Ask HN: Do you meditate? How/Why?

184 points by fredoliveira ↗ HN
I've been doing a little bit of meditation lately and it helped me take time off to put things in perspective and generally feel a little less stressed out about life and work. However, I sometimes find myself thinking that maybe I should spend that time doing something useful (even if I know meditation is good for me).

What's your take? Do you do it? How and why do you do it? Care to share your experience? I guess what I'm looking for is a bit of peer validation for either side of the coin, and your thoughts. Thanks everyone.

121 comments

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To those curious - like I once was - about how you actually get started with meditation, I've used the introduction to mindfulness series over at audiodharma [1]. It's often hard to find resources that manage to actually separate meditation from zen/buddhist practices, and they do it quite well. The lectures are from Gil Fronsdal who's a Ph.D. from Stanford.

[1] http://www.audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

There's also a podcast available from them.
That's kind of a personal question.

Oh wait, MEDITATE? No, not that one. Takes too long.

I didn't mean for this to be a personal question - I don't think it is. To me, meditation is scientific (although to some, and in some religions, it is a spiritual thing). I could just as well have asked about whether you sleep or do sports, or code using vim vs textmate. It's as personal as you want it to be - but I respect your opinion, and your reluctance to reply.
He was joking that he read another, more personal activity that begins with m, rather than what you actually wrote - meditate.
(comment deleted)
I was making a joke because at first I misread the word 'meditate' as something else.

I'm beginning to realize that there's a humor tax on your karma if you're prone to make sarcastic jokes in well meant questions. Seems only fair.

But to answer your question in ernest, I've been thinking about it after hearing folks like Dan Benjamin and Leo Babauta talk about it, but currently don't. I'm sure it can benefit a lot of people (even me), but somehow there's a motivational hump I haven't gotten over yet and there always seems like there's something else to do.

...which basically means I'm the perfect candidate for someone who ought to do it.

@cgs1019: It's been a a while since I've read the commenter guidelines, and I was due for a refresher.

Without wanting to drag this out (and I'll end this thread after this comment), I did nothing that goes against those guidelines. I'm sarcastic in public like this all the time and don't think a joke like this is too uncivil. I wasn't baiting anyone to downvote me. I wasn't even complaining that I was. In fact, I even agreed with people that did.

As I hinted at in my follow up: My brand of humor that works better on other sites isn't exactly suitable on HN. I get that now and will act accordingly.

but somehow there's a motivational hump I haven't gotten over yet and there always seems like there's something else to do.

I know what you mean. Before I first started the idea of it bored the hell out of me (to be quite blunt). Even now that I do it sometimes, I still have to fight the impulse of wanting to do something else instead.

I don't have much patience for the claims that not thinking can yield profound insights; but I have found mediation techniques useful for simple relaxation.

I got the techniques from an ebook called "Mindfulness In Plain English":

http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html

Generally sleep and relaxing with friends is the best meditation for me.
I meditate to awaken (in the deeper sense), to bring calm to a wild mind (as I think Robert Pirsig said, peace of mind is not the most important thing, it's the only thing), and to try to become a better, more compassionate person.

You don't have to meditate in a convoluted sitting position if you choose not to (although there are good reasons for sitting in lotus).

I would start by just regularly sitting or walking quietly, being aware of your breathing, and watching thoughts and emotions flowing into and right back out of your mind's I.

I have been meditating for a while, always sitting in a chair. What are the advantages of the Lotus?
I apologize for simply lifting this off Wikipedia, but I too had that question before, and this paragraph was helpful:

The Lotus position is adopted to allow the body to be held completely steady for long periods of time. As the body is steadied the mind becomes calm, the first step towards meditation. The posture applies pressure to the lower spine which may facilitate relaxation. The breath can slow down, muscular tension decrease and blood pressure subside. The coccygeal and sacral nerves are toned as the normally large blood flow to the legs is redirected to the abdominal region. Digestion may also be improved.

