Ask HN: Courses/resources to improve my self-esteem and believe in myself more?
I've been well aware I suffer from low self-esteem for many years and have worked with a therapist to try and address this but it's obvious I've got as far as I can go with my current therapist. Before I just change therapists I'm looking for empirical evidence from HN readers that might have gone a different route that has yielded tangible (if personal) results. Does anyone have anything to recommend?
137 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] threadYou may also find meditation helpful--particularly some kind of light noting practice (perhaps not Mahasi-style noting, but Shinzen Young's Unified Mindfulness/See Hear Feel technique). Deconstructing emotions and thoughts into their constituent parts not only will allow you to see your patterns more clearly, but breaking a complex emotion down also makes it more manageable to deal with.
As with most habits, you'll get most out of what you're willing to do not only during therapy sessions or formal meditation sits, but during every day life.
But I have a question: is there any particular part of your life you notice especially low self-esteem?
My self-esteem issues are the products of childhood abuse and trauma. I was in denial about my trauma, but therapy helped me accept the reality and work on treating the root cause, not the the symptomps. Your self-esteem issues might not root from abuse. But it's a good idea to get help from a professional. Otherwise you might be just treating the symptomps, not the disease itself.
That's a big accusation against a community of people without any corroborating evidence. Do you have anything to support your claim?
If you're good on those things, try increasing your exercise level. Walk/run/sprint or lifting. You can do body weight exercise at home if you do not feel comfortable in a gym just yet.
If you are happy with your exercise level, pick up a new hobby, tech or otherwise.
It seems to work for me as we can have 5-7 days straight of cloudy skies where I'm at. I spent the first two days without it and the next three with it and there was a difference.
Since its cash pay and I absolutely love testing/scanning myself randomly (any blood/dexa/cortisol/ekg/heart test I can find and afford) we usually spend 20 minutes twice a year going through the science of whatever I'm testing at the time and (typically) shooting down the necessity of whatever crazy thing I want to try next.
But low impact low benefit things like vitamins and a few no-cost hobby things are super under-rated. For example theres a handful of entries on this chart that are low cost with low behavioral change required medium impact that were unexpected for me: https://blog.23andme.com/health-traits/what-patients-say-wor...
I won't claim one of these is the magic bullet to help OP, since I don't know the specifics of the case. But if one or more of them aren't what they should be, then it's likely that it should be addressed before anything more extreme/expensive.
IMO, it can be difficult to overcome this all by yourself. Having someone in your life who is willing to help goes a long way
Edit: Why the downvotes? His lessons surrounding common issues in life that he's seen in therapy sessions are authentic and incredibly helpful.
"Don't Shoot The Messenger", etc.
I also think Jordan Peterson is a tough person to understand. The reason for that is: (1) sometimes he has a science-based psychological discussion (e.g. Big 5) and (2) sometimes he talks about Freud and is a lot more into metaphore/language stuff that isn't science-based and IMO philosophical at best.
I mostly find him interesting because whenever I agree (a lot) or disagree strongly (also a lot) with him, he is quite articulate about it. He is one of the people that keeps me out of my filter bubble. Second, his fuzzy/Jungian side in psychology is fascinating. In my psych degree we were only scientific, but if you let that go then you can go much deeper! Just because something is subjective doesn’t mean the information should be disregarded right away, you just need to understand the limitations and dangers of subjectivitt. I use that psychological side of him to think more philosophically about humans and to compare it to my own experiences and scientific literature.
My advice for my 20 year old self would be to avoid him other than his clip on DMT, his IQ + personality lectures that have statistical underpinning and “make something of yourself”
In short: if you don’t get him, feel free to ignore him. If you eant to watch Mathieu Ricard his TED Talks. He is a Buddhist monk and used to do research as a postdoc in molecular science.
In order to raise self esteem, one must do esteemable things.
Volunteer, be kind, let people in in traffic, work out, do these things consciously. You have to spend energy every day. Choose to spend it in positive ways.
Note: the results are not instantaneous. Nor are they overpowering. It's subtle, and you often only notice after things have been better for a while. Sometimes, others in your life notice for you.
Try to stick with it for 90 days. Worst case scenario, you made the world a little bit better for three months. Hard to lose.
Jiu-jitsu's actually not even my preferred martial art; however, for someone looking to improve themselves I think its about the best there is for a couple of reasons:
- Since it's grappling, you can spar from pretty much day one with minimal chance of injury (compare this with something like boxing where sparring means getting punched in the face). In addition to the martial advantages, sparring is a great way to build confidence.
