I have a feeling I'll get some comments about how its intent isn't immediately obvious but I wanted it to operate like a true application. I am honestly tired of seeing 99% of startups' websites looking like only a slight variation of the last.
I've intentially made the initial page is so (seemingly!!) limited so that anyone who visits for the first time is pretty much forced to read what it is (you'll see it if you wait 2-4 seconds!)... and once you know what it is... you know exactly what it is and for that information to remain afterward makes it cluttered. I'm also covering a fairly small niche with the product so most people who visit will know what it is beforehand anyway (by word of mouth - given the nature of the business). You'll notice that if you start typing your name before 2 seconds arrives, the popups telling you what it is don't appear. ;)
If you can't tell, I'm a big fan of simplicity and efficiency but with high function. There's a lot more going on with my app than it seems at first glance.
I would also like as much feedback as possible regarding the mobile version since I've only been able to test it on a small handful of phones. I'm actually in the process of downloading as many emulators as I can right now.
On average I've been putting in 70+ hours a week since July, as I've put it together entirely from scratch. No frameworks whatsoever other than a graphing library and the phpmailer library (more reliable/portable than the native mail function). I think it's time I slow down a little bit and get on with my life... lol... I'm 23 and this is my first startup... and I'm going solo... unfunded... so any guidance in helping this move forwards is GREATLY appreciated!!!
Played with the mobile version on a Blackberry 9700 (using Blackberry Browser) - so far, no problems. I don't have a band or any experience being in one, so I can't provide any commentary in that regard. Sorry!
>anyone who visits for the first time is pretty much forced to read what it is
I think you're overestimating the patience of the average web user. I spent about 8 seconds trying to figure it out before giving up an closing the tab. without any idea of what the site is, I have no motivation to invest any time in trying to figure it out. just my opinion, though.
>I think you're overestimating the patience of the average web user
I know a lot of semiprofessional musicians who would be the target audience for this kind of thing, and while they are creative, technical people who operate complex software and hardware to create their art, they are largely NOT of the same obsessively inquiring mindset we know and love here.
Creating music requires and encourages a different attitude to technology than programming. Lacking a full, deep understanding of your tools is almost a bonus a lot of the time. In fact it is necessary to prevent yourself from going too deep into each tool, if you want to successfully create any art. Music is all about results. There are no 'best practices' in art. This is why I keep failing at learning music production, I focus too much on trying to understand what I'm doing and never manage to create any actual music.
Understanding this fundamentally alien (to hackers) relationship to complex technology is IMO of paramount importance when marketing tools to musicians. They are already having to struggle to understand so many things, and the successful ones have learned to only dig as deep as they need to in order to realise their visions. Therefore you should be careful when offering them such complex tools, they may not use them the way you expect.
They are used to hammering their tools with unexpected inputs and combinations of inputs, until they get out something they like, and then they run with it, with no care whether they are doing it 'right' or not. If it sounds right, then it's right.
Understanding this mindset is key to making products for musicians.
(Disclaimer: This may not apply to other musicians, especially those making 'proper' music. YMMV)
When I visited in Chrome, I wasn't sure what your site offered. When I visited in IE, I got a laugh out of your warning screen, but at least I was able to read the page title - "Advanced Data Collections and Analytics System."
Clicking through the sign up forms, I'm guessing it's analytics targeted at creative groups, but I'm not sure what your competitive differentiator is.
EDIT: After reading your post (looks like we were typing at the same time, I guess it makes sense and I appreciate your efforts to stand out. If I were to mention it to a colleague though, without any other info, I'm guessing said colleague wouldn't stick around long.
The site is for specifically for touring artists and their management/booking agents/record labels. I can't imagine someone outside of the industry being referred to it, as it's a very specific niche... would it be wrong to assume that 99% of people visiting the site already know what it is? Even with that said, the limitations on the front page should force you down a path that tells you what it is. 4 seconds after the page loads a tip appears saying "What is RELA?" And there's a video tutorial link in the bottom left... with facebook and twitter links at the bottom right (which are pretty much the only things on the page)... all of which explain what it is. I was thinking anyone visiting for the first time would be nearly forced to at least check out one of those things. I mean... they're visiting it for a reason - probably not just some random skim through like people here at HN would do.
>>would it be wrong to assume that 99% of people visiting the site already know what it is?
Every industry is different, of course, but I think pitching a product/service (however briefly) is always a good thing. Give people an intriguing reason to sign up and see what else is on offer.
Think of it like this - if you go to a site and you know they offer accounting software, that doesnt mean you KNOW their software. You dont know how good it is, or how bad.
If you want to keep it simple, at least inform your users with your video without hiding it - ala Dropbox.
I think you need to make a much bigger effort to win your customers - an empty frontpage with just a sign up/login form will lose you a lot of potential customers. Remember, you're not Facebook yet.
I watched the tutorial video and it seems like cool idea. In regards to the video, the music was a bit too intense and distracting for me. Maybe you could remix or choose a different track??
Hahahah what you don't like inception?! Kidding. When I was coding the site around the time I made the video... I was on an Inception soundtrack binge, so I figured what could be better background music?! On second thought... perhaps I should change it haha... thanks!
I come to your site and I have no idea what it's for. Even if a friend in a band said, "hey, check this out," if I don't see something on the homepage that tells me I'm in the right place, I'm going to close the window. So in big letters say it's "Analytics for musicians" or whatever. Then I know this is the site my friend told me about.
I did wait, and got the message to watch a 9 minute video. You lost me. You might have 60 seconds to show me why this is the greatest site ever. Nine minutes is waaaay too long.
