A common issue here in Brazil, unfortunately. It's often worth it breaking the law because the fines are often small, specially for huge companies like Facebook.
Can't believe I will defend Facebook but here it goes.
The purpose of a fine is not to bankrupt a company but to be a slap in the wrist to avoid further behaviour. Just like a speeding ticket won't dent my pay check this won't be a blip in the radar of Facebook, but if they continue expect the fines to grow more and more.
I ask again, what would an appropriate amount for a fine be?
Given (ad) revenue is proportional to number of users's data exploited, a variable amount seems fair and yet won't result in bankruptcy. So since you are asking again, how about 1% of annual revenue.
Sure, but that's like fining me $10 for doing something bad. You're really not deterring me.
> how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?
If we actually want to get serious about this, fines must be progressive like taxes, otherwise there is no way to inflict the same "punishment" on an individual or company that generates $10,000 a year and and individual or company that generates $100,000,000 per year.
So let's make the fine some percentage of Facebook's total revenue.
I'd be very happy if speeding fines, or drink driving fines, or any others were a percentage of my income.
Facebook could sell tens of millions of people's data without their consent for just $10,000.
How much should you fine them in that case?
If I rob a bank and only manage to get away with $50, how much should I be fined, or for how long should I be jailed?
The fine isn't about how much Facebook profited from this violation, it should be about how much they make each year if we really want to discourage this behaviour long term.
I heard a skit on the radio once where an American was driving around Sydney looking for a park and asked about parking in some place. A local said, "Oh no, the fine for parking there is $40 a day!".
The American immediately parked there, saying $40 is much cheaper than daily parking in NYC.
I've often heard suggestions that fines be specified in law as percentages of revenue. IANAL and don't know how feasible that is, but it makes more sense to me than raw dollar amounts which, by their nature, make crime more affordable over time due to inflation and more affordable in proportion to income.
I.e. a $5 fine is a harsher punishment in 1990 than in 2020, and is a greater deterrent to someone with $50 in their pocket than someone with $50,000. But a fine of 1% of yearly revenue is the same effect across time and class.
>Out of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?
Well its not their first fine for improper sharing of user data.
So what is the goal of the fine? Is it to prevent bad behavior, if so, the prior and current fines taken together have failed. Is the goal to punish FB monetarily for bad behavior? If so, the fine has failed and FB is actually being financially rewarded because the financial gain exceeds the fine.
A FB user's worth to the company is $158/user. FB shared data of 440,000 users...so at minimum the fine should be $139 Million or 2x the value of each user FB. Now that is just the fine for improper data sharing by the regulator...each actual victim should also be able to privately sue FB (or collectively in a class action) for actual damages. You may say that is outrageous, but guaranteed FB would still turn around and abuse user data willfully in the future.
This is a fine for a single app on fb's platform. if it goes through then fb has to either dramatically clean up their act or prepare to face similar fines for thousands of other apps, I would imagine.
Foreign nations are increasingly using US tech firms as piggy banks, they fine and levy arbitrary taxes from them, or just use the threat of such to demand some change in behavior, it's quite the racket.
Probably not going to change anytime soon. It's a lot more palatable to Europeans to invent reasons to fine foreign companies than to face up to the fact that all the red tape they use to maintain their way of life is the reason they're a non-player compared to the Americans or the wealthier SEA region nations. It's part of why SEA is the better focus for long-term trade partnerships since they don't share the entitled laziness that makes Europeans protest over things like automated checkout counters. South America is interesting because it has a lot of the properties that make for a potentially competitive tech scene but not the wealth to keep talent so the European strategy probably suits many of the region's nations better for now.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 68.1 ms ] threadOut of curiosity, how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?
The purpose of a fine is not to bankrupt a company but to be a slap in the wrist to avoid further behaviour. Just like a speeding ticket won't dent my pay check this won't be a blip in the radar of Facebook, but if they continue expect the fines to grow more and more.
I ask again, what would an appropriate amount for a fine be?
Sure, but that's like fining me $10 for doing something bad. You're really not deterring me.
> how much do you think would an appropriate fine be?
If we actually want to get serious about this, fines must be progressive like taxes, otherwise there is no way to inflict the same "punishment" on an individual or company that generates $10,000 a year and and individual or company that generates $100,000,000 per year.
So let's make the fine some percentage of Facebook's total revenue.
I'd be very happy if speeding fines, or drink driving fines, or any others were a percentage of my income.
Knowing that we would be better informed to say if 1.6 Million is a lot or not according to the offence.
How much should you fine them in that case?
If I rob a bank and only manage to get away with $50, how much should I be fined, or for how long should I be jailed?
The fine isn't about how much Facebook profited from this violation, it should be about how much they make each year if we really want to discourage this behaviour long term.
If no one fined you, you parked for free, if you got fined, you still paid less than what you would pay to the parking lot.
And I agree with you, fines should be progressive, if they aren't, they are a deterrent only to small players.
The American immediately parked there, saying $40 is much cheaper than daily parking in NYC.
https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/deme... [PDF]
I.e. a $5 fine is a harsher punishment in 1990 than in 2020, and is a greater deterrent to someone with $50 in their pocket than someone with $50,000. But a fine of 1% of yearly revenue is the same effect across time and class.
Well its not their first fine for improper sharing of user data.
So what is the goal of the fine? Is it to prevent bad behavior, if so, the prior and current fines taken together have failed. Is the goal to punish FB monetarily for bad behavior? If so, the fine has failed and FB is actually being financially rewarded because the financial gain exceeds the fine.
A FB user's worth to the company is $158/user. FB shared data of 440,000 users...so at minimum the fine should be $139 Million or 2x the value of each user FB. Now that is just the fine for improper data sharing by the regulator...each actual victim should also be able to privately sue FB (or collectively in a class action) for actual damages. You may say that is outrageous, but guaranteed FB would still turn around and abuse user data willfully in the future.
[0] https://www.wired.com/story/what-happened-to-facebooks-grand...
“Brazilian officials brandish corruption by signaling to Facebook their citizens are up for sale”