>It’s an assurance that Facebook isn’t actually retaining data that it could use again someday to recognize your face.
Given fb's history of lying, it's only an assurance that they won't overtly use such data. No guarantee that they're not still storing it on a server somewhere, and good luck proving as much.
Also, what does this mean for people without accounts that are being tracked? I wonder if facial data is collected on them too, after being labeled by friends.
FB's entire business model is fundamentally in conflict with any semblance of privacy. Why anyone believes anything that comes out of Zuckerberg's mouth is beyond me. FB is built around exploitation of user ignorance, apathy, and unwarranted trust.
Make no mistake, no matter how much these dangerously charismatic CEOs speak about positive changes to society, modern large tech companies are 100% self serving and always engaged in carefully prepared corporate doublespeak. They don't give any kind of a shit about your privacy when it is directly tied to the bulk of their revenue. What motivation does fb actually have to delete facial recognition data like they claim, as opposed to just quietly storing it somewhere on the back end? There's no legal requirement and if they get caught, the only people who would care are the kind who by and large have already moved off FB. Meanwhile the upside is huge for future facial recognition applications - this is a massive goldmine of very sensitive personal data.
From stallman.org:
Facebook made deals for phone and computer manufacturers including Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, and Samsung to access data about its useds and their friends as well. These deals seem to still be operative. [1]
When Zuckerberg testified to Congress, he said Facebook had stopped doing this years ago [2]. Apparently he lied.
At Amazon new products have a press release written during the spec phase (to help frame the pitch internally); I presume, at this point, fb writes an apology during spec phase...
Undo options are user friendly! And what if you really actually want them to use your face data, but hit it by accident? Maybe it's best if they just ignore the request all together. That way you can both feel good about things, users think they got what they wanted, and Facebook actually gets what it wants. Everyone wins. Except the user, who loses.
Their definition of "delete" is to dissociate your identity from the data pieces. There's no true way to splice out a person from their database otherwise
Allowing regulators to look at systems, data and source code is the inevitable conclusion of this madness where software companies say one thing and do something completely different.
Is it even feasible to scour all their backups? And I don't mean the hot backups, I mean the annual data dumps stored on tapes in a data archive built in a cold war nuclear bunker somewhere in the Rockies.
Is it deleted from the models? Clearly they aren't doing that. Do they fine tune their models so they can no longer identify you from your photo? I'd also doubt that. More clarification on deletion is needed.
Probably not. Because I imagine they aren't retaining off the original data but rather doing an online method. This means the network retains information about those images.
Yeah, if it's already been shared with commercial partners, or especially, if it's already been shared with government agencies, the cat is out of the bag. Not really sure what can be done to regain control of that data?
>When you opt out of facial recognition on Facebook, the company will delete your template, meaning it will have no original reference point for your face and therefore cannot find your face at all.
The details are pretty sparse. It would be nice if they clarified how they manage black-listing your template ID somewhere but still disconnect it from your profile. If you opt-ed back in at some point, they need to know to remove you from that black-list, which might imply there's still some sort of connection from your profile to a template ID or maybe the generic template still exists but they're disallowed to associate it to a profile and it's in some shadow table?
Plus, just as another layer of "I don't trust this". I have to re-unsubscribe from AT&T's job search newsletter every few months because of what I assume is a new wave of recruitment emails being sent from an older mailing list. Doesn't matter how many times I unsubscribe, that backup will always have my information on it and that service only refers to that backup.
My only assumption is that Facebook is too big to properly manage that piece of specific knowledge and will delete it, but I'll still be there somewhere. Or I'll magically opt back in because of something like Messenger or whatever. Considering the news about Google circumventing their own GDPR restrictions, I just assume these companies aren't following through with any of their promises.
> I have to re-unsubscribe from AT&T's job search newsletter every few months because of what I assume is a new wave of recruitment emails being sent from an older mailing list. Doesn't matter how many times I unsubscribe, that backup will always have my information on it and that service only refers to that backup.
That sounds like a violation of the CAN-SPAM act, and you could consider suing them.
