Actually a disturbed ego will hate doing a good thing, and love doing a bad thing. Thats the basis of affective disorders. Is it hate, or is it aversion? The spectrum of emotion isn't a simple thing, and i have seen people change.
Not always true. I frequently procrastinate on things that I actively enjoy doing and want to do. There are times when I want nothing more than to be doing something and I still procrastinate doing it. This applies to things that aren't work or aren't productive just the same, things that take little effort like watching a series or playing a video game.
Medication does make it a lot better and I don't procrastinate nearly as much as I used to, but before I started taking it, there were times where I'd lie on the sofa with the remote control next to me and I would just stare at the ceiling thinking about watching that movie I've been wanting to watch and I still couldn't bring myself to do it.
Yes, mediation, mindfulness and several other techniques for controlling emotions were things that we tried with my psychiatrist. Meditation didn't really work for me but mindfulness sure did.
I know, but consider psychiatric meds perscribed - its generally very risky to mess with one’s head. Ive 700hours in monasteries under my belt, ive seen the dark side of meditation, aswell as its light. I still say take the risk tho.
Mindful is a great tool. It needn't be vipassana. Many People who do vipassana often are at a point where its a last resort before something worse.
Oh yes i did mean mindfulness meditation, i have been to several mindfulness retreats (vipassanas) and used to have ADHD. I find cold showers and a morning/evening mindfulness sit work wonders.
I suppose I should clarify the kind of mindfulness I'm talking about. Basically what I was taught was how to pay attention to what I'm feeling and where those emotions are coming from. This helps a lot with lowering my anxiety and stress levels. Unlike meditation, this isn't something that I stop to do, aside from maybe a brief pause to take a couple of breaths, it's something I do throughout the day when I start feeling bad.
Meditation didn't work for me because it implied taking some time out my day to do it, and that would just and either become a way to procrastinate or something that I would procrastinate doing and contribute to my anxiety.
That aside, I think there's a lot of confusion about the terms "meditation," "mindful mediation" and "mindfulness" and I'm not sure I know the correct way to use them, but the above is what I mean when I say "mindfulness."
I don't think it's possible to procrastinate using mindfulness meditation. If you're trying to avoid something, what you're really trying to avoid are the associated emotions. Mindfulness meditation does literally the opposite.
I find that by letting the emotions I'd like to avoid come to my consciousness -- i.e. meditating -- I get used to them. That frequently outright removes my procrastinating problem.
> that I would procrastinate doing and contribute to my anxiety.
You don't have to schedule meditation. Just do it when you feel like it, expand your brief pauses. And if you don't feel like meditating for weeks or months, so be it.
I find the only thing that comes in the way of meditation is the mind’s attempt to escape while under duress. People tend to prefer to drink, watch something, and even blame others, rather than sit and close eyes and feel.
Thats why i think its important to actually have a meditation buddy to help out with starting, and when its particularly tough.
The more an ego needs to meditate, it seems that it develops more and more aversion - i sort of think its one major cause for many mental pathologies.
I'd pay some seriously good money for some information about how to efficiently meditate with ADD. From my experience, it is a poor tool to improve one's condition, and ADD makes it nigh impossible to efficiently meditate anyway. I have done some googling on that topic and only find lame "meditation for wellbeing" BS all around, but nothing clearly targeted for ADD.
Lookup a 10 day vipassana retreat /with a good teacher/ (important! Bad vipassana can cause psychosis esp. if teacher is rigid. And uve a traumatic past)
In the beginning, you will fight your ego, certain traumas will surface, you learn to accept alot about urself too. The less that disturbs the ego, the calmer it is.
Even to this my meditation is disturbed, but im a much calmer person.
Mind you its complex too, could be a food habits/mild allergy contributing to existing factors. Did you try a water fast with some power coffee?
I don't take medication even though I'm diagnosed with ADD. I guess there is the procrastination from ADD and the one talked about in the article.
The one from ADD makes me do... nothing. I feel paralyzed somehow. I scream at myself in my mind to finally start the task, I know I have to but my body won't move. It's hard to explain.
Then there is the procrastination as described in the article. I think it makes me do something else instead that I have put off, like cleaning or the sudden urge to finally learn a new programming language / framework. Like, I feel better and worse at the same time! I did something productive, at the cost of what I should have done.
I definitely understand. As I got older, I found myself doing the first type of procrastination (the do nothing type) more and more, and after talking through some things with my psychiatrist we came to the conclusion that it's because that bad feeling you get after the second type of procrastination (the do something else type) started overpowering the good feeling of doing something, so I would end up paralyzed and doing nothing more often.
Now, on the good days I actually do the things I want to do or need to do, but on the days when I procrastinate, I tend to do the type where I do something else. The days where I get completely paralyzed are far less frequent now. Part of it is the medication but another part was learning to control my guilt and anxiety over not doing what I'm "supposed to." This is why I tell people that medication is not a magic solution to your problems, it'll help but you'll still have bad days and it won't work automatically, you still gotta put in the effort to get better, the medicine will just help a bit with that.
I was diagnosed with ADD later in life. I started medication and it helped the first year. After that it went down hill quite fast. The thing is you can laser focus with medication. This means that if you are a procrastinator for the lack of attention, it helps you quite well. But if you are a procrastinator because of emotional walls (difficult, confronting, boring, etc.), it helps you laser focus on your procrastination tasks and you forget about the main task. YouTube, Gaming & P*rnhub and no other worries in the world.
So medication can help with ADD, but those emotions need to be addressed. I stopped mine after 4 years.
The beauty of communities like these is that I can make an account and talk about my experiences without tying it to my real identity. Unfortunately I don't have the courage to do that yet, it's easier to be honest when the stakes are low. Somehow, HN also seems a better place to do so, rather than a community dedicated to the disorder. Probably because it's mostly about other things and only occasionally warrants posting about my experiences when the topic comes up instead of being 100% about it.
If it's not too personal, could you give me a rough idea of what sort of medication you are on? In the last couple of years I started thinking maybe I should try something... Meditation has helped a lot but there are still weeks when my emotions get a bit out of control and nothing gets done.
It took some time to find a combination of medicine that worked for me, and I was pretty lucky as far as that is concerned. So my first bit of advice to anyone considering medicine is to stick with it and follow directions. It's also important to find a psychiatrist who will work with you, in my experience (your mileage will vary) it takes roughly a month or sometimes two to see if something is working, so sticking with it (unless you start having really serious side effects) is important even if it appears not to be working. Also, a good psychiatrist, in my experience, will give you a phone number so you can reach him at almost any time with questions and concerns.
As far as medication itself goes, I started with Atomoxetine (Straterra) and that barely worked for me, I also tried Methylphenidate in extended release form (Concerta) which does work but came with an annoying amount of anxiety. What works best for me is Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse), which is basically extended release amphetamine. I take 70mg daily in the morning and it works really well and doesn't produce any side effects for me. 70mg is considered a large dose, but seeing how I can sleep well and even take naps during the day (if I want), and have no anxiety, irritability or tachycardia when taking it, it seems to be an appropriate dose for me. A friend of mine suspected he had ADHD and took a much lower dose of Vyvanse (10 mg), and he was shaky and irritable right away, so in the end his diagnosis wasn't ADHD but depression, which can have similar symptoms.
Also when I started, I took fluoxetine and clonazepam to help with depression and anxiety that was caused by living with untreated ADHD, but I'm not taking that anymore because I don't need to, following doctor's advice, of course, never stop taking anti-depressants by yourself, withdrawal can be harsh if you don't take care and taper the dose off gradually. These helped me keep my mood in the right space so I could get started on working towards fixing my problems. Now I'm just taking Vyvanse, and while the dose might decrease in the future, it's likely that I'll be taking it for the rest of my life, or at least until heart problems make it impossible to keep taking it.
I hope this helps, even if it's more information that you asked for. The point I wanted to make is that while medication is there to help, it doesn't magically make the problems go away (even if the right combination can feel that way), and the same symptoms can mean many different things, so psychiatric medicine can involve a lot of trial and error, especially if you're unlucky. I found it very important to keep careful track of how my state of mind changed as I took the medicine and to report it as accurately as possible to my psychiatrist.
That advice ignores the fact that we hate most of the things we should do to be healthy. Should we just give up fitness and healthy eating just because we don't like them (in the short term)?
An example might be to quit smoking. Anyone who quits will probably procrastinate that for a while. But no matter how much you are going to hate quitting, smoking just isn’t worth it.
i do not favor this example either. to quit smoking is long term commitment to not do something anymore. When i am thinking about procrastination i think about tasks you can be done with. Even if you meant procrastinating before starting to quit i do not think it holds up as a good example because there is no way to be done with it and if i stop i restart at the beginning.
Because GP phrased it as being absolute. Yeah, perhaps it's true for some. Frankly, those have it easy - there's a clear path to solving the problem: stop doing what you hate, perhaps first resolving the issue that forces you to do the things you hate.
For me and many others here, procrastination is completely orthogonal to whether you hate something or not. That complicates things, because you can't just switch tasks, or jobs, to solve the problem or even to recover your mental strength.
Procrastination is a signal that task makes you feel uncomfortable, but that fear of it can be a result of many issues (boredom, laziness, feeling of incompetence, fear of making what seems as a hard decision, fear of people not liking it, fear of finishing as then you have to move to the next step, etc.). Usually it's far more complex than just "I hate doing it", because there's a deeper reason hidden behind that aversion.
it has written "23rd January 2020" on it when i fetch it and the URL suggests this article has been created (not necessarily written) 21st January 2020 on their CMS.
They don't inherently conflict. Emotions can be logical, so it can stem from both at the same time.
That is, a logical emotion isn't necessarily a contradiction. Procrastination may be more heavily dictated by emotion and that emotion may exist for a logical reason that has deep roots which you still need to introspect and resolve. The emotion itself has a cause. I view the two as more likely to be deeply connected, rather than two things to be regarded separately.
>They don't inherently conflict. Emotions can be logical
This is a semantics issue. Parent means logical in the sense of the process of thought, analysis, etc. Not in "makes sense".
Given that, emotions can be reasonable, but not logical. I.e. they can be valid descriptions of the situation, but they are not themselves some kind of logical analysis or reasoning - they are just feelings.
(On the other hand, a logical analysis can produce emotions. I.e. logically determining "the oxygen in our cabin runs out in 2 hours" can produce panic. And the opposite: an emotion might get us to think / perform a logical analysis).
Most of my interesting papers have resulted from letting go of my "logical" brain and letting my emotions play with the problem until a line of attack opens, then I turn on the logic brain to get it done.
They absolutely conflict - emotions are the driver of most human decisions and rationalization happens later. You can think of it from Neuroscience lens - The Neo Context part of the Brain fires later and takes longer to engage and is less powerful when compared to the Reptilian Brain. This was also explained in Daniel Kahneman work (System 1 vs System 2) Therefore, the key is to manage emotions as the article points out.
This BS detector has a notoriously high false-positive rate. (Which, furthermore, acts as an enabler for making excuses.)
But it actually does detect BS sometimes. Sometimes it even tells you that your mind is in conflict with itself. In the case of school work, maybe some part of you believes the material is useful to understand, but some other part of you is not convinced.
Sometimes that feeling can even nudge you toward harmonizing those parts of your mind. Which can be nice. (But not always truly necessarily.) For example, my CS degree required a digital circuit design (EE) class that I didn't enjoy at all.
But in hindsight, I am now absolutely convinced of its usefulness and relevance. If I could have been convinced of that while I was taking it, it might have been easier to do the work. Although I wouldn't assume that's a realistic approach because maybe I needed to learn it first and then apply it before I could appreciate why it's useful. Sometimes you need to just power through even though you're not feeling it.
Still, the point is that procrastination served as a kind of an indicator that I felt it was BS. It doesn't necessarily fix anything to know that, but it's not wrong either.
Procrastination is and should have definitely more into it. Inaction brings convenience with it and inaction is the only child of procrastination. So, it's due to our inclination to convenience and doesn't say anything yet about the task at hand.
That's the reason people procrastinate on the things at one moment which they don't at others.
Jordan Peterson had a nice distinction about this: there are things you want to do and things you want to BE WANTING to do. I.e. you want to eat a cookie, but you want to be wanting to go to the gym.
In reality, it's pretty hard to consciously make yourself want something (at least for most people), as our conscious brain does not have that much of an effect on our emotions. In practice, what I've found out I (my conscious brain) can do is alter my circumstances - don't store nice food at house so that it's harder to snack, work from the office (not from home) so that it's harder to procrastinate or get so fat that I no longer feel good in my body.
