Yup, hating China is cool these days... people that have never been there nor understand the language or the culture are the ones that share all of this non-sense.
Since when is criticizing a national government or it's policies == hating an entire country? Not to mention the author was born and raised in China... I would also be careful in raising the assumption that most people reading FP (or for that matter HN) have never been to or lived in China.
There is plenty of legitimate criticism to be made of the resurgence of Chinese nationalism - just as there is for American and Russian nationalism.
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
― Arthur Schopenhauer
And, we criticize American and Russian nationalism here. Why can't we criticize Chinese nationalism?
(And, yes, there is danger of painting with too broad a brush, no matter which nation's nationalism we are criticizing. Not everyone there is a nationalist, for any value of "there".)
There are of course fools in China just like everywhere else in the world, they don't represent us all，however the articles does not agree with it or should I say the author is one of the fools? It is full of hate with some fake facts. I am not denying nationalism is a bad thing for the people, but I agree it is a good temporary strategy to rule fools especially in country like China. Open some books about Chinese histories and show some respect is all I hope to get.
I was about to say something back and just realize it would be against what I really wanted at first place, so I am going to just ignore all this from now on. I love HN and I still want be here in peace.
Why would comment you'd leave break the peace you have here at HN? Are you not confident you could write something eloquently without letting anger take you over?
Propaganda, misinformation campaigns is all about indoctrination - along with censorship and other hate-filled practices, is the process of preventing people developing critical thinking on their own - so they can rationally, logically, and without emotional attacks, describe their argument or counterarguments. It takes practice, and it takes developing emotional regulation - it’s a lot of constant work especially when you’re developing critical thinking, finding appropriate language to use, for specific arguments for the first time; even as a native English speaker, I’ll find fairly often words I don’t use often pop into my head, and I’ll be sure to lookup dictionary definitions to make sure the word’s meaning adequately fits what I’m meaning to say.
That the Chinese government has built-in this hate, reactions such as “betraying China” by being a “race traitor” is clearly priming the youth to be that as how Nazi Germany youth were indoctrinated into the SS. And it seems like we’re getting the first real taste of this bad behaviour in Hong Kong - Hong Kongers who’ve had freedom to understand this for themselves, and why their protests are so strong. Is the rest of the world going to allow China to continue to practice and evolve this behaviour without strong economic punishment as soon as possible? I’m afraid democracy has been too unstable for too long, democratic societies weakened by long-term regulatory capture, not taking care of everyone adequately - not allowing for us to be as strong as we could be, should be, need to be to quickly mobilize against what’s obvious behaviour to anyone with a more open mind, a more open heart, to see the patterns that are on the path of evil.
And it’s easy to check for yourself, if you live in China, to find out how “free” you really are: are you willing to speak about Tiananmen Square Massacre online, are you willing talk in public about it - to ask other people what they have heard about it or if they know about it? This single reference point of suppression of violence in relatively recent history is a simple control mechanism to see who “falls in line” or who “falls out of line” with the propaganda - of those who want full control over discourse and over you, until they have a reason to come for you or your family members:
These “re-education camps” are considered concentration camps by the rest of the world, with horrific stories and international law violations - https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-went-to-china-to-debu... - and other stories of women being sterilized for ethnic “cleansing,” stories of organ harvesting from people here; all of which are only the stories that are getting out from these highly controlled and monitored environments. And then with the Hong Kong protests - there seems to be a suspiciously high amount of “suicides by fall” happening, or rather recorded as such by police - a story that is developing, however because it’s drawn media attention - if that was a tactic of “suiciding protestors” was being used then they’ll realize they can no longer use it for the attention it’s drawn.
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.“
There must be a better word for this than 'nationalism'. After all, it was nationalism that drove my own country to fight for its independence, and establish a democratic government.
My Chinese SO has been called a "race traitor" by quite a few younger Chinese (of both genders) people who come to the UK to study.
One of her friends married an English man, her parents excommunicated her, saying that she had "betrayed China".
