Interviewing for startups : are formal cover letters + suits necessary, neutral, or harmful?
When one is applying to a startup of less than 20 people, is it necessary to use a formal cover letter, or will a simple, polite email do? I dislike cover letters because they feel extremely artificial. In my CL template, I end up talking about how, in high school, I woke up at 5:00 am to practice for contest math tests (e.g. USAMO). It makes me sound impressive and hard-working to HR people, but as I'm 25 and that was in HS, this sort of detail is completely irrelevant to whether or not I can write code.
Also, is it a good idea to wear a suit for a startup interview, or is this over-the-top or absurd? I'm afraid that overdressing might make it appear like I don't know how to interview for startups or, worse yet, type-cast me as similar to the species of douchebag college kid that generally applies for I-banking positions.
If it's not necessary to use cover letters and wear suits for startups, the next question is: where does one draw the line? How does one determine in advance whether or not an interview necessitates a suit?
82 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 179 ms ] threadTake that out. It doesn't matter what sort of job you're applying for -- the words "high school" should never appear in the resume or cover letter of anyone who has a college degree.
As for the rest: Dress like the job you want to have, not like the job you're applying for. If I was applying for a management position at a bank (not that I can imagine why I'd ever do that, but hypothetically...) I'd still turn up for an interview wearing a t-shirt and jeans. If my apparel wasn't up to standard, that would be an indication that the job I was applying for wasn't actually a job I wanted -- and being not offered the job would simply save me the trouble of quitting after a few weeks.
Very nice. Put into words my vaguely-formed concept of why I won't be pulling out the suit for future interviews.
For interviews, the best advice I've heard is to remember that you're evaluating them as much as they are you. If they demand/care that you dress a certain way, perhaps it's a good sign you don't want to work there (unless you're into that kind of thing).
I have read posts that hint at a bit of hypocrisy in startups, though: "We wear t-shirts because clothes don't matter, but if you wear a suit you're unfit for startup hacker life." Bear that in mind if you really LOVE wearing suits. :P
One company was 100% casual (don't wear a miniskirt and you are fine). The company was the biggest POS to work for.
Another company is business casual (occasionally they don't mind me wearing a t-shirt and jeans) and it is is just a pleasure to work at this one.
Edit: I actually like wearing business casual, very comfortable cloths.
I'm 26 and I find the trendy designer-esque throwback to the 80's an eye-sore that belongs in a circus, and a contradiction to the shouting cry for individuality when hipsters congregate.
That puts into words my vaguely-formed concept of why I defiantly wear dress pants and expensive shirts (+ suit and tie for interviews) even when working at a tech startup with 20-somethings in (carefully chosen) worn jeans and t-shirts.
If clothes don't matter, why am I being judged because I value aesthetics, not excluding the clothes I wear?
Because they do matter. The function of any level or style of dress at an interview is to mark you as part of the Right Group. This holds true even when the interviewers don't realize that they're unconsciously doing it.
Overdressing for an interview at some companies can put you in the Wrong Group just as surely as underdressing will at others.
You should always dress nicer for the interview than you expect to for the job. It has nothing to do with impressing the interviewer. I wore a tie to my interview because it made me feel important, which made me feel more confident, which made me come across as a more compelling candidate.
Use whatever tools you have to manipulate yourself into being the person (at least temporarily) who easily gets the job you want.
I work for a super casual company now. I wear a t-shirt and jeans to work every day. They actually asked me on my interview why I was wearing a suit. As soon as I spoke, they could tell I wasnt a stuck up stiff "suit". I showed some personality, smiled and laughed a bit. On the other hand I have seen people come through here in hoodies who get the job. But I would personally never wear anything less than a suit to an interview.
I agree dress like the job you want to have, but I disagree with the t-shirt bit. I've worked at 4 different companies, and always show up wearing professional, clean clothes to my interview (suit and tie the first time, since then just button down shirts and dress pants or khakis).
The t-shirt and jeans can wait until you've proven yourself for a few months. I go to work now in shorts and a t-shirt, so this isn't some sour grapes rant. Though I dress casual for work, given a choice between two identical, impeccably groomed, candidates one who came professionally dressed and one who came in shorts and a t-shirt (and that being the only difference), I would be likely to hire the one who came like he was here to interview.
Of course, I would hire someone casually dressed who knows their stuff over an idiot who happens to be wearing a suit, but I don't think there's any reason to put yourself at a disadvantage. Don't overdress, don't underdress - wear clothes appropriate for the interview.