No, I thoroughly enjoy playing Guitar, once I get started I play until my fingertips are hurting. I still have days where I just dont want to pick up the damn thing and put it off.
If you are going to procrastinate somewhere, you might as well do it here on HN. At least you can be inspired about other people's projects, tutorials and learn something etc. But reading generic news articles like this about procrastination? I don't think so.
Too much of anything screws you over. Too much HN feels like hoarding huge piles of clothes in your house. Except, the clothes are knowledge.
The problem is that you’re not structuring the knowledge inside your mind. This can be fine when reading an article but not when you read 20 to a 100 per day.
I’ve been there, I wouldn’t be able to remember what I read.
I think it's a good idea to have discussions about procrastination. It's something a lot of us experience. Something would be wrong if it didn't appear semi-frequently on the front page.
> At least you can be inspired about other people's projects
Or get nauseous at everyone's apparent ability to ship wonderful weekend projects at 25, while you can't finish a damn project in 6 months with twice the work experience.
HN is the geek's social media but it should still be treated as social media for all intents and purposes.
>Chronic procrastination is linked with mental and physical health costs, from depression and anxiety ...
I would argue that anxiety can actually be a cause of procrastination. It turns into a nasty feedback loop that can go something like this:
Anxious -> Procrastination -> [Depression] -> More anxious -> Repeat
Depression of course depending on the circumstances, but it stands to reason if you're a chronic procrastinator that frequently doesn't get done what you want to get done, depression will often follow in some cases.
I had the privilege of experiencing this cycle first hand due to pharmacological reasons when I was on a xanthine derivative for nine months. Methylated xanthine is chemically similar to caffeine, so being hopped up on that 24/7 was ultimately quite unpleasant. It was common for others to only tolerate the same medication for weeks due to anxiety issues. Once I went off the stuff, the procrastination ceased within days. It was like a new lease on life.
Which is ironic, because even years before that I'd always considered myself a bad procrastinator. No doubt habits and, to a greater extent emotional well-being (as the article states) are considerable factors.
I would also argue hypomanic features and ADHD can play a large role in procrastination as well. Furthermore, I suspect the two are often confused for one another and share similar pathology.
Fascinating point about caffeine as a methylxanthine. My experience with caffeine is that it can help kickstart me into doing something I have been putting off, but easily overcompensates by making me start too many things at once and thereby worsening symptoms of ADD.
Yeah, that's the same story with me. Normally I don't even consume caffeine for that reason.
On the occasions I do have it and attempt to accomplish something that requires focus, it elevates energy but worsens focus considerably, even in minute amounts. It's at best a fun way to spin my tires, and at worst the harbinger of productivity destruction.
Some people argue that what we're today are calling ADHD should be referred to as emotional impulsiveness. The argument is that lack of emotional control causes all kinds of symptoms, like inattentiveness or irritability (shocker!). Dr. Russell Barkley makes a compelling argument for it in a number of talk and papers. I highly recommend looking it up, you should be able to find some of his talks on YouTube.
I'm diagnosed with both bipolar disorder 2 (rapid cycling, the one that gives you hypomania) and ADHD (inattentive type). It was a lengthy process to be diagnosed since they are overlapping so much, especially the hypomania part. They are also kind of rarely seen as co-morbid disorders, but apparently it happens and both needs to be properly addressed for anything to have any effect.
(If you're suffering from ADHD or BP2 and feel that you're not seeing that much effect from medication or other treatment it's worth checking out. At least people diagnosed with BP2 and medicated, seeing as the medication usually is very effective.)
I'm diagnosed with ADD aswell, and I wasn't like that before school according to memory's and family members, the symptoms of cptsd align these days even more with me, cuz lots of psychosomatic pain now comes with the ADD, I realized my behavior now is cuz I'm afraid, i don't have any close friends, I make myself smaller around people, I feel like a imposter, don't acknowledge praise at work, I'm constantly afraid of something happening to me around people, I may not actually have ADD but lots of unprocessed traumas from childhood
>Some people argue that what we're today are calling ADHD should be referred to as emotional impulsiveness. The argument is that lack of emotional control causes all kinds of symptoms ...
While that's certainly a major component, I believe sensory stimulation also plays a role. Certain video games for example tend to yield considerably higher dopamine rewards in part due to their elevated degree of stimuli relative to other, less stimulating activities.
It's why I can play certain games to a world-class level, and then by the same token attempt to read technical literature but find myself re-reading the same sentence a dozen times over.
On that front, I've found that if I really attempt to immerse myself in a topic in every way I can, while simultaneously convincing myself on the emotional front that learning whatever I'm attempting to learn will be fantastic-it tends to result in better attention. It's as if my mind has a minimum RPM requirement to operate, and the primary challenge is just achieving a minimum speed that gets the blades moving.
>I highly recommend looking it up, you should be able to find some of his talks on YouTube.
Just watched a (partial?) talk of his, thank you. It was quite informative.[0]
He mentioned a steady stream of fast-metabolized glucose [to the frontal lobe] helping tremendously. That's in weird contrast to my experience, as I tend to avoid virtually all refined sugars. In fact, I also fast for 16 hours every day, finding that my mental clarity and focus is best during the fasting period. I've also noticed throughout my life that large-portion meals will often completely ruin focus.
That said, the brain consumes a surprising amount of energy. His findings make me wonder if neurometabolic disorders aren't at play. The talk in question was given in 2012 however; much has happened since. TBI (severe brain injury) and mTBI (concussion) patients often experience attention deficits following injury, and in the latter case it's thought to be almost exclusively a pathology characterized by disruption of metabolic homeostasis within the brain.
>It was a lengthy process to be diagnosed since they are overlapping so much, especially the hypomania part. They are also kind of rarely seen as co-morbid disorders, but apparently it happens and both needs to be properly addressed for anything to have any effect.
I suspect I have both, but never sought treatment. Looking back, I've probably had each for well over a decade. ADHD was suspected early but seemed to lessen in severity over time; treatment not sought due to aversion of stimulant-class drugs. Only recently did I put the pieces together on the BP2 front. However, I meet the diagnostic criteria for both—especially BP2—with basically 15 years of severe deficits in instrumental planning and life achievement to show for it. Granted, my life from adolescence onward was a radical and difficult departure from normal, so even recognizing the aforementioned long-term deficits was a challenge.
Ironically it took me so long to piece together that I've no longer the luxury of taking a gamble on medication for it. In (unknowingly) keeping with Dr. Barkley's advice, I've established an external goal accountability system via way of throwing myself off a financial cliff from which failure is not an option. Fortunately I'm also in the process of constructing what he calls external prosthesis in the form of highly visible time management systems spanning intra-daily, short-term, and long-term goals. Likewise intense regular exercise, a clean diet, intermittent fasting, proper sleep habits, emotional introspection, and purpose.
Historically I always succeed whenever a fire is lit under my ass, so I'm not too worried. The brain is many things, but in often boils down to patterning. Counter-intuitively, habit formation is most difficult in the beginning. Once established, habits—such as focusing on a single insufficiently-stimul...
I can relate to feeling like it's a creative gift, but the problem is often that it can be hard to communicate your ideas to others. They are often very complex (from the outside point of view) and can be hard to follow (since they are disorganized, scatterbrain). They look like abstract ideas, but they're not. Being able to break them down into more manageable pieces is something I struggle a lot with.
Like everything in neuropsychology it can be hard to nail down conclusive answers. Reduced intake of sugar can have other positive effects that outweighs other negative effects, etc. I think this is the you-do-you area, where you just need to find out what works and what doesn't. Overloading yourself with sensory stimuli, like gaming, often have the same effect as taking medication.
I would try to get treatment for bipolar disorder, it's a very manageable disorder. The medication is really good and has few side effects. At least compared to what you're used to in this field. Identifying bad patterns can be so helpful, and some of them aren't that obvious. The effects can lag behind for many days.
> anxiety can actually be a cause of procrastination. It turns into a nasty feedback loop
That matches my experience. I've not been diagnosed with anything (I'm way too working-class for that), but the worst times of my life were due to this self-reinforcing loop of doom.
The worst part is that the first instinct is to address the procrastination, assuming that "doing" will reduce the causes of anxiety and the latter will just disappear by itself. That's not the case, or at least it wasn't for me - I had to take anxiety under control first.
Yesterday I had a bit of a talk with myself about my behavior pertaining to procrastination.
I am addicted to:
- YouTube
- Gaming
Worse, I have quite a runway due to low living expenses.
I came with a new idea today, I hope it helps anyone else.
I need to get good at generating my own feelings. This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something.
In order to do that I need to stay as close as to the activity itself while doing it myself.
I came up with the following replacement rules:
TouTube —> tell a story to myself. Yesterday I started a story about an alien who is a cat (and I wasn’t thinking about the show Salem even!). This cat/alien has seen humans for 5000 years.
Games —> digital product design. Yesterday I imagined how it is to design a newsletter, in terms of aesthetics and UX.
I hope this idea might help anyone. I sure haven’t read it anywhere.
Hat tip: reddit/r/writingprompts. A poster provides a single line describing a premise and commenters write short stories. It's a great way of getting triggered to be creative.
The difference between gaming / youtube is that writing is producing. You're creating something. And that triggers different parts of your brain making you feel like you're accomplishing something.
Beware though. Writing short stories can become a procrastination in itself! For instance, instead of doing homework, you write a short story.
Managing yourself is also being aware that your mind works at different speeds. Read up on Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow to get the idea. The big challenge each of us faces is learning to live with yourself and striking the right balance.
> This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something.
I do the same. And it's a real pain, because after playing enough games or reading books everything gets repetitive. I feel sooo bored whenever I play a new game.
That's why I wanted to join OSS project, preferably game. It is fun to create stuff that actually works. Well, maybe modding community is the way.
The question is a bit odd if you are human, but let me explain this in short terms.
Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN.
So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no kids crowd. What the Internet calls "first world problems" but even less "important". Just pull yourself together after all, right? (the answer is no, this will of course break you, or anyone, in the long run but that's a huge off the rails discussion).
What side project can I have? How can I fill my day with something useful instead of gaming? There is a profound emptiness for some people. The vast majority of jobs aren't as amazing as you are supposed to pretend in interviews. You stop feeling useful and doubt your place in society. Educated, trained but not applied to something that makes sense.
Do I have to feel guilty about gaming because I am not productive after 6pm or should I invest time to develop myself because HN tells me to? After spending 8 exhausting hours at my job that lines someone else's pockets?
This is where your mental game is played after the "real" problems are not a threat anymore. It's hard for struggling hard working people who bust their asses to pay rent to understand. I know because that's been me. I have seen both sides.
Going to bed anxious because some huge bill just arrived. Now I am going to bed thinking: "what am I even here for?"
And I actually enjoy my job. But in the end I am doing something shallow, something useless. Not advancing humanity or something.
It's hard for me to say as it's a box that I am inside of.
However, it is near impossible to even muster a desire or motive to stop procrastinating when there seems to be no value in anything I'm doing except distraction from the anguish of dragging myself through Life.
Likely it's a feedback loop, the start of which I am not clear on.
Edit: that's it. I'm writing a dating guide soon. I'm seeing this too often on HN.
--- original post ---
> I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me.
I've had this issue for 6 years (between 16 to 22). I was heavily involved with the pickup artist community at the time. I wouldn't call myself a pickup artist, since what I do isn't picking up women and it isn't an art. I just used whatever good advice they had lying around and used it. After 6 years, here are the cliff notes (I studied psychology as well, so you can bet this has some science behind it).
- The most important advice: only take advice you understand or are curious about and test whether it works for you. If it doesn't, that's completely fine. Advice in getting relationships does not have a one size fits all solution. Maybe this will be the case in the future, but for now, no one figured it out yet.
- Learn cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Read David Burns Intimate Connections and Feeling Good.
- Learn Mindfulness Meditation and other forms. Read Search Inside Yourself by Chade Meng-Tan.
- Finding a therapist is always a good idea. They can second those books and they can second CBT.
- Strength + cardiovascular exercise helps (strength for body posture, running for mental sharpness). The best way to get into this IMO is to simply lift a weight a couple of times until your heart starts beating a bit faster. Then when it is beating faster, notice how you're feeling slightly more in ecstacy than before (other than some slight muscle fatigue).
