87 comments

[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 181 ms ] thread
What's the solution? I've felt brain fog for 15 years.
Look into reducing inflammation. There are a number of foods that are supposed to be beneficial. I believe avoiding corporate grain products may also help.
I've had issues like that:

Buy hydrolyzed collagen supplements (take 30g per day at start for 1 week) and increase fat intake, simplest is beef tallow (ideally grassfed), eat 2x 5 table spoons of it per day for 5 days at start.

And cut all processed sugar and sweets.

Replace table sugar and fructose with glucose.

A whole (organic) chicken in a pot, cooked until the cartilage liquefies, is similar to this suggestion IMO
Ketogenic (including carnivore) diet will greatly reduce inflammation. You'll also want to do an Igg food sensitivity test to see what specific foods your body is creating inflammatory markers for, and a microbiome test can also let you know if bacterial/yeast infections that could be adding to brain fog.

Fasting is useful for seeing how your mental state is while limiting external food resources (you're using internal fat reserves otherwise), otherwise intermittent fasting is the best option.

It seems that in practice the issue is not keto vs vegan vs omnivore but that all of those proponents of extreme diets like full vegan or full carnivore usually measure their food intake carefully to ensure they get enough of all macros (carbs, fat, protein).

This measuring alone ensures that they get enough fats, which seem to be the main reason for brain fog in most people (combined with too much artifical sweets).

Also because of this extreme diet they completely throw all all processed food & artifical sugar/sweets.

You're close to right. The "vegan honeymoon" - as an example - is an example of why many people will feel better cutting out bad foods, however carbohydrates and sugars are some of the largest inflammatory factors from my understanding, so cutting that out will help. Following vegan or omnivore doesn't mean eating a balanced (carbs, fat, protein) diet nor anti-inflammatory, doesn't mean eating a diet specifically that is healthy for your body either - doesn't remove foods you may individually be sensitive to.
Seems like IGG doesn’t have the best reputation...
Just like fat didn't have a good reputation for awhile due to X, Y, Z - be weary of your sources.

I use my own experience with Igg food sensitivity testing and removing those foods to see how I felt after. After allowing my system to calm from the foods then reintroducing just one of the foods that I was conditioned to the discomfort of, it let me see how much discomfort/pain different foods that showed up on the Igg test that make me feel horrible.

Fasting would just make me irritable and hungry. I don't think I'm the only one that would experience that
You get used to it remarkably quickly. The problem is getting over the hump (and also, knowing there is a hump).

Buddhist monks are not supposed to eat after noon, although some cheat by adding a lot of sugar to their evening tea or coffee. This is supposed to keep their minds sharp and clear and aid in meditation. It appears to be a well-tested rule.

Are animal proteins not a source of inflammation? It's quite well studied.
Obviously this is anecdotal, but I've been fasting for about a month, and I've noticed a significant difference between the days I fast and the days I don't (FRIDAYS!!!). After about 16-18 hours of not eating I feel quite sharp. There seems to be preliminary clinical evidence to support this, but I'll leave the googling to you.
I've experienced similar effects with intermittent fasting. I started cutting out the breakfast and after a while my mind was super clear in the morning. Eating lunch caused that to flip around drastically, though.
I'm glad you mentioned IF. It's one of the easier ways to get many of the keto benefits without having to do keto.
I’ve had the same experience, but feeling sharper doesn’t mean actually being sharper. If you look at traffic accident rates in Muslim majority countries, there’s a sharp rise in incidents during the fasting months of Ramadan.
Ramadan involves a number of societal changes beyond just not eating during daylight hours, from fasting to abstinence to busier public squares and restaurants. I'd want to see something control for the differences in movement patterns, passenger miles driven, meals eaten outside the home vs. at home, and so on. Public squares and restaurants are typically packed during Ramadan at night.

Here's one (theoretically) similar example:

https://www.datagraver.com/case/relation-terrorism-attacks-a...