Yes, but the hassle of deleting their email once every few months isn't enough to make suing them worth it. Plus, that doesn't really resolve the issue that requesting to be take off things doesn't actually remove me (the original concern of these comments)
This is actually an exception that GDPR makes for storing data - companies can keep around some sort of record to "tombstone" users.
Sort of. GDPR is so woefully under-specified in some places, and general in others, it's really entirely up to the will of the regulators what would count as a violation.
I shouldn’t have to tell Facebook to delete something it should never have had to begin with. How are we going to force Facebook to stop doing terrible things forever?
The article makes it sound like an ominous surveillance feature with not justifiable product reasons, so I should point out that this powers beneficial features like face recognition for image accessibility. Thanks to face recognition, blind people can know who's in a photo.
That there exists useful product reasons is beside the point. The point is that people who don't want their data to be involved should not have their data be involved.
Yes, it's good that you can opt out now. But I think articles like this are doing a disservice by glossing over the negative effects of opting out.
People choosing to remove their data from this should be aware that if they have visually impaired friends on facebook (or even friends of friends, depending on sharing settings) you will be degrading accessibility features that they probably use.
And it's great to let people make their own choice about whether they're OK with Facebook having face recognition of them, but encouraging people to disable it without at least mentioning that image tags are an accessibility feature is a dick move.
It's framed as just "this will remove features that you might not care about," but blind people need the image tags more than you do.
Seconded, I'm in the same boat. I realize attempting to wipe my data from all the various sources it may be in across the web is futile but I'd still like to try.
Until Facebook states they won't store/analyze faces they can't recognize then everyone who has never had an account or deleted their account are at a disadvantage.
I've always wondered if COPPA could be used against Facebook with regard to this. Theoretical situation: I'm a parent and I find an image of my child (under 13 years of age). Facebook never notified me of they were storing my child's image. Facebook would argue they didn't know. But Facebook already scanned the image and likely guessed the child's age - and knew they were under 13. In that situation Facebook should be required to remove the image based on the fact they cannot notify the guardian. I realize this would have severe repercussions to their operational model, but that's also the point. Or... If I find an image Facebook didn't notify me about - then I'll take that $42,000 per image.
FB is known to build profiles of pretty much everyone it encounters, even vicariously, ostensibly to be able to populate a new account with engaging info once they actually join.
Can I tell them to delete the records of my face that they keep even though I don't have an account?
And, of course, in all instances. will they actually expunge it from all locations in their data-universe?
Sorry, but... So I don't have to go hunting for it (and get stuck in facebook land reading updates!) can some one provide a link to the place where this setting resides? Thank you!
Yes please. I hate articles like this that tell you what Facebook will now allow you to do... but don't give you the actual link where you could do it yourself _right now_. Makes me think these articles are actually Facebook PR which wants to control the narrative on the feature and deliberately not make it easy to find where to do it.
Interestingly, I just went into my account and I was already opted-out. Is this the case for everybody? If so, that's a very surprising move coming from FB.
Surely after their AI neural net thingamybob has absorbed your face, FB doesn't care about deleting your face, as their model has already benefited from it?
How does a person without a facebook account accomplish this though? Even without an account it’s likely that fb has several dozens of photos of me via other people’s posts.
Despite the headline I don’t see anything about deleting data. Just that it won’t try to recognize you.
That being said, I went on my profile to check and it was already set to No (don’t do facial recognition). Is this the default? Or is this actually an old thing that I disabled a long time ago.
I checked it in the Android app, and I was able to find it and it was already deactivated. I remember doing this a while ago. But it was burried in Facebooks settings. Here is how you can do it on Android.
1. Click on the menu icon (three horizontal lines) in the top toolbar.
2. Scroll down, expand "Settings & Privacy" if not expanded, and click "Settings". Don't fall for those privacy shortcuts. Facebook will hide a lot of settings from you.
3. Scroll down and you should see the " Face Recognition" entry in the Privacy category.
Hope this helps.
PS: I personally find it lame, that Facebook needs to make it as much confusing as possible to find those settings.