- Fix your fashion. A good fashion doesn't win women over. It is appreciated though. A bad fashion does let them run away. If you don't want them to run away, stay safe, have a good fashion.
- Read up on assorted mating theory and try to find women that are compatible with you personality-wise, and ask yourself where they'd hangout or how you'd recognize them. I was into artsy types, so anyone who looked like an artist, I'd introduce myself to. I have a high openess to experience, artsy people tend to as well. Do a big 5 personality test (no mbti/myer's briggs nonsense).
- Be careful with pickup artist advice. It's toxic and sexist as hell. The sexism is bullshit.
- This stuff is hard work. I have a friend who has slightly better looks than me (I'm not a pretty person, I'm average at best), but he has no initiative. His dates / relationships are far and few in between. I do think he's enjoying life though.
Those are my biggest tips, most are also quite science-backed.
Some personal findings:
- Getting a girlfriend won't fix your life. You need to take care of your own problems. The only thing it does, it enriches your life.
- You need to come from a place where you feel like you don't need a girlfriend, but it would simply be nice or fun or adventurous (or whatever positive emotion you can think about). The best way to do that is to cater to every single need that you have as much as possible without needing someone else to help you with it.
- You need to make your intentions clear as soon as you know them. I sometimes do it when I see a woman. I do steer clear from cliche's. If I think she's hot as hell, I try to mention that in its most eloquent form (e.g. I'd say she has a nice fashion sense, amazing energy and cute -- I would then go into specific detail). This makes things a lot less complicated. Be respectful about it. I always asked for permission to kiss women, verbally. This goes straight against pickup artist literature, but I found that it worked enough of the time and at least I had a good feeling about it to get verbal consent.
- It is a numbers game. You need volume, but if after a 1000 approaches you haven't even felt a real connection and kissed someone, you're doing something wrong and you need a coach. The problem: most coaches suck. The only one that I know is good is called Ratisse (...
The pain you express here is one I recognize, I'm sorry. For me the answer is simple to say and difficult to execute - if I don't value the world I am in, create a world that I do value. Creating worlds is awesome, literally Godlike. And very, very hard work that I try to be patient watching me flail at.
Kindof reminds me of that one poem about changing the world:
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.
I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.
When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.
Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.
See my other comment. There are a lot of single moms in the world, and if you can get past that, likely a lot of them can get past whatever you think is unappealing about yourself.
(I'm not a fan of marriage, however. It's neither necessary nor advisable.)
Holy crap, reading this is creepy since I don't think there's anything to add or subtract that could make it more fitting for myself. I've been feeling like this for a few years now, yet I could never articulate it as well as you have.
I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you describe. Don't get me wrong, I love not being worried about money as much, but something just doesn't feel right. Like, is this it?
Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably not be advancing humanity in any way, not to mention that even making any revenue from them is relatively far-fetched, despite what IndieHackers might suggest. Therefore, I am stuck between working all day long for the unlikely chance that I might 'get rich' with some startup (and then what?) or slide into the comfort of gaming/hobbies/relaxing. Both have pros and cons, both take something from you, be it stress or time wasting. Life is hard.
Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism.
Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game:
> Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably not be advancing humanity in any way, not to mention that even making any revenue from them is relatively far-fetched, despite what IndieHackers might suggest. Therefore, I am stuck between working all day long for the unlikely chance that I might 'get rich' with some startup (and then what?) or slide into the comfort of gaming/hobbies/relaxing. Both have pros and cons, both take something from you, be it stress or time wasting. Life is hard.
Here's the hard truth: You have conditioned to feel guilty if you don't spend your time either producing or consuming.
Here are some blatantly false beliefs that tie into this:
Side projects are only successful if the yield either revenue or attain a vague notion of "impact". Satisfaction of whatever pass time you choose is a function of the amount of money you invest in it (buy the latest gear, invest in increasingly expensive experiences). Professional success is working at a FANG company, selling your startup after VC funding, entering the motivational speaker circuit, being a "thought leader",... "work hard, play hard" etc. etc. You have to "optimize" how you spend time in order to "maximize" your output. Which could be anything ranging from running 5 miles, meditation, writing a blog post and catching up on e-mail between waking up at 4am and breakfast, to monitoring your sleep cycles over reducing your meals to protein shakes to "not waste time eating".
You end up losing something along the way: Yourself. The things that define you as a unique human being. Having your own particular needs, desires, dreams, aspirations and wants that nobody else has.
For instance, you start running 5 miles each morning before dawn because "running invigorates you for the day to come." Well, yeah, sure, but are you actually taking this on because the idea truly resonates with you? Clicks with who you are? Or are you just waking up each morning, secretly resenting the entire thing, because some "thought leader" marketed the idea of "running = road to success" in such a way that you honestly started to believing that?
Your time is yours and yours alone. Nobody else is living your life. Sure, nothing of significance happens if you don't put in the time and effort. But that notion doesn't equate that whatever you have to do needs to answer to modern day ideals such as "useful", "successful", "productive", "rich", or whatever. Nope.
If you want to learn a language, play the guitar, write a novel, join a choir, make a stroll through the park each sunday, cook a nice meal, make photographs, sketch a drawing, read a book, play a game, go travel, etc. etc. etc
... then you should do that first and foremost because that's what YOU want to do with YOUR life...
It's awesome that Elon Musk did build up Tesla and SpaceX practically from thin air. Really awesome. And he likely enjoys doing that and he derives enormous purpose and satisfaction from those enterprises. But I am not Elon Musk. And I certainly do not aspire to become like Elon Musk.
Turns out that success and purpose are measures you have to define for yourself first and foremost. They can be literally anything, as long as they resonate with who you are. You don't have to build rockets in order to feel success. Just baking your own bread and sharing that with a friend can bring intense happine...
All this boils down to finding a purpose in life. At the risk of sounding sexist, I feel this is a burden that largely falls on men only. Women can find purpose through children or being dependent on their man for purpose. It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.
Yep, IMO that sounds sexist. I think especially the second thing is sexist (dependent on a man). I can point to counter examples. There might be a trend in some locales? I wouldn't know. But the way it's written it sounds a bit like it's inherent to the woman (being dependent on the man for purpose), that's why it sounds sexist.
Just pointing it out how it sounds and why it sounds to me that way (I didn't downvote). At the risk of sounding controversial, that's okay (I like to hunt after big sexist issues and this isn't one of them, e.g. convincing men why to be a feminist and what's in it for them).
But I do really appreciate the insight that the biggest biological difference between men and women (ability to give birth for a relatively short period of time, IMO) does put them in a different existential starting position right from the outset. Because they need to deal with this. I'm 30 now and I'm slowly beginning to be like "oh yea kids, that's a thing." (men have it easy that way, IMO)
One. Men can have kids up to high age, yes, but after 35, quality declines and the probability that their children will have face disorders and disabilities increases.
Two. Having children to leave a happy life isn't an obligation. It's an option. Most parents love their kids to bits, but will also grudgingly admit that the drudgery of parenthood is probably the most grueling thing you can do with life. And let's not discount the fact that it's literally playing lottery: disabled kids happen too, and you have to be willing to accept that. If you don't have kids yet, think very hard about why you would want to become a parent; and please be extremely critical towards your own romantic notions.
Why can't men? What's stopping you from finding purpose through being a father?
Gender roles are enforced and affirmed if individuals aren't willing to challenge them and push back in the first place.
Another truth of life is this: You can't always have your cake and eat it at the same time. Everyone gets the same 24/7/365. What you choose to do with it is what matters.
If men and women choose to assume traditional gender roles, then that's because individuals aren't challenging their own beliefs. And by behaving in a traditional gender roles, they implicitly perpetuate the notion that men need to spend their lives in the service of their jobs rather then their children. And that the lot of women is the opposite.
Change starts with yourself.
> being dependent on their man for purpose
Which is, really, hugely unhealthy behavior in itself, regardless of gender. (Yes, many men equally end up doing the same thing: sticking it out with a partner they may resent because they believe that living for your partner is the only purpose in life.)
The same is true for the idea that "children give my life purpose". Think about it. What if the sole reason why you exist, is to give your parents purpose? That sounds incredibly deprecating the lives of your parents, and it places a crushing amount pressure on what you decide to do with your life.
> It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.
It's the challenge every living human faces.
Moreover, so many are looking for purpose in the wrong spots: outside of themselves. They derive from external validation. That is, be perceived and told that you are a good employee, a good sportsman, a good husband, a good father, etc. etc. They look for markers such as wealth or fame to get validated in who they are. And they get depressed if they don't get the validation they crave, especially when they put their standards to unattainable high bars.
The real challenge is simply to learn to live with yourself. To be able to spend a day on your own, with your own thoughts, in your own body. To be a kind and loving friend to who you are as a person.
This is something you can only attain through time, practice and self-awareness. Your own mind is literally a house you build for yourself to live in. The ideas and beliefs you absorb are the bricks and mortar of that house.
If you are careless to the building materials, I can telly you that living in your own mind won't be very pleasant. Invariably, there will be times in your life when you will be alone or on your own. Like, when you move out to live alone, or when you divorce, or when you travel alone, or when you are old and alone. If, by then, you aren't able to live with your own thoughts and feelings, well, life will be a struggle.
Once, during an existential crisis, I saw an opportunity to become a step-dad, and I did. I suppose you could say that I talked myself into making it my primary purpose in life. That wasn't hard, though--working hard to make sure a kid without a father has a reasonably happy early life is about as close to perfectly meaningful as you can get.
There are a lot of problems in our society with being a step-father, and though I'll say I did a great job, I rarely hear from said kids. That's life, but what I did is "in the bank" in my way of thinking, and it's perhaps my proudest accomplishment.
For philosophical reasons, I don't think most (if any) people should have kids. But once they're here, they're as worthy a cause as anything else I know of.
(Unfortunately, too old to do it again, and meaning has become a struggle again.)
I am familiar with him and fond of his videos, generally speaking. How much of his 'teachings' I can apply is a separate matter.
> Here's the hard truth: You have conditioned to feel guilty if you don't spend your time either producing or consuming.
True. Despite not being a huge fan of consumerism, I am convinced it is shaping my decisions one way or another. Since our whole system is built around this, there's no telling where the need ends and the mindless shopping begins. For example, if I get a tear in my favorite T-shirt, I'd probably buy a new one, while my grandmother would have tried to repair it.
What is definitely true is that I have conditioned myself to produce. Part of it might be simply societal pressure, part of it might be my personal ambition to 'be someone', but I think a lot of it is the realization that all the dreams I had as a child are slowly becoming crushed by the realities of adulthood, my limited energy, my limited brain. Because of all this, I realize that my existence is not special in any way. I am just some other soul lost in the crowd, not glowing in any way. Some day I will die and the world will not have been better or worse because of it.
Funny you bring up Elon. For all the criticism he is getting lately, I can't help but think of him as the person I want to be. This guy dares to not only think about a future with space exploration and hyperloops in it, but also does something about it. Say what you will, but there are not many people on the same level of audaciousness as him. With that said, I will never even be close to what Elon is and accepting this is hard.
The more I read and learn, the more disappointed I am with the world. I feel like apart from maybe 2-3% of the population, the rest is strictly concerned with how they can impress their friends at an upcoming party, sports, how good or bad the new Avenger movie is, how to remodel their kitchen and so on. The whole world is driven almost entirely by advertising, PR, marketing, influencers. It's driving me mad at times, thinking about how little true achievements are celebrated. Just a random one - China just released some pictures from the moon and seeing them gave me chills. I believe few people would care at all about this.
And I just don't know if this is the way things eventually end up or if the world could have been vastly different with just a few different twists of the historical timeline.
> Because of all this, I realize that my existence is not special in any way. I am just some other soul lost in the crowd, not glowing in any way. Some day I will die and the world will not have been better or worse because of it.
The notion that "humans are special" and "individuals are special" is exactly part of the problem. We are conditioned to believe that we are special, the carrot being that consumerism/producerism makes us "special", whereas "not being special" is perceived as "something very bad".
Why exactly is that?
Thing is, the existential angst you feel is exactly the stuff that has sparked the Great Age of Philosophy starting with Immanuel Kant and David Hume.
Without going into details, try to turn your thinking around on this one. Why would it be bad that your existence isn't "special" as far as the Universe is concerned? I can assure you that none of the famous dead are laying awake, fretting over whether or not their lives have mattered in the course of History, for instance.
