Ask HN: Random upper back pain is ruining my life. At wits end. Anyone else?

I've been dealing with a similar issue for about 11 years now: severe chronic back pain that wouldn't quit, caused by a bulging disc. The pain would often show up in random places or travel down my legs giving me a burning/tingling sensation.

I tried physio, chiropractors, acupuncture, yoga, cycling, swimming, multiple doctors, and pain killers with no luck. The only thing that really helped me to substantially decrease the pain and put it under control was lifting weights! I got a personal trainer who had experience in this area and over 3 months he helped build the foundation and teach me how to work out properly, this was 6 years ago. Strengthening the lower back muscles and regular exercise has reduced my pain by about ~85%; however, the pain does come back if I don't exercise for more than a few weeks.

Maybe exercise is not the solution for you, but I just wanted to tell you that even though this pain might make you feel helpless and depressed, if you search long and hard enough it is likely that you'll find the solution. Don't give up!

I was assuming it's pneumonia but I've never seen any pneumonia that have lasted this long.

For me, back and shoulder pain increases with time spent in front of a computer. Probably a combination of posture and weakness.

Yoga, mobility, and strength training (weights or body weight) have significantly reduced my back tension.

Ymmv, and I don’t know all your details. Feel free to ping me if this resonates though.

I have permanent issues. It's never going to be cured and surgery would be a mistake.

Helpful was exercises and consultation with a competent physical therapist. Yes I tried everything else. This doesn't cure it but makes life more livable.

Anecdata: my back spasms stopped after I started a daily multi-vitamin.

1. It would help to know what doctors have said so far so that we can eliminate some from our hypotheses

2. I had a minor case of myofascial pain which has reoccured over 2 years but physiotherapy gets it down and strength training helps it stay at bay

3. However my girlfriend, who had a fundamentally similar pain has been suffering for more than a year and a half with days when she is bed ridden. It doesnt help that she's a biologist so her work at the microscope severely messes up her neck. The pain and stiffening keeps increasing, there's soreness and what have you. It is diagnosed as fibromyalgia.

4. The way we have gotten better at managing it is. a. Physiotherapy. I can comment more on this once I know about how much of this maps on to your condition

b. Harm reduction of the occupational hazard(which applies to desk job folks too).

c. Very regular exercising

d. Majorly, diagnosis of nutrient deficiencies. She's been a vegetarian all her life so she was deficient in protein, Vitamin D and B12. Supplements helped with her recovery.

e. Some CBT. Chronic pain fucks your brain and muscular pain is exacerbated by mental distress. So mental health managrment is part of our stratergy for her.

Im sure this is super hard man. Don't give up. It's really about finding the right path.

I don't know if this is the answer, but you could always try something like yoga. Maybe you just need to get off the couch and build some strength. Most chronic pain I've had over the the years went away with being more active. YMMV and I am not a doctor.

Given that your symptom is related to hydration, I wonder if the pain could be related to kidney stones. An internet search gives me an article that says the pain location may move as the stones move around: https://www.healthline.com/health/symptoms-of-kidney-stones#...

IANAD but sounds like it could be disc related.

> I've been to doctor after doctor after doctor and I have absolute no more info then when I started.

If you haven't already, see an orthopedic surgeon (preferably one who specializes in spines - but any ortho is fine) and get an x-ray + MRI w/o contrast. Sometimes you have to request/demand the MRI - MRI's can be expensive depending on where you live/insurance.

The ortho can then either tell you what's wrong based on the imaging, or have ruled out a bunch of stuff and might refer you to another specialist for other tests.

And lastly, for the love of all that is holy: AVOID CHIROS!

At the very least until you have figured out what is going on/what the cause of the pain is.

Good luck!

I can’t use a laptop on my lap or a table for an extended period of time. I had similar terrible neck pain, which went away after switching to a few monitors on a stand that brought their centers of the screen to eye level. I never really use my laptop as a laptop aside from airplanes a few times a year, the pain for me totally went away. It was very depressing until through trial and error I resolved it.

Finding medical advice online is always hit or miss, but I had severe upper back pain for quite a few years that matched many of these characteristics. To my astonishment, the problem turned out to be gastric and related to stomach acid. After lots of tests that ruled out lots of things, it was eventually solved by an doctor who had a similar issue himself, and suggested that I try a high dose of Prilosec just to see if helped. I was extremely doubtful (since the pain was not in my stomach) but since like you I was desperate, I tried it. Behold, it helped almost immediately, and within a couple days I was almost pain free.

I eventually figured out diet and sleep position changes that let me stop taking the Prilosec (mostly sleeping with a wedge and allowing several hours after eating before sleeping) and now I mostly have the problem under control. At the least, knowing the cause and how to fix it makes the occasional pain a lot more manageable. While this might not be your exact problem, consider that it might be. And if nothing else, have hope that maybe you'll eventually find an equally unlikely solution that gets you past this current pain.