There's no contradiction between what I said and what you're saying -- we just happen to want different jobs. I don't want a job which has expectations for clothing beyond "yes please".
It's up to the original poster to decide what sort of job he wants and dress appropriately for that -- odds are, the job he wants is one which neither of us would want.
Incidentally, bad spelling in an otherwise smart person is a good sign of creativity, because it's correlated with personality types that correlate with creative thinking (when intelligence is evidenced at all).
It's the same sort of thing as dyslexia being different at a neurological level in chinese then in english. English dyslexics who learn chinese aren't dyslexic in chinese. Likewise, people who are messy in their english might be extremely good at code. People sure like to hang onto conventional wisdom even when there is plenty of scientific evidence to suggest that they are wrong.
Clumsy use of English from someone for whom it isn't their native language is a completely different matter, I don't care about that.
For me, it's less about the typing or language skills and more about proving that you can produce a complete work-product. A typo-laden resume indicates to me that you failed to have at least one native speaker of the language review it.
If you have a known weak area (English is not your most fluent language and is also required for the job), I would expect a thorough individual to seek help.
Just like I would expect a rock-star hacker to call tech support or post on open-source forums for help if they have a particularly difficult bug that they aren't making headway with.
Anyway, I went on to be hired and then promoted through dev lead, dev manager, and architect roles at that company.
So, I'm not of the mind that it's something to worry too much about if you're a decent hacker. My more recent interview sessions, I've pretty much always been wearing a suit or at least business casual, but I wouldn't say it's a hard-and-fast rule, especially for a startup and junior position. Still, YMMV.
If a company makes a huge deal about you not being well-dressed then they probably aren't going to be the most flexible company to work for. I know I don't tend to judge candidates specifically by the way they dress, but those who look comfortable in nice clothes do come across more professional.
There are a lot of ex-City people here, which may be where the expectation comes from, but even so...
That explains everything.
I had a friend who actually got turned down for a management position for wearing a suit to an interview (they thought he was "too formal" for the job). PayPal, I believe.
I rock the Silicon Valley Casual for interviews-- jeans and an untucked button-down shirt for consulting gigs (and employee-jobs that I already know I want).
If it's a really creamy consulting gig for a large company, I might even make it slacks, semi-dress shoes, and untucked button down. Regrettably I don't have the complexion for khakis, since blue button-down, brown semi-dress shoes and khaki slacks [with cell phone on a belt clip] appears to be the uniform of choice around here large boring companies that think they're casual.
For startup interviews, I will wear a funny t-shirt, often involving pirates.
You will note that I never overdress beyond these levels (for an interview), as the casual dress is part of my filter against stupid, boring companies.
(granted most High Schools aren't that magical on paper, so the parent post has a valid point in principle)
Cover letter is exceptionally useful. It should explain in simple English why you are qualified for this particular job, highlighting relevant experience and showing that you actually bothered to figure out what this job/company is about. Doing this well is a huge advantage. At your level 1 out of 100 applicants will do it right. Cover letter should be just natural part of the body of the email and be in plain text. It should not be formal.
Suit with no tie is appropriate if you are interviewing for a job of CEO. Suit with a tie is never appropriate. This is different on east coast.
B.Y.O.B.
:)
What defines a good and bad cover letter, in your opinion? What mistakes do the writers of the 99 bad cover letters make?
On what to wear: Dress smart. If it seems like a fun place, dress a bit fun. In NYC, a nice pair of jeans, with a sharp shirt and jacket would probably be a really appropriate attire. I don't think i'd ever show up for an interview with just a t-shirt on, but i guess it depends.
Also, I'd take the advice of those who who say "Wear sandals and a t-shirt" with a grain of salt - I suspect that the majority of people who give that advice are not (and haven't ever been) in a position to hire.
Like, say...a startup.
Even companies looking to maintain a casual, fun work culture should appreciate their candidates attempting to present themselves in a professional way. If an interviewer casts someone in a negative light because they wore a suit... I'll go out on a limb and risk getting flamed by saying that this person probably shouldn't be responsible for hiring in the first place.
This is wrong. I work for a startup (my third one). I wore a suit to the interview. My now-boss said to me, "We should have told you that you didn't have to wear a tie to the interview. Sorry!". I would have worn the tie anyway.
I have personally hired 16 people since starting work at my current startup. They all dressed professionally for the interview, and subsequently changed into shorts and t-shirts.
