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German Church Tax

6 points by thecleaner ↗ HN
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

Apparently even if you list any religion, Germany will collect a church tax from you if you list ANY religion. So people moving to Germany, when registering yourself at the city, tell them you are an atheist or it will cost you dearly. Also if you want to get out of it, you fill up a form which costs 30 euros and it takes another two months to go away.

16 comments

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mtmail
> if you want to get out of it

Note you're not just getting out of the tax, you're getting out of your church (or equivalent depending on religion). To take Catholic Church for example you can no longer get married in a church, cannot get a church funeral, can't be the godfather of a child or such.

The 30 Euro is just burocracy since the decision gets notarised. Same cost if you get married, a little less to get proof of residency. It's not meant as deterrent.

Personally I'd prefer state and church to be more separate here, even if it means double bookkeeping and extra cost (the Churches would have to deal with all the monthly money transactions). But the Wikipedia article goes into the historical context and it's unlikely to go away soon.

thecleaner
Yes but people seem to have a religion other than Christianity. I guess the government is a bit unaware of the fact.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
detaro
Church tax is only collected if the matching religious group has asked the state to do so. Non-christian churches can do so too, and if you're not a member of any of these you don't pay church tax.
leipert
FYI: The state keeps a percentage of the tax as an administrative fee as well. Each federal state apparently keeps 2 to 4.5% percent of the tax as an administration fee.

So the state is basically the collector of said tax.

be_kul
But don't worry: Catholic and Protestant Churches will get your tax money anyway: Since Napoleon – yes: THE Napoleon! – Germans pay a "compensation" for the riches taken from the churches then (which they, of course, had taken first from the people…). It is still paid today by the state, even though already the German constitution of the "Republic of Weimar" (i.e. 1919-1933) demanded that these payments should be stopped. The money coming from all tax payers (yes, muslims, buddhists, atheists … too!) is taken, e.g., to pay the bishops of the two major churches and the cardinals. They get a free appartement, a free car with a driver and a salary near 10,000 €/Month. Go figure that!!

(signed by an angry German)

be_kul
PS: We, every tax payer, even pay for the "frankincense" in catholic church rituals and for many more persons in the church hierarchy, not only bishops. These do not only get "near 10,000" as I wrote, but 13,000 €/month = > 14,300$. Per Month! And: They don't pay into the state's pension system (~19% per month), only pay 50% for health insurance, and the free car they get is usually a S-class mercedes now (used to be an E-class some 10 years ago). So, all in all (including their appartements in best locations), these persons cost ALL tax payers some 20-30,000 €/month! Back in 2010 the tax payers paid some 442,000,000 €/year. That should now be close to 500,000,000…
thecleaner
I have no idea why you're getting down-voted. It is unlikely for average Germans to have a salary of 10000Euros a month. Not even for people working in lucrative fields such as software. On top of all this, the government just gives out money to some other institution while working class people bear so much of the burden. This is harassment.
Tomte
> The money coming from all tax payers (yes, muslims, buddhists, atheists … too!) is taken

Wrong.

> They get a free appartement, a free car with a driver and a salary near 10,000 €/Month

I guess you should leave the Catholic church then. Oh, you're not a member? Why should you have a say in what salary Catholics find adequate?

be_kul
You got it wrong. What I listed is NOT what church goers pay for with their "church tax". It is paid by the State from the tax paid by ALL tax payers in the country, be their religious or not (like me). AND: The entire sum (e.g. for tax evations granted to the churches by the state) is 20.6 billion (yes, 20,600,000,000) €/year! But … they take care of our children in Kindergartens (2% paid by the church, the rest by the tax payers) with so much love and devotion, you know … maybe I should think: It's worth it. But I can't.
Tomte
> if you list ANY religion

That's deceptive. The tax form lists several churches that have decided to let the state collect their "membership dues". Many churches and denominations have declined to do so, and you won't find them on the tax form. You simply tick "none" if you're not a member of those specifically listed churches. And if you are, well, you owe that money to the church. You're free to leave that church.

Having tithes collected by the state is a breach in the separation of church and state (for historical reasons), but it's not like the churches have no choice.

Tomte
Wikipedia lists the following churches as participating:

* The Protestant Church (the "big one", there are myriads of small protestant free churches, especially in southern Germany – none of which participates)

* The Catholic Church

* The Old Catholics

* "Free Religion Congregations" (a special group)

* The Unitarians

* The Jewish congregations

It also lists twenty-two churches that don't let the state collect money on their behalf, including the Methodists, the Salvation Army, Mormons, some Pentecostal church, Alevits, Muslims and so on).

leipert
> it takes another two months to go away

That is not true anymore. When you go to the authorities and "leave the church", then the next month will not have the tax on your pay slip. If it does, you should be able to claim it in your next tax returns.

In the past there was a so called "Reuemonat" / repentance month, but that is not true anymore, as it has been abolished in 2014.

shabirgilkar
Can a person following other religion i.e. Muslim opt out of it?
romanovcode
Muslims don't pay church tax. Germany plans to introduce Mosque tax very soon and disallow external entities e.g. U.A.E. to "donate" into German mosques.

More integrated muslims are in favor of this, also more integrated muslims do not even identify as such and have no religion. Less integrated are opposed because they don't want to pay.