Some people even go so far as to deconstruct their own Self by continuing this line of reasoning. Ego Death is a thing (and it doesn't necessarily involve the usage of LSD).
Turn to yourself instead and construct meaning for yourself. If you want to feel purpose, special and a sense of self, the best thing you can do is validate your own Self. Who you are, what you like, what you dream of,... regardless of what society expects from you. It's called "self love".
> I will never even be close to what Elon is and accepting this is hard.
And I can assure that Elon Musk isn't happier or unhappier then you are. You are not Elon and and Elon isn't you.
He has to deal with the crushing pressure of a few companies that are highly demanding. He has to deal with the complexity and the ethics. He has also to deal with the demands of a very large family (I don't know how much his own kids actually see him, for one, or what their relationship is like)
My point is that the image of you have of Elon and walking in his shoes are two very, very, very different things. And the latter might be far more and harder then you are bargaining for.
There's a difference in being inspired by him and applying his level of audaciousness to your daily life in a sensible manner; and trying to emulate him in a way you can't possibly hope to attain. Guess what will yield the best chance for happiness and purpose?
> I believe few people would care at all about this.
Are you sure? As that your (irrational) beliefs talking, or have you actually done a survey across a representative sample of humans, excluding your own biases, in order to determine this?
I have travelled across the globe a few times now, and having met many, the optimist in me tends to believe that most people do care if you talk with them in earnest. It's just not the image we tend to see as powerful people have invested in a system that games our biases, fears and desires again and again.
> Well, yeah, sure, but are you actually taking this on because the idea truly resonates with you? Clicks with who you are? Or are you just waking up each morning, secretly resenting the entire thing, because some "thought leader" marketed the idea of "running = road to success" in such a way that you honestly started to believing that?
Thanks, I needed to read this.
Ironically, one of the few areas I don't have this with is running. For one of the unique things that defines me is a talent for it and I run whenever I'm alone and traveling on foot since I'm an impatient fellow.
I like to think that Maslov's Hierachy of Needs has a deeper meaning than just describing that you shouldn't buy an iPhone before you have food in the fridge or whatever.
The sort of emotions and problems being felt at the higher levels of the hierachy are just as important to the psyche as the emotions and problems being felt at the lower levels of the hierachy.
Even if it is "first world problems", not being fulfilled in the right way can be very distressing.
When examined and compared, Maslow's Self-Actualization -- the top of his pyramid of needs -- and Nietzsche's Will To Power are practically the same thing. Both exist to, in some part, address the emotional problems at the top levels of the hierarchy, as well as the more practical implications of personal growth.
> I need to get good at generating my own feelings. This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something.
I'm also videogame addict.
I've found that listening to game music/soundtracks (mostly instrumental) while programming really helps me achieve the similar feelings and even motivates me to get stuff done.
Are you listening to music just from games you've played, or game music in general?
I do listen a lot to music from games, movies and series for that emotional boost, but it always has to be something I've already played/watched and engaged with emotionally in the past. The music doesn't generate new emotions in me, it pulls on the past experiences. Listening to arbitrary soundtracks wouldn't work on me.
Have you heard the album "Sun" before? It's by Thomas Bergersen, and it's quite amazing. I'd recommend Empire of Angels if you just want to listen to one song.
Quite ethereal, and though I've never seen the movie, I love the soundtrack.
I had a similar conversation with myself recently. In the spirit of sharing coping mechanisms...
What I found helpful was to dig deeper into why I enjoyed playing the genres of games that I do.
My favourites are MOBA/ARPG/MMORPG and there was quite some overlap in what I was enjoying.
Stuff like:
- MOBA
- Skill based gameplay
- You get better over time
- You get to play with/against people better than you and learn from them
- There exists an optimal strategy for each encounter you can discover
- Team based gameplay
- Work with others to secure objectives
- Win/lose as a team
- Sense of camaraderie
- Ability to be altruistic
- Winning/Losing streaks
- Easy to track
- Easy to turn into a short-term goal "Win the next game"
- Short turnaround time
- Games last between 15-30 minutes
- Little downtime between games
- Very easy to get back "into the action"
Now I'm trying to organise my programming activities to give me the same sort of satisfaction:
- Programming
- Skill based gameplay => Skill based progression
- You get better over time
- Join a slack/discord and ask questions to learn from others
- There exists an optimal strategy for each task you can discover
- Team based gameplay => Community
- Join a slack/discord
- Sense of camaraderie (E.g. "We're all gophers!")
- Ability to be altruistic (Help newbies)
- Start something//Contribute to open source projects to work with others
- Winning/Losing streaks => Commit streaks
- Easy to track on github
- Easy to turn into a short-term goal "Commit once today"
- Short turnaround time => Short coding sessions
- Setting a timer for 5/10/15 minutes and following a tutorial
- Little downtime between games => Try to minimize distractions
- Move straight from one tutorial from another
What if you'd create like a software "game". Aka, a data structure and algorithm Hacker Rank thingy and then pair up with one other person over voice chat to solve the problem.
I like how you're gamifying coding by putting it in the context of what motivates you about games in the first place.
I actually reached the same conclusion as you after playing a lot of League of Legends. Why do I play that game instead of working on my projects? Because of all the reasons you mentioned, but most importantly because I am good at it and feel like I progress by getting better with each match. There's also the satisfaction of winning, especially when the odds seems against you.
I am also trying to find the same feelings while working, but getting the same rewards takes a lot more time than while gaming. Also, it's a lot easier to feel that you are bad at it or that you are not learning as much, or that maybe you are working on the wrong thing when programming than when gaming.
Also, I am really missing a real-life leaderboard. I am pretty competitive and seeing others that are way better than me motivates myself to work hard in order to get to their level. I am always looking for success stories and seeing actual numbers from great projects. I found that IndieHackers is a good place to find motivation from others' work.
I've made a similar realization recently. It seems that I've built a life around consumption. Watching TV series, movies, playing games. I think we're not made for this. There's nothing there to really push us to grow as a person (especially if it's all we do), thus the emptiness (and often loneliness). I've thought about how to restructure my life into one of production instead of consumption, but it's difficult (to find what to produce, and then to get started) and takes so much more effort than passively consuming whatever media teams of people spent weeks/months/years creating.
I agree. I’ve been able to do it one time. And I promoted it on HN with a public facing account (this account is pseudo anonymous + my super hero name, if I’d be one).
Good insight, I share your problem. Producing instead of consuming, in my free time, is what I like to do. But nothing seems worth it or I lack the skills and resources to do so. And so I remain where I am. Quit comfortably, all in all, but couldn't it be better?
Does it need to be better? There are many quotes about simply being content in life. I finally realized it's okay for me to spend time playing Call of Duty if that's what I want to do. If I wasn't doing that, I'd most likely be doing some other hobby that may not have any particular value either. As long as I take care of my health, family, and job, my "spare" time is mine.
Edit: Yuck, that sounds worse when I read it back. I do volunteer and donate to charity as well. I'm not completely selfish.
If you feel fulfilled, then no, maybe not. Many of us are, however, speaking from the perspective that we do feel it needs to be better because we feel empty and unfulfilled.
What helped for the gaming part for me is that I went 100% linux on all my machines. Since very few games work great under linux it solved my issue with gaming too much.
I'm still addicted to youtube tho. Haven't really solved that part yet.
> Since very few games work great under linux it solved my issue with gaming too much.
A noble approach, but not true: (native Linux) Steam works great -- I've run it on Fedora and Linux Mint -- and plenty of games run flawlessly via WINE or Proton. Brand-spankin-new AAA games sometimes have problems, but the vast majority of gaming works well.
For example, my latest addiction is Rimworld, which runs natively on Linux via the native Linux Steam client.
i don't think this will work. telling a story is not watching youtube and gaming is not digital product design. the first two are leisure and the other two are toil. sure it might work for two days but i will guarantee you will be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and you will be back to square one after that. you can't just wave a magic want and substitute leisure activity with toil. your mind might want you to, but your body simply won't let you. try watching netflix and reading a book as substitutes. or go rehab by changing your environment to somewhere less digital.
> The task we’re putting off is making us feel bad – perhaps it’s boring, too difficult or we’re worried about failing – and to make ourselves feel better in the moment, we start doing something else, like watching videos
I always thought this was the agreed upon perspective. I actually had never heard that some people explained it as a time management problem.
I really don't see the point of studying statistical correlations between cat videos and heart disease.
The way I see it, these statistical correlations give you clues about where to start looking for mechanisms of causation, but as long as there is no causal mechanism, there's just nothing there. -- It's like a detective forming a theory of a crime so they know where to start looking for evidence. But the evidence is what a court is going to need to convict someone.
If you look purely at correlations, I bet that almost any psychological condition correlates with almost any other, to the extent that they are all caused by an unobserved outside factor. Let's call that factor "having a shitty life". A shitty life probably involves having a boring job, which makes you more likely to procrastinate. But a shitty life will also make it more likely that you'd be an alcoholic, drug-addict, suffer from depression and/or anxiety, etc etc
Instead of trying to force yourself to do the thing, refuse to do anything else. Instead of replacing activity with another, just sit still either eyes closed or looking at a wall or desk (not a screen or anything entertaining). Only replacement activity should be no activity, pure boredom. Don't judge yourself and don't feel quilt. If you are stubborn with this, you may notice that you start doing the thing as an impulse without seeing the decision to act coming. Somehow the motivation is there but your constant emotional monitoring is blocking it.
If you start to procrastinate with the procrastination avoidance, all hope is lost.
I have been remote working for many years. And I have done a handful of office working. I would have considered myself (probably wrongly) the worst procrastinator. It seemed like most of the people I worked with were able to get things done better than I could.
And I have been on the "overwork" part of the spectrum where I'm all about working until burnout.
It's about emotions, yes. But that's not very specific. This is one of those subjects where 10 different people could give 10 different explanations and nobody would be wrong. It's a rat's nest of issues. A bunch of threads tightly wound to create a mess of a problem.
Fixing a procrastination problem probably takes more of a gut feel than an attempt to understand it.
I don't know what causes it, but most of the time what fixes it is focus.
Why do students cram? Because time constraints strip away the BS and they're only left with figuring out a strategy for studying.
What are my best strategies to stop procrastinating? I'm out of money. Time is running out. I have a gun to my head.
Getting things done is sometimes like trying to reach through a heavy fog to snatch a pin head size blinking orb of light. The moving swirling fog distracts and makes you lose site of the blinking thing you're trying to keep in sight.
What you have to do is mentally banish the fog and go straight for that blinking thing and grab it.
Another issue for me is a failure to commit. The more I think about all the stuff I want to do, the less I'm willing to put the effort into doing one thing. Possibilities are more interesting than reality. Even as reality kills off possibilities, I can always spin up more. Reading HN is like a staging zone where I'm not having to commit to anything. I'm not getting anything done, but at least I'm still keeping all the possibilities in play. It's like a dude who likes to play the field rather than settle down and get married. ;)
As I mentioned above, certain realities I can't ignore. Paying bills is a major one.
>Fixing a procrastination problem probably takes more of a gut feel than an attempt to understand it.
The article mentions mindfulness and I think it can replace the gut feel as a way to understand the root cause of procrastination. One can literally observe what is happening in your mind and body and what is happening around you before, during and after procrastination events and work from there to address anything you want to change. Learning about and practicing self-compassion [1] should, IMHO, help deal with it as well.
"I have been remote working for many years. And I have done a handful of office working. I would have considered myself (probably wrongly) the worst procrastinator."
Same here.
I have the feeling the trick is to get guidance but not too much.
I have many "startup ideas" but I never execute them.
I hate it if I get a manager above me that makes too much decisions for me.
But working with some nice people who let me do my job without imposing some working hours, tech stack or whatever on me and only give me some interesting problems to work on and I stop procrastinating.
>The more I think about all the stuff I want to do, the less I'm willing to put the effort into doing one thing. Possibilities are more interesting than reality. Even as reality kills off possibilities, I can always spin up more.
Well put. I suffer from that as well. Setting aside the maddening aspects of that, it does have a bright side:
If you spend years weaving together complimentary possibilities, and the rate at which you spin them up is greater than the rate at which they die—you can come up with some really interesting composite ideas that over time will seem more compelling to execute.
Isn't this like the 3rd or 4th post about procrastination on the frontpage the past few days? People seem to love to procrastinate by reading about procrastination.
Perhaps. HN has had a steady stream of procrastination articles ever since I remembered. They're of interest to those of us that come here to procrastinate :).
