Just these days I was wondering which tablet would be able to run Ubuntu Touch or something alike and while support for "real" tablets seems to be quite rare, there are quite a few tablet projects based on the Raspberry Pi. I hope this will continue.
As a former Canonical (Ubuntu Phone team) engineer I do like the ideas of indie OS, be it Ubuntu Touch, Open webOS, or even LineageOS Android for Pi. We'll definitely work with communities closely to bring more options to CutiePi.
Btw maybe it might be of your interest to know that some people are porting Ubuntu Touch by UBports to Pinephone and Librem 5 phones, and some others are trying to port it to Raspberry Pi 3 /4.
I like this project. However, I wish that under the FAQ for "What's the target price?" they had a better answer than "We'll know better in DVT stage, meanwhile please find the bill of materials in design files for detail." Who is going to Google each of the 89 components listed in the bill of materials to get a rough guess (since it doesn't list price info)?
hi, project creator penk here, thanks for the comment, "we don't know" is the honest answer we can give at this moment, since we hadn't ordered any parts.
Those products appear to be priced around 250-280 USD. Would it be safe to say your product might be priced around 200-400 USD? I realize an exact price is premature and future tariffs could impact the price.
Component prices will usually be a very important factor when choosing which components to use.
However, when you go into production and order parts from distributors, you will usually get special deals which can lower the price of your product. Problems can also appear if one of your single source components is out of stock, then you will have to wait (probably a long time) for it to get back in stock, choose an alternative (probably more expensive) component, or buy it on the gray market.
What does the grey market for components even look like? I can't think that anybody is bothering to steal individual components, so are we talking possibly-counterfeit parts?
The grey market doesn't mean stolen - it just means unauthorized distributors. Companies building a product will end up with excess parts -- either they bought too many to satisfy minimum purchases, or changed the design, or cancelled the product. They sell these parts to brokers, who then resell them. The way to avoid this is to limit sole-source suppliers and make sure there are backup plans (parts that fit with same footprint, etc.)
>What does the grey market for components even look like? I can't think that anybody is bothering to steal individual components, so are we talking possibly-counterfeit parts?
So somewhat related, check out Strange Parts on YouTube. His past couple of few videos involve him building a Samsung Galaxy from components in Shenzhen and then having it x-rayed by a place that (as one of their functions) identifies counterfeit parts.
In the video with the x-ray they talk about reclaimed and counterfeit parts and you can see differences between what was supposed to be a real camera module and an actual real camera module in one of the x-rays.
"we don't know" is not as good as "we don't know, but it won't be less than the material cost, which is currently X" would go a long way towards taking the people you want to get excited about this product seriously. We understand how "things cost money" works, but going "we don't know, figure it out yourself" is not a nice thing to tell people who are actually interested in what you're making =)
Even updating it to say "it will likely be in the $100-$200 range due to material cost and production fees" is fine: that's a _huge_ range, and still better than "we don't know, figure it out yourself".
It is impossible to find cheap US-based PCB manufacturing, the ones who compete on price all left for China years ago. What's left services the high-end/custom/defense/1-day-turnaround market.
Another point w/ looking at a pricing that's in flux: if prices are changing markedly over time, and you're tracking those, showing the plot provides information.
As in: is the trend downwards (my expectation), upwards (would be a surprise), or perhaps varying (market showing major shifts). And by how much.
A comparable concept is the bug burn-down charts the Debian project has produced over the past decade or two, which hugely assist with getting some sense of when "when it's ready" might be.
And sure, wrap the information in all the "this is not a price committment" language you care to.
As a hobbyist: I really am. Looking up the price for each component takes a lot of time, which I would much rather spend working on my hw/code projects.
Simple rule of FAQs: if you don't know, say you don't know, and stop. Don't then go on to tease about how people could look up the component costs if they really want to, because are you also going to let them guess as your production overhead and the profit margin? No. Just say "we don't know". Or, at this point, after limited runs, give a real indication.
