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Ask HN: What to do after the workday?

119 points by fuzzymind ↗ HN
I mostly enjoy my day at work. There are people to talk to and somewhat interesting projects to work on. However, when I go back home, all I see is the home computer and the television. Yes.. I could go on with those, but I feel there's more. What is that? Please help!

111 comments

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curuinor
Americans, Japanese and Korean people tend to do that sort of thing because the work weeks are punishingly difficult. If you worked part-time for a period and put serious effort into thinking about something to do, this question would mostly answer itself. Of course this isn't possible in most working situations.
ivanon
I had this dilemma not too long ago. You need to find your purpose in life. You're starting to feel that working for someone else just isn't giving you that satisfaction. I'm still in my early 20s, but I feel like I can relate and provide some insight. I was working at a decent job, enjoyed working with my coworkers, days went by without too much stress. I would come home everyday and wouldn't have any serious motivation to do anything productive for some reason, despite having a burning desire. I would go to sleep, wake up, and go back to work. Before I knew it, 2 years went by as I worked at that company and I was getting let go. I started looking back and began to notice that outside of work, I haven't really accomplished too much with my life. I spent about a week sitting in my apartment thinking what I was going to do with my life. Those were dark times. One day it just snapped, I decided to take a very serious plunge into the music business. Me, being in my early 20s, I made a very rash decision and drove to Atlanta and met a lot of new friends and that really broke the ice for me getting into music. I ended up staying there for a few months, and I have a finished product that I can market from that escapade. The issue was now that I was completely broke after that venture, so I ended up coming back home and got a new programming job fairly quickly and that's where I'm at right now. Nowadays, I DON'T go home immediately after work to help remedy the problem of losing all motivation to be productive. I go to the gym for about an hour every other day and then take a shower. Afterwards, I hop into a coffee shop, open my laptop and start reading like there's no tomorrow for a few hours, and then go home. The books I read are books that I know will help my business so I see it as a good investment of my time while I save money to pursue my goals outside of work.
crookshanked
Freelance, find new recipes that you may enjoy and make interesting dinners. Also the obligatory third place - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
agent008t
Is Third place even a thing in modern cities nowadays? I feel like it has shifted online, and even online Third places (small message boards) have been disappearing... HN may be quite close to one.

In a city like NY or London or SF, what would be good Third places for HN-type people?

crookshanked
Serving size 1 - Coming from Southeast US there is a rise in craft micro-breweries in many of the more 'hip' cities. These smaller locations tend to have groups of regulars who tend to know each other and provide such a 'service'. That being said I do agree with the thought of this phenomenon moving to the internet, things like city based slack chats work decently for this and these groups work to create physical meetups as well.
ken
There are Third Places if you know where to look. You just have to decide what your Third Place is, or discover it.

I'm not sure what "HN-type people" means because I'm clearly way out of the standard demographic and my Third Place would not be yours. It pains me to think that there is a standard demographic here.

purpleflame1257
My advice is hit the gym. It gets you out of the house, gets you healthier, and probably makes you better-looking too. Doesn't need to be a "gym" per se either--an athletic hobby like rock-climbing or basketball works as well.
rjkennedy98
Start reading. There is nothing more worthwhile than reading (especially classic literature). Find an author who interests you and read all of their books and move on from there :)
wayoverthecloud
Do you have any recommendations?
eyeundersand
I'm not OP but let me take this opportunity to recommend Fyodor Dostoevsky. I started with The Brothers Karamazov when I was fresh out of high school and struggling with identity (coming from a traditional Hindu society in Nepal). It has helped me immensely and I consider it to be one of the best most comprehensive and educational books I have ever read.

(If it helps anyone, Kurt Vonnegut, who wrote Slaughterhouse Five and Breakfast of Champions is a big fan of Dostoevsky and recommends his works in multiple writings.)

/$0.02

wayoverthecloud
Hey, thanks for the recommendations. Glad to see a fellow Nepali in HN :).
eyeundersand
I'm genuinely surprised. What are the odds! Khusi laagyo :)
muzani
I have a rule of thumb. From a stress rating of 0-10, your days should ideally be 8 stress or 0.

Growth = stress + rest

The more elite people can take on a lot more stress. 0 doesn't necessarily mean watching Netflix; for me that's more stressful than playing with spreadsheets or commenting on HN.