Tim Pychyl, who's ideas this article discusses, goes in to these ideas much more deeply in a really fantastic video here: [1]
I've watched a ton of videos on procrastination, and read a lot about it, and this video is head and shoulders above everything else. Highly recommended.
He also has the iProcrastinate Podcast[2], which also has some useful and interesting episodes.
While I've spent a lot of time reading everything he's written, I never felt that any of it helped me overcome my procrastination. It was just recognition and a shallow, fleeting satisfaction in that recognition.
I don't think it helped him (Tim of WbW) either. I don't think it was even supposed to help; reading his writings, I never had the feeling he was offering a solution -- rather, he was fascinated by the phenomenon, and was doing a kind of nerdy, technical analysis of his state. One that I (and others) could resonate with.
What actually helped me was framing the issue in a somewhat buddhist manner. I purchased his Panic Monster and the Monkey, sat them on my desk, and tried to look at them (and thus at my procrastination) with kindness and acceptance.
FWIW, my procrastination hasn't gone away (here I am, on HN); but it shrunk, and it stopped being such a big problem for me.
I can't believe the state-of-the-art thinking was genuinely that it's a time management problem. Surely some self-awareness of the mental battle goes a long way to quashing that quickly. I'm not thinking "I estimate this will take 1 hour". I'm thinking "I don't want to do this", and there's a tension between inevitability and the unpleasantness.
Same here. Long ago I realised that I have a tendency to procrastinate when faced with having to do things I don't want to do (while conversely being quite good at being focussed on the things I do want to do). Time management only comes into it in the the sense that I want to spend less time doing things I don't like and more time doing the things I do like. Doesn't seem a particularly surprising piece of self-insight to be honest. So, when I realise I'm procrastinating, i.e. faced with something I don't want to do, questions are: Do I really have to do it? If I really have to do it, why don't I want to do it and can I make it any less bad? And if I have to do it and can't turn it into something I really want to do, why can't I simply just get it done and out of the way so I can get on with the other things I actually want to do instead? I wouldn't be surprised if this was generally applicable to some or many other people too.
I was incredibly unproductive during the first half of my 20s and procrastinated to the point of setting my career back a few years. Around the time I turned 26 I was suddenly able to actually do what I said I would, get stuff done, and in fact be extremely productive.
So even though I've overcome it myself, I have no idea what advice to give to someone who's struggling with procrastination.
Some topics on HN really need little more than a title to trigger a good comment thread. A lot of people don't even read TFA anyway and the best comments come from personal experience. Sometimes I think a random topic generator would suffice - which is almost what Ask HN is, but not quite.
Is procrastination really the biggest ailment we suffer in today's world? There's an awful lot of concern over it. Although remote working is possibly its biggest contributor when it comes to professional procrastination. I mean, when in an office surrounded by others, sure, you could, but only if everyone else is and that's not likely to be the case.
> Is procrastination really the biggest ailment we suffer in today's world?
I think about procrastination as part a larger discipline problem. Other parts of the same problem are people's lack of willingness to exercise and eat properly. When framed in a larger sense, I do think it is a big ailment in todays society.
I noticed that I procrastinate when I have to do things I don't want to do OR if I don't know how to do them. An example for the latter would be a programming issue. If I don't know how to solve it or I expect it to be a big hassle I procrastinate away from it.
Solving difficult problems is a main part of my job. I love a challenge and get totally absorbed by a good problem. I read everything I find about the topic, I try different solutions, I think about it the whole time. But once I have figured out a solution and I have to do all the tedious work that comes after, I lose interest and start doing other things.
Programming is an interesting example. I get to work when I have to think how to refactor everything in a nice way, for example, but once I find the right design and I see it works, changing everything becomes a mechanical task, and I tend to postpone that tedious work to try to solve some weird problem I found by chance in some irc channel or stackexchange.
I think that this diversity is great. We should work together!
I've learned the most valuable things from the HowToADHD channel:
1.
Procrastination is related to fear, and the fight, flight & freeze responses for work. Procrastination = flight. Pulling an all-nighter = fight (gets things done, but at a health cost). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlObsAeFNVk
2.
For people with ADHD (e.g. myself) there are two times: NOW and NOT NOW.
That way, it is hard to do any activity, unless is urgent (e.g. deadline). Anything for "some time" (or "tomorrow") is going to stay that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkOZhROvA4
...
Also, I recommend "Driven to Distraction: Recognizing and Coping with Attention Deficit Disorder" by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey. I discovered this book thanks to HN and a post about dyslexia. The book shows quite a few stories of adults with AD(H)D and how do they cope with work and relationships. The stories are diverse (it is certainly not all ill-behaved boys), and give a point of reference.
I wished I had known that book before. I got diagnosed only the last year, being 33 years old. Before turning 30 I hadn't suspected having ADHD, as I had quite a few misconceptions both about the condition, and what is "typical" in humans.
> When you tell yourself "just one more game" or "just one more post", or "just one more video" and end up doing 3-5 hours more, do that with your other tasks too! "just one line of code", "just one tutorial", "just one rep", "just one line of reading/writing".
And from a linked Reddit post:
"Eat the frog first doesn't work for many of the groups who struggle with procrastination. My ADHD group often gets newcomers who say they've tried everything. There must be something terribly wrong with them because trying to eat the frog first makes things worse for them.
In fact, trying to eat the frog first makes it worse for most people with ADHD. We do better with small things, and even better with a small, well-chosen fun thing before the important thing. It builds dopamine and success and reduces anxiety. Also, sometimes we need to de-stress. Yes, I let my kids play video games after school. They relaxed until after supper. They knew that if they didn't get their work done before class started, and were cranky from lack of sleep, we'd have to change the rules."
Rationally I know what is time (heck, I did my PhD in physics, so I have an edge here). When it comes to actions... I often zone out, daydream, get distracted by a random post, get too focused so I spend well more time than I realize on something I didn't plan to do, etc.
Once I realized this NOW vs NOT NOW, I set some triggers to make a project "NOW".
Of course, one natural trigger is "the final deadline is tomorrow", but it gets risky and unhealthy.
Other is (I am a freelancer, so there is no natural "we are in the office"):
- setting coworking sessions (then during a meeting there is NOW for the project)
- setting regular meetings (to create a lot of smaller deadlines)
- I try to respond to emails only twice a day, in blocks (so a short question won't turn into NOW against my wished)
- I essentially dropped the hope of doing things well in advance... and it was good. For example, when I give a talk, I book time the same day to prepare it. And it works. The other alternative is to agonize over a week, and they still (in a self-hating mood) prepare things the last minute, but without booking enough time or energy.
Still learning that, so I am very open for pointers.
I thought you might appreciate this clip from a lecture by Dr. Russell Barkley which explains how to use the environment to compensate for ADHD (externalize everything - time, to-do's, motivation, rewards, feedback) and how to keep your willpower reserves high (frequent breaks, positive self-talk and positive mental pictures, meditation and exercise).
Maybe it is just a metaphor. Then it is one I find enlightening.
However, stress (yes, including work stress) kicks your sympathetic nervous system into high gear, as you put it. (With all other effects, from hormone levels to heart rate.)
Sure, effects of short-term and long-term stress may be different, but the statement "because it's nothing like actual" is far from obvious.
I can't blame anyone for procrastinating if they don't like what they are doing. I procrastinate a lot more if I am not satisfied with what I am supposed to be doing.
367 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 316 ms ] threadBut you could also hate starting (a project for a job you hate) but you keep on doing it, ignoring those feelings, because we all have bills to pay.
I think the second one is what you need to be aware of.
Medication does make it a lot better and I don't procrastinate nearly as much as I used to, but before I started taking it, there were times where I'd lie on the sofa with the remote control next to me and I would just stare at the ceiling thinking about watching that movie I've been wanting to watch and I still couldn't bring myself to do it.
https://battlepenguin.com/philosophy/mindful-meditation-is-n...
Mindful is a great tool. It needn't be vipassana. Many People who do vipassana often are at a point where its a last resort before something worse.
Meditation didn't work for me because it implied taking some time out my day to do it, and that would just and either become a way to procrastinate or something that I would procrastinate doing and contribute to my anxiety.
That aside, I think there's a lot of confusion about the terms "meditation," "mindful mediation" and "mindfulness" and I'm not sure I know the correct way to use them, but the above is what I mean when I say "mindfulness."
I find that by letting the emotions I'd like to avoid come to my consciousness -- i.e. meditating -- I get used to them. That frequently outright removes my procrastinating problem.
> that I would procrastinate doing and contribute to my anxiety.
You don't have to schedule meditation. Just do it when you feel like it, expand your brief pauses. And if you don't feel like meditating for weeks or months, so be it.
I find the only thing that comes in the way of meditation is the mind’s attempt to escape while under duress. People tend to prefer to drink, watch something, and even blame others, rather than sit and close eyes and feel.
Thats why i think its important to actually have a meditation buddy to help out with starting, and when its particularly tough.
The more an ego needs to meditate, it seems that it develops more and more aversion - i sort of think its one major cause for many mental pathologies.
In the beginning, you will fight your ego, certain traumas will surface, you learn to accept alot about urself too. The less that disturbs the ego, the calmer it is.
Even to this my meditation is disturbed, but im a much calmer person.
Mind you its complex too, could be a food habits/mild allergy contributing to existing factors. Did you try a water fast with some power coffee?
You can dm me and we can talk more about this.
The one from ADD makes me do... nothing. I feel paralyzed somehow. I scream at myself in my mind to finally start the task, I know I have to but my body won't move. It's hard to explain.
Then there is the procrastination as described in the article. I think it makes me do something else instead that I have put off, like cleaning or the sudden urge to finally learn a new programming language / framework. Like, I feel better and worse at the same time! I did something productive, at the cost of what I should have done.
They might overlap, I guess.
Now, on the good days I actually do the things I want to do or need to do, but on the days when I procrastinate, I tend to do the type where I do something else. The days where I get completely paralyzed are far less frequent now. Part of it is the medication but another part was learning to control my guilt and anxiety over not doing what I'm "supposed to." This is why I tell people that medication is not a magic solution to your problems, it'll help but you'll still have bad days and it won't work automatically, you still gotta put in the effort to get better, the medicine will just help a bit with that.
So medication can help with ADD, but those emotions need to be addressed. I stopped mine after 4 years.
If it's not too personal, could you give me a rough idea of what sort of medication you are on? In the last couple of years I started thinking maybe I should try something... Meditation has helped a lot but there are still weeks when my emotions get a bit out of control and nothing gets done.
As far as medication itself goes, I started with Atomoxetine (Straterra) and that barely worked for me, I also tried Methylphenidate in extended release form (Concerta) which does work but came with an annoying amount of anxiety. What works best for me is Lisdexamfetamine (Vyvanse), which is basically extended release amphetamine. I take 70mg daily in the morning and it works really well and doesn't produce any side effects for me. 70mg is considered a large dose, but seeing how I can sleep well and even take naps during the day (if I want), and have no anxiety, irritability or tachycardia when taking it, it seems to be an appropriate dose for me. A friend of mine suspected he had ADHD and took a much lower dose of Vyvanse (10 mg), and he was shaky and irritable right away, so in the end his diagnosis wasn't ADHD but depression, which can have similar symptoms.
Also when I started, I took fluoxetine and clonazepam to help with depression and anxiety that was caused by living with untreated ADHD, but I'm not taking that anymore because I don't need to, following doctor's advice, of course, never stop taking anti-depressants by yourself, withdrawal can be harsh if you don't take care and taper the dose off gradually. These helped me keep my mood in the right space so I could get started on working towards fixing my problems. Now I'm just taking Vyvanse, and while the dose might decrease in the future, it's likely that I'll be taking it for the rest of my life, or at least until heart problems make it impossible to keep taking it.
I hope this helps, even if it's more information that you asked for. The point I wanted to make is that while medication is there to help, it doesn't magically make the problems go away (even if the right combination can feel that way), and the same symptoms can mean many different things, so psychiatric medicine can involve a lot of trial and error, especially if you're unlucky. I found it very important to keep careful track of how my state of mind changed as I took the medicine and to report it as accurately as possible to my psychiatrist.
For me and many others here, procrastination is completely orthogonal to whether you hate something or not. That complicates things, because you can't just switch tasks, or jobs, to solve the problem or even to recover your mental strength.
I also put off tasks I'm not confident about even if I'll like them because I fear the outcome. Failing makes me depressed.