My cynical suspicion is that the lotus position is traditional, and looks cool, and therefore people have come up with rationalizations for it.

Someone has already quoted Wikipedia, so I won't repeat it, but most of those sound like benefits that you can get by lying down, or finding a really comfortable chair, or something similar. And the bit about improving digestion sounds especially dubious, since it doesn't really say what that means, and a lot of Yoga folks have a bad habit of making vaguely shiny-sounding medical claims without evidence.

(Do I sound negative? I actually do sometimes meditate, because it's a pleasant thing to do. I just want to make sure I'm not fooling myself about why I'm doing it.)

I did quote Wikipedia and even though I'm (definitely) sceptic about the digestion bit myself, the others do make at least some sense. Obviously it is always quite easy to find justifications for something you believe (or want to believe) in.

I personally don't believe meditation needs a specific position. I've seen and read a few things that document the practice while walking and while lying down. I guess tradition does point to the lotus being the normal way to do it, but as long as you get the benefits of it in whatever position you find yourself in, you're fine.

Speaking from my own experiences, and pulling loosely from the zen tradition in which I practice:

Sitting meditation keeps you more alert, makes it easier to reach a state of samadhi, or focused, non-discriminating awareness. For a while, due to back pain, I switched to lying meditation. I was not a fan, it was much easier to drift off. Zen meditation typically involves leaving the eyes partly open to avoid daydreaming or entering some sort of trance state. I also found this difficult to maintain while in a prone position.

Sitting in full lotus is difficult for me, and I'm relatively flexible. I generally sit half-lotus or in a chair. Sitting without a chair for long periods causes pain in the legs and back/shoulders. That's part of the practice, learning to maintain focus and equanimity through pain and discomfort.

To the best of my knowledge, the common sitting postures - lotus, half-lotus, burmese, seiza - came about because they were maintainable for long periods. Sitting indian style with legs crossed in front, for example, your stomach muscles will quickly tire and you'll be hunched over.

My understanding is that the lotus position forms a tripod or your two knees and your butt, which is supposedly pretty stable.

I wouldn't know, as I haven't a prayer of attaining that position.

I have a little folding wooden meditation bench that I use. I don't think I'd want to meditate for more than half an hour using it, though. Some similar benches are available with cushions.

I recently started meditating about 20 minutes in the morning and 20 minutes in the evening. I've been sleeping much better and I can remember my dreams more easily. I also notice that I generally feel much more relaxed. It's not a cure all but it really does help.

I do not prescribe to any of the spiritual/pseudo-religion around it though. In fact, if it weren't for the noticeable benefits the 'religion' would have scared me off. There are different types but I'm more into the vedic/mantra and breathing exercises.

Guided meditation. A work-mate started a group, so we meet over in a room at lunch. He brings speakers and plays the recording from his ipod, so we meditate listening to the mix for about half an hour with our eyes closed. It's very relaxing and afterwards I find it easier to focus and code.
There's lots and lots of research out there that meditation increases insight, memory, improves sleep, reduces stress, reduces the physical perception of pain, improves, well, just about everything.

Useful refs:

http://www.amazon.com/Destructive-Emotions-Scientific-Dialog... (the Audio CD set is even better, imo, with actual dialog)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43006-2005Jan...

My favorite intros to secular meditation (that is, non-religious Buddhism):

http://www.amazon.com/Wherever-You-There-Are-ROUGH/dp/140130...

http://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/B0...

http://www.amazon.com/Being-Nobody-Going-Nowhere-Meditations...

Doing what I learned in from three, plus the Destructive Emotions audio book, absolutely transformed my life. Like night and day. Now I'm one of the best-adjusted people I know, despite having gone through (and, in a few cases, done) some horrendous things.

What mindfulness meditation teaches you, above all physical side effects, is to accept things as they are. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to change them, if they're truly bad, but most people deny what is reality. As if that helps. (I sure did.) But denying just hurts more, doesn't make it untrue, of course, and denial makes it impossible for you to improve things.