And they totally will from most of their archives wink wink. Who is really capable of verifying this actually happens that doesn't also have a vested interest in Facebook?
I can't find the setting to disable this. The EFF says they "have questions" about how Facebook is implementing this.
"Throughout Facebook’s deliberately vague announcement, it takes great pains to note that the change applies only to new Facebook users and people who currently have the “tag suggestions” setting. However, Facebook migrated many, if not most, existing users from “tag suggestions” to “face recognition” in December 2017 (see here for Facebook’s explanation of the difference between tag suggestions and face recognition). That means this safeguard does not apply to the billions of current Facebook users who have already been moved."
If that URL doesn't work I went to Settings and there's a tab for "Facial Recognition" on the left rail. Between "Language and Regions" and "Notifications"
Just to confirm my experience: when I click on that link, I see "General Account Settings" (like name, username, contact... Everything that's available from the first left-hand menu choice.) And no where in that left-hand menu is there any choice about Face Recognition.
I do have a left-hand menu choice about "Timeline and Tagging" -- but there's still nothing there about face recognition.
I'd guess that it's a feature that's being gradually rolled out to all accounts.
I originally posted it because I was frustrated that I didn't see a link to the setting in the article, but I guess I understand why there was no link.
My left-hand menu looks exactly like yours -- but without the "Face Recognition" choice. (After "Language and Region" my next choice is "Notifications", with nothing in between.)
I don't know if this is supposed to be new, I found it and it was already set to "no". I think I turned it off on one of my privacy kicks a year or two ago, not sure exactly.
This is great for the new users it appears to apply to. But what about people like me? I haven't had a Facebook account in seven years. Yet, I'm not delusional to believe they don't still have my data (yes, I "deleted" it) along with my picture. So every time my wife posts a picture with me in it to Facebook, they know where I am.
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[ 5.1 ms ] story [ 170 ms ] threadGiven fb's history of lying, it's only an assurance that they won't overtly use such data. No guarantee that they're not still storing it on a server somewhere, and good luck proving as much.
Also, what does this mean for people without accounts that are being tracked? I wonder if facial data is collected on them too, after being labeled by friends.
They've surely done many things you don't like, but they've not lied about doing those things.
techcrunch.com/2018/06/27/study-calls-out-dark-patterns-in-facebook-and-google-that-push-users-towards-less-privacy/
www.cnet.com/google-amp/news/facebook-accused-of-misleading-advertisers-then-trying-to-hide-it/
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/20/facebook-violating-privacy-mark-zuckerberg
FB's entire business model is fundamentally in conflict with any semblance of privacy. Why anyone believes anything that comes out of Zuckerberg's mouth is beyond me. FB is built around exploitation of user ignorance, apathy, and unwarranted trust.
Make no mistake, no matter how much these dangerously charismatic CEOs speak about positive changes to society, modern large tech companies are 100% self serving and always engaged in carefully prepared corporate doublespeak. They don't give any kind of a shit about your privacy when it is directly tied to the bulk of their revenue. What motivation does fb actually have to delete facial recognition data like they claim, as opposed to just quietly storing it somewhere on the back end? There's no legal requirement and if they get caught, the only people who would care are the kind who by and large have already moved off FB. Meanwhile the upside is huge for future facial recognition applications - this is a massive goldmine of very sensitive personal data.
When Zuckerberg testified to Congress, he said Facebook had stopped doing this years ago [2]. Apparently he lied.
1: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/06/03/technology/fa...
2: https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/06/04/sure-looks-zuck...
Trusting Facebook... rather jump down a well.
Just so they can be sure not to re-add it later.
Yeah. That's it! And they're sticking with that story.
But, hey, at least FB will "delete" it!
So, yeah, I guess there's that? :(
The details are pretty sparse. It would be nice if they clarified how they manage black-listing your template ID somewhere but still disconnect it from your profile. If you opt-ed back in at some point, they need to know to remove you from that black-list, which might imply there's still some sort of connection from your profile to a template ID or maybe the generic template still exists but they're disallowed to associate it to a profile and it's in some shadow table?
