It's pretty clear who will win this one. Google. Even though the word isn't a pejorative in England, it will disappear because online it's status in the US is what matters.
The explanation that male homosexuals were called faggots because they were burned at the stake as punishment is an etymological urban legend. Burning sometimes was a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorrah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed. Use of faggot in connection with public executions had long been obscure English historical trivia by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (in common with the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use early 20c., by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others.
The word is a perjorative for homosexual across the UK and in the private boys schools since the 1700's, fagging has been the term used to describe the practice of senior pupils enslaving younger ones, who are then known as fags.
The perjorative is the most common use, however it also describes a food and small bits of firewood. People generally seem to work out the meaning from the context relatively easily, homonyms being a thing.
Fags and Fagging are a different root to Faggot, IMHO, which definitely seems more American.
I went to a minor public school and though fagging had been abolished many years prior, the first year of the senior school (age... 12/13ish) were still informally known as the fags. It wasn't particularly a homophobic slur, IIRC, though playground homophobia was rife back then (around 1990) so who knows really.
I do know I see "Faggot" used more for the food than as a slur these days, but then I don't hang around the *chans...
I hear 'faggot' being used more often as a slur than as the food, with the term 'fag' used pretty much synonymously.
Then again, I'm a man who sleeps with other men, went to a crumbling concrete block of a state school and often can be found working in factory environments and hanging around with bikers.
I guess it varies greatly according to one's milieu.
It's pretty understandable that they'd get flagged for the word as a result of oversimplified heuristics. However, it should also be expected that there'd be an appeals process for (inevitable) mistakes like this. But of course Google declines to put any effort into that sort of thing, so here we are.
From the article it doesn't look like an appeal was even attempted, though. In fact, it doesn't even look like the journalist herself tried to get a statement from Google before publishing. Also, it's worth pointing out that the headline is wrong. The cafe wasn't "banned", Google rejected an ad purchase.
I think it's very reasonable to ding Google on bad customer service where they won't provide it. But you still need to ask for that service first.
More likely you were downvoted both there and here for complaining about downvoting. If you post on HN, you will occasionally get downvoted for reasons you don't understand. Don't complain and don't try to tell people why you were getting downvoted. The former just annoys everyone, and the later is often comically incorrect in misunderstanding and leads to more aggressive downvoting.
The irony of banning a UK ad because a word is offensive in the US, while letting other ads for the same place which name includes a word offensive in the UK (but not the US), is delicious.
In the UK, 'fanny' is pretty much the least offensive term for female genitals available, other than vagina, however vagina is considered a bit clinical. A friend of mine uses the term 'foo-foo' instead, which I find hysterically funny.
Whatever is posted online, you can find someone who is offended by it.
Americans need to stop being afraid of words. I am actually worried this might seep into my culture at some point.
It's fine to hold politicians and such to higher standards, expecting them to choose their words carefully. That's why it's called political correctness.
But going around trying to police people's speech in everyday colloquial language, such as Google is doing here, is a road that will lead to disaster in many ways.
> Americans need to stop being afraid of words. I am actually worried this might seep into my culture at some point.
I'm not sure which culture is yours, but the British are way ahead on being afraid of words. Posting rap lyrics or teaching a pug tricks has got people court dates.
Words have meaning, in specifics, historical meaning. Calling someone a "dolt" doesn't have near the impact as calling someone "f" comes with it the decades of violence associated with the word.
Google algorithms could use some improvement... Searching for "faggots and peas" in Google correctly identifies the dish. Even the urban dictionary (linked by Google) describes the dish first. Looks like they went with a simple word list rather than use their own engine.
Or maybe Google finds the dish itself offensive, a recurring theme with British cuisine :)
In this case Faggots are basically big meatballs made from the cheaper cuts of meat as well as some liver. I guess think meatloaf, but in ball form. Same sort economic niche, not a poverty food but something for people on a budget.
Usually served with peas and thick, brown onion gravy. Can be a pretty good, hearty meal. It's years since I've had it though, as it's not really from my region.
I wonder how it compares to Shanghainese lion's head meatballs. I recently had those and they were very different from typical American meatballs or meatloaf. The meat was much more coarsely cut up, for one thing.
I am reminded of the conference NIPS being forced to re-brand because the word “nips” is offensive apparently. It’s not been used as a racial pejorative since the 1940s. A nip is a synonym for a wee dram, over here, if it means anything at all. Or an abbreviation of catnip perhaps.
Scraping the very bottom of the outrage barrel. Oops I said bottom!
It worked though, the NIPS organisers rolled over straight away. Just what you want in people who might need to make an ethical stand over abuse of their work.
Nips means something similar here, it’s our only word for those small single-serving prepackaged shots of liquor. And they’re the first thing I think of when I hear “nips” without context. You can use it to mean a poured drink too, but it’s only common with older people here.
The renaming of NIPS was just some uptight busybodies that got too much attention.
