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Ask YC: CSS Frameworks

39 points by ssharp ↗ HN
I'm sure some of you out there are using one of the many CSS frameworks available out there. I'm considering plunging into these but wanted to see if anyone here had anything to say about any of them or could recommend one...strengths, weaknesses, etc.

They seem like a great idea but I'd like to hear the thoughts of some people that have used them.

16 comments

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figured
I found that YUI Grids CSS to be very easy to use and extremely robust. Honestly, the fact that they do graded browser support is the main reason I use them.
richesh
Blueprint - http://code.google.com/p/blueprintcss/

We are using this on my startup, so far it has a very good layout system. It is very flexible and configurable for generating unique layouts.

noodle
i also have used blueprint to good success.

the biggest thing that i've seen with css frameworks is that, while they're good and useful, they don't improve productivity as much as other frameworks. they do, just not as much. imo, at least.

tel
I used Blueprint a long time ago, one of the earliest versions, and had a lot of trouble with it. Like any abstraction it's only flexible to a point and I feel like CSS being a presentation language means that that flexibility is hindered and your ability to recover weakened as compared to frameworks in turing complete languages.

That being said I haven't used Blueprint in a long time and I've used CSS longer than I've used any language besides HTML. I'm probably not so much in the intended audience.

run4yourlives
Oops... Wanted to vote you up not down...sorry. Can two people do me the honour of restoring my intent?

Thanks.

bluelu
"Blueprint's default width for all layout is set to 950px consisting of 24 columns (width units)."

Is there something similar that also works with dynamic screen sizes? For example I want to create a two column based layout and make the first coloumn at least 4 to at most 6 width units large and let the last column takeup the rest, depending on current screen size of the user's browser window.

SwellJoe
YUI grids has a fluid width layout, and three fixed width layouts.
raghus
I've used YUI more than once. It's pretty elaborate but for my purposes, I've just used their wizard (http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/grids/builder/) to set up the grid the way I wanted it and it's never given me any trouble. Plus, it works across pretty much across all browsers.
pmsaue0
What is the big deal about the grid layout anyway? If you aren't trying to design a site that has ultra-dense-content on every page like nytimes.com, what's the point? I mean, does everyone have to jock Khoi Vinh so hard? For most sites that aren't so heavy in content, floating content smartly and giving text ample breathing room is usually a sufficient starting point.

The grid system reminds me of Ansel Adams' zone system for photography... it's good for teaching students about the elements of visual balance, but ultimately it's a pedagogical scaffold. IMO when the grid system and the zone system become a heavily used crutch for your design and art, that's when what is created tends toward stodgy and boring.

xenoterracide
I haven't figured out why it's so hard for people to do this by hand, althought I'll admit sometimes it's a challenge. I think they miss tables.
pxlpshr
In the context of web-based startups, you can assume 99% of the time content will dictate the design, and that the site will grow in content rather quickly. That said, the grid is one of the most modular structures for plugging in content without disrupting or rebuilding the entire flow.

Why re-invent the wheel? The grid concept is universal, and certainly helps during planning for prioritizing real estate and architecting your information properly.

raghus
Maybe you're right.

The reason I use YUI is that I suck at CSS, and, rather than spending a disproportionate amount of time figuring out floats and breaks and browser incompatibilities and whatnot, I can get going quickly.

ra
I've used Blueprint and YUI grids. Both are ace.

In my current project I actually switched from blueprint to YUI, only because I waned a 100% fluid layout - which isn't available in Blueprint.

I was initially concerned by the claims that YUI litters your code with extraneous div tags; I can now say with confidence that these claims are over exaggerated.

The YUI classes can be applied to any block level element, not just divs.

So, both are good - both are easy, give them a try. My vote would be for YUI, but only just.

Also, 960.gs is the new kid on the block.

scorpioxy
I use the YUI CSS framework(not just grids). I've also used blueprint as an experiment.

Frankly, i am no longer interested in writing my own css for layout when something like YUI grids exists. Unless there's something really special. Cross browser css is a PITA without one of those.

I highly recommend it.