What the man missed, is an absolutely humongous chunk of supply chain dedicated to recycling and remarketing that exists completely out of sight fo
. This is what you don't see nearly at all while living in the West, thanks to efforts of big brands.
Back 12 years ago, Malaysia was a global centre for refurbishment and recycling of electronics, before the crown went to China.
I still have a prehistoric Sony Ericsson w880i, that I bought from a refurbisher in Malaysia for a third of a retail price in the West back in 2007.
I was amazed how quickly goods go through the cycle. That phone was just a 6 months old model, and it being sold for a third of original price meant that somebody in the West must've bought, used, and threw it away in that time...
This is the way how most high value goods are reaching the global south, and big brands are trying hard to keep that side of supply chain out of your (people in the West) sight.
Apple for example wages an unending holy war against refurbishers of Apple laptops and phones, using every trick available. Apple effectively bribed Alibaba to delist their refurbished laptops back in 2010. Sony was also very big on that too.
Luxury brands, and such go even further. Some of them sneakily run operations to scour second hand markets off their goods, and some even destroy them after.
Aren’t these artificial market manipulations exactly what makes luxurious goods scarce? It’s not like they’re hiding the fact that they’re a luxury product.
It is an interesting perspective on what Luxury goods of the mass manufactured kind may look like in the future.
I've read that a luxury bag maker burns unsold products just to maintain the exclusivity. It's like lighting a cigar with a 100 dollar note, sadly even for the super rich they only have 1 planet and they have to share with the rest of us. (Or maybe the 0.01% has other ideas about sharing?)
Considering the multitudes of other ways in which the very wealthy wreck the environment, I would say that sustaining the luxury bag industry ranks very lowly. Lets say: the private jet industry.
Between Backmarket and Amazon Renewed, I believe we’re seeing a resurgence in refurbished electronics. Note also that a lot of consumer electronics brands refurbish their devices to use for warranty replacements rather than using new stock or selling the refurbs.
I think that describing Alibaba/AliExpress and the Shenzhen electronics markets as two different things rather hides reality .... Many of those little online stores on AliExpress and the stalls in the Shenzhen markets are just two views of the same thing ... Come 5pm in Shenzhen, all you can hear is the ripping of the beige packing tape as all the stalls pack up their online sales of the day ....
That’s how the E-markets in Beijing’s Zhongguangcun evolved, but eventually the physical stores are becoming redundant and the number of stalls have shrunk dramatically in the last few years.
Honestly, I think you have to go back to Akihabara these days to get the authentic electronic potpourri part experience.
I visited Akihabara a year or so ago and (compared with Shenzhen) was quite disappointed - mostly it's Manga glitz, not a lot of electronics at all, you had to hunt to find it.
Huaqiangbei is changing, gentrifying a bit (especially SEG) starting to sell consumer drones rather than cables - partly it's because now that all the subway work in the street outside is done the on-street stores are all consumer electronics stuff which is creeping inwards. But a block over really nothing much has changed.
The one thing you can find in Japan that you can’t really find in China is used stuff, old stuff, and somethingS that aren’t meant for mass production. Akhibara still has that advantage, plus they mix the electronic work stuff with the computer hardware (in China, these things usually exist in separate buildings, if not districts).
There used to be readily available parts for almost every mobile device out there (some "real" some knockoff), but it's much more limited now. Many buildings that were full or had full service repair/upgrade services are half empty on some floors, and now send things out. Of course, if you're willing to send your phone out you can get things done quickly and cheaply as well, but it's not the same as seeing it in front of you.
It's been very noticeable over the last 3-4 years.
I’m fascinated by the markets of Huaqiangbei (Shenzhen) although my only exposure have been through the YouTube channel Strange Parts. The enormity of the market is shocking and I cannot think of a better place for hardware innovation.
It’s somewhere I’d really like to travel one of these days.
From what I’ve seen, and also experienced, the expats who were genuinely friendly have not experienced any anti-western feelings.
It’s more like in the past, the locals would often defer to western expats and basically put us on a pedestal.
Now, especially with the younger generation, that deference is gone. They treat western expats as any other normal person.
The expats that we’re once used to a certain level of obedience are no longer comfortable with this new assertiveness and see it as anti-western feelings.
Whereas those of us that were never cared for that in the first place, don’t experience anything different.
I think this is also evident in the type of Youtubers that either remained or left China.
Almost long term expats (~10 years) I knew left just because of the air pollution (that being Beijing rather than much cleaner Shenzhen). Anti westerner feelings never really got to us, but as tech workers we were never involved in politics anyways. Missionaries masquerading as English teachers probably had it much worse.