Fasting during Ramadan is not the same as IF at all. During Ramadan you can't have even a sip of water, whereas in IF you are encouraged to drink water and even add a bit of salt if needed. That alone makes them too different to compare effects.
That’s a very good point and not something I had considered. Still, I am curious as to how the feeling of sharpness translates to actual performance.
The most obvious culprit is the lack of sleep, since feeding can only be done at night.
Without going to a "name brand" diet (keto, vegan, or whatever), just pay attention to what you eat and what your brain feels like a few hours afterword. I found some foods (certain chocolates, unfortunately) where, somewhat less than an hour after I ate it, it felt like someone had kicked my brain.

When you notice something like that, stop eating it. You may be able to add it back in small quantities later, but for now, just stop.

When you've identified the major ones and stopped eating them, then take stock of where you are. Is it enough? Or do you want to go further?

We started being very careful what we eat because one of my daughters had extreme food sensitivities. I said "Nah, not me, I'm good". But I felt a lot better/less mentally foggy as well.

High (10g+) doses of omega-3 (mostly as EPA) are extremely effective and clinically proven.

Standard doses are way too small to be effective, and most of the science and anecdotes refer to small (1-3g) doses.

talk to a doctor and, if you are lucky, they find something they can cure. If you are unlucky, they find nothing. If you are really unlucky, you find something like an autoimmune disorder - lots of autoimmune disorders get both some inflammation and 'brain fog' or other cognitive issues.

All the diets folks recommend are not really proven to help with things like autoimmune disorders (even though some folks swear by them). If it were that simple, it would be standard treatment and no one would go through the side effects that some of the medicines for autoimmune disorders have. I don't know how effective the diets and supplements are for other things, but I'd not trust it unless it came from the mouth of a medical doctor I trusted.

No. Docs have no clue about these sort of things. They are good for "leg broken, must fix leg". They suck at chronic and ambiguous illnesses. In the US, you can try the Mayo Clinic, they have specialists. Otherwise, help yourself.
Unfortunately, that's really true. I have a doctor friend that looked at me like a deer in headlights when I asked about fatigue, brain fog, inflammation, food sensitivities, etc..
Because.. internists don't exist as primary care doctors? Because the start of getting diagnosed with chronic illnesses doesn't start with a primary care doctor?

OR because insurances and governments aren't interested in not spending thousands of dollars per month per patient on autoimmune medicines when a simple diet change could do the same thing?

There are more players than doctors. Folks go to specialists all the freaking time for their disorders, but not all disorders need that. You'll probably be just fine going to the normal doctor for type II diabetes. You'll probably go to a neurologist for your MS. Not all disorders need something like the Mayo Clinic. When we suck, we simply suck and that includes the Mayo Clinic and similar clinics.

None of this changes the fact that there isn't evidence that diet helps in the long run for a lot of disorders. Staying generally healthy helps, sure, but saying anything else dupes folks into trying a bunch of weird, non-approved things and buying into snake oils.

> Staying generally healthy helps

Its that easy huh. I'm afraid you got it exactly backwards. Snake oil is the last resort of people who are not being helped by the medical system. People don't love going from one doc to another, being told that "its probably psychological". Countless tests are not great even if they don't bankrupt you. I'm not saying its easy! Most doctors aren't even remotely trained for this, and they don't have the time per patient. Its a difficult task.

What we need are special doctors for chronic diseases. There is a department at a German university (Heidelberg I think), which is being subsidised by the other things they do. They have good successes, helping people that could not be helped for years, but the waiting list is very very very long.

Generally healthy: You can have a chronic disease and work on being generally healthy. Eat a varied diet. Exercise as you can. Don't smoke. I should mention at this point that I have a chronic disease - MS. There is no cure. But all that stuff helps people's outcome. The special diets do not.

There are special doctors for some chronic diseases - like MS. Most folks go to a normal neurologist, and a few are lucky enough to have some specialists near them. I have nurses that are specialized that I see more than the neurologist as it helps the neurologist see more folks.

That said, not all chronic diseases and conditions need a specialist. Type 2 diabetes is a chronic condition. High blood pressure is a chronic condition (and not always caused by diet/exercise). Depression is chronic. The thing is that some of these are common enough that it is pretty easy for a doctor to know about them. If you are lucky, you see an internist, who specialises in adult general medicine.