I think most of the troubles in life are caused by denial.

And, bonus, the level of mindfulness makes it easy for me to spot user interface/process (and therefor product) opportunities because I almost never just "tune out" and work on autopilot.

As a gymnast, I found meditation to be be a powerful way to train my mind to focus. This was particularly important for the pommel horse, which is a super nuanced event that you can can't "muscle" your way to success. I do believe I noticed a difference in my performance as time went on.

Now I try to meditate simply as a way of introducing calm into a life that is jam packed with work, socializing and outside projects. One of my goals for 2011 is to spend at least 2,000 minutes in meditation.

5 minutes a day? ;)
Better than zero.

As a former collegiate gymnast myself, I happen to know that you don't have a long time to meditate (in the gymnastics world, it's called visualizing your routine) before it's your turn to compete. Being able to get into a meditative state quickly can make or break your performance. Take to long, and you don't reach the state, and are more prone to errors. Almost all of the high level gymnasts visualize every routine they do, with varying degrees of success.

As you pointed out, Jason's goal does only average at about 5 minutes a day. But that's more time than a gymnast usually has (unless he wants to dismiss his teammate's routines, which is not exactly... nice). So for him, 5 minutes may be all he needs to reap the benefits, whereas someone who hasn't had the training to quickly get into that state may need more time.

I tried it a few times last fall, but I feel REALLY awkward doing it around other people. Since I'm in college I don't have many spaces for 'me' where I could meditate, but maybe I'll find some this semester in the library.
Here are some books and audio that have been insightful and enjoyable to read about mindfulness and related topics.

Peace Is Every Step: The Path of Mindfulness in Everyday Life - Thich Nhat Hanh

Full Catastrophe Living: Using the Wisdom of Your Body and Mind to Face Stress, Pain, and Illness - Jon Kabat-Zinn

Still the Mind: An Introduction to Meditation - Alan Watts

Also, these two audio CD collections are helpful:

Out Of Your Mind: The Nature of Consciousness - Alan Watts

Guided Mindfulness Meditation - Jon Kabat-Zinn

Really enjoy Jon Jabat-Zinn's material. He's got a couple videos on google tech talks and his guided CD's are very good. I came to meditation knowing nothing at all and his clear and simple explanations helped immensely.
I agree, I find his material very good. I think he has good timing and his voice is in no way annoying; something I often find off putting with audio CD's. He has a good ability to remove the 'mumbo bumbo bullshit' (as he puts it) and get to the core of what is important.

I also started with the Google tech talk and went on to his other work.

I do sometimes the "close your eyes and care only about breath and nothing else for 30 breaths" thing. It sometimes helps me to get back on track when my thoughts start completely spinning off.
I do not meditate because I fear that doing so may cause me to ascend to a higher plane of existence and I'm not prepared for that.
I meditate regularly. I fear losing my ambition or competitive drive, and I suspect that this will hold me back from making real "spiritual" progress.
Before I decided to start meditating, I read a ton of material on how and why to do it and none of it really stuck. So instead, I just sat down on the floor and started thinking.

At first, it was just free-association. I would let my mind wander, noting rather passively the landmarks along the way. As I refined my process a bit, I was able to spend more time noting than wandering, until a single topic could span weeks worth of almost-daily sessions.

So I firmly believe that there's no one right way to meditate, but there is a deep and proven benefit to setting aside part of your day for contemplative, abstract thought.

I love meditating! Been doing it since age of 6 (I was born in India & my Grandmother is an awesome teacher). Why? It's like bathing for mind & soul.

I even started a blog about it: http://www.meditationrocks.us/blog

You can find my experiences and learnings there.

  Summing-up:

How to Meditate (Easiest Way):

Sit in comfortable place.

With back straight (or you will fall asleep).

Close your eyes & focus on your breathing.

Count in as 1 and out as 2 till 15. Start back at 1 after 15

If you find your mind wandering, and it will, just start back at 15.