Neither of these are hating the task itself.
That is, a logical emotion isn't necessarily a contradiction. Procrastination may be more heavily dictated by emotion and that emotion may exist for a logical reason that has deep roots which you still need to introspect and resolve. The emotion itself has a cause. I view the two as more likely to be deeply connected, rather than two things to be regarded separately.
This is a semantics issue. Parent means logical in the sense of the process of thought, analysis, etc. Not in "makes sense".
Given that, emotions can be reasonable, but not logical. I.e. they can be valid descriptions of the situation, but they are not themselves some kind of logical analysis or reasoning - they are just feelings.
(On the other hand, a logical analysis can produce emotions. I.e. logically determining "the oxygen in our cabin runs out in 2 hours" can produce panic. And the opposite: an emotion might get us to think / perform a logical analysis).
He also has a full playlist on human behavior which is very interesting
But it actually does detect BS sometimes. Sometimes it even tells you that your mind is in conflict with itself. In the case of school work, maybe some part of you believes the material is useful to understand, but some other part of you is not convinced.
Sometimes that feeling can even nudge you toward harmonizing those parts of your mind. Which can be nice. (But not always truly necessarily.) For example, my CS degree required a digital circuit design (EE) class that I didn't enjoy at all.
But in hindsight, I am now absolutely convinced of its usefulness and relevance. If I could have been convinced of that while I was taking it, it might have been easier to do the work. Although I wouldn't assume that's a realistic approach because maybe I needed to learn it first and then apply it before I could appreciate why it's useful. Sometimes you need to just power through even though you're not feeling it.
Still, the point is that procrastination served as a kind of an indicator that I felt it was BS. It doesn't necessarily fix anything to know that, but it's not wrong either.
That's the reason people procrastinate on the things at one moment which they don't at others.
In reality, it's pretty hard to consciously make yourself want something (at least for most people), as our conscious brain does not have that much of an effect on our emotions. In practice, what I've found out I (my conscious brain) can do is alter my circumstances - don't store nice food at house so that it's harder to snack, work from the office (not from home) so that it's harder to procrastinate or get so fat that I no longer feel good in my body.
Too much of anything screws you over. Too much HN feels like hoarding huge piles of clothes in your house. Except, the clothes are knowledge.
The problem is that you’re not structuring the knowledge inside your mind. This can be fine when reading an article but not when you read 20 to a 100 per day.
I’ve been there, I wouldn’t be able to remember what I read.
With that said, you do learn something.
If only! Most of it is actually just semi useful information rather than knowledge.
Or get nauseous at everyone's apparent ability to ship wonderful weekend projects at 25, while you can't finish a damn project in 6 months with twice the work experience.
HN is the geek's social media but it should still be treated as social media for all intents and purposes.
I would argue that anxiety can actually be a cause of procrastination. It turns into a nasty feedback loop that can go something like this:
Anxious -> Procrastination -> [Depression] -> More anxious -> Repeat
Depression of course depending on the circumstances, but it stands to reason if you're a chronic procrastinator that frequently doesn't get done what you want to get done, depression will often follow in some cases.
I had the privilege of experiencing this cycle first hand due to pharmacological reasons when I was on a xanthine derivative for nine months. Methylated xanthine is chemically similar to caffeine, so being hopped up on that 24/7 was ultimately quite unpleasant. It was common for others to only tolerate the same medication for weeks due to anxiety issues. Once I went off the stuff, the procrastination ceased within days. It was like a new lease on life.
Which is ironic, because even years before that I'd always considered myself a bad procrastinator. No doubt habits and, to a greater extent emotional well-being (as the article states) are considerable factors.
I would also argue hypomanic features and ADHD can play a large role in procrastination as well. Furthermore, I suspect the two are often confused for one another and share similar pathology.
I suspect this is related to caffeine's dopaminergic action (dopamine regulates anticipatory training): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Effects_on_striatal_d...
On the occasions I do have it and attempt to accomplish something that requires focus, it elevates energy but worsens focus considerably, even in minute amounts. It's at best a fun way to spin my tires, and at worst the harbinger of productivity destruction.
I'm diagnosed with both bipolar disorder 2 (rapid cycling, the one that gives you hypomania) and ADHD (inattentive type). It was a lengthy process to be diagnosed since they are overlapping so much, especially the hypomania part. They are also kind of rarely seen as co-morbid disorders, but apparently it happens and both needs to be properly addressed for anything to have any effect.
(If you're suffering from ADHD or BP2 and feel that you're not seeing that much effect from medication or other treatment it's worth checking out. At least people diagnosed with BP2 and medicated, seeing as the medication usually is very effective.)
While that's certainly a major component, I believe sensory stimulation also plays a role. Certain video games for example tend to yield considerably higher dopamine rewards in part due to their elevated degree of stimuli relative to other, less stimulating activities.
It's why I can play certain games to a world-class level, and then by the same token attempt to read technical literature but find myself re-reading the same sentence a dozen times over.
On that front, I've found that if I really attempt to immerse myself in a topic in every way I can, while simultaneously convincing myself on the emotional front that learning whatever I'm attempting to learn will be fantastic-it tends to result in better attention. It's as if my mind has a minimum RPM requirement to operate, and the primary challenge is just achieving a minimum speed that gets the blades moving.
>I highly recommend looking it up, you should be able to find some of his talks on YouTube.
Just watched a (partial?) talk of his, thank you. It was quite informative.[0]
He mentioned a steady stream of fast-metabolized glucose [to the frontal lobe] helping tremendously. That's in weird contrast to my experience, as I tend to avoid virtually all refined sugars. In fact, I also fast for 16 hours every day, finding that my mental clarity and focus is best during the fasting period. I've also noticed throughout my life that large-portion meals will often completely ruin focus.
That said, the brain consumes a surprising amount of energy. His findings make me wonder if neurometabolic disorders aren't at play. The talk in question was given in 2012 however; much has happened since. TBI (severe brain injury) and mTBI (concussion) patients often experience attention deficits following injury, and in the latter case it's thought to be almost exclusively a pathology characterized by disruption of metabolic homeostasis within the brain.
>It was a lengthy process to be diagnosed since they are overlapping so much, especially the hypomania part. They are also kind of rarely seen as co-morbid disorders, but apparently it happens and both needs to be properly addressed for anything to have any effect.
I suspect I have both, but never sought treatment. Looking back, I've probably had each for well over a decade. ADHD was suspected early but seemed to lessen in severity over time; treatment not sought due to aversion of stimulant-class drugs. Only recently did I put the pieces together on the BP2 front. However, I meet the diagnostic criteria for both—especially BP2—with basically 15 years of severe deficits in instrumental planning and life achievement to show for it. Granted, my life from adolescence onward was a radical and difficult departure from normal, so even recognizing the aforementioned long-term deficits was a challenge.
Ironically it took me so long to piece together that I've no longer the luxury of taking a gamble on medication for it. In (unknowingly) keeping with Dr. Barkley's advice, I've established an external goal accountability system via way of throwing myself off a financial cliff from which failure is not an option. Fortunately I'm also in the process of constructing what he calls external prosthesis in the form of highly visible time management systems spanning intra-daily, short-term, and long-term goals. Likewise intense regular exercise, a clean diet, intermittent fasting, proper sleep habits, emotional introspection, and purpose.
Historically I always succeed whenever a fire is lit under my ass, so I'm not too worried. The brain is many things, but in often boils down to patterning. Counter-intuitively, habit formation is most difficult in the beginning. Once established, habits—such as focusing on a single insufficiently-stimul...
Like everything in neuropsychology it can be hard to nail down conclusive answers. Reduced intake of sugar can have other positive effects that outweighs other negative effects, etc. I think this is the you-do-you area, where you just need to find out what works and what doesn't. Overloading yourself with sensory stimuli, like gaming, often have the same effect as taking medication.
I would try to get treatment for bipolar disorder, it's a very manageable disorder. The medication is really good and has few side effects. At least compared to what you're used to in this field. Identifying bad patterns can be so helpful, and some of them aren't that obvious. The effects can lag behind for many days.
That matches my experience. I've not been diagnosed with anything (I'm way too working-class for that), but the worst times of my life were due to this self-reinforcing loop of doom.
The worst part is that the first instinct is to address the procrastination, assuming that "doing" will reduce the causes of anxiety and the latter will just disappear by itself. That's not the case, or at least it wasn't for me - I had to take anxiety under control first.
I am addicted to:
- YouTube
- Gaming
Worse, I have quite a runway due to low living expenses.
I came with a new idea today, I hope it helps anyone else.
I need to get good at generating my own feelings. This is why I play games and watch videos. I do it to feel something.
In order to do that I need to stay as close as to the activity itself while doing it myself.
I came up with the following replacement rules:
TouTube —> tell a story to myself. Yesterday I started a story about an alien who is a cat (and I wasn’t thinking about the show Salem even!). This cat/alien has seen humans for 5000 years.
Games —> digital product design. Yesterday I imagined how it is to design a newsletter, in terms of aesthetics and UX.
I hope this idea might help anyone. I sure haven’t read it anywhere.
But replacement addictions work quite well with me (eg coca cola —> green tea).
So the fact that this is a replacement scheme as well does give the idea some promise for me.
The difference between gaming / youtube is that writing is producing. You're creating something. And that triggers different parts of your brain making you feel like you're accomplishing something.
Beware though. Writing short stories can become a procrastination in itself! For instance, instead of doing homework, you write a short story.
Managing yourself is also being aware that your mind works at different speeds. Read up on Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow to get the idea. The big challenge each of us faces is learning to live with yourself and striking the right balance.
I do the same. And it's a real pain, because after playing enough games or reading books everything gets repetitive. I feel sooo bored whenever I play a new game.
That's why I wanted to join OSS project, preferably game. It is fun to create stuff that actually works. Well, maybe modding community is the way.
This is a phrase I hear in American discourse a lot. What does it mean?
Modern lifestyle has stripped many of us of essential, real problems. By far not all, of course, but definitely the generally well-paid IT crowd on HN.
So instead of hustling to survive like a maid in 1929 Berlin (I am watching Babylon Berlin right now) what's left over are luxury problems, especially if you're in the double income no kids crowd. What the Internet calls "first world problems" but even less "important". Just pull yourself together after all, right? (the answer is no, this will of course break you, or anyone, in the long run but that's a huge off the rails discussion).
What side project can I have? How can I fill my day with something useful instead of gaming? There is a profound emptiness for some people. The vast majority of jobs aren't as amazing as you are supposed to pretend in interviews. You stop feeling useful and doubt your place in society. Educated, trained but not applied to something that makes sense.
Do I have to feel guilty about gaming because I am not productive after 6pm or should I invest time to develop myself because HN tells me to? After spending 8 exhausting hours at my job that lines someone else's pockets?
This is where your mental game is played after the "real" problems are not a threat anymore. It's hard for struggling hard working people who bust their asses to pay rent to understand. I know because that's been me. I have seen both sides.
Going to bed anxious because some huge bill just arrived. Now I am going to bed thinking: "what am I even here for?"
And I actually enjoy my job. But in the end I am doing something shallow, something useless. Not advancing humanity or something.
I'm so tired of existing. I don't have a brain that's wired in such a way that I'll ever really create something worthwhile.
I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me.
Why even maintain this existence...?
However, it is near impossible to even muster a desire or motive to stop procrastinating when there seems to be no value in anything I'm doing except distraction from the anguish of dragging myself through Life.
Likely it's a feedback loop, the start of which I am not clear on.
Even if you don't make it to the top of your value pyramid, life should offer you something.
--- original post ---
> I am equally unlikely to ever find a partner who would want children with me.
I've had this issue for 6 years (between 16 to 22). I was heavily involved with the pickup artist community at the time. I wouldn't call myself a pickup artist, since what I do isn't picking up women and it isn't an art. I just used whatever good advice they had lying around and used it. After 6 years, here are the cliff notes (I studied psychology as well, so you can bet this has some science behind it).
- The most important advice: only take advice you understand or are curious about and test whether it works for you. If it doesn't, that's completely fine. Advice in getting relationships does not have a one size fits all solution. Maybe this will be the case in the future, but for now, no one figured it out yet.
- Learn cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). Read David Burns Intimate Connections and Feeling Good.
- Learn Mindfulness Meditation and other forms. Read Search Inside Yourself by Chade Meng-Tan.
- Finding a therapist is always a good idea. They can second those books and they can second CBT.