- Jiu-jitsu is very learnable. Virtually everyone who trains it seriously for a few years becomes a formidable fighter.
- You tend to meet people from many different backgrounds and walks of life. Also, I've found BJJ practitioners to be very welcoming.
- Since competition tends to be an important part of BJJ, there is sort of a built in assumption that everyone is there to help each other become a badass. Even if competition doesn't really interest you, I think that sort of environment translates to people helping you become a more confident person.
- There is a lot to learn and people are always innovating.
- Since many other martial arts do not practice ground fighting, if you eventually decide that some other style of martial art is the one that's right for you, having trained BJJ will always be an asset.
Note: I mention becoming a good fighter or a "badass" because those terms are easy to understand. I don't mean to suggest that you should become some sort of macho, aggressive jerk. From what I've observed, even if someone starts training the martial arts because "they have something to prove" as they get more experienced it stops being about proving how tough they are.
The badass part is interesting. Knowing that someone who knows more BJJ than you will beat you, regardless of size and strength I think balances people out. Also, aggressive jerks either self select out or get the aggressive jerk beat out of them while learning. I haven't met an aggressive jerk yet whose ego survives getting choked out by a 120# woman.
Also, you have to be a little more specific. For example writing open source software could be considered "volunteer work", but is probably not what you meant.
I've never felt awkward, fake, or used. I've only felt like it's given me community, purpose, and meaning in my life. Your mileage may vary, but volunteering has gotten me through some pretty dark times in my life.
His work is a great resource but glancing at this thread theres a few other things that might have higher ROI. At the same time, if you're not substituting with something else, this book is world better than not reading anything.
I've read a LOT of these books. And there's a few in CBT that are helpful (including this one). There's DBT. There's practical self esteem work (confidence is repeated domain specific success). There's some philosophical work that helps. Lifting heavy weights helps. A blood test from privatemdlabs where you can see everything inside you (if you can afford it) helps. Nutrition helps. Sleep helps. Etc.
But feeling good, which has to be 20 to 30 years old, by far is the most effective thing I've ever seen.
Pro tip: type up the excersizes (or google them) and try journaling them into an evernote. The progress is 10x faster. 2 months of feeling good probably did as much as a few years of weekly CBT counseling.
Strongly recommend.
I think for the most part I've learnt I've learnt that much of what we think about happiness is consistently shown not to work. And that many of our expectations of what we think will make us happy, simply won't. If we want genuine happiness, it takes an honest self-assessment of what we're doing, what's stopping us from being happy and what would be the best way to map the parts of our life we can control to actually make us happy.
Anyway, the course seems well respected and highly recommended [2]. But I hope you're doing ok, and whatever you choose to do next, you find what you're looking for. Best of luck.
[0] https://www.inc.com/betsy-mikel/yale-let-anyone-take-its-mos...
[1] https://www.coursera.org/learn/the-science-of-well-being
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19903628
I found that strength training has radically changed my life, and I've certainly plumbed the depths of profound depression and anxiety in my own life. So far, nothing has come close to helping me as much as strength training. Working out regularly gives me a way to care for myself, and I can walk around knowing that I'm doing work that will have a lasting benefit for all aspects of my life. It's a lot less about looking perfect or weighing some ideal amount and more about caring for myself, and celebrating those small victories in the gym as evidence of personal resilience and growth.
Excersize may not be the magic bullet for your situation, but the same experience of caring for yourself might come from other experiences, like volunteer work, studying a new skill or hobby, etc.
By the way, I've certainly let mediocre therapy go too long. Nothing wrong with exploring other therapists, it's a deeply personal search, and needs also change over time. Trust your instincts on whether you are receiving the right care for you. The worst that can happen is that you try someone else and realize you prefer your former therapist.
You are worth it! Best of luck.
These programs can be boring in the beginning because you are starting with such light weights, but because you progress linearly (adding weight each workout), the weight adds up quickly and the light weights in the beginning gives you a chance to get comfortable with the movements. Watch videos on YouTube of good techniques for squat, bench and deadlift (this is a neverending pursuit though in my experience - I'm still working on perfecting form 4 years in).