There was a thread [1] here a few days ago about the book "The Body Keeps the Score", which examines the link between emotions and physical pain.

I posted the comment [2] that is still top of that thread; basically I've been living this for many years. I've certainly found that chronic back pain (which I've experienced) responds to deep emotional healing.

Physical exercise is important too; I'm not claiming, and you shouldn't accept anyone else's claims, that emotion-based treatments will magically heal the pain without exercise or physical therapy.

But the reverse applies too, and the subconscious mind can certainly keep muscles tense and joints out of alignment for a long time, in spite of any exercise or physical therapy you undertake.

I'll repeat the offer that I made in that subthread: I'll be writing a document or perhaps rather starting a discussion forum, so that I can explain everything I've experienced and learned, and allow others to take what they need from it.

Feel free to email me (address in profile) to be included.

Be assured, there are things that can be done. I know how you feel, but trust that you don't need to suffer like this forever.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21340636

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21341101

The thing that really helped for me was Alexander Technique. You have to find a good teacher - there are a lot of cranks, unfortunately - but the good ones are amazing.

My teacher helped me to work on my underlying habits around movement and posture. Once I had worked through that, I was pain-free enough to be able to start doing weight lifting. The lifting helped a lot, but it was only possible because of the Alexander.

I’ve found great relief from my chiropractor. My chiropractor will first use an electrical stimulator to relax the muscles, adjust the spine to restore movement, and... nothing else. Repeat a couple times a week until the issue is resolved, and.... nothing. Return if the problem returns.

Other chiropractors are trying to lock you in to a treatment plan, x-rays, etc. whatever they can do to bill your insurance for more and more.

Yet another type of chiropractor will sell you crystals etc.

There are major problems with chiropractors. Find a good one.

It’s changed my life, but I expect you’ll find many who have employed the other two types and aren’t as complementary.

Good luck.

Did you doctor at least prescribe some prednisone and cyclobenzaprene? That seems to be the standard treatment when I take three hours to crawl to the bathroom and finally make it to urgent care.

Copied from a thread comment I read years ago which changed my life.

>I suffered from chronic pain that was starting to seriously interfere with my life for a couple of years. I could find neither a cause nor non-invasive solution till I read The Mind-Body Prescription[0]. It quickly and completely fixed my problem. I actually learned about the book here on HN: I'm usually a very skeptical person, but enough self-proclaimed skeptics (who were embarrassed to admit they even read it) claimed success with it that I decided to check it out.

I highly recommend reading it (with an open mind) if you're suffering from a chronic ailment that lacks an obvious physical cause. I used it for chronic pain, but the author claims success with just about any other type of "catch-all" diagnosis that doctors make when they're stumped, like IBD.

BTW: the doctor is an American psychiatrist with a long career, so it's not your usual alternative medical book. But I consider it "alternative medicine" in that it's based on similar principles as some other alternative medicines and the theory does not seem to have any sort of acceptance in the western medical community. (The author cites his evidence, and provides his explanation for why the medical community rejects that sort of evidence.)

[0] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FA5SJS

possibly migraines? it started when i was around 23 and I had the same symptom (unreasonable back/neck pain). I just started to have headaches after visiting a neurologist and getting medication (pamelor), in the first month of medicine, the back pain stopped. after some months of headaches (and medication) most of it stopped. try to see if the pain correlates with coffee, sleep and fat food. everyone has certain triggers and they may take a while to appear. if I'd drink too much coffee, I'd have migraines in the next day. eating fat food on friday would just appear as pain on sunday or monday...

I recommend studying the short book "Treat Your Own Back" by Robin McKenzie and also finding a physical therapist familiar with his techniques. I was in similar distress and it was fairly quickly resolved by these techniques and I have also observed these techniques being effective for several other people. Physicians in the US are not trained in physical therapy yet physical therapists in the US are only allowed to apply physician-prescribed treatments! This can lead to some bizarre Catch-22 situations until you find a highly experienced physical therapist who can work with you. Checking if they use the "McKenzie methods" is a touchstone.

Yes!! This description especially of the maddening tingling, buzzing pain and inability to pinpoint the location of the pain sounds exactly what I started dealing with in my early 20s (except on the right side). I had this on and off throughout my entire adult life. Long periods of standing or sitting still or working at a screen/computer definitely aggravated the problem for me. For me the resolution came one day in my mid to early 40's in a yoga class that I'd gone to not realizing it was a bit more challenging than I'd expected (it was a partial ashtanga series class) The instructor responded to my look of shock and horror that we were going to attempt full wheel (a back bend) by saying (correctly, as it turned out) "you can do a back bend". From that moment of fully opening my spine in that inverted direction, I have never experienced that particular, horrible creeping, tingling pain/numbness again. Sure, I've had pain and discomfort of various sorts over the ten or so year since Mark said " you can do a back bend", but I have never had that particular, chronic creeping tingling pain.

backpack. tighten the backpack and go for a hike

Taekwondo helped my back pain. Your muscles get tense and tight and pull your bones this way and that. When this happens and nerves start getting moved or pinched then funny things happen, like pain and tingling.