I have heard of Chinese students in the UK unironically comparing black students to monkeys and questioning how they got in (since monkeys are stupid).
Even ethno-nationalism isn't quite right. After all, my country split off along ethnic and linguistic lines, based on explicit justifications that the land belongs to our 'kin'. But all without any appeals to supremacy, national or ethnic (at least, such appeals didn't have much traction), and other ethnic groups living here were granted citizenship just like everyone else, and even special representation by guaranteed seats for minority groups in parliament.
What you're describing could maybe be called ethnic hate/supremacism?
The China defenders can't seem to decide whether to argue that no, the Chinese are not extreme nationalists, or that they are and this is perfectly right.
17 comments
[ 42.3 ms ] story [ 898 ms ] threadEdit: typo
“Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts as a last resource pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and happy to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.” ― Arthur Schopenhauer
(And, yes, there is danger of painting with too broad a brush, no matter which nation's nationalism we are criticizing. Not everyone there is a nationalist, for any value of "there".)
Such as?
> I say the author is one of the fools
Ad hominem
> Open some books about Chinese histories and show some respect is all I hope to get
Please enlighten us with your knowledge
Overall, your comment is low effort
Propaganda, misinformation campaigns is all about indoctrination - along with censorship and other hate-filled practices, is the process of preventing people developing critical thinking on their own - so they can rationally, logically, and without emotional attacks, describe their argument or counterarguments. It takes practice, and it takes developing emotional regulation - it’s a lot of constant work especially when you’re developing critical thinking, finding appropriate language to use, for specific arguments for the first time; even as a native English speaker, I’ll find fairly often words I don’t use often pop into my head, and I’ll be sure to lookup dictionary definitions to make sure the word’s meaning adequately fits what I’m meaning to say.
That the Chinese government has built-in this hate, reactions such as “betraying China” by being a “race traitor” is clearly priming the youth to be that as how Nazi Germany youth were indoctrinated into the SS. And it seems like we’re getting the first real taste of this bad behaviour in Hong Kong - Hong Kongers who’ve had freedom to understand this for themselves, and why their protests are so strong. Is the rest of the world going to allow China to continue to practice and evolve this behaviour without strong economic punishment as soon as possible? I’m afraid democracy has been too unstable for too long, democratic societies weakened by long-term regulatory capture, not taking care of everyone adequately - not allowing for us to be as strong as we could be, should be, need to be to quickly mobilize against what’s obvious behaviour to anyone with a more open mind, a more open heart, to see the patterns that are on the path of evil.
And it’s easy to check for yourself, if you live in China, to find out how “free” you really are: are you willing to speak about Tiananmen Square Massacre online, are you willing talk in public about it - to ask other people what they have heard about it or if they know about it? This single reference point of suppression of violence in relatively recent history is a simple control mechanism to see who “falls in line” or who “falls out of line” with the propaganda - of those who want full control over discourse and over you, until they have a reason to come for you or your family members:
These “re-education camps” are considered concentration camps by the rest of the world, with horrific stories and international law violations - https://nationalpost.com/news/canadian-went-to-china-to-debu... - and other stories of women being sterilized for ethnic “cleansing,” stories of organ harvesting from people here; all of which are only the stories that are getting out from these highly controlled and monitored environments. And then with the Hong Kong protests - there seems to be a suspiciously high amount of “suicides by fall” happening, or rather recorded as such by police - a story that is developing, however because it’s drawn media attention - if that was a tactic of “suiciding protestors” was being used then they’ll realize they can no longer use it for the attention it’s drawn.
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.“
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
From what I have read, these attitudes are strongly cultivated by the government and the government-controlled media. Do you disagree?
"To be a modern-day Chinese nationalist is to unknowingly agree to all of that and to become a de facto Han supremacist."
One of her friends married an English man, her parents excommunicated her, saying that she had "betrayed China".
I have heard of Chinese students in the UK unironically comparing black students to monkeys and questioning how they got in (since monkeys are stupid).
I would call it ethno-nationalism.
What you're describing could maybe be called ethnic hate/supremacism?