ms ] threadIt’s a great shame. There are clearly some very talented people at Facebook. But all that work is paid for by a dystopian business model that has moved effortlessly and insidiously from connecting people for benign social good (or at least relatively so) to one that facilitates erosion of privacy and social manipulation on a global scale. As a software engineer I’m deeply troubled that the craft I’ve loved since my teens is being wielded to such negative societal consequence.
It hardly matters which tech giant paid for it this time, since they are publishing the results and the others will build from there. Next year it might be Google's turn again?
Here is the part I find scary: consider that they're publishing the models and the code, so anyone could use it. What might malware authors or nation-state actors build? (Sometimes working together.)
As NLP technology gets better and better, you won't even need traditional ads anymore. You can control people's behavior directly just by selectively boosting real organic posts that push for your agenda.
It's only impractical right now because they don't have the tech to get that sort of high level control. For example the recent controversy about Youtube radicalizing people with more and more extremist videos is just a bug. In a more boring dystopia you would just be shown better and better Mcdonald memes until you name your first-born a Mcnugget. I can't think of anything this tech won't touch once they have algorithmic control of information. Rather than targeting ads for elections, you might be able to say something like "find all posts that swing voters will find convincing and show it to them". Whoever can convince facebook to do that will name the next president.
> facebook.com
I'm not even going to bother clicking on that link.
They can't afford him because nobody can. He's already financially self-sufficient, probably maintains a low burn rate, has money saved, and makes enough money to live off of maintenance projects or easy returning clients he's collected over the years. And just maybe has a minor PRODUCT of his own already that prints him money monthly! Which is exactly what we are supposed to be doing as programmers.
If you're not in programming to invent stuff, but just to put food in your mouth (or if you're not hot on the trail of making this happen), you completely missed the boat in terms of why you became a programmer!! It's NEVER TO WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE. It's to invent a situation of complete freedom for yourself, while experiencing the joy of being able to create things as fast as you think it.
In essence, nobody can afford him because he works for himself. He's simply saying: "any other bad ass programmers out there wanna build something dope together because we are self-made DIY programmers that don't need any form of 'daddy' telling us what to do, and because we wanna build something great for the right reasons, to make the world a better place--ANYONE OUT THERE?"
Me. hit me at james@faceyspacey.com
If you're a newer programmer, look at current jobs and whatever you must do to make ends meet as stepping stones. And get out early. Don't build a family while employed for Google and Facebook or whoever or you'll struggle to get off the teet. While you have minimal responsibilities go independent and create truer financial self-sufficiency for yourself.
If it's already too late for you and you have already created too much financial burden for yourself in the form of family, mortgages, etc, well, you messed up. Sorry Jack. If you're good at your craft you will engineer your way out of this situation. As long as you're still dependent on large salaries from Facebook et al, you're not truly the captain of your vessel, and it can be tipped at any time.
I'm not saying doing stints at these employers is a bad thing. But just make sure they are stepping stones. That means you learn tons of great technical stuff, you make great contacts, you grow your reputation, and then you use all that to create your own business. Period. Never settle for working for others. When you do, you're essentially oppressed and not truly in control of your own destiny, in relation to how much better things can get. You do what you gotta do while you gotta do it, and you get out and move on up as soon as you can. Everything is relative. So great for you if you just got the job. But shame on you if it's been enough years and you've become complacent.
The hierarchy goes: employed -> contractor (client based, usually a small number) -> creator of a product-based business (no investors, ideally no partners; and no, it doesn't need to be a billion dollar unicorn; a couple mil changes lives forever).
We're still all oppressed by our governments and taxes, but nevertheless you have far more control over your destiny at the top of this ladder.
When we fix the market structure issue and address the legal issue of privacy, ironically, the pay issue of Duck not being able to afford you may even go away.
My question to you is - why can't Duck Duck Go afford you?
Start there. You’ll probably build something incredible.