I guess that's an old habit from maintaining open-source projects, fully disclosed & all transparent policy sometimes make things overly complicated. My apologies for the bad writing ;-)
I really like the idea of an open hackable tablet but the screen resolution of 1280x800 might be limiting. My digital life revolves around my 11" iPad Pro (except for my GPU rig for ML and coding, and a MacBook for light weight dev and also writing) and the hires display is important.
Is it possible to buy higher-resolution display parts individually, or is there a minimum order size?
Also, most Android/Windows OEMs low-end tablets are 1280 x 800, so I'm guessing higher-res screens strain their batteries and GPU too much for them to be viable?
I'm quite interested in how you integrate power management into the PI.
There's very little in the way of 'real' power management solutions for the PI and a myriad of 'power down when the battery is low' solutions ... is a decent, cheap, reliable fuel gauge hat just too much to ask for? :D
We're using the MCU to swtich power source between USB charging or battery, using it's ADC to serve as a voltage divider to get actual AD value from the battery, and a MP2636GR chip for charging and voltage step-up.
Noob here, does this mean that Pi doesn't throttle down CPUs and other chippery? (I'd think that this is solved a long time ago between Linux and ARM, though.)
This uses the CM3 Lite. According to a blog post in January, 2019 on the release of the CM3+, the “legacy” CM1, CM3 and CM3 Lite products are considered “not recommended for new designs”.
[1] https://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/2019/01/introducing-the-ra...
I would literally kill for a tablet that did nothing but very very very very good active pen stuff. I bought a Dell latitude tablet and while it's good enough (one note is also just good enough) that I don't regret it I've been wondering whether I could put together something that just focused on digitization using something a pi. are there any plans to support an active pen?
'Literally kill' you said :) . I got the HP Chromebook X2 with stylus and while some chrome os rough edges persist(crostini apps don't work with on screen keyboard, for eg), it is fast and responsive with great battery life so far.
Didn't mention humans, though. Maybe they were going to kill a housefly, or a roach, or mosquito, or something that typically gets killed anyway, without even getting good stylus input for it?
Looks great but @ $499 in the US, the price is steep for experimentation. I'd love to rent one, see how it matches with me and then buy it in full. If this was under 200 I'd just risk buying and finding if I like it later.
But am I the only one who is confused why they created a main board instead of just using a Pi model B? Most of the things on their board (usb, hdmi, wifi, Bluetooth, card slot, etc) are already there in a Pi. Especially since the boards are about $90 each...
I appreciate what they did and why. But no, that's not the exact same thing as the raspberry pi with it's ports de-populated. You need to provide power and ethernet (if required) yourself, I think.
The compute model is the right choice for an actual product (i.e. making more than one), but for someone trying to jam a pi into a thin space, removing the ports is almost as thin. Plus you don't also need a motherboard.
The compute module is also still waiting for it's BCM2711 refresh, another reason it's not the same thing. But when that does arrive, if it's just a case of swapping the modules that'll be a brilliant upgrade for this project.
The screen on the frontpage photo says "armv7l". I think that's only printed on the Raspberry Pi 4. The specs say it's a Compute Module 3+, which I'd expect to print "armv7".
So either the photo is not genuine or the pictured device is using a Raspberry Pi 4 (possibly a pre-release Compute Module thereof).
Not sure if I'm being silly here, but with the article about Talon (https://talonvoice.com/) and coding by voice from earlier this week, I think this could potentially provide an interesting setup for a portable development setup? (I quite dislike typing on touchscreens and being able to develop by voice also seems like a portable skill)
I am getting a bit overwhelmed - I would like to get a basic level of "maker" capabilities at home for my kids but ... it's not the kit, not the hardware, it's the projects
I think I am looking for easy to follow instructions for dads
Check out the decently kid-friendly kits that Pimoroni sells. They have kits for various levels of difficulties, including some using Raspberry Pi.
(https://shop.pimoroni.com)
I would start with arduino, not raspberry pi. I don't think raspberry pi's are very good or fun as "maker" projects and end up being too specialized or overwhelming because of the OS.