My only assumption is that Facebook is too big to properly manage that piece of specific knowledge and will delete it, but I'll still be there somewhere. Or I'll magically opt back in because of something like Messenger or whatever. Considering the news about Google circumventing their own GDPR restrictions, I just assume these companies aren't following through with any of their promises.
That sounds like a violation of the CAN-SPAM act, and you could consider suing them.
Sort of. GDPR is so woefully under-specified in some places, and general in others, it's really entirely up to the will of the regulators what would count as a violation.
So now I register a new fb profile, using a picture of you, opting in to facial recognition. Now what?
They can't match the picture against your profile, because they've deleted the template?
https://www.facebook.com/accessibility/videos/new-face-face-...
Remove yourself if you want to, but people should be aware there's also a useful side of this.
People choosing to remove their data from this should be aware that if they have visually impaired friends on facebook (or even friends of friends, depending on sharing settings) you will be degrading accessibility features that they probably use.
And it's great to let people make their own choice about whether they're OK with Facebook having face recognition of them, but encouraging people to disable it without at least mentioning that image tags are an accessibility feature is a dick move.
It's framed as just "this will remove features that you might not care about," but blind people need the image tags more than you do.
I've always wondered if COPPA could be used against Facebook with regard to this. Theoretical situation: I'm a parent and I find an image of my child (under 13 years of age). Facebook never notified me of they were storing my child's image. Facebook would argue they didn't know. But Facebook already scanned the image and likely guessed the child's age - and knew they were under 13. In that situation Facebook should be required to remove the image based on the fact they cannot notify the guardian. I realize this would have severe repercussions to their operational model, but that's also the point. Or... If I find an image Facebook didn't notify me about - then I'll take that $42,000 per image.
Seems fair.
Can I tell them to delete the records of my face that they keep even though I don't have an account?
And, of course, in all instances. will they actually expunge it from all locations in their data-universe?
Especially since I have never had and never will have a FB account.
PS don't tell me they don't have records of my face
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-facial-recognition-...
That being said, I went on my profile to check and it was already set to No (don’t do facial recognition). Is this the default? Or is this actually an old thing that I disabled a long time ago.
[1] https://www.facebook.com/help/www/187272841323203
Click the down arrow at the top right, then Settings. There _should_ be a "Face Recognition" item in the left but not for me.
This is so frustrating and part of me thinks they just disable this for a bit so 90% of people forget.
[1] https://www.facebook.com/help/187272841323203
1. Click on the menu icon (three horizontal lines) in the top toolbar. 2. Scroll down, expand "Settings & Privacy" if not expanded, and click "Settings". Don't fall for those privacy shortcuts. Facebook will hide a lot of settings from you. 3. Scroll down and you should see the " Face Recognition" entry in the Privacy category.
Hope this helps.
PS: I personally find it lame, that Facebook needs to make it as much confusing as possible to find those settings.
"Throughout Facebook’s deliberately vague announcement, it takes great pains to note that the change applies only to new Facebook users and people who currently have the “tag suggestions” setting. However, Facebook migrated many, if not most, existing users from “tag suggestions” to “face recognition” in December 2017 (see here for Facebook’s explanation of the difference between tag suggestions and face recognition). That means this safeguard does not apply to the billions of current Facebook users who have already been moved."
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/09/facebook-changing-its-...
If that URL doesn't work I went to Settings and there's a tab for "Facial Recognition" on the left rail. Between "Language and Regions" and "Notifications"
Just to confirm my experience: when I click on that link, I see "General Account Settings" (like name, username, contact... Everything that's available from the first left-hand menu choice.) And no where in that left-hand menu is there any choice about Face Recognition.
I do have a left-hand menu choice about "Timeline and Tagging" -- but there's still nothing there about face recognition.
I'd guess that it's a feature that's being gradually rolled out to all accounts.
I originally posted it because I was frustrated that I didn't see a link to the setting in the article, but I guess I understand why there was no link.
Thanks for posting the screenshot.
"These changes will be effective globally starting today."
Can't figure out why I'm not seeing them.