What most people do is stick around 3-5 stress level (the comfort zone) or constantly at 6 (trying my best). It's a recipe for mediocrity as you never push yourself hard enough to improve.

If you've had a slow day at work, then push yourself. If you're not sure what to do, pick up a book. Something like this is nice to start: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19087418

You can practice typing faster. Learn keyboard shortcuts; they're probably the biggest leverage I have in programming now. Learn speed reading or how to get to 90% comprehension. These are all fun things to do, yet enough to tire you out.

But don't do this every night. Find things that actually replenish you, not some mindless semi-productive activity. I personally love playing with my kids, watching superhero movies, reading web fiction or TV tropes, or idle games that involve wikis and spreadsheets. You find your thing.

I good judge is how I feel in the morning. If I'm physically or mentally sore, I need to focus on rest that day. If I can naturally wake before 6, it's a day to push myself.

azinman2
I’m not sure why you’re equating stress and growth. Surely you can grow without being stressed? In fact, that’s my preferred way! I enjoy learning new things and being challenged... to me that’s not stressful at all, but the opposite — restorative.
nscalf
I think the original post conflated stress and discomfort, because they described my views pretty closely but I call it discomfort instead. I think if you’re resting, be largely comfortable. If you’re uncomfortable (in a constructive way), you’re learning.
muzani
Yeah they're synonyms as far as I'm concerned. I use stress more in the physics sense of exertion and strain, but I suppose others may link the term with incompetent managers.
Scarblac
Being outside a comfort zone is stressful, but it's also what makes you grow.
muzani
The book Peak Performance goes into detail on this.

Exercise is a closer analogy. You can't really lift more until you lift near your capacity. A brief session is far more impactful than long sessions of a lower weight. Short bursts at near max speed improve your stamina than an hour long walk.

Mentally it works the same way too. Sometimes growth means just thinking faster, or being able to follow a train of thought deeper.

Knowledge wise, you should be reading more difficult, information dense books, and less articles, podcasts, light books. The lighter ones I find are trivia, they don't improve your understanding of the world much, but the essays, biographies, historical books, academic journals go far.

You do need lots of rest. It's not a bad thing to be stressed out, as long as you get plenty of rest.

zajomi
can I ask what idle games involve wikis and spreadsheets?
muzani
Honestly, even something like Farmville counts. I had a little spreadsheet to calculate which crop was the best for the period I wanted to leave the game. Basically all idle games are little spreadsheet games.

Deeper in, there's games like Kittens.

More complicated, there's online games like Cyber Nations. The one I've been playing for months is Soulforged, which has a complex research and crafting system: https://soulforged.net:8443/

username90
Which idle games doesn't? The main challenge is to try to make your numbers tick up faster, and that requires mostly math (spreadsheets) and information (wiki).
maps7
I cannot agree with any of this.. but I think this comes down to how you define stress. I equate stress to be a bad thing but I don't equate stress to pushing myself.

Stress for me is mainly responsibility with lack of authority. Other stress comes from anxiety.

muzani
That sounds like a 10 on the stress scale - high enough that you give up.

I think the stress level should be just high enough that you're close to giving up. It's at the point where you simply can't go any harder. You'll either improve biologically, as in your mind/body improves to meet the demands, or you find other, more effective ways to do it.

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NicholasJK
I'm "that guy" who plays with new libraries and dives into HN articles. I have side jobs, podcast, meet-ups (although not for long). I continue trying to take me social media skills to the next level, but no luck yet. I throw all that in the trash whenever one of my 3 kids needs me for an even or anything. They're pretty independent so I'm lucky. At 35years, I should be exercising... But I love learning new things, and always try to make progress towards self-employment.
rinchik
That's awesome! Do you mind linking your podcast? Curious how it's structured and topics. I was also thinking about doing a podcast but only whine and push my thoughts on my fellow few followers in my blog right now.
villgax
Awesome work, in addition to it Socrates might want to say something about exercising, "see what manner of man you may become by developing your bodily strength and beauty to their highest limit."
bluedevil2k
Get the heart pumping - go for a run/walk, life weights, play basketball...something to make your body feel good after sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day. Depending where you live, get 20-30 mins of sun, does wonders for the feel-goods. Find a hobby you enjoy that’s not on the computer, if only to spend at least an hour a day away from a screen. Find some meetups to meet some people, talking with people outside of a work environment is good for your social skill upkeep.
z5h
Go for a walk with a (real) camera and try to find something to photograph.