Not all chronic diseases and conditions are things that are puzzling either. There is no reason for most folks to see these sorts of specialists, but I wish they were more available for folks that need them. This is a pretty slim portion of patients, though. Some diseases we don't know much about, and we need science to help. I've donated spinal fluid to help things along and I'll donate my body to science after whatever organ donation they'll let me do. I urge others to do similar stuff, and this is why I both want medical records digital and want them to be searchable by researchers. For everyone that doesn't specifically opt out, anyway.

Most of the tests you mention? Yeah, if you are going to see a specialist, they are going to do the tests. Medicine is a profession of puzzles. You take vague symptoms that could have many causes and do tests to rule things out.

I have conclusive evidence (sample size 1)that keto reduces inflammation from my AS. The blood tests don't lie but its far from being a cure.
Have you been tested for celiac disease?
Unrelated to diet but still could be helpful with brain fog: Have you ever been tested for sleep apnea? I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea over a decade ago and was prescribed a CPAP machine. Although it took some getting used to. Getting effective sleep has helped me.
Keto worked for me. The difference is remarkable.
I had vitamin D deficiency that was the cause of my brain fog. I'm not yet back to full power, but the last 3 months of taking it have definitely been better than before.
nobody has mentioned exercise.

I remember the study with the "rats in a sterile environment" vs "rats in a rich environment" where the latter group formed many more brain connections.

In the end, they found it wasn't the rich environment that caused the brain growth, it was the exercise wheel in it.

Be careful with the exercise remedy. It's easy to overdue it and cause more inflammation and stress via elevated cortisols, etc..
Before trying various changes which takes a long time to se through consider measuring things you can actually test:

1. Sleep study.

2. Vitamin D blood test.

3. Generally a conversation with your doctor who might suggest other tests.

I would try intermittent fasting for a while. If you feel better, it means it could be exacerbated by something you're eating. Then it's a just a process of elimination.
It was another set of symptoms - skin rash like chicken pox - that helped me find my celiac / gluten free diagnosis.

However, the brain fog went away. Brain fog is a common reason people try gluten free or low carb (keto, Meng, etc).

Good luck.

I use sauna; 10-15 minutes in hot, followed by a short break (1-2 minutes), then up to 2 minutes immersed in cold water. Repeat 5-6x. I feel like a new person afterwards, total mental clarity and many ideas immediately. Also removes stress. It might take you a few months to get adapted to that cycle though (2-minute cold immersion is not trivial at first). If you start feeling bad, abort, you can try next time.
If knowingly taking a placebo can affect a person, I have no doubt that the ritual you described can also have an effect.
Heat shock forces some cells or proteins to rejuvenate themselves. Dr Rhonda Patrick and the anti-aging guy have talked about similar ideas for hours in depth on joe rogan's podcast but I never remember the details in full.
This came from trial and error from about 6 months of trying different things in sauna. Just heating myself multiple times in hot sauna didn't work that well, but once I started to rigorously follow >1 minute cold water immersions, after 3-4x cycles I almost always ended up in a stress-less state of mental clarity (not when I felt bad/sick or didn't sleep well though). After ~4 cold immersions I also look like my skin was full of veins, connected red patches over white patches everywhere. YMMV
This is no joke. After a shower, I turn off the hot water and just stand there under the cold water for a while. It makes a big difference for me. So does not eating late.
I stopped eating anything with added sugar and my brain fog lifted after about a week. Now I get headaches if I eat sugar (Berries are good, it’s just stuff with sugar added to it that messes me up).
One thing would be to get rid of as many fragranced products as you can. It's amazing how many people live 24/7 without ever truly breathing fresh air. This would be especially had with fragranced dryer sheets, as the residual fragrance will last through many washings. New mattresses are also notoriously toxic.
I've become convinced a lot of what we now consider mental illnesses are actually symptoms caused by unknown pathogens. Inflammation plays a big part in this.
There’s a strong link between the common cold sore (Herpes simplex virus type 1) and amyloid beta buildup in the brain, which accumulates and severely impacts cognition. It’s estimated that around 67% of the entire world’s population has HSV-1. When your immune system weakens and the virus activates and comes out of dormancy, your body starts to pump out these amyloids to “protect” itself against the virus. The issue is that high levels of this peptide buildup leads to Alzheimers like symptoms. Over time, if you have poor sleep hygiene or under a lot of stress, the buildup reaches a point of significant aggregation causing “brain fog,” even without a confirmed diagnosis of Alzheimers. This is just my theory though. I’m not a doctor. It’s just my 2 cents.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953363/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/14787210.2014.8...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26836158/