- Strength + cardiovascular exercise helps (strength for body posture, running for mental sharpness). The best way to get into this IMO is to simply lift a weight a couple of times until your heart starts beating a bit faster. Then when it is beating faster, notice how you're feeling slightly more in ecstacy than before (other than some slight muscle fatigue).
- Fix your fashion. A good fashion doesn't win women over. It is appreciated though. A bad fashion does let them run away. If you don't want them to run away, stay safe, have a good fashion.
- Read up on assorted mating theory and try to find women that are compatible with you personality-wise, and ask yourself where they'd hangout or how you'd recognize them. I was into artsy types, so anyone who looked like an artist, I'd introduce myself to. I have a high openess to experience, artsy people tend to as well. Do a big 5 personality test (no mbti/myer's briggs nonsense).
- Be careful with pickup artist advice. It's toxic and sexist as hell. The sexism is bullshit.
- This stuff is hard work. I have a friend who has slightly better looks than me (I'm not a pretty person, I'm average at best), but he has no initiative. His dates / relationships are far and few in between. I do think he's enjoying life though.
Those are my biggest tips, most are also quite science-backed.
Some personal findings:
- Getting a girlfriend won't fix your life. You need to take care of your own problems. The only thing it does, it enriches your life.
- You need to come from a place where you feel like you don't need a girlfriend, but it would simply be nice or fun or adventurous (or whatever positive emotion you can think about). The best way to do that is to cater to every single need that you have as much as possible without needing someone else to help you with it.
- You need to make your intentions clear as soon as you know them. I sometimes do it when I see a woman. I do steer clear from cliche's. If I think she's hot as hell, I try to mention that in its most eloquent form (e.g. I'd say she has a nice fashion sense, amazing energy and cute -- I would then go into specific detail). This makes things a lot less complicated. Be respectful about it. I always asked for permission to kiss women, verbally. This goes straight against pickup artist literature, but I found that it worked enough of the time and at least I had a good feeling about it to get verbal consent.
- It is a numbers game. You need volume, but if after a 1000 approaches you haven't even felt a real connection and kissed someone, you're doing something wrong and you need a coach. The problem: most coaches suck. The only one that I know is good is called Ratisse (...
When I was a young man, I wanted to change the world.
I found it was difficult to change the world, so I tried to change my nation.
When I found I couldn't change the nation, I began to focus on my town. I couldn't change the town and as an older man, I tried to change my family.
Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world.
(I'm not a fan of marriage, however. It's neither necessary nor advisable.)
I make about 3 times what a regular developer makes in the UK and, when I got this job, I felt like I 'made it'. That was very short-lived, as I succumbed to the meaninglessness you describe. Don't get me wrong, I love not being worried about money as much, but something just doesn't feel right. Like, is this it?
Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably not be advancing humanity in any way, not to mention that even making any revenue from them is relatively far-fetched, despite what IndieHackers might suggest. Therefore, I am stuck between working all day long for the unlikely chance that I might 'get rich' with some startup (and then what?) or slide into the comfort of gaming/hobbies/relaxing. Both have pros and cons, both take something from you, be it stress or time wasting. Life is hard.
Also, Exurb1a has an excellent channel fraught with articulate video's about existentialism.
Then there's this. You're summarizing how much our non-working life has become a zero-sum game:
> Working on side projects feels maybe a bit shallow as well. I will probably not be advancing humanity in any way, not to mention that even making any revenue from them is relatively far-fetched, despite what IndieHackers might suggest. Therefore, I am stuck between working all day long for the unlikely chance that I might 'get rich' with some startup (and then what?) or slide into the comfort of gaming/hobbies/relaxing. Both have pros and cons, both take something from you, be it stress or time wasting. Life is hard.
Here's the hard truth: You have conditioned to feel guilty if you don't spend your time either producing or consuming.
Here are some blatantly false beliefs that tie into this:
Side projects are only successful if the yield either revenue or attain a vague notion of "impact". Satisfaction of whatever pass time you choose is a function of the amount of money you invest in it (buy the latest gear, invest in increasingly expensive experiences). Professional success is working at a FANG company, selling your startup after VC funding, entering the motivational speaker circuit, being a "thought leader",... "work hard, play hard" etc. etc. You have to "optimize" how you spend time in order to "maximize" your output. Which could be anything ranging from running 5 miles, meditation, writing a blog post and catching up on e-mail between waking up at 4am and breakfast, to monitoring your sleep cycles over reducing your meals to protein shakes to "not waste time eating".
You end up losing something along the way: Yourself. The things that define you as a unique human being. Having your own particular needs, desires, dreams, aspirations and wants that nobody else has.
For instance, you start running 5 miles each morning before dawn because "running invigorates you for the day to come." Well, yeah, sure, but are you actually taking this on because the idea truly resonates with you? Clicks with who you are? Or are you just waking up each morning, secretly resenting the entire thing, because some "thought leader" marketed the idea of "running = road to success" in such a way that you honestly started to believing that?
Your time is yours and yours alone. Nobody else is living your life. Sure, nothing of significance happens if you don't put in the time and effort. But that notion doesn't equate that whatever you have to do needs to answer to modern day ideals such as "useful", "successful", "productive", "rich", or whatever. Nope.
If you want to learn a language, play the guitar, write a novel, join a choir, make a stroll through the park each sunday, cook a nice meal, make photographs, sketch a drawing, read a book, play a game, go travel, etc. etc. etc
... then you should do that first and foremost because that's what YOU want to do with YOUR life...
It's awesome that Elon Musk did build up Tesla and SpaceX practically from thin air. Really awesome. And he likely enjoys doing that and he derives enormous purpose and satisfaction from those enterprises. But I am not Elon Musk. And I certainly do not aspire to become like Elon Musk.
Turns out that success and purpose are measures you have to define for yourself first and foremost. They can be literally anything, as long as they resonate with who you are. You don't have to build rockets in order to feel success. Just baking your own bread and sharing that with a friend can bring intense happine...
Just pointing it out how it sounds and why it sounds to me that way (I didn't downvote). At the risk of sounding controversial, that's okay (I like to hunt after big sexist issues and this isn't one of them, e.g. convincing men why to be a feminist and what's in it for them).
But I do really appreciate the insight that the biggest biological difference between men and women (ability to give birth for a relatively short period of time, IMO) does put them in a different existential starting position right from the outset. Because they need to deal with this. I'm 30 now and I'm slowly beginning to be like "oh yea kids, that's a thing." (men have it easy that way, IMO)
One. Men can have kids up to high age, yes, but after 35, quality declines and the probability that their children will have face disorders and disabilities increases.
Two. Having children to leave a happy life isn't an obligation. It's an option. Most parents love their kids to bits, but will also grudgingly admit that the drudgery of parenthood is probably the most grueling thing you can do with life. And let's not discount the fact that it's literally playing lottery: disabled kids happen too, and you have to be willing to accept that. If you don't have kids yet, think very hard about why you would want to become a parent; and please be extremely critical towards your own romantic notions.
(seriously though, thanks :) )
The odds are definitely in your favor compared to mega millions though.
Why can't men? What's stopping you from finding purpose through being a father?
Gender roles are enforced and affirmed if individuals aren't willing to challenge them and push back in the first place.
Another truth of life is this: You can't always have your cake and eat it at the same time. Everyone gets the same 24/7/365. What you choose to do with it is what matters.
If men and women choose to assume traditional gender roles, then that's because individuals aren't challenging their own beliefs. And by behaving in a traditional gender roles, they implicitly perpetuate the notion that men need to spend their lives in the service of their jobs rather then their children. And that the lot of women is the opposite.
Change starts with yourself.
> being dependent on their man for purpose
Which is, really, hugely unhealthy behavior in itself, regardless of gender. (Yes, many men equally end up doing the same thing: sticking it out with a partner they may resent because they believe that living for your partner is the only purpose in life.)
The same is true for the idea that "children give my life purpose". Think about it. What if the sole reason why you exist, is to give your parents purpose? That sounds incredibly deprecating the lives of your parents, and it places a crushing amount pressure on what you decide to do with your life.
> It is truly the burden of man to find purpose.
It's the challenge every living human faces.
Moreover, so many are looking for purpose in the wrong spots: outside of themselves. They derive from external validation. That is, be perceived and told that you are a good employee, a good sportsman, a good husband, a good father, etc. etc. They look for markers such as wealth or fame to get validated in who they are. And they get depressed if they don't get the validation they crave, especially when they put their standards to unattainable high bars.
The real challenge is simply to learn to live with yourself. To be able to spend a day on your own, with your own thoughts, in your own body. To be a kind and loving friend to who you are as a person.
This is something you can only attain through time, practice and self-awareness. Your own mind is literally a house you build for yourself to live in. The ideas and beliefs you absorb are the bricks and mortar of that house.
If you are careless to the building materials, I can telly you that living in your own mind won't be very pleasant. Invariably, there will be times in your life when you will be alone or on your own. Like, when you move out to live alone, or when you divorce, or when you travel alone, or when you are old and alone. If, by then, you aren't able to live with your own thoughts and feelings, well, life will be a struggle.
There are a lot of problems in our society with being a step-father, and though I'll say I did a great job, I rarely hear from said kids. That's life, but what I did is "in the bank" in my way of thinking, and it's perhaps my proudest accomplishment.
For philosophical reasons, I don't think most (if any) people should have kids. But once they're here, they're as worthy a cause as anything else I know of.
(Unfortunately, too old to do it again, and meaning has become a struggle again.)
I am familiar with him and fond of his videos, generally speaking. How much of his 'teachings' I can apply is a separate matter.
> Here's the hard truth: You have conditioned to feel guilty if you don't spend your time either producing or consuming.
True. Despite not being a huge fan of consumerism, I am convinced it is shaping my decisions one way or another. Since our whole system is built around this, there's no telling where the need ends and the mindless shopping begins. For example, if I get a tear in my favorite T-shirt, I'd probably buy a new one, while my grandmother would have tried to repair it.
What is definitely true is that I have conditioned myself to produce. Part of it might be simply societal pressure, part of it might be my personal ambition to 'be someone', but I think a lot of it is the realization that all the dreams I had as a child are slowly becoming crushed by the realities of adulthood, my limited energy, my limited brain. Because of all this, I realize that my existence is not special in any way. I am just some other soul lost in the crowd, not glowing in any way. Some day I will die and the world will not have been better or worse because of it.
Funny you bring up Elon. For all the criticism he is getting lately, I can't help but think of him as the person I want to be. This guy dares to not only think about a future with space exploration and hyperloops in it, but also does something about it. Say what you will, but there are not many people on the same level of audaciousness as him. With that said, I will never even be close to what Elon is and accepting this is hard.
The more I read and learn, the more disappointed I am with the world. I feel like apart from maybe 2-3% of the population, the rest is strictly concerned with how they can impress their friends at an upcoming party, sports, how good or bad the new Avenger movie is, how to remodel their kitchen and so on. The whole world is driven almost entirely by advertising, PR, marketing, influencers. It's driving me mad at times, thinking about how little true achievements are celebrated. Just a random one - China just released some pictures from the moon and seeing them gave me chills. I believe few people would care at all about this.
And I just don't know if this is the way things eventually end up or if the world could have been vastly different with just a few different twists of the historical timeline.
The notion that "humans are special" and "individuals are special" is exactly part of the problem. We are conditioned to believe that we are special, the carrot being that consumerism/producerism makes us "special", whereas "not being special" is perceived as "something very bad".
Why exactly is that?
Thing is, the existential angst you feel is exactly the stuff that has sparked the Great Age of Philosophy starting with Immanuel Kant and David Hume.
Without going into details, try to turn your thinking around on this one. Why would it be bad that your existence isn't "special" as far as the Universe is concerned? I can assure you that none of the famous dead are laying awake, fretting over whether or not their lives have mattered in the course of History, for instance.
Some people even go so far as to deconstruct their own Self by continuing this line of reasoning. Ego Death is a thing (and it doesn't necessarily involve the usage of LSD).
Turn to yourself instead and construct meaning for yourself. If you want to feel purpose, special and a sense of self, the best thing you can do is validate your own Self. Who you are, what you like, what you dream of,... regardless of what society expects from you. It's called "self love".
> I will never even be close to what Elon is and accepting this is hard.
And I can assure that Elon Musk isn't happier or unhappier then you are. You are not Elon and and Elon isn't you.