It did suck that I could never get permanent residence or even just a longer than one year visa after being there for 9 years. We were always expected to leave.
Problem with Scotty is that he paints a rosy picture of all of his adventures. Unlike EEVBlog, he never criticizes Chinese manufacturing practices nor says a single thing that may offend his fan base.
This is a worrying, I’m conspiring that he won’t be welcomed in China, perhaps afraid of angering CCP gods. That may not be true but it’s hard to imagine otherwise.
Plus, he is sponsored by suppliers in China (PCBWay for e.g.). What good is content without objectivity?
I'm not him, but if I were, I would respond that my YouTube is about hardware hacks and not politics.
Or do you expect car reviewers to bemoan the fact that ICE cars are killing the planet or how SUVs are ego extensions? Do you expect tourism content to talk about the impact of tourism to the environment? If you do, well, there are probably YouTubers who talk about all that (just like this Medium article is talking about the cost of consumerism), but you can't demand that every content maker talk about what you want just because there's a connection.
Objectivity is a lie. I want to do a video about this at some point, but in learning to make videos, I’ve learned there’s no way to tell an unbiased story.
That being said, I’ll be the first to admit my videos are biased.
There’s tons of China bashing in the world. Some of it deserved, a lot of it not. There are a lot of very lazy journalists in the world that follow very old narratives about China because they’re too lazy and overworked to go find new ones.
I could choose to follow these narratives and give viewers what they expect to hear about China. But I think it’s far more interesting and useful to the world to talk about the parts people _haven’t_ heard yet. The parts that I think are cool and amazing and exciting. All of that is real and genuine.
I’m also definitely afraid of angering the CCP gods. I’m also careful to not put anyone in harms way because of something I showed in one of my videos. And I don’t think it’s fair to shit all over a factory who has invited me in as their guest.
I feel like I walk a very fine line with what I show. I think there’s more value to be had by continuing to have access to show an authentic view of what China and Chinese factories are like, even if I can’t always directly comment on it.
The alternative is potentially showing one or two really critical things that are already being covered well by more traditional outlets, and then never being allowed back. Which seems like a huge waste of an opportunity to create some good in the world.
As for factories sponsoring videos, I turn down far more than I accept. Those videos are intended to be about how things are made and how factories work, not reviews or advertisements of a given factory. I could make that same video at a number of factories. They offer to pay to be the factory in shoot it at because it gets them a lot of useful visibility. I insist on having full creative control over the video. The only input they have is what’s confidential that I can’t show on camera (usually just customer designs or logos). If a factory is bad, or makes a bad product, I won’t accept the sponsorship. But I’m not going to go to a factory, sponsored or not, and then badmouth them. That’s rude, and would quickly mean I wouldn’t be invited to other factories to make the educational content I’m so excited to make.
Or science wouldn’t exist. Truth is objectivity. Scientific method depends on objectivity and being able to criticize. Facts are facts, when it’s time to state your opinion, you can preface that that’s your opinion.
I’m afraid that you’ll spread the message that nothing is objective in the world and nothing can be trusted.
Educational part is great in your videos.
I’m just sad reading your response because I’m was an expat in China and what you show is just one side of the coin. And the fact that you admit that you’re afraid of angering CCP members - isn’t that terrifying to you?
Can you imagine only making positive videos of America and never being able to criticize? You have a responsibility man... you reach millions.
Stories are ALWAYS biased by what the storyteller chooses to show. It impossible to show everything. So what you choose to show is the bias.
Here’s an example: Is Shenzhen an industrial metropolis, or a green leafy jungle? It’s both.
I tend to make videos about the industrial side of Shenzhen, so I tend to choose footage to match that.
When I go walk in the park, I sometimes feel guilty I’m not showing how beautiful it is. That by not showing this side of Shenzhen, I’m presenting a very lopsided version.
But that’s not what people watch my videos for. They’re interested in the industrial side. I’m also not particularly interested in making videos about parks and beautiful landscapes. So I don’t.
“ And the fact that you admit that you’re afraid of angering CCP members - isn’t that terrifying to you?” Yes, of course it is. Why do you think I’m so careful about what I say and show? What do you expect me to do? Speak publicly about it and risk never being allowed back to China? What could I possibly say that’s not already been said by thousands of others?
Instead, I’m trying to make the most of the opportunity I have to say something unique, that few others are saying, and hopefully bring people closer together, rather than further push them apart. We need more of that in the world right now.