To add on this. I believe Alzheimer’s is a set of symptoms causes by different bacteria and viruses. Not a disease in itself. And not one single virus or bacteria. See also the recent found link between Alzheimer's and dental bacteria. Or the link between Alzheimer’s and Lyme disease. Like this misdiagnosis: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kris-kristofferson-misdiagnosed...

And this:

>In Miklossy’s work, Borrelia burgdorferi—the species of spirochete that causes Lyme, was identified in 451 out of the 495 Alzheimer’s-riddled brains they examined. Yet, her work at the time was derived by other researchers and until recently, she had difficulty securing funding.

https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/could-a-pathogen-be-the-ca...

  derived by other researchers
Did they mean to write "derided by other researchers"?
I'm also convinced of the same thing, I don't know enough about biology, but I have days where I feel like the only thing that could be causing certain emotions is an infection that I don't know about.

For example, I use to feel tired all the time, and I would get sick all the time. I swear I could "feel" that my immune system sucked and I constantly had to fight things off.

Now I feel like my immune system is stronger, and it shows because I get sick so less often. My brain fog is basically gone and my energy levels are a lot higher. Every now and then it comes back, but recently I always wondered:

Is there a set of anti-biotics, anti-parasitical, anti-viral drugs that you could take in a row to try to flush the body of any infections? There's been similar comments about HSV1, that a lot of people have, but there's also Toxoplasmosis. If you look into it, so many people have both of these infections, but what are the side effects on the body?

I think immune system is one part of the picture. I also think your bodies natural response to the environment has something to do with this. I've been way more social and have gotten WAY better social feedback from all angles in my life (positive feedback loop) and that has helped immensely with mood and feeling good all the time.

When you combine a lot of these things, such as: poor immune system, conflicted social life, bad diet, and lack of exercise, I could see how the combination could manifest its self into mental illness.

I'm still convinced pathogens have a high ranking in the cause of brain fog and emotional issues tho, social life being second, diet third and surprisingly exercise being last even though I initially thought it was number 1. It just made me feel good, but it didn't really get to the root of any issue for some reason.

Flushing your body with antibiotics will have a lot more side effects and lead to way more significant brainfog.

Many even go as far as associating the onset of their "idiopathic chronic fatigue" with a specific instance they used an antibiotic.

>Is there a set of anti-biotics, anti-parasitical, anti-viral drugs that you could take in a row to try to flush the body of any infections?

My uninformed guess is no, they probably lower your immune systems defenses.

What you can do is work on your sleep hygiene, work out more, and eat lots of vegetables. Reduce milk, red meat, alcohol and caffeine. Basically anything that's known to cause inflammation (milk and meat) and bad sleep (alcohol and caffeine).

> Reduce milk

Have you got a source for that assertion? A brief search yields contrary evidence[1], unless you limit your audience to those allergic to bovine milk.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26287637/