   FAQ


Do I put on music?

Light music, optional.

Do I need special equipment or place?

Nada, anywhere you can sit with back straight is fine.

I've too much energy for meditation

Cool! Then enjoy, meditate when you are feeling low.

PS: Will be eager to answer any questions, or help someone find their way... or maybe do some HN Meditation Group :P Just thinking out loud.

Can you sit against a wall? How long should one persevere before giving up if nothing interesting happens?
You say "Nothing interesting happens" like it's a bad thing. You're unclenching your mind, not being sprinkled with pixie dust. :) Expect to feel bored, then continually noticing how much you distract yourself (a song popped in my head...do I have e-mail?...what time is it?), then wondering if your knees will forgive you, then (maybe eventually, if you quit shifting), calm.

If you want to think about it as some sort of "deliberate sensory deprivation to stop the signals that would normally reinforce habitual fight or flight stimuli" thing, ok. It doesn't need to be a religious thing. Either way: You sit. It's boring. Deep breath. It just is.

I'm not the author of the parent comment, but in my experience, sitting for 15-20 minutes seems about right. Rather than trying to be all hardcore and meditating for 2+ hours a day, just try sticking with it a couple days a week. Doing it for shorter periods regularly adds up. It's not magic, though - it's more like consistently getting enough sleep. But it really does help, like emptying the lint trap in your mind.

Also, sitting against a wall is ok (if you get used to seiza (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seiza)), but you'll probably be happier with a "zafu" (small sitting cushion) so your back and knees are at an angle >90 degrees. You can also use a couch cushion, tree trunk programming book, or whatever.

i don't think anything is supposed to happen... (someone please, correct me if i'm wrong.)
Profound things are bound to happen with the right technique of meditation.
I don't recommend sitting against a wall. If you plan on meditating, I recommend investing in a zafu and zabuton. They'll provide much better back support than a wall or just the floor.
Wall is fine! But it is better if you can sit with back straight without any support at back. It keeps you alert.
Please explain: if it keeps you alert, you also have to concentrate your thoughts on this. Isn't this in contradiction to let all thoghts go? Thanks for an answer...
You make me want to go into Zen teachings now. So I will summarize them as much as I can:

What I meant:

Thoughts: Things going on.

Alert: Being aware of something. Observing something (can be thoughts)

Not being alert: You will drift off to sleep.

Meditation: Focusing (as in deliberative) and/ or Observing something that doesn't go on into endless thinking tank.

Let go of thoughts: that become an essay. Start thinking about Python and you can write an essay right now. Start listening to your breathing. And release any other thought that comes in. Yes you can keep repeating word Python and try to release thoughts that follow but it's easier with things like sound and mantras.

Sure there is much more to it than what I've written but hope you get the idea.

Thank you for the kind answer. It's a beginning...
Try meditating for 24 hours in a row. Something "interesting" is bound to happen - most likely severe pain somewhere in the body.

If you were able to observe that pain objectively with equanimity, meaning a) not averting from an experience you don't like or b) craving to have an experience you do like, wisdom about the nature of reality arises spontaneously.

More specifically, pain is not really what you think it is - some experience to shun worth avoiding at all costs. Watching the mind react to such an experience, and there are so many experiences that the mind is nearly hardwired to avert from or cling to, speak volumes. You will see how desperate it wants to stay in control of your experience and you should also note that because you can observe your mind, YOU ARE NOT YOUR MIND. Now you are starting to inquire into the nature of reality as-it-is, not as you want it to be.

Yes, you can sit against a wall.

Don't think you are participating in anything special. How long do you give up bathing before nothing special happens? Well... it's really that sort of question.

If you do it with 'easy' going attitude... you might feel sensations in your body. Or else.. just a relaxed mood and balanced body. Just be easy about it.