The issue is: while the startup is casual dress, I might need to take you with me to pitch Fidelity Investments for the B-round of funding. If I'm taking you with me to my investment bank, you better wear a suit and be comfortable in it.
The event production company was pretty close to being a startup, and it was clear from the moment the door opened and I saw the place and the employees that I was overdressed.
I don't remember what I wore to interview for the video game company I worked for a few years ago, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't too fancy. If I was interviewing for a startup with less than twenty employees, I'd be pretty comfortable showing up in jeans and a collared shirt of some sort.
Cover letters extremely valuable. Cover letter says, "I gave your company 5 minutes of thought before I clicked the button that sent my resume".
Best possible thing you can do prior to an interview? As in, the single best possible thing you can ever do that will raise your chances more than anything else you do? Research the company. Hardcore. Everyone who worked there, everything those people have done, and on and on. Come in knowing everything about them, and armed with a litany of questions.
#1 criteria for hiring: smart, gets things done, competant.
#2 criteria for hiring: committed to working here.
But if it's on a recent graduate, or an amateur trying to break into hacking as a profession, not so much. There, it's just a sign of naivete. It's cute, not dumb. It might be awkward, but at least it shows the candidate cares about the position.
The suit gains you 5 seconds of respect until you open your mouth. Then hopefully you will actually know something.
Do yourself a favor; instead of taking an hour the night before to make sure your shirt is pressed and your socks match get on the web, research the company you are interviewing at, try to assess some of the problems that they may encounter, study up on the languages that they utilize, review your algorithms book, and treat the interview like you're applying for the lead position for the development of an auto-pilot software system for a Boeing 787.
If you know your field and know it well superficialities such as a wrinkled shirt will take a back seat.
That's a crucial 5 seconds though. And it's not actually hard to get a clean, well-fitting suit. Most of the hackers I know actually clean up very nicely. That 5 seconds can set the tone for a positive and productive interview.
Absolutely you need to exhaustively research the company you're interviewing with. It's not just to impress your interviewer but also to find out if that company will be a good fit for you.
Don't view the cover letter as artifical. View it as the HR guy will spend two minutes looking at it while waiting for his internet porn to download. What do you have to say about yourself that is so compelling he'll not notice when two minutes pas and his porn finished downloading because he's still looking at your resume. I'll give you a hint, it's not that you wake up early.
Let actions speak rather than clothes. I've known programmers who wore fastidiously cut suits and programmers who wore birks and cutoffs. Both clothing classifications produced fast, capable, flexible programmers who could think on their feet, and both classes also produced morons who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag.
Look beyond the surface and you will end up hiring a much higher quality programmer.
If you like to wear suits, by all means. Sometimes a really nice button down shirt and nice pants feels good.
What really gets me is mandatory dress codes that don't have anything to do with the work getting done, and the outdated thinking that wearing nice clothes means anything. If that's how you are comfortable, please.
The covering letter should be seen as the chance to make an argument as to why you're the right person for this specific job. You shouldn't really have a template for your covering letter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYy8R87JMA
Then make yours natural. Write like you speak and say what you want to say.
"is this over-the-top or absurd"
A suit is never absurd, except at the beach. When in doubt, overdress. You can always take off your jacket (and tie).
And don't forget the handwritten and sincere Thank You Note.
The power of the Thank You note. In your Thank You note, reaffirm your interest and state when you will call them to follow up ("I will call you next Thursday at 10am") and make sure you call at that time! I got this from CollegeGrad.com back in the day and it's a valuable tip. Please do not email something. How much effort does that take? Putting a letter in the mail at least takes putting some clothes on, finding a stamp.
if the company standard is business casual - wear a suit if everyone is in shorts / tshirts - wear slacks and a shirt with a collar
On top of that... I wore a suit to the interview. I was on the fence on wearing it or not, but when in doubt its always better to be over dressed.
Companies, at any stage, are made up of a (semi)random collection of individuals. You can hardly predict their expectations, likes, dislikes, and expectations accurately.
Dress-code wise, I would say dress in whatever YOU feel most comfortable in. When in doubt err on the side of over-dressing, but for almost any "hacker" type role you would never go beyond a sport-coat (possibly with nice jeans and a dress shirt). As someone who has interviewed many people I would say that one thing that seems to negatively affect the dynamics of the interview is when you can tell the person is just not comfortable (and therefore not themself).
Along the lines of not being able to predict how people view your CV, I personally would rather see blank space on a resume instead of blather about what you did in high school or college, which is almost never relevant to what I am interested in. I also personally don't like people who send the followup emails of "It was such a great interview I can totally see myself making a huge contriblahblahblah". Save it, I get enough air-filled emails already, I don't need yours.