I’m here in Shenzhen now, after being in the US all summer. Not really feeling any anti-western feelings so far, though I was worried about that given everything that’s going on with the trade war and Hong Kong. I’ve also only been in Shenzhen a day, and prior to that was insulated in a factory up north shooting for a week, and didn’t really see much of the regularly world outside the factory and hotel.
We’ll see. I’m here for the next few weeks. But right now it feels surprisingly like the Shenzhen and China I’ve gotten to know and love, with all the good and the bad.
That being said, whether I want to really double down on a life in Shenzhen is on my mind right now. It’s difficult being a foreigner here, for lots of different reasons. Everything is harder if you’re not a Chinese citizen and don’t have a chinese id card. There’s no path to being allowed to stay in China permanently, so the rug could be pulled out from underneath you at any moment. There’s also just simple quality of life things. It’s harder to eat healthy food here. Shenzhen, like San Francisco, is a place people come to seek their fortune. Which makes it very transient, and a hard place to build long term friendships.
But yeah, so far, my read is that there a lot of what’s said about leaving China because of anti-western feelings is made up for views, and that folks left for other reasons. It’s apparently trendy to bash China right now.
It's not hard from Hong Kong (you do need a China Visa) - essentially you take the Hong Kong subway (last bit's really a train, but part of the subway system, light blue line) to Lo Wu, exit the subway, walk thru HKG immigration exit, cross a bridge, thru China immigration, back down into the subway (green line), 5 stops to HQB.
It's worth hunting down one of the Hardware hacker oriented maps like:
26 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 71.5 ms ] thread. This is what you don't see nearly at all while living in the West, thanks to efforts of big brands.
Back 12 years ago, Malaysia was a global centre for refurbishment and recycling of electronics, before the crown went to China.
I still have a prehistoric Sony Ericsson w880i, that I bought from a refurbisher in Malaysia for a third of a retail price in the West back in 2007.
I was amazed how quickly goods go through the cycle. That phone was just a 6 months old model, and it being sold for a third of original price meant that somebody in the West must've bought, used, and threw it away in that time...
This is the way how most high value goods are reaching the global south, and big brands are trying hard to keep that side of supply chain out of your (people in the West) sight.
Apple for example wages an unending holy war against refurbishers of Apple laptops and phones, using every trick available. Apple effectively bribed Alibaba to delist their refurbished laptops back in 2010. Sony was also very big on that too.
Luxury brands, and such go even further. Some of them sneakily run operations to scour second hand markets off their goods, and some even destroy them after.
It is an interesting perspective on what Luxury goods of the mass manufactured kind may look like in the future.
Honestly, I think you have to go back to Akihabara these days to get the authentic electronic potpourri part experience.
Huaqiangbei is changing, gentrifying a bit (especially SEG) starting to sell consumer drones rather than cables - partly it's because now that all the subway work in the street outside is done the on-street stores are all consumer electronics stuff which is creeping inwards. But a block over really nothing much has changed.
There used to be readily available parts for almost every mobile device out there (some "real" some knockoff), but it's much more limited now. Many buildings that were full or had full service repair/upgrade services are half empty on some floors, and now send things out. Of course, if you're willing to send your phone out you can get things done quickly and cheaply as well, but it's not the same as seeing it in front of you.
It's been very noticeable over the last 3-4 years.
It’s somewhere I’d really like to travel one of these days.
Although many of the people of these channels seemed to have left China due to the big surge is anti-western feelings (either real or made-up).
It’s more like in the past, the locals would often defer to western expats and basically put us on a pedestal.
Now, especially with the younger generation, that deference is gone. They treat western expats as any other normal person.
The expats that we’re once used to a certain level of obedience are no longer comfortable with this new assertiveness and see it as anti-western feelings.
Whereas those of us that were never cared for that in the first place, don’t experience anything different.
I think this is also evident in the type of Youtubers that either remained or left China.
It did suck that I could never get permanent residence or even just a longer than one year visa after being there for 9 years. We were always expected to leave.
This is a worrying, I’m conspiring that he won’t be welcomed in China, perhaps afraid of angering CCP gods. That may not be true but it’s hard to imagine otherwise.
Plus, he is sponsored by suppliers in China (PCBWay for e.g.). What good is content without objectivity?
Or do you expect car reviewers to bemoan the fact that ICE cars are killing the planet or how SUVs are ego extensions? Do you expect tourism content to talk about the impact of tourism to the environment? If you do, well, there are probably YouTubers who talk about all that (just like this Medium article is talking about the cost of consumerism), but you can't demand that every content maker talk about what you want just because there's a connection.