  1. good exercise.  
  2. you'll start noticing more and looking at things differently.  
  3. you'll be holding a camera instead of a phone - so you'll stay more engaged with the exercise.
rinchik
"What to do after the workday?" - is the key of the question

> Go for a walk

It's almost winter in US. Pardon me, but taking a walk in the dark, alone, with your camera doesn't really sound as a good advice.

I bet with your new iPhone you can take gorgeous photos at night but that can be fun only once on the blue moon, not every day?..

saiya-jin
It is a great activity, just get a camera that makes good pictures after sunset with little light (meaning no phone but rather something with 1" sensor or bigger). There is creative aspect to it in form of looking for a good shot, its composition, framing etc.

Unless of course if you live in crappy place riddled with criminality and evening walk is semi-sure way to get mugged or worse.

Heck, evening walks are a great way to clear your head after long day at work. I get tons of ideas out of blue when subconsciousness processes them.

pandemicsyn
> "It's almost winter in US. Pardon me, but taking a walk in the dark, alone, with your camera doesn't really sound as a good advice."

Pardon me, but the US is an absolutely giant place - in Texas this is the time of year where I can go out in the evening and not be miserable. Also some of the best photo's I've ever taken where in Telluride in the middle of February right after sunset.

rinchik
Oh right! My bad, apologies. We northerners always forget that south exists and different.
kissgyorgy
Rest! Go for a walk, turn off your brain, you will need it for a long time!
hprotagonist
When your brain is tired, make your body tired, too.
xyzal
After regenerating all day at work, I swap with my wife in the duty taking care for my 9mo toddler. I love her, but I still look forward to being back at my work PC. Hopefully it gets better with time.
reilly3000
Invest in relationships. Whether they be personal or professional the time you spend there is like a multiplier for the quality of your future.
weaksauce
Go rock climbing at a gym. Mental flow is common while climbing and it’s a great exercise. Gymnastic mental puzzle.
mrguyorama
Rock climbing was the most fun I've ever had scared out of my damn mind. Even with a fear of heights, it can be worth a try
notus
I do the same thing. I have a feeling a lot of engineers are in this same trap. The problem is that prolonged periods of just going home and watching tv after work is going to lead to an increase in social anxiety for many people. Which then leads to even more isolation.

Ideally I envision myself going to the gym, going to a meetup, playing board games, etc, but I just never seem to bring myself around to doing it.

azinman2
Put stuff on your calendar. Don’t overload it, but dot your calendar out for a month or two with an event once a week. Buy. Ticket to something so you feel some pressure, and invite some friends. Find ways to motivate yourself and see that as a challenge to overcome.
mrguyorama
I've massively struggled to find these events to go to.
azinman2
Unless you're somewhere extremely rural, there has to be _something_ going on. There are many places these are advertised and aggregated: local newspapers, Facebook events, Ticketmaster, Eventbrite, Meetup, and even Google has a pretty great events product now. What are you struggling with?
maps7
It's crazy to think how many of us are similar across the world. Get up, commute to work, do work, commute home, watch netflix and repeat.
azinman2
Of course there’s lots more. The world is full of stuff. If you live in a city, there should be a ton of things going on. Go to a museum. See a show. Meet up with friends. Find meetups about things you’re passionate about or interested in. Volunteer. Learn a new language.

If you’re not in a city, there are plenty of hobbies that might interest you. Anything fitness / sports. Learn to draw / paint. Take courses online. Read books. Sculpt. Build. Tinker. Cook. Mediate.

Find things that are relaxing to challenging, so you have options depending on your day.

loriverkutya
I do aikido.
peatmoss
Martial arts are a great answer. And aikido can be a great martial art. They are both social and exercise. Plus, if you’ve been braining all day in a relatively self-directed way, it’s really sublimate your ego and front brain to instruction and kinesthetic puzzling.

