If you think of it, there should be quite a few people alive today who had a grandfather that could've been a schoolmate of Napoleon Bonaparte (who was born in 1769). If you grandfather fathered a child at 80 (which is entirely impossible), and your father got you when he was 80 too, and if you are 90 in 2019, then your grandfather was born in 1769.
What I find funny about Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon is that he is married to Kyra Sedgwick, who is the half-sister of jazz guitarist Mike Stern. Mike Stern played with Miles Davis and Miles Davis is basically the Paul Erdos or Kevin Bacon of jazz.
I've heard that Kevin Bacon isn't actually the Kevin Bacon of the Kevin Bacon game; some researchers a few years back crunched the numbers and determined that the most-connected actor was actually Rod Steiger (having starred in a wide range of highbrow and lowbrow movies over a very long career).
Maybe somebody else has since overtaken Steiger, though. Maybe even Kevin Bacon himself!
Edit to add: ha, I see there's a calculation at The Oracle of Bacon: http://oracleofbacon.org/center_list.php Not sure how frequently this is updated, but the top few names definitely sound plausible.
If you find it funny that Kevin Bacon is within 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon of someone else, you're kind of misunderstanding the idea of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.
Challenge: Find the link between Kevin Bacon and President Tyler
On a podcast I listened to recently, Kevin Bacon said he didn't really like the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon because he felt it was fun of him at his expense.
No, but there are like 7 billion people, and until very recently polygyny was widespread around the globe. A male usually needs to be wealthy to have multiple wives, but those are precisely the sorts of males that are likely to have above average lifespans. And, of course, serial monogamy has similar causes and effects.
My spouse had two maternal grandmothers. When the elder one could no longer have children (or perhaps didn't wish to have any more), not yet having borne a son, she arranged for a second wife. My spouse's grandfather was in his 70s when his last child, a son, was a born. And this man was simply a middle-class shopkeeper.[1]
People don't talk much about polygyny because it's awkward in modern culture, even in places like Africa and Asia where it's often only one generation removed, if that.
[1] AFAIU, polygyny is still legal in that country, Malaysia, though now permitted of Muslims only. Whereas previously polygyny was practiced by Muslims, Chinese, possibly Indians (not sure), and presumably the indigenous population as well.
I'm 35, and my grandmother was born in 1912. She had my mom, the youngest of 5, when she was 45.
She herself (my grandmother) was the youngest of 13 surviving children. Her father (my great grandfather) was born in 1861, and her mother was born in 1868. He died in 1937 (20 years before my mother was born), and she in 1953, the same year Queen Elizabeth II was crowned queen of England, and 30 years before I was born.
My wife's great grandmother died when she was a junior in high school.
I agree, the results of having children later in life can be quite amazing, and I think there is a cultural impact as well. I would call myself and my family a little old fashioned and definitely thrifty due to having a grandmother who lived through the great depression.
Just thought I'd try and blow your mind a little more.
My step-brother was a grandfather at 35, and in all likelihood he'll be a great-grandfather by 60. It's something of an historical aberration that most people today only have children within a very small window of time.
Interestingly, a clear, geographically distinct trend developed in Western Europe several hundred years ago, long before the industrial revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
Tyler's son was born in 1853, and his son in 1928. Tyler had the son in his sixties, and his son had his in his seventies. Male fertility lasts a bit longer than female.
That trait is common, possibly ubiquitous. I think that wealth may be the more important discriminator here. Without it, a man might find it difficult to attract a woman half his age late in life.
Maybe statistically, but there was a case here in the uk a few years ago. An old fellow in his 70s at a nursing home got one of the care assistants, aged under 20 IIRC, pregnant in a consensual relationship.
> "It was not especially uncommon for young women in Arkansas to marry Confederate pensioners; in 1937 the state passed a law stating that women who married Civil War veterans would not be eligible for a widow's pension. The law was later changed in 1939 to state that widows born after 1870 were not eligible for pensions."
> On December 10, 1927, the then-21-year-old Stewart married the 81-year-old Martin, primarily to get help raising her son and because his $50 per month Confederate pension check guaranteed her a degree of financial security.
I think what's crazier about this is that it's entirely possible then that there are two people today such that one man's father was the other man's father's slave.
A man in his 70s has a routine check up, and then brags to his doctor: "I'm really fit for my age. As a matter of fact, my 25 years old wife is expecting a baby".
The doctor then replies with a story: "A man was an avid hunter, but also a bit light-headed. So one day he gets up in the morning and goes hunting, but he mistakenly takes an umbrella instead of his shotgun. After a while he encouters a bear. He pulls out the umbrella, aims, pulls the trigger. The shot is heard, and the bear drops dead"
"That's impossible!" exclaims the man, "someone else had to make that shot"
"And that's exactly my point.", smiles the doctor.
I met a guy today I knew years ago, when he was 23,
And he was married to a widow who was as pretty as could be.
Now this widow had a grown-up daughter who had beautiful hair of red,
And this guy's father fell in love with her and soon the two were wed.
Now this made the guy's dad his son-in-law and changed his very life
For his daughter was his mother because she was his father's wife.