Do the linear progression program as long as you can to get the most out of it...obviously you cannot keep increasing the weights each workout forever, but run it as long as you can. In the beginning, since you are untrained, you will make what they call "noobie gains" and get stronger every single workout. When that stops working, you can run a program that is still linear, but where progression is weekly rather than each workout. Then after that, you'll need to do more research into the proper "periodization" you'll need in order to continue to progress.
I started off in a 2x/week one-on-one coaching relationship, and after a few weeks (basically once I had some basic understanding of the main powerlifting exercises) I started attending small group classes 3x/week.
Take your time, focus on form, and work with a knowledgeable coach. You might look for gyms that feature classes in powerlifting or olympic weightlifting.
https://www.barbellmedicine.com/ might be a good resource to check out if you don't have coaches in your immediate area, and you want to have expert guidance.
In the past I've started with big projects and struggled with my own confidence because I haven't finished them. Making small goals and accomplishing them really gives me an positive sense of self, and ability.
Tal-Ben Shahar Positive Psychology [1], it's a Harvard course and self-esteem is one of the lectures. It's old, but the big ideas that changed my life are there.
So based on that course you'll want to learn about meditation. I've got the right book for you from a Google engineer who made sure most of it was evidence-based [2].
Obviously you'll also realize because of the course you want to pickup aerobic exercise.
David Burns is my favorite psychologist (I read Intimate Connections from him, his claim to fame is Feeling Good). He has an answer to your question, which is Ten Days to Self Esteem [3]. Though, when I read the reviews you might just want to get one of his other books. I'm a fan of Intimate Connections, other people are fan of Feeling Good. You'll definitely learn a lot about cognitive behavioral therapy. CBT changed my life.
And what the heck, not sure if this counts towards your question, but it's at least related to it and good for the soul. Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl [4]. What's interesting about his book regarding self-esteem is that he basically invents half the field of positive psychology 50 to 60 years before it even exists. Also, it's just mandatory reading for any human being IMO, but that's again IMO.
Then, some personal advice that I've seen to work.
You need to be brutally rational and empirical about self-esteem. I know one programmer friend and I noticed that he wasn't able to do that. What I noticed was the following: HE DIDN'T TEST HIS ASSUMPTIONS! Yes, that warrants a caps because I told this to him every single time and it didn't get through to him. So, do find your assumptions and do some experiments.
Some experiments I have done in the past:
1. People are mean. Experiment: walk up to 10 people and say hi and see what happens. Result: people say hi back, and the pressure of not saying anything sometimes caused a conversation to happen which was fairly pleasant. In other cases it was awkward. In conclusion: people were never mean.
2. Stating to a woman that you want to kiss her doesn't work. Instead you have to make the move. Experiment: when I feel I have a bond with a woman [a] and I want to kiss her, then state it politely and leave it at that, repeat every 2 hours (if you still feel that way and have been fully platonic otherwise). Results: to my surprise, every woman kissed me. Heck, some just kissed me out of curiosity despite feeling no attraction to me. Weirder still, one of those curious kisses was one of the best kisses we both had in our lives. Note: I didn't ask any random woman on the street to kiss me. If the constraints of [a] weren't satisfied, I'd feel too unsafe to kiss her, and in almost all cases wouldn't even want to kiss her.
[a] Minimally 3 hours of intense talking about life, ourselves, our families, hopes, ambitions, the works, preferably 6 hours. This excludes having fun. Without getting a feel about someone and without feeling a strong connection, kissing feels a bit too dangerous for me to do. Since I had low self-esteem I wanted to feel safe.
3. I am not attractive. Experiment: go up to 30 people for which you want to be attractive to and give them a survey. Ask them at least: from a scale of 1 to 10 how attractive you are, and from a scale of 1 to 10 how attractive you could potentially be and what you'd need to change and why it would make you more attractive. While I didn't do this experiment, I have had enough feedback about my attractiveness. Long story short: I think I'm not that good looking (I have a scar on my face since birth). But most people that I want to be attractive to find me actually quite attractive. I've also been called ugly enough times, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. I think a strong moderating variable is whether you simp...
As for any specific thing you could try, find something that is interesting to you. Find a small internet community about it and engage. Learn from them and tell them what you know. Build trust, then try to move it to offline meetup or places. Someone you trust and idolize telling you how valuable you are as a person is a great booster.
I've also recently learned that Coursera has a Foundations of Positive Psychology Specialization [2] put on by UPenn (where Seligman is a professor) -- it includes a course on Positive Psychology taught by Selgiman.