People get wrapped around the axel of the effectiveness of aikido, but truthfully it’s great defense against dying lonely or of heart disease. At least at many dojos. Some dojos are less physical than I'd like, and some are more. I’m happy to be at a dojo that leaves me uninjured but drenched in sweat and out of breath (and I’m in pretty good shape).

jrumbut
If you moved in with someone, you would at least have another person to face this question with you.
jacquesm
Music, friends & family. Oh, and project hacking...
hjdarnel
Exercise. Socialize. Try to combine the two.
crisnoble
Riding a bike hits both of these, and the balance between the two is highly customizable on each ride.
kylehotchkiss
Take a walk! Enjoy your town/city. Research about something outside of tech. Try some new restaurants. Plan a vacation to somewhere you never ever thought of visiting.

It'll all help you be more creative at work too :)

commandlinefan
Get married and have kids. They'll fill up all of your free time and then some.
azinman2
Little hard to just “do that.” I’m guessing the poster is single given the content of the request.

You can, however, just go out and get a dog. They can take up a lot of time while also being very rewarding. And it’s a lot cheaper.

souprock
This is the correct answer. That feeling of empty pointlessness is because the drive to have kids is not being satisfied. User "volument" here is suffering an existential crisis.

I have 12 kids. They depend on me. There is always something going on. Even the bad things have an upside of removing boredom. There is no time for television. Tomorrow, on Saturday, I will be homeschooling AP Chemistry. Three kids have to go to college classes, and six kids need to sign up for spring semester. Little ones need to learn reading and math. The baby is extra cute and fun to play with. There is grocery shopping to do, sometimes 4 carts at a time.

Ancalagon
12 wow props to you. What does your monthly budget look like and how do you expect to pay for college for all 12??
souprock
It's about $4000 for food. It's been a while since I looked at the rest. The house and cars are paid off.

I don't expect to pay for college for all 12. They start dual-enrollment as early as 12, with the school district paying for books and tuition, so a college degree can be had for the cost of commuting and trivial fees. Normally that would be just an AA degree (the few 4-year degrees offered locally are lousy), but a couple more years to upgrade it to a BS at UCF isn't terribly expensive. I could just pay it, but it might be better for the kids to solve their own financial problems. Maybe somebody will go into the military, go to a trade school, or be a homemaker. The ones with plans so far have chosen: CPA (maybe), software developer, lawyer (physics undergrad), something medical (physician assistant?), and midwifery.

Ancalagon
Got it thanks for the response :). I have a secret dream of having a large family as well, so was just curious how you made it all work.
souprock
It helps to be in an affordable area with a software development job. It is then possible to have one parent stay at home. I'm near Melbourne, FL.
postsantum
What if they follow your advice and it wasn't the reason? Now instead of one bored person you have several unhappy ones.

I am sure a good chunk of the fathers who are still "looking for the right pack of cigarettes" had a similar idea

xsmasher
This may be the wrong answer.

That feeling of empty pointlessness is because SOME drive is not being satisfied, but it might be completely unrelated to having children.

gpvos
Join a choir. Go dance tango or folk dance. Become a radio amateur. Take a walk in nature during the weekend. Take up a hobby that doesn't involve computers (that much).

Or have children.

sputknick
Sit in silence. I guess it's kinda meditation, but I just like to sit in silence. Sometimes its 5 minutes, sometimes it's 2 hours. I always feel happier and more relaxed afterwards. My guess is what's happening behind the scenes is that my brainis processing all the input it's been receiving over the day. Just sit on the floor in a room with not much going on. Temperature should be comfortable. Just do literally nothing.
dgellow
Just sharing my personal experience here: if I do this alone I become incredibly anxious, in a quite bad way (though I know that I have higher anxiety level than average). My significant other does it quite often, just sitting in the bed or on the couch doing absolutely nothing, staring at a wall or the ceiling, and she really seems to enjoy it. It's weird how just doing nothing can have so much impact.
davidjnelson
Meditation is very fulfilling. Insight timer has a bunch of free meditations. If you don’t have a partner that’s certainly worth finding. Eating healthy plants and hiking in the woods/park are great for you and feel good. Any of your buddies from work like meditating, eating together, talking, playing card games, stuff like that? Businesses can be fun to start for the right person, especially around open source or other things that help people. Hope that helps friend, best wishes.