This seems odd to me. With products such as Translate Google is investing a lot of time and money into understanding context in language. (I imagine it's helpful for search as well.) It seems inconceivable that their "context engine" could misunderstand "faggots and peas" considering a Google search for that gives many valid results, and it seems unlikely that they wouldn't apply such context understanding across their product line.
Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting it's not true, I'm just puzzled as to how it could happen.
Even in a 200 person company there are often product inconsistencies. Think about how you'd build this thing in a minimal way. You wouldn't "integrate with the context-aware Translate or Search API", you'd "just build a blacklist and improve it if necessary". It's not at all unbelievable.
I've been to Fanny's and ordered this dish. It was nothing special, and definitely not ad worthy, unless some marketing company is literally making ads out of every single thing on the menu.
Edit: Apparently my pallet is wrong. The Faggots received several positive mentions on the Trip Adviser Page, so it may make sense to promote that as a featured item.
This reads like the kind of anti-European 'outrage' the Daily Mail has been spouting for the last 30 years or so. I suppose they have to find a new target now. Google is the new EU?
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 126 ms ] threadQuoting etymonline.com here,
The explanation that male homosexuals were called faggots because they were burned at the stake as punishment is an etymological urban legend. Burning sometimes was a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorrah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed. Use of faggot in connection with public executions had long been obscure English historical trivia by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (in common with the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use early 20c., by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/faggot#etymonline_v_1077
The perjorative is the most common use, however it also describes a food and small bits of firewood. People generally seem to work out the meaning from the context relatively easily, homonyms being a thing.
To illustrate, here is a picture of a man with a giant cock - http://cdn.ecommercedns.uk/files/5/227995/1/5014991/kmk023-h...
I went to a minor public school and though fagging had been abolished many years prior, the first year of the senior school (age... 12/13ish) were still informally known as the fags. It wasn't particularly a homophobic slur, IIRC, though playground homophobia was rife back then (around 1990) so who knows really.
I do know I see "Faggot" used more for the food than as a slur these days, but then I don't hang around the *chans...
Why the verb "to fag" means what it does seems to be an open question, and doesn't seem to be related to the pile-of-sticks root.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/fag?ref=etymonline_crossrefe...
Then again, I'm a man who sleeps with other men, went to a crumbling concrete block of a state school and often can be found working in factory environments and hanging around with bikers.
I guess it varies greatly according to one's milieu.
I think it's very reasonable to ding Google on bad customer service where they won't provide it. But you still need to ask for that service first.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
The internet is American, apparently.
("I could murder a fag" === "I really want to smoke a cigarette")
In the UK, 'fanny' is pretty much the least offensive term for female genitals available, other than vagina, however vagina is considered a bit clinical. A friend of mine uses the term 'foo-foo' instead, which I find hysterically funny.
Are they French by any chance? The French have the word foufoune. (pronounced foo-foon)
Whatever is posted online, you can find someone who is offended by it.
Americans need to stop being afraid of words. I am actually worried this might seep into my culture at some point.
It's fine to hold politicians and such to higher standards, expecting them to choose their words carefully. That's why it's called political correctness.
But going around trying to police people's speech in everyday colloquial language, such as Google is doing here, is a road that will lead to disaster in many ways.
Steve Hughes did a pretty famous 'rant' on the subject: https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs?t=202
I'm not sure which culture is yours, but the British are way ahead on being afraid of words. Posting rap lyrics or teaching a pug tricks has got people court dates.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-43816921
https://www.newsweek.com/youtuber-count-dankula-avoids-jail-...
the interesting case is the rap lyrics, because those are published across the internet, media, TV, cd sleeves with lyrics in etc.
Why aren't they in the prosecutions line of sight?
I may complain about a rappers use of offensive language to my local police station to see if i can get kanye in court
Or maybe Google finds the dish itself offensive, a recurring theme with British cuisine :)
In this case Faggots are basically big meatballs made from the cheaper cuts of meat as well as some liver. I guess think meatloaf, but in ball form. Same sort economic niche, not a poverty food but something for people on a budget.
Usually served with peas and thick, brown onion gravy. Can be a pretty good, hearty meal. It's years since I've had it though, as it's not really from my region.
I vouched for it, but I have no idea if my vouches count for anything.
You can tell from the downvotes. People seem suspiciously intent on presenting this as a legitimate source.
https://metro.co.uk/2013/11/06/faggots-firm-fights-for-its-f...
It worked though, the NIPS organisers rolled over straight away. Just what you want in people who might need to make an ethical stand over abuse of their work.
The renaming of NIPS was just some uptight busybodies that got too much attention.
Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting it's not true, I'm just puzzled as to how it could happen.
OK, but probably not. (Is "faggot" not actually a pejorative for gay in the UK?) But the question should at least be entertained.
I've been to Fanny's and ordered this dish. It was nothing special, and definitely not ad worthy, unless some marketing company is literally making ads out of every single thing on the menu.
Edit: Apparently my pallet is wrong. The Faggots received several positive mentions on the Trip Adviser Page, so it may make sense to promote that as a featured item.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g186463-d33610...