[1.] Learned Optimism: How to Change Your Mind and Your Life - https://www.amazon.com/Learned-Optimism-Change-Your-Mind/dp/...
[2.] Coursera Specialization: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/positivepsychology#...
Simply following his advice will make anyone's life more awesome.
https://store.tonyrobbins.com/products/personal-power
I think science-based resources are slightly better on average than things like Tony Robbins. Simply because researchers tend to talk more moderate and less hype, and there's a slightly higher likelihood of what they say is actually true, in my opinion.
That said, one can always see something like Personal Power and take out the inspiring bits and see what works for you.
https://www.coursera.org/learn/happiness
But, given all that and where you find yourself emotionally, I wonder if you've perhaps made a bunch of choices you're not happy with, and now you're a bit burnt out. Might I ask, what options do you have in your life right now? How locked in do you feel to your current path?
I read the book and reread it and work the 12 steps into my daily life. The single best thing it did for me is that it made me a more honest person, to others and myself. I no longer try to push myself to make deadlines. When things starts sucking at work, I say it honestly. When I wronged someone, I am quick to apologize. I no longer have the need to fulfill people's expectations and since I have nothing to hide, I look into people's eyes during conversations and I genuinely connect with people better.
I was introduced to this book during AA meetings (which I started going to voluntarily to get the courage to say no to alcohol). The people who go to AA meetings regularly because they choose to, are amazing people. Maybe going there regularly will help you boost your self esteem, as it did mine.
FYI, most people have a hard time with step 2 and 3. If you are like me and don't believe in God, it helps to redefine God. God could be nature, fate, an apple, or whatever makes sense to you that seems like a recurring source of comfort for you. For me, God is the innate goodness in people that makes them want to do right by others.
Good luck.
I spent lots of time in front of therapists as well. What I got for it was an education in how I got to be who I am today. My recommendation is to save your money, watch School of Life videos (https://www.theschooloflife.com/) and you can figure out why you are you. The short answer is; your upbringing, because it's very hard to change that internal original programming.
The goal of therapy is 'know yourself'. So when you do eventually do 'know yourself' therapy is not going to be much help; you have achieved the goal of therapy.
(Side note: If you have had recent or unresolved trauma then 'yourself' has changed, go back to therapy to locate the new you.)
Although I do not like the term AT ALL, it sounds like you know who you are; you are a person with 'low self esteem'. I too, had "Low self esteem" as the therapists put it. What they didn't say is "Ok here's what you do with that".
Here is what I heard: "Go volunteer. Give back. Help others.".
Bullshit. That is misguided advice. You end up acting charitable and feeling used.
Or I hear "Go out, meet people."
Also, bad advice. I'm struggling and you are asking me to put social interactions on top of that too? No.
A Zen Buddhist monk once told me something that I think is applicable to you. "You can not directly control your emotions, they are too powerful, all you can control is your behavior. Control your behavior long enough your emotions will change."
That goes directly inline with the advice I'm about to give you, which is simply this:
Be competent.
Focus your energy on directing your behavior on being absolutely competent in one single area of your life and get mastery over it; absolute competence.
Once you feel like you have changed and have gained sufficient competency, move to the next thing. Build yourself up brick by brick by your actions and behavior.
It is much, much harder than just sitting talking to a therapist, but an order of magnitude more effective.
This mastery will give you confidence.
Edit: it also helps to have a hobby. Pro tip: media consumption is not a hobby. It’s just passive entertainment.
I am saying that confidence comes from being able to navigate the world with skills you have learned and not from dwelling on your history (alone or with a therapist) long after you already understand it.
Your emotions are too powerful to control and you can't change the past. Literally the only thing you can control is your behavior. What you personally, actually physically do.
If you take that control and focus it on being competent; you will gain confidence. You will trust yourself.
Meditation and therapy are good for introspection and knowing yourself. I have had a ton of breakthroughs of self understanding with both of those. But it's the times that I took action that made an actual tangible difference in my life.
I am a competent singer (for instance). That did not come easy. I spent hundreds of hours at karaoke sitting there my heart pounding waiting to get called up in front of people I didn't know. I have been boo'd. I have been on a stage when someone yelled YOU SUCK when my new girlfriend was there.