There was a point I could not lay down without the pain. Gaining back full range of motion and strengthening muscles to do their job, support your body, can make a big difference.

Best of luck to you, I hope you find something that helps.

One entity to consider in your differential diagnosis is that of contraction knots, aka “trigger points” in muscle fibers. They are a common cause of referred pain and can also cause all sorts of symptoms if the contraction knots also impinge upon blood vessels, nerves and/or automatic fibers. Because Western medicine basically ignores mechanical issues that aren’t amendable to surgery, it can be tough to find a doctor who can diagnose trigger points properly unless they’ve been trained to do so.

I went through a somewhat similar problem a decade ago where I had excruciating pain and burning to one side of my sacrum for years. I could not sit in a chair for more than 20 minutes, and could only sleep on my stomach. I went to doctor after doctor who put me through test after test, only to end up with no diagnosis or relief. One day I happened to be scrolling through the AM dial when I came upon a show where someone was talking about piriformis syndrome, a type of trigger point that resulted in symptoms identical to mine. I found a doctor who treated it with myotherapy and the rest is history.

I recommend The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook by Clair Davies NCTMB and Pain Erasure by Bonnie Prudden. Also Quick Study makes a nice Trigger Points chart. Truth be told, I’m surprised this issue isn’t discussed more given the occupational hazard created by sitting in front of a computer all day. I hope you feel better soon. Please keep us posted on your progress and take care.

I've dealt with bouts of severe back pain from sitting at a desk for far too long through my 20s (and probably initially caused from a dumb injury lifting weights). I suffered with "throwing my back out" for maybe 10 years. It got to the point where I sneezed one time and threw out my back so badly I was bedridden for a full week.

But now I'm 42 and pain-free. Pilates (with a GOOD instructor) was what initially helped me. I started when I was still hurting badly and a good instructor can help you strengthen muscles and loosen what needs stretching without damaging you further. Mine was an active dancer and knew a ton about anatomy and injury recovery. I believe Pilates was originally created to help dancers recover from injury so it is a good place to start. Without knowing your underlying issue, most back pain people have comes from sitting too much, which means you can probably solve the issue completely through exercise and stretching.

Some small details that might help right away: a big key for me was learning how to "activate my core" which is something like sucking in your stomach but more conceptually like trying to draw your stomach back toward your spine. I believe it is a key element of many martial arts too, and by learning to tighten those broad, internal muscles you take stress off of the fiddly little muscles that are all knotted up and causing you pain. The more I was able to be aware of those muscles and activate them when my back was tight/tense, the easier I could loosen the knot, so to speak.

From your description of your pain, there is one key stretch that should address it directly. You might have heard this before from a doctor or P.T., but I highly recommend you do it routinely. Find a doorway and hold your arm up like for a high five. Put your raised arm against the wall with your shoulder at the doorway gently push your body through the doorway so you arm is stretched back at the shoulder. This should be a great stretch for your upper pecs and will probably feel quite tender. What is happening is that by sitting at a desk you are hunching forward which is stretching your back muscles and compressing your pecs. Exercising your stretched out and painful back won't do much, what you need to do is stretch your compressed pecs so they can take the load off your overtaxed back muscles.

Threw my back out multiple times a year for about 3 years and it was paralysing. Learned fundamental Yoga exercises and now do a couple of them in bed when I wake up and a 30 min night time session 3 times a week. Haven't had a single issue since beginning this routine.

For me, regular exercise got rid of the back pain that I used to get from working at a desk. This took about two months until I didn't feel any pain anymore. In those two months, I experienced more severe back pain though than I had before. As it turns out, this probably came from eating too many nuts.

So as I started working out more, I also began to eat more healthy, including lots of nuts every day. After a couple weeks of this, I started getting this intense pain in my upper back on the right side, which I never had like this before. I was having this pain for about two weeks and it was there constantly, no matter if I was sitting at a desk or not. Any massages that I got to address this didn't help.

According to a video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcrii9_Um0I), eating lots of nuts bloats up the gallbladder, which then presses on a nerve. This can lead to pain on the right side of the back and, although I didn't experience this, pain in the neck and headaches.

I then stopped eating nuts and the pain was gone two or three days later. Today I do eat nuts again. But if I eat lots of them every day for weeks on end, the pain does come back, although I never had it as severe again.

So maybe even though your pain tends to be on the left side, dietary changes could be worth a try.

Same with lower back