I am curious what I should do to meditate:

- should I try not to think about anything

- let my thoughts go free

- think about _nice_ things

- make some construction (like visualizing a tree, visualize all element of a clock, visualize a mathematic object)

It's not possible to think nothing, so you think a thought that doesn't expand into something big.

Like focus on breathing... occupy ur mind with it.

Focus on birds chirping around.. Now your mind might wander off to ANGRY BIRDS but pull it back softly. And focus on just sound or sensation.

Idea is to not think about something that expands into an essay. Helpful?

Is there a fundamental difference between this "relaxed" state and some form of exercise involving longer streaks of monotonous movement (say swimming) while focusing on the repetitive motions (and sensations) themselves?
Interesting! I don't think there is much difference. Let's see:

- Both are focusing moments

- Both require full attention to make any sense

- Both call for the best of you.

- Both are delicious (focusing on stuff is the fun of life, innit? )

But one calls for focus naturally (swimming) and the other needs deliberate focus against 'habit of thoughts'.

Hope that answers it.

We actually took the radical step of hiring someone to come and do group meditation in our office once a week. It's entirely optional, but typically our entire team gets involved. Everyone really looks forward to it. A great many have extended it into a daily meditation habit, which is great.

Makes sense - if our team is less stressed and has better control over their mental state, that means a happier, healthier, more productive company.

I've been meditating for a few months now. It helps reduce stress, improves ability to focus and resist distractions. Love it.
When I was in high school, I started meditating before my bowling competitions, using this book as a guide: http://amzn.com/B002VGXFVW (Zen Mind, Beginners Mind).

It definitely helped my performance, and I want to bring meditation back into my life. Maybe this thread will help :)

Yes. Meditation is instrumental for me in my day-to-day life. Meditation is my medium for self-reflection, relaxation, and clearing my mind. For me, it's also been helpful for combating depression.

I highly suggest the Reddit meditation subreddit — http://reddit.com/r/meditation. Basically the Hacker News of meditation. The archives are a great place to browse to learn more about meditation, like different techniques, advice (like should you scratch an itch or watch it? meditating under the influence? etc.), and everything related.

Edit: if you have an iPhone, the Equanimity app is pretty cool for timing your sits as well as recording thoughts or notes about your sit.

I meditate on the Word (Jesus) of God day and night. I also read the Bible and pray. Just talk to him like any friend. I receive peace and incite about things happening in my life.
I have been doing some research lately on how to meditate. You should do some light wikipedia reading on Pineal Gland, and Chakra, as well as the 528 mhz frequency.

Several techniques will suggest you keep your mind blank while meditating. This is next to impossible. Instead focus your mind on simple image and try to visualize it (with your eye closed) at the area of your forehead between your eyes.

I recently started to exercise the Five Tibetan Rites. That is not meditation, more yoga. And even that they constitute yoga is disputed. But what is more important is that it really increased my energy level throughout the whole day, and it helps me a lot to start things, stick with things, and after a whole day of work still by motivated to have conversation, do everyday chores and enjoy life. Give it a try. (There is a small booklet by one Peter Kelder about it, telling an unbelievable story how they become know in the west through the quest of one British Army officer.)
Minute for minute I don't think there is much more useful work you can do than focused meditation.

Sitting on a pillow with your eyes closed with your mind wandering is probably not productive. But honing your mind to focus on just that one image; or on nothing at all.. that is very very powerful.

Never meditated in the Buddhist sense. I'm not a particularly spiritual person, and the idea of doing some sort of 'meditating' doesn't appeal to me at all - it's not something that fits my concept of 'me'.

That said, I do spend a little bit of time - every day if I can - thinking about the many good things in my life and how much worse things would be without them. By doing so I find that I appreciate my situation a lot more, am much less likely to take things for granted, and am a lot more stoic about the not-so-good things that happen to everybody from time to time.

With respect to your own self-examination, I don't find that one need be a spiritual person in order to meditate according to some Buddhist traditions. And interspersed in a lot of Buddhist teaching seems to be the caveat that the same approach may not work for different individuals.