I kept going back and now, at the beginning of the night when everyone is far too sober to sing, I sing 4-5 songs. I have absolute confidence that if there is a microphone somewhere I will walk up to it and sing. Without music or prompting. I love music and that was my driver, but it was the focus of my behavior that lead me to being competent at singing. When I was single I'd ask attractive women to go up and sing with me. It bonds you to sing with someone, it feels great. I am not a great singer, but I'm more than good enough for karaoke, which is all I care about.
Replace singing with communication, coding, negotiating, driving, cooking, debating, talking to women, bidding on jobs, leading developers, writing, etc.
I will say, it is emotionally very difficult and painful, but leads to the most rapid results.
Two major things happened to me from massive amounts of repetition: 1) I lost my fear and could be my authentic self (which is maybe what confidence is) 2) I really started to understand what 'good' and 'bad' were within the context of whatever I was trying to improve.
I would add, if you decide to do something like this, make sure to take care of yourself. Facing your fears like this, especially if you're doing it aggressively, is stressful. Make sure to exercise or do something else that allows you to blow off emotional steam.
1. The very definition of confidence is exposing your true self to the world and being OK with how it is received. 2. Knowing what good/bad are. Yes, that helped you become confident. You began to have better 'taste' and you had the confidence to know AND admit which side of it you fell on.
can you share more about this? material you have read and steps you have taken that helped you with your dating life and more specifically with being more confidence.
Figure out how to make people laugh, which starts with enjoying laughing yourself. Get very good at pointing out that things are funny and having a good laugh. Laugh at yourself.
That will go a long way in dating.
What I found is that the repetition allows you to reframe the situation. I started to no longer 'get my hopes up' or really anticipate the date, so that I wouldn't have an agenda coming into it. Instead it was much more casual: just get to know them and see if there's a good vibe or connection.
I want to point out that this is different than trying to sleep with a bunch of women. I was really going for connection, and if you go on a lot of dates you start being able to tell pretty quickly if there's a connection.
I really do think there's something to essentially 'brute forcing' your way to getting better at something. Make it so your primary goal is learning and getting better, and, remarkably, you will.
I'd recommend reading The Conquest of Happiness by Bertrand Russel [1]. Some great excerpts:
> When I was a boy I knew a man bursting with happiness whose business was digging wells. He was of enormous height and of incredible muscles; he could neither read nor write, and when in the year 1885 he got a vote for Parliament, he learnt for the first time that such an institution existed. His happiness did not depend upon intellectual sources; it was not based upon belief in natural law, or the perfectibility of the species, or the public ownership of public utilities, or the ultimate triumph of the Seventh Day Adventists, or any of the other creeds which intellectuals consider necessary to their enjoyment of life. It was based upon physical vigor, a sufficiency of work, and the overcoming of not insuperable obstacles in the shape of rock. The happiness of my gardener is of the same species; he wages a perennial war against rabbits, of which he speaks exactly as Scotland Yard speaks of Bolsheviks. […]
> But, you will say, these simple delights are not open to superior people like ourselves. What joy can we experience in waging war on such puny creatures as rabbits? The argument, to my mind, is a poor one. A rabbit is very much larger than a yellow fever bacillus, and yet a superior person can find happiness in making war upon the latter. Pleasures exactly similar to those of my gardener so far as their emotional content is concerned are open to the most highly educated people. […]
> To all the talented young men who wander about feeling that there is nothing in the world for them to do, I should say: “Give up trying to write, and, instead, try not to write. Go out into the world; become a pirate, a king in Borneo, a laborer in Soviet Russia; give yourself an existence in which the satisfaction of elementary physical needs will occupy almost all your energies.”
Now, you probably don't want to go that far. But the point is: your life doesn't have to be grand or world-changing in order for you to be happy. You probably won't end up in the history books, but there's still a lot of cool things you can do before you die. You probably won't be the next Charlotte Brontë, but maybe you can write one book. You probably won't be the next Florence Nightingale, but maybe you can donate to the Against Malaria Foundation and save a dozen lives.
[1]: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.222834
To gain self esteem, you must accomplish things. The good news? You get to pick the things. The hard part might be seeing what you've accomplished.
Lift weights and track progress. It is great to see the first time you lift 100, 200, and/or 300 pounds. Grow a garden. Raise a plant. Train a dog. Build a website. Create something tangible. Create something intangible. Finish a book. Have a fun conversation with someone. Help someone. Volunteer. There are so many ways to impact your life or the lives of those around you. Take time to notice the positive impact your actions have on yourself and others. And know that you don't have to be perfect.