I highly recommend MicroISV's that Sell by Bob Walsh. http://47hats.com/ebooks/ $20 ebook that will tell you how to make a successful landing/homepage. Best $20 I ever spent.
If you really want it to have no explanation normally, because the user has been there before, just set a cookie saying that it's been seen before/closed. If a user is coming back often, then they will close it once, and be done.
That's fine because people who do visit the site will know what it is beforehand. It isn't for you. I'm more interested in criticism on its functionality (the actual app) rather than comments on the purposely limited landing page and judging a book by its cover like most people here seem to be doing.
I actually have a band and this app could be for me this summer. But I didn't get it at all the first time. The only reason I looked at it twice was that I found it here on HN. Not all your potential customers are the typical music-branch-guy.
Also, something to easier distinguish different widgets would really help! User defined color or something.
I really like the one-man-army way. Keep it up, you got some good stuff going on!
Tim, you need a beautiful landing page with lots of graphics and info. Don't fight against that golden rule. Even if you like simplicity and functionality, leave that for the app once you sign up.
The UI is minimal but pretty busy at the same time. I guess minimal isn't the right word, because it is a bit overwhelming. I would add splashes of color to the most used or most important 'function' on every page to help the users focus.
Maybe make the default/hint text for the input say "Band" instead of "Group" -- considering all I see when I visit the website is "RELA - Group - User - Pass" at least this would give me an inkling that it's for musical bands.
The interface is a little overwhelming -- maybe it's more natural on a mobile device, though. From the video I saw there are too many features. I'm not a musician, but I know a couple and they're not the meticulous type that want to track everything.
22 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 53.1 ms ] threadI've intentially made the initial page is so (seemingly!!) limited so that anyone who visits for the first time is pretty much forced to read what it is (you'll see it if you wait 2-4 seconds!)... and once you know what it is... you know exactly what it is and for that information to remain afterward makes it cluttered. I'm also covering a fairly small niche with the product so most people who visit will know what it is beforehand anyway (by word of mouth - given the nature of the business). You'll notice that if you start typing your name before 2 seconds arrives, the popups telling you what it is don't appear. ;)
If you can't tell, I'm a big fan of simplicity and efficiency but with high function. There's a lot more going on with my app than it seems at first glance.
I would also like as much feedback as possible regarding the mobile version since I've only been able to test it on a small handful of phones. I'm actually in the process of downloading as many emulators as I can right now.
On average I've been putting in 70+ hours a week since July, as I've put it together entirely from scratch. No frameworks whatsoever other than a graphing library and the phpmailer library (more reliable/portable than the native mail function). I think it's time I slow down a little bit and get on with my life... lol... I'm 23 and this is my first startup... and I'm going solo... unfunded... so any guidance in helping this move forwards is GREATLY appreciated!!!
I think you're overestimating the patience of the average web user. I spent about 8 seconds trying to figure it out before giving up an closing the tab. without any idea of what the site is, I have no motivation to invest any time in trying to figure it out. just my opinion, though.
I know a lot of semiprofessional musicians who would be the target audience for this kind of thing, and while they are creative, technical people who operate complex software and hardware to create their art, they are largely NOT of the same obsessively inquiring mindset we know and love here.
Creating music requires and encourages a different attitude to technology than programming. Lacking a full, deep understanding of your tools is almost a bonus a lot of the time. In fact it is necessary to prevent yourself from going too deep into each tool, if you want to successfully create any art. Music is all about results. There are no 'best practices' in art. This is why I keep failing at learning music production, I focus too much on trying to understand what I'm doing and never manage to create any actual music.
Understanding this fundamentally alien (to hackers) relationship to complex technology is IMO of paramount importance when marketing tools to musicians. They are already having to struggle to understand so many things, and the successful ones have learned to only dig as deep as they need to in order to realise their visions. Therefore you should be careful when offering them such complex tools, they may not use them the way you expect.
They are used to hammering their tools with unexpected inputs and combinations of inputs, until they get out something they like, and then they run with it, with no care whether they are doing it 'right' or not. If it sounds right, then it's right.
Understanding this mindset is key to making products for musicians.
(Disclaimer: This may not apply to other musicians, especially those making 'proper' music. YMMV)
Clicking through the sign up forms, I'm guessing it's analytics targeted at creative groups, but I'm not sure what your competitive differentiator is.
EDIT: After reading your post (looks like we were typing at the same time, I guess it makes sense and I appreciate your efforts to stand out. If I were to mention it to a colleague though, without any other info, I'm guessing said colleague wouldn't stick around long.
Every industry is different, of course, but I think pitching a product/service (however briefly) is always a good thing. Give people an intriguing reason to sign up and see what else is on offer.
If you want to keep it simple, at least inform your users with your video without hiding it - ala Dropbox.
I think you need to make a much bigger effort to win your customers - an empty frontpage with just a sign up/login form will lose you a lot of potential customers. Remember, you're not Facebook yet.
I did wait, and got the message to watch a 9 minute video. You lost me. You might have 60 seconds to show me why this is the greatest site ever. Nine minutes is waaaay too long.
I highly recommend MicroISV's that Sell by Bob Walsh. http://47hats.com/ebooks/ $20 ebook that will tell you how to make a successful landing/homepage. Best $20 I ever spent.
I really like the one-man-army way. Keep it up, you got some good stuff going on!
have you tried posting up on dontstayin.com?
People there are lot more rude and not really technical. But they are very keen on partying and organising events.
Kudos!