"pocket summon" probably isn't the most likely scenario. A more likely one is using pocket summon while in the rain, and water on the touchscreen causing the summon button to remain pressed even after the finger's lifted.
This can totally happen. You might have already had the summon view up and targeted already, ready to leave, when your friend mentions something to you and you just stick your phone in your pocket.
That's actually a good point. Even if the tesla app reverts to its default state when the phone is locked, one might pocket their unlocked phone while "come to me" is shown.
I was excited for this feature after playing Batman Arkham Knight game. Batman can summon is Batmobile while jumping over the rooftops and jump right into the drivers seat.
i'm not a lawyer, but my guess for both questions, the driver's inability to provide an eyewitness account would probably heavily bias towards their fault. Kind of like if you were driving your car with your eyes closed.
This actually happened and was on video as well. It was the first week smart summon came out. A Tesla was moving, already behind a car, then the car just backed out into it. A typical parking lot crash that happens all the time. Parking lots are terrible places for accidents.
Of course many in the media took the video and created a headline which was VERY misleading.. "Tesla smart summon gets into accident"... while yes, that is true, it was no fault of the Tesla doing smart summon.
But as the article said, that liability may not be covered by that person's vehicle insurance in British Columbia
> In the recent incident in Richmond, thankfully, there was no accident. Had an accident occurred, the vehicle owner's insurance may not have provided coverage.
I don't think anyone disagrees that the vehicle's driver is liable (regardless of physically being in the vehicle or using summon). The issue here seems to be if that is legal at all and if it is legal if insurance would cover that liability.
Plus what happens if a third party activates summon, for example a toddler? Is the toddler now legal liable for any accidents? Is the owner of the car? Is the child's parent/guardian (even if they weren't physically there)? Lots of interesting legal edge cases to explore.
> regardless of physically being in the vehicle or using summon)
Imagine you're driving along the road, see a pedestrian crossing and see a pedestrian on it. You hit the brake but brake doesn't work, because of the manufacturing flaw (later one they will issue a recall but not just yet) so you hit someone. I think it is pretty obvious that manufacturer of the car is liable in this case. Although you still get into trouble, all the investigation, courts, etc.
> Plus what happens if a third party activates summon, for example a toddler.
In Australia, in NSW, you're responsible if you didn't take the precautions necessary and someone, who's not supposed to drive your car, gains access to it.
Like if you left your windows/doors open and/or car keys in the car or engine running and someone without licenses got inside and drove it, there is a fine.
During the "Autonomy Day" announcements, I believe Elon Musk said he assumed the company would be liable for any damage caused by driverless vehicles. When the cause of an accident is a manufacturing flaw, the manufacturer is liable. Tesla has been sued several times regarding autopilot, but in all those cases they argued that the product wasn't flawed, it was just missing features that a human driver was expected to provide. I'm not sure what Tesla's expectations of their customers are for this feature. Maybe the owner had to agree to use it only when in line of site and stop it if it was not operating safely.
I think all of the autonomy features Tesla have shipped have requested that the driver monitors them. There's a distinction to be made between this and the eventual autonomy whereby they don't intend on the driver being able to override the car (aka. Robotaxis) when the responsibility would shift from driver to company.
This feature is a little different though. You have no way of immediately gaining control of the vehicle. Your only possible action is top summoning, which may not stop the chain of events that lead to an accident. They have argued that people sitting in a vehicle should be required to anticipate and prevent accidents, but it seems like a stretch to expect the same of someone standing at a curb with nothing but an off switch.
Doesn't look like, from the admittedly short video, that there's too much confusion from the people around it, other than the lady near the stop sign at the end, and that seems only because she's trying to decide if the car is going to stop for her.
And that was likely the best short clip that would somehow fit the headline. The car is so slow and timid, it looks more confused than the people walking by.
“Driverless” is going to see a fast and final end when a small child gets killed by one of these robots and the owner, manufacturer, and every insurance company within throwing distance gets a billion dollar lawsuit judgement.