The issue with the antibiotics is that they will screw up your microbiome which will have negative effects on its own until it naturally builds back up
I've long been convinced that it's due to the routine chemical exposures that we accept as normal. It's difficult to go anywhere in the US without being exposed to hundreds of chemicals offgasing from products and people.
The human body just cannot get sick by itself without the impacts coming from external agents. In that sense, all illnesses are linked to some pathogens, and inflammation is simply a reaction of our immune system fighting them off. In my opinion, a lot of illnesses are really just a form of autoimmune disease. Our body must have been fighting some unknown pathogens for a really long time and without our awareness, eventually it just succumbed and triggered those conditions.
Possibly dumb question: could NSAID painkiller’s like ibuprofen counter this type of inflammation? Or is that unknown at this time?
NSAIDs are by definition anti-inflammatory, so yes. But there are potential downsides to their long-term use, e.g. ibuprofen is linked with increased risk of heart attack and aspirin is ototoxic. Both can cause gastric problems.
I’ve found that turmeric extract in capsules can help quite a bit with inflammation and even brain fog
What does inflammation mean in this case (i.e., what part of the body is being inflamed)?
Inflammation can occur all over the body, it's a central part of the immune response, triggered for example by pathogens, damaged cells or toxic compounds. The type of inflammation that correlates with more and more (mental) disease is usually in relation to chronic inflammation, meaning the normally healthy immune response doesn't return to baseline and starts harming the body. This can occur because of chronic stress, obesity, a dysfunctional gut microbiome, chronic infections or as side effect of medical treatments, amongst other, and probably a lot of unknown, causes.
Asian cultures have known about this link for a long time and their diets reflect that. Hot and cold foods aren't just related to temperature.
Can you clarify and quantify that statement? I'm not sure what you mean by Hot and Cold foods and temperature? And how are each integrated into the overall diet? Is there any information you could point us too?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_food_therapy

Of course, the notion that there's a correlation between what you consume and what your body exhibits is common to pretty much every culture, including modern culture. Likewise for classes of foods correlating with classes of ailments.

The devil is in the details--what's the particular effect, if any, of a particular ingredient or mix or ingredients. Rarely do the claims and the reality line up in a rigorous, medically significant manner. But like with religion, the classes of foods and ailments are susceptible to very liberal interpretation, and lend themselves to equivocation with whatever correlation may actually exist. And because foods obviously can and do have significant health effects, opportunities for coincidental relationships abound.

That said, modern food science isn't particularly rigorous either, relies on its own gross generalizations and fallacies, and even shares some with folk medicine--most infamously, the supposed relationship of salt and saturated fat consumption to hypertension and cholesterol, respectively, exhibit many of the same classic errors you see in folk medicine.

There's nothing remotely scientific about this.
As someone with sinus allergies, I wonder if this could be partially attributed to things like airflow.
I felt mildly feverish and had aches. I also slept poorly because of narrow passages causing brain fog. Then I had FESS which cleared the chronic infection. Now I sleep better and almost got rid of brain fog.
To everyone who wants to do keto - keep an eye on your renal function and acidity. Keto in general is good, but may damage your kidneys in some (uncommon) cases.
"For example, people living with a medical condition or being very overweight might complain of cognitive impairment, but it’s hard to tell if that’s due to the inflammation associated with these conditions or if there are other reasons.”"

Is this study proof inflammation is the root cause, or that it correlates with other symptom.

I can here it now, "Obesity isn't my problem, inflammation is." Or "It's not my lifestyle. I don't need to exercise and/or eat well. My problem is inflammation."

Exercise and diet are proven to reduce inflammation.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/315255.php

Good news is, just 20 minutes of exercise is enough to reduce inflammation.

Exercise might help, but a change of diet will help a lot more.
Both of these are equally important. Diet and exercise are 2 sides of the same coin. This is why they are usually mentioned together using a conjunction when one gives health advice.

Exercise has direct impact on inflammation markers (initially increases them, but suppresses them over longer timescales), and also helps substantially with nutrient uptake + digestion. You may also find that you crave healthier food options immediately after having just completed an arduous workout.

In my experience, the best approach for keeping inflammation under control and generally being in the best mental state possible is to exercise every morning while fasted, and then eat 1 big meal sometime in the afternoon. This approach ensures your body experiences a shift in metabolic modes on a daily basis, and makes it a much more seamless experience as you shift between them (assuming you stay consistent). I feel that being in a ketogenic state (i.e. right after you complete your fasted exercise session and before you eat your big meal) yields countless health benefits. And, if you can essentially guarantee that you experience this mode for 4+ hours every day, whatever benefits it may confer should be substantially realized.

Can you elaborate more on " You may also find that you crave healthier food options immediately after having just completed an arduous workout.".

I actually found myself less attracted to junk food after working out but I am not aware that there is a connection behind.