Now to complicate the matter even though it brought him joy,
He soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy.
Now his little baby then became a brother-in-law to his dad,
And so became his uncle and though that made him very sad,
For if the baby was his uncle then that also made him brother,
Of the widow's grown-up daughter who was of course his step-mother.
Now his father's wife had a son who kept them on the run,
So he became his grandchild for he was his daughter's son.
His wife is now his mother's mother and of course that makes him blue
Because although she's his wife she's his grandmother too!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_My_Own_Grandpa - " a novelty song written by Dwight Latham and Moe Jaffe, performed by Lonzo and Oscar in 1947 ... Willie Nelson performed the song on his 2001 album The Rainbow Connection"
I know of it because "The song is referred to in Robert Heinlein's 1959 time travel paradox short story "—All You Zombies—"."
Also, "According to a 2007 article, the song was inspired by an anecdote that has been published periodically by newspapers for well over 150 years".
This is one of my favorite pieces of historical trivia. To put it into perspective: the grandsons alive today can say "My grandfather's president was George Washington".
52 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 105 ms ] thread[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon
Maybe somebody else has since overtaken Steiger, though. Maybe even Kevin Bacon himself!
Edit to add: ha, I see there's a calculation at The Oracle of Bacon: http://oracleofbacon.org/center_list.php Not sure how frequently this is updated, but the top few names definitely sound plausible.
I submit Danny Trejo as a candidate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Trejo_filmography
Challenge: Find the link between Kevin Bacon and President Tyler
isn't?
> grandfather fathered a child at 80... , and your father got you when he was 80 too, and if you are 90
I don't think these things are as common as you think they are.
My spouse had two maternal grandmothers. When the elder one could no longer have children (or perhaps didn't wish to have any more), not yet having borne a son, she arranged for a second wife. My spouse's grandfather was in his 70s when his last child, a son, was a born. And this man was simply a middle-class shopkeeper.[1]
People don't talk much about polygyny because it's awkward in modern culture, even in places like Africa and Asia where it's often only one generation removed, if that.
[1] AFAIU, polygyny is still legal in that country, Malaysia, though now permitted of Muslims only. Whereas previously polygyny was practiced by Muslims, Chinese, possibly Indians (not sure), and presumably the indigenous population as well.
She herself (my grandmother) was the youngest of 13 surviving children. Her father (my great grandfather) was born in 1861, and her mother was born in 1868. He died in 1937 (20 years before my mother was born), and she in 1953, the same year Queen Elizabeth II was crowned queen of England, and 30 years before I was born.
My wife's great grandmother died when she was a junior in high school.
I agree, the results of having children later in life can be quite amazing, and I think there is a cultural impact as well. I would call myself and my family a little old fashioned and definitely thrifty due to having a grandmother who lived through the great depression.
Just thought I'd try and blow your mind a little more.
Meanwhile, my wife's grandmother was born in the 1940s, and her great-grandmother was alive until just a few years back.
Interestingly, a clear, geographically distinct trend developed in Western Europe several hundred years ago, long before the industrial revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajnal_line
A VPN will fix it.
https://polsy.org.uk/stuff/ytrestrict.cgi?ytid=https%3A%2F%2...
Maudie Hopkins died in 2008, perhaps the last living widow of a Civil War veteran - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maudie_Hopkins
> "It was not especially uncommon for young women in Arkansas to marry Confederate pensioners; in 1937 the state passed a law stating that women who married Civil War veterans would not be eligible for a widow's pension. The law was later changed in 1939 to state that widows born after 1870 were not eligible for pensions."
Or Alberta Martin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Martin
> On December 10, 1927, the then-21-year-old Stewart married the 81-year-old Martin, primarily to get help raising her son and because his $50 per month Confederate pension check guaranteed her a degree of financial security.
The doctor then replies with a story: "A man was an avid hunter, but also a bit light-headed. So one day he gets up in the morning and goes hunting, but he mistakenly takes an umbrella instead of his shotgun. After a while he encouters a bear. He pulls out the umbrella, aims, pulls the trigger. The shot is heard, and the bear drops dead"
"That's impossible!" exclaims the man, "someone else had to make that shot"
"And that's exactly my point.", smiles the doctor.
Now his little baby then became a brother-in-law to his dad, And so became his uncle and though that made him very sad, For if the baby was his uncle then that also made him brother, Of the widow's grown-up daughter who was of course his step-mother.
Now his father's wife had a son who kept them on the run, So he became his grandchild for he was his daughter's son. His wife is now his mother's mother and of course that makes him blue Because although she's his wife she's his grandmother too!
1: https://gist.github.com/jeremyaboyd/a7be325127a507a4b241f980...
Legend:
D=dad, S=friend, W=widow, d=duaghter of W, s=son of S+W, g=son of d+D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkX7IW7jpMw
It's entertaining to listen to.
I know of it because "The song is referred to in Robert Heinlein's 1959 time travel paradox short story "—All You Zombies—"."
Also, "According to a 2007 article, the song was inspired by an anecdote that has been published periodically by newspapers for well over 150 years".
Lots of people walking around who could have known a Civil war veteran firsthand.