That being said, I’ll be the first to admit my videos are biased.
There’s tons of China bashing in the world. Some of it deserved, a lot of it not. There are a lot of very lazy journalists in the world that follow very old narratives about China because they’re too lazy and overworked to go find new ones.
I could choose to follow these narratives and give viewers what they expect to hear about China. But I think it’s far more interesting and useful to the world to talk about the parts people _haven’t_ heard yet. The parts that I think are cool and amazing and exciting. All of that is real and genuine.
I’m also definitely afraid of angering the CCP gods. I’m also careful to not put anyone in harms way because of something I showed in one of my videos. And I don’t think it’s fair to shit all over a factory who has invited me in as their guest.
I feel like I walk a very fine line with what I show. I think there’s more value to be had by continuing to have access to show an authentic view of what China and Chinese factories are like, even if I can’t always directly comment on it.
The alternative is potentially showing one or two really critical things that are already being covered well by more traditional outlets, and then never being allowed back. Which seems like a huge waste of an opportunity to create some good in the world.
As for factories sponsoring videos, I turn down far more than I accept. Those videos are intended to be about how things are made and how factories work, not reviews or advertisements of a given factory. I could make that same video at a number of factories. They offer to pay to be the factory in shoot it at because it gets them a lot of useful visibility. I insist on having full creative control over the video. The only input they have is what’s confidential that I can’t show on camera (usually just customer designs or logos). If a factory is bad, or makes a bad product, I won’t accept the sponsorship. But I’m not going to go to a factory, sponsored or not, and then badmouth them. That’s rude, and would quickly mean I wouldn’t be invited to other factories to make the educational content I’m so excited to make.
> Objectivity is a lie.
Or science wouldn’t exist. Truth is objectivity. Scientific method depends on objectivity and being able to criticize. Facts are facts, when it’s time to state your opinion, you can preface that that’s your opinion.
I’m afraid that you’ll spread the message that nothing is objective in the world and nothing can be trusted.
Educational part is great in your videos.
I’m just sad reading your response because I’m was an expat in China and what you show is just one side of the coin. And the fact that you admit that you’re afraid of angering CCP members - isn’t that terrifying to you?
Can you imagine only making positive videos of America and never being able to criticize? You have a responsibility man... you reach millions.
Objectivity in storytelling/journalism is a lie.
Stories are ALWAYS biased by what the storyteller chooses to show. It impossible to show everything. So what you choose to show is the bias.
Here’s an example: Is Shenzhen an industrial metropolis, or a green leafy jungle? It’s both.
I tend to make videos about the industrial side of Shenzhen, so I tend to choose footage to match that.
When I go walk in the park, I sometimes feel guilty I’m not showing how beautiful it is. That by not showing this side of Shenzhen, I’m presenting a very lopsided version.
But that’s not what people watch my videos for. They’re interested in the industrial side. I’m also not particularly interested in making videos about parks and beautiful landscapes. So I don’t.
“ And the fact that you admit that you’re afraid of angering CCP members - isn’t that terrifying to you?” Yes, of course it is. Why do you think I’m so careful about what I say and show? What do you expect me to do? Speak publicly about it and risk never being allowed back to China? What could I possibly say that’s not already been said by thousands of others?
Instead, I’m trying to make the most of the opportunity I have to say something unique, that few others are saying, and hopefully bring people closer together, rather than further push them apart. We need more of that in the world right now.
We’ll see. I’m here for the next few weeks. But right now it feels surprisingly like the Shenzhen and China I’ve gotten to know and love, with all the good and the bad.
That being said, whether I want to really double down on a life in Shenzhen is on my mind right now. It’s difficult being a foreigner here, for lots of different reasons. Everything is harder if you’re not a Chinese citizen and don’t have a chinese id card. There’s no path to being allowed to stay in China permanently, so the rug could be pulled out from underneath you at any moment. There’s also just simple quality of life things. It’s harder to eat healthy food here. Shenzhen, like San Francisco, is a place people come to seek their fortune. Which makes it very transient, and a hard place to build long term friendships.
But yeah, so far, my read is that there a lot of what’s said about leaving China because of anti-western feelings is made up for views, and that folks left for other reasons. It’s apparently trendy to bash China right now.
It's worth hunting down one of the Hardware hacker oriented maps like:
http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/File:Hqb-map-front.png
or
http://www.seeedstudio.com/document/pdf/Shenzhen%20Map%20for...
rent is high and many of the vendors are moving out to dongguan, guangzhou, or fully online.