Despite what many people might say, there are a LOT of jobs out there. Wear what you want, and handle the process (cover letter, resume, follow-up) however you feel is most appropriate, and iterate rapidly over the feedback (or lack thereof) to adjust your approach.
Personally, I like a brief 2-3 paragraph high-level cover letter that is targeted to the specific job (matches your skills to my requirements) and a resume that is readable and underscores key accomplishments. Dress decent, no matter what position you're interviewing for (if you're at a startup you might have to present to a board or potential customer one day. Having a "nice" set of clothes is a good sign of preparedness, IMO).
Find out who you're interviewing with and learn about the company. Founded by a hacker or MBA? Are they casual at work or no? Do they like golf or D&D? A 20 person company should be quite google-able-- learn about your audience. Hell, find an excuse to drop by and look around.
A bit of research and salesmanship isn't a bad thing. You can call something a "steak" or you can call it a "muscle tissue sample from a castrated bull" (apologies to Robert Heinlein) -- which sounds better to you? There are great studies that indicate that the more you look like a person, the more they'll trust you. You don't have to be totally fake, but you can choose wisely within your wardrobe.
In terms of CV and cover letter, again-- do the research. If the reader has an MBA, err on the side of a bit more traditional. If he/she is an anthropology school dropout whose blog is vulgar and fun, be a bit more casual.
And-- what's wrong with asking questions? Call and say, "the places I'm considering positions at run the gamut between casual and formal in terms of attire. What's your company like on that front? If I wear slacks and a dress shirt to the interview, am I going to be the sharpest dressed person in the office?"
In a previous job I applied for (electricians helper) they wouldn't hire you if you applied in a suit.
I believe in both jobs business casual was fine. It really depends on the interviewers though.
If I were interviewing you and you weren't wearing business casual I might ask why, but that's me. The reason I would ask why is it will give me insight to your personality, and circumstances. You might be having a tough break, you might enjoy wearing suits, or you might think appearances don't matter.
As for when to start culling old info from your resume: I think you have the right idea in thinking that you should stick to those points that are directly relevant to the position. Padding your experiences and skills with high school activities may help when you're fresh out of school and have little or no professional background to reference, but if you've had even one full-time job in the industry, drop the kid stuff.
I haven't been on the interviewee side in a while, but from the interviewer POV, I personally like to see that applicants have made an effort to anticipate the office culture and dress appropriately. Seeing someone in a suit + tie when interviewing in a room full of people wearing T-shirts suggests to me that perhaps they aren't great at prediction based on incomplete information, and instead chose to "play it safe." That can be a desirable attribute in some positions, but it doesn't speak well of their ability to empathize.
If you want to find out whether you're going to get dinged for not going formal with your interview attire, do some research. Check the 'About Us' or 'Staff' page on the company website, or check out staff members' blogs and Flickr photos. Maybe on of the senior staff have presented at a conference recently, or podcasts from their office?
With regards to a suit; here's what I've always done. I suppose it's a little risky, but it's always been fantastic for me.
Call the company you're interviewing, at whatever public number you find. Hopefully you get a receptionist, or at least someone gabby. Tell them that you're coming in for an interview, and you'd really like to dress appropriately - so instead of asking for advice, ask what their boss is wearing that day. If the answer is slacks and a button-up shirt (short-sleeved or not), then you're going to wear a coat and tie for the interview. If the answer is jeans, then you're going to wear slacks, polished shoes and a button up shirt.
You don't have to be shy about this, companies really like to know that you give a shit about what they think. It definitely shows when I'm interviewing with someone who knows why they want to work with us versus someone who just wants a paycheck.
I never say "no." This is always acceptable to me.
If the dress is normally no-tie business casual, wear business casual with a tie or a suit if that makes you feel comfortable. You definitely don't have to wear a suit for an engineering interview, you can wear a shirt and tie and no jacket.
So I would ask the HR person who scheduled your interview what people/the boss normally wear to work, then go one level higher in dressiness where one level higher is a fluid concept based on your personal comfort level.
Once you're in and they get a good first impression, then lead with your personality. If you're an interesting person but you don't get the job because you're dressed too formally, you clearly didn't use your personality.. because while first impressions can be made by dress, the impression made ten minutes into an interview should have been driven 99% by the PERSONALITY of the interviewee.
Use the suit to get the first impression, use your personality for the rest.