I've learned more and had much more fun making little toys, programming basic displays, getting sensor data, etc with arduino and other microcontroller development boards. There is too much already going on in a raspberry pi for it to really be a "blank canvas" for maker projects. Hence you see all of these projects where they are essentially repurposing the existing rpi, not creating their own thing with it. Its not really a "maker" project. Its more like building a computer.
Plus, you will find way more true maker projects targeted for kids for microcontroller development than you would for raspberry pi.
Plus, Arduino has a specialized c/c++ library for it which makes things just awesome for starting out. It's like writing python - stupid easy.
What's the biggest difference between this and a regular tablet running linux (I'm not sure they exist but I'm assuming most android tablets can run any Linux?). Is it the addition of GPIO, or somethinbg else?
So the point of the device is to be able to develop pi stuff which is then most likely used on a regular pi when deployed? Am I interpreting that right?
> I'm assuming most android tablets can run any Linux
This is definitely not the case. There are almost no android tablets that people have even bothered figuring out how to boot normal linux on, and I'm not sure there are ANY that have complete driver support.
Other than this your best bet would probably be to try to find an x86 tablet from 5 years ago and even those are a huge pain to use linux on.
I guess I could be able to write some python code with this, using a small 60% keyboard...
It's really a cool device. I mean if I can do whatever I want on a handheld device, I'd be ready to pay 150 euros for it. Android phones are useless if the OS is a walled garden.
This is exactly what I wanted for remote techs troubleshooting. It has a battery and can run more than standard windows utilities. I'll be picking up one of these to play around with when it comes out.
In case anyone is looking for a similar project with a bit more definition, check out the PineTab[1]. It'll probably be pretty cheap (PineBook Pro will go for $200, PinePhone will go for $150), and I'm guessing it'll be available before this project is.
I really like all of these independent tablet/laptop/phone projects! I'm just a little worried that people will pick them up thinking they'll be just like an Android/iOS tablet and end up blaming the company making it.
Neither is the CutiePi, but it does seem significantly farther along the process of becoming a purchasable product [1]. But I do like the idea of using a Pi compute module for the basis of a tablet.
They started off using the compute module, but ended up switching to the Nvidia Jetson Nano. Both of these projects make me wish for a world where a standard pin-out in this SODIMM format arises and we could see some inter-operable competition like we have with PC desktop parts.
148 comments
[ 4.9 ms ] story [ 225 ms ] threadJust these days I was wondering which tablet would be able to run Ubuntu Touch or something alike and while support for "real" tablets seems to be quite rare, there are quite a few tablet projects based on the Raspberry Pi. I hope this will continue.
After all, free software is all about choices.
https://ubports.com/
For your reference the first batch (10pcs) EVT boards is about ~90USD a piece: https://i.imgur.com/anUASlT.jpg
What is the target price range you expect people to pay for such product, above which it wouldn't be worth producing?
For price range I would say kano computer kit touch or raspad tablet are all good products and provide good reference.
Maybe the totally wrong place to ask, but that display looks great. Any ideas where to get one of those?
Is component selection conducted without any price consideration?
However, when you go into production and order parts from distributors, you will usually get special deals which can lower the price of your product. Problems can also appear if one of your single source components is out of stock, then you will have to wait (probably a long time) for it to get back in stock, choose an alternative (probably more expensive) component, or buy it on the gray market.
Edit: grammar and spelling
So somewhat related, check out Strange Parts on YouTube. His past couple of few videos involve him building a Samsung Galaxy from components in Shenzhen and then having it x-rayed by a place that (as one of their functions) identifies counterfeit parts.
In the video with the x-ray they talk about reclaimed and counterfeit parts and you can see differences between what was supposed to be a real camera module and an actual real camera module in one of the x-rays.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO8DQrSp5yEP937qNqTooOw
Even updating it to say "it will likely be in the $100-$200 range due to material cost and production fees" is fine: that's a _huge_ range, and still better than "we don't know, figure it out yourself".
"I'd be surprised if the retail price ends up being less than $___ or more than $___"
As in: is the trend downwards (my expectation), upwards (would be a surprise), or perhaps varying (market showing major shifts). And by how much.