There is much hubris going around about AI and machine vision with business people and grad students taking lives into their hands and not seriously handling the responsibility.
Kill people ..learn from their deaths...deploy ..kill more people and learn from their deaths..deploy the latest...rinse and repeat until maybe decades later these robots are safer then human drivers.
No one is going to get a billion dollar judgement over a death from a self-driving car. If you think every tech company working on a driverless system doesn't have an entire legal team behind them waiving away liabilities then I have a bridge to sell you.
Having a great legal team doesn't mean you can't lose billions of dollars in court; as Monsanto/Bayer recently found out. The jury may not look favorably upon tech companies.
That's not an equal comparison unless you know of some internal leaked Tesla documents that show criminal negligence like in the RoundUp cases. Considering that every self-driving feature of a Tesla requires you to affirm that you accept responsibility for the car's actions, there would need to be intent shown on Tesla's part in order for something like that to be paid out. Even in the RoundUp cases, Monsanto is appealing.
I have a Tesla, and summon has always scared me. I've never used it. I never plan to use this "smart summon" either.
The only thing that has made me think about enabling summon is that in order to be able to remotely open your garage door via the Tesla app, using the transceiver in the car, you must have Summon enabled. Being able to open the garage door from thousands of miles away would be quite handy in case a family member was locked out. But I still haven't done it.
59 comments
[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 113 ms ] thread- pocket unlock phone
- pocket open tesla app
- pocket scroll down to Summon
- pocket click Summon
- pocket select "Smart Summon" from within the Summon screen
- pocket click the target button on the map
- pocket hold down the "come to me" button continuously
All this while being within 200ft of the car.
what if somebody throws themselves into the tesla?
I imagine it would be the same.
Of course many in the media took the video and created a headline which was VERY misleading.. "Tesla smart summon gets into accident"... while yes, that is true, it was no fault of the Tesla doing smart summon.
> In the recent incident in Richmond, thankfully, there was no accident. Had an accident occurred, the vehicle owner's insurance may not have provided coverage.
I don't think anyone disagrees that the vehicle's driver is liable (regardless of physically being in the vehicle or using summon). The issue here seems to be if that is legal at all and if it is legal if insurance would cover that liability.
Plus what happens if a third party activates summon, for example a toddler? Is the toddler now legal liable for any accidents? Is the owner of the car? Is the child's parent/guardian (even if they weren't physically there)? Lots of interesting legal edge cases to explore.
Imagine you're driving along the road, see a pedestrian crossing and see a pedestrian on it. You hit the brake but brake doesn't work, because of the manufacturing flaw (later one they will issue a recall but not just yet) so you hit someone. I think it is pretty obvious that manufacturer of the car is liable in this case. Although you still get into trouble, all the investigation, courts, etc.
> Plus what happens if a third party activates summon, for example a toddler.
In Australia, in NSW, you're responsible if you didn't take the precautions necessary and someone, who's not supposed to drive your car, gains access to it.
Like if you left your windows/doors open and/or car keys in the car or engine running and someone without licenses got inside and drove it, there is a fine.
You need to be within viewing distance of your car.
You press the button on the app. When you release it, the car stops immediately. This bonehead clearly wasn't doing that.
More FUD on the inevitable future. Keep it up, you horse and buggy lovers.
[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1646475,-123.1373743,18z
The fact that there is no driver visible might be a bigger challenge for self driving vehicles and its acceptance.
https://talkingpointz.com/johnny-cab/
There is much hubris going around about AI and machine vision with business people and grad students taking lives into their hands and not seriously handling the responsibility.
Progress is going to be a killer!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jury-awards-couple-2billion-mon...
I am absolutely positive that it is illegal to drive on the wrong side of the road in Canada.
Was this really the only legal expert they could find?
I retract my claim. Thanks.
The only thing that has made me think about enabling summon is that in order to be able to remotely open your garage door via the Tesla app, using the transceiver in the car, you must have Summon enabled. Being able to open the garage door from thousands of miles away would be quite handy in case a family member was locked out. But I still haven't done it.