A comparable concept is the bug burn-down charts the Debian project has produced over the past decade or two, which hugely assist with getting some sense of when "when it's ready" might be.
And sure, wrap the information in all the "this is not a price committment" language you care to.
This is an open source product, and not consumer-grade in the least, so I imagine hobbyists wouldn't be opposed to doing that legwork.
its hackable means its also customizable.
also maybe once release is successful they can offer flavour variants with higher resolution screens, speciality hardware i dunno...
Also, most Android/Windows OEMs low-end tablets are 1280 x 800, so I'm guessing higher-res screens strain their batteries and GPU too much for them to be viable?
There's very little in the way of 'real' power management solutions for the PI and a myriad of 'power down when the battery is low' solutions ... is a decent, cheap, reliable fuel gauge hat just too much to ask for? :D
So yay battery percentage! ;-)
(finger crossed for CM4?)
c.f. EOMA68
I'm curious about this part. Their Github only has their website, hardware design, firmware and drivers: https://github.com/cutiepi-io/
As a long-term Qt user, you can find my other tablet-related projects on Github, for example the browser https://github.com/penk/SlateKit/tree/master/Shell
But am I the only one who is confused why they created a main board instead of just using a Pi model B? Most of the things on their board (usb, hdmi, wifi, Bluetooth, card slot, etc) are already there in a Pi. Especially since the boards are about $90 each...
But it's not scalable, and I'm not particularly good at soldering. ;-)
The compute model is the right choice for an actual product (i.e. making more than one), but for someone trying to jam a pi into a thin space, removing the ports is almost as thin. Plus you don't also need a motherboard.
The compute module is also still waiting for it's BCM2711 refresh, another reason it's not the same thing. But when that does arrive, if it's just a case of swapping the modules that'll be a brilliant upgrade for this project.
Of course we made our first prototype with Pi3, and it ended up looking like this: https://i.imgur.com/gqUAdDa.jpg :P
Oh by the way we're not using HDMI display so it'll be cheaper (and thinner) too.
So either the photo is not genuine or the pictured device is using a Raspberry Pi 4 (possibly a pre-release Compute Module thereof).
More info regarding Pi3 arch https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=140572
I think I am looking for easy to follow instructions for dads
I've learned more and had much more fun making little toys, programming basic displays, getting sensor data, etc with arduino and other microcontroller development boards. There is too much already going on in a raspberry pi for it to really be a "blank canvas" for maker projects. Hence you see all of these projects where they are essentially repurposing the existing rpi, not creating their own thing with it. Its not really a "maker" project. Its more like building a computer.
Plus, you will find way more true maker projects targeted for kids for microcontroller development than you would for raspberry pi.
Plus, Arduino has a specialized c/c++ library for it which makes things just awesome for starting out. It's like writing python - stupid easy.
1) you have access to the Raspbian and Pi ecosystem 2) it has actual usable UI, commercial-grade I would say
The whole idea of this project is to help makers to be portable with their projects. The display is optional.
This is definitely not the case. There are almost no android tablets that people have even bothered figuring out how to boot normal linux on, and I'm not sure there are ANY that have complete driver support.
Other than this your best bet would probably be to try to find an x86 tablet from 5 years ago and even those are a huge pain to use linux on.
It's really a cool device. I mean if I can do whatever I want on a handheld device, I'd be ready to pay 150 euros for it. Android phones are useless if the OS is a walled garden.
I really like all of these independent tablet/laptop/phone projects! I'm just a little worried that people will pick them up thinking they'll be just like an Android/iOS tablet and end up blaming the company making it.
[1] https://www.pine64.org/pinetab/
[1] https://www.pine64.org/2019/08/05/august-update-london-meetu...
https://world.taobao.com/item/558792955821.htm
They started off using the compute module, but ended up switching to the Nvidia Jetson Nano. Both of these projects make me wish for a world where a standard pin-out in this SODIMM format arises and we could see some inter-operable competition like we have with PC desktop parts.
https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
http://rhombus-tech.net/
Count me in. I would replace my laptop with this.
Also, double-opt-in for e-mail should be the default now. This screams 'scam' to me.