He has to deal with the crushing pressure of a few companies that are highly demanding. He has to deal with the complexity and the ethics. He has also to deal with the demands of a very large family (I don't know how much his own kids actually see him, for one, or what their relationship is like)
My point is that the image of you have of Elon and walking in his shoes are two very, very, very different things. And the latter might be far more and harder then you are bargaining for.
There's a difference in being inspired by him and applying his level of audaciousness to your daily life in a sensible manner; and trying to emulate him in a way you can't possibly hope to attain. Guess what will yield the best chance for happiness and purpose?
> I believe few people would care at all about this.
Are you sure? As that your (irrational) beliefs talking, or have you actually done a survey across a representative sample of humans, excluding your own biases, in order to determine this?
I have travelled across the globe a few times now, and having met many, the optimist in me tends to believe that most people do care if you talk with them in earnest. It's just not the image we tend to see as powerful people have invested in a system that games our biases, fears and desires again and again.
Thanks, I needed to read this.
Ironically, one of the few areas I don't have this with is running. For one of the unique things that defines me is a talent for it and I run whenever I'm alone and traveling on foot since I'm an impatient fellow.
The sort of emotions and problems being felt at the higher levels of the hierachy are just as important to the psyche as the emotions and problems being felt at the lower levels of the hierachy.
Even if it is "first world problems", not being fulfilled in the right way can be very distressing.
I'm also videogame addict.
I've found that listening to game music/soundtracks (mostly instrumental) while programming really helps me achieve the similar feelings and even motivates me to get stuff done.
I do listen a lot to music from games, movies and series for that emotional boost, but it always has to be something I've already played/watched and engaged with emotionally in the past. The music doesn't generate new emotions in me, it pulls on the past experiences. Listening to arbitrary soundtracks wouldn't work on me.
Sometimes I do get the emotional boost from music I've never heard before, but most of the times it is from games I played a long time ago.
I'm guessing that music plays a large role in the emotions passed when playing games or watching movies.
Quite ethereal, and though I've never seen the movie, I love the soundtrack.
My favorites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiLCHmyAgEU -- this dnb year mix is a bit too explosive but a lot of my favorite tracks are in there.
Chillstep, no good mixes but I've got some tracks I really like to get you started (if you're into this sort of thing).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Hy0G0R3AQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKKERJpFuvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWeL8bHij08 -- he's a professional violinist and chillstep producer (aka the violin is real)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCXuOvvWLQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcsgA7Laxfg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_jcLeUsBa4
What I found helpful was to dig deeper into why I enjoyed playing the genres of games that I do.
My favourites are MOBA/ARPG/MMORPG and there was quite some overlap in what I was enjoying.
Stuff like:
Now I'm trying to organise my programming activities to give me the same sort of satisfaction: It's been working well for me.What if you'd create like a software "game". Aka, a data structure and algorithm Hacker Rank thingy and then pair up with one other person over voice chat to solve the problem.
I like how you're gamifying coding by putting it in the context of what motivates you about games in the first place.
I'll look up some JS communities.
I am also trying to find the same feelings while working, but getting the same rewards takes a lot more time than while gaming. Also, it's a lot easier to feel that you are bad at it or that you are not learning as much, or that maybe you are working on the wrong thing when programming than when gaming.
Also, I am really missing a real-life leaderboard. I am pretty competitive and seeing others that are way better than me motivates myself to work hard in order to get to their level. I am always looking for success stories and seeing actual numbers from great projects. I found that IndieHackers is a good place to find motivation from others' work.
Worry not!
Run to the highest hill in the vicinity
And call his name out loud...
into the ether of infinity
ONEFUNCMAN!!!
Whatever func you're in or need. He'll save you.
He always does. He's the best, for he is one func man.
Edit: Yuck, that sounds worse when I read it back. I do volunteer and donate to charity as well. I'm not completely selfish.
If you feel fulfilled, then no, maybe not. Many of us are, however, speaking from the perspective that we do feel it needs to be better because we feel empty and unfulfilled.
I'm still addicted to youtube tho. Haven't really solved that part yet.
A noble approach, but not true: (native Linux) Steam works great -- I've run it on Fedora and Linux Mint -- and plenty of games run flawlessly via WINE or Proton. Brand-spankin-new AAA games sometimes have problems, but the vast majority of gaming works well.
For example, my latest addiction is Rimworld, which runs natively on Linux via the native Linux Steam client.
I always thought this was the agreed upon perspective. I actually had never heard that some people explained it as a time management problem.
The way I see it, these statistical correlations give you clues about where to start looking for mechanisms of causation, but as long as there is no causal mechanism, there's just nothing there. -- It's like a detective forming a theory of a crime so they know where to start looking for evidence. But the evidence is what a court is going to need to convict someone.
If you look purely at correlations, I bet that almost any psychological condition correlates with almost any other, to the extent that they are all caused by an unobserved outside factor. Let's call that factor "having a shitty life". A shitty life probably involves having a boring job, which makes you more likely to procrastinate. But a shitty life will also make it more likely that you'd be an alcoholic, drug-addict, suffer from depression and/or anxiety, etc etc
There are many techniques, but I'd recommend looking at the bio-emotive framework to start.
Instead of trying to force yourself to do the thing, refuse to do anything else. Instead of replacing activity with another, just sit still either eyes closed or looking at a wall or desk (not a screen or anything entertaining). Only replacement activity should be no activity, pure boredom. Don't judge yourself and don't feel quilt. If you are stubborn with this, you may notice that you start doing the thing as an impulse without seeing the decision to act coming. Somehow the motivation is there but your constant emotional monitoring is blocking it.
If you start to procrastinate with the procrastination avoidance, all hope is lost.
And I have been on the "overwork" part of the spectrum where I'm all about working until burnout.
It's about emotions, yes. But that's not very specific. This is one of those subjects where 10 different people could give 10 different explanations and nobody would be wrong. It's a rat's nest of issues. A bunch of threads tightly wound to create a mess of a problem.
Fixing a procrastination problem probably takes more of a gut feel than an attempt to understand it.
I don't know what causes it, but most of the time what fixes it is focus.
Why do students cram? Because time constraints strip away the BS and they're only left with figuring out a strategy for studying.
What are my best strategies to stop procrastinating? I'm out of money. Time is running out. I have a gun to my head.
Getting things done is sometimes like trying to reach through a heavy fog to snatch a pin head size blinking orb of light. The moving swirling fog distracts and makes you lose site of the blinking thing you're trying to keep in sight.
What you have to do is mentally banish the fog and go straight for that blinking thing and grab it.
Another issue for me is a failure to commit. The more I think about all the stuff I want to do, the less I'm willing to put the effort into doing one thing. Possibilities are more interesting than reality. Even as reality kills off possibilities, I can always spin up more. Reading HN is like a staging zone where I'm not having to commit to anything. I'm not getting anything done, but at least I'm still keeping all the possibilities in play. It's like a dude who likes to play the field rather than settle down and get married. ;)
As I mentioned above, certain realities I can't ignore. Paying bills is a major one.
The article mentions mindfulness and I think it can replace the gut feel as a way to understand the root cause of procrastination. One can literally observe what is happening in your mind and body and what is happening around you before, during and after procrastination events and work from there to address anything you want to change. Learning about and practicing self-compassion [1] should, IMHO, help deal with it as well.
1: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b357/87b9b21486d00458e85f8b...
Same here.
I have the feeling the trick is to get guidance but not too much.
I have many "startup ideas" but I never execute them.
I hate it if I get a manager above me that makes too much decisions for me.
But working with some nice people who let me do my job without imposing some working hours, tech stack or whatever on me and only give me some interesting problems to work on and I stop procrastinating.
Well put. I suffer from that as well. Setting aside the maddening aspects of that, it does have a bright side:
If you spend years weaving together complimentary possibilities, and the rate at which you spin them up is greater than the rate at which they die—you can come up with some really interesting composite ideas that over time will seem more compelling to execute.
Haiku time.
"Procrastinate by
Reading articles about
Procrastination"
I've watched a ton of videos on procrastination, and read a lot about it, and this video is head and shoulders above everything else. Highly recommended.
He also has the iProcrastinate Podcast[2], which also has some useful and interesting episodes.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhFQA998WiA
[2] - http://iprocrastinate.libsyn.com/
WaitButWhy blog gave me an amazing insight into why do we procrastinate in the most simplest form. I've felt like, I was literally reading about me
What actually helped me was framing the issue in a somewhat buddhist manner. I purchased his Panic Monster and the Monkey, sat them on my desk, and tried to look at them (and thus at my procrastination) with kindness and acceptance.
FWIW, my procrastination hasn't gone away (here I am, on HN); but it shrunk, and it stopped being such a big problem for me.
So even though I've overcome it myself, I have no idea what advice to give to someone who's struggling with procrastination.
I think about procrastination as part a larger discipline problem. Other parts of the same problem are people's lack of willingness to exercise and eat properly. When framed in a larger sense, I do think it is a big ailment in todays society.
Of course I can’t spend it watching cat videos, but reading reddit or HN is very possible (or basically anything that looks workish).
Solving difficult problems is a main part of my job. I love a challenge and get totally absorbed by a good problem. I read everything I find about the topic, I try different solutions, I think about it the whole time. But once I have figured out a solution and I have to do all the tedious work that comes after, I lose interest and start doing other things.
Programming is an interesting example. I get to work when I have to think how to refactor everything in a nice way, for example, but once I find the right design and I see it works, changing everything becomes a mechanical task, and I tend to postpone that tedious work to try to solve some weird problem I found by chance in some irc channel or stackexchange.
I think that this diversity is great. We should work together!
1.
Procrastination is related to fear, and the fight, flight & freeze responses for work. Procrastination = flight. Pulling an all-nighter = fight (gets things done, but at a health cost). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlObsAeFNVk
2.
For people with ADHD (e.g. myself) there are two times: NOW and NOT NOW. That way, it is hard to do any activity, unless is urgent (e.g. deadline). Anything for "some time" (or "tomorrow") is going to stay that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLkOZhROvA4
...
Also, I recommend "Driven to Distraction: Recognizing and Coping with Attention Deficit Disorder" by Edward Hallowell and John Ratey. I discovered this book thanks to HN and a post about dyslexia. The book shows quite a few stories of adults with AD(H)D and how do they cope with work and relationships. The stories are diverse (it is certainly not all ill-behaved boys), and give a point of reference.
I wished I had known that book before. I got diagnosed only the last year, being 33 years old. Before turning 30 I hadn't suspected having ADHD, as I had quite a few misconceptions both about the condition, and what is "typical" in humans.
...
And from recent things: this recent HN is invaluable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22105229
> When you tell yourself "just one more game" or "just one more post", or "just one more video" and end up doing 3-5 hours more, do that with your other tasks too! "just one line of code", "just one tutorial", "just one rep", "just one line of reading/writing".
And from a linked Reddit post:
"Eat the frog first doesn't work for many of the groups who struggle with procrastination. My ADHD group often gets newcomers who say they've tried everything. There must be something terribly wrong with them because trying to eat the frog first makes things worse for them.
In fact, trying to eat the frog first makes it worse for most people with ADHD. We do better with small things, and even better with a small, well-chosen fun thing before the important thing. It builds dopamine and success and reduces anxiety. Also, sometimes we need to de-stress. Yes, I let my kids play video games after school. They relaxed until after supper. They knew that if they didn't get their work done before class started, and were cranky from lack of sleep, we'd have to change the rules."
Rationally I know what is time (heck, I did my PhD in physics, so I have an edge here). When it comes to actions... I often zone out, daydream, get distracted by a random post, get too focused so I spend well more time than I realize on something I didn't plan to do, etc.
Once I realized this NOW vs NOT NOW, I set some triggers to make a project "NOW".
Of course, one natural trigger is "the final deadline is tomorrow", but it gets risky and unhealthy.
Other is (I am a freelancer, so there is no natural "we are in the office"):
- setting coworking sessions (then during a meeting there is NOW for the project)
- setting regular meetings (to create a lot of smaller deadlines)
- I try to respond to emails only twice a day, in blocks (so a short question won't turn into NOW against my wished)
- I essentially dropped the hope of doing things well in advance... and it was good. For example, when I give a talk, I book time the same day to prepare it. And it works. The other alternative is to agonize over a week, and they still (in a self-hating mood) prepare things the last minute, but without booking enough time or energy.
Still learning that, so I am very open for pointers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tpB-B8BXk0
Plus, she speaks rapidly, and it is a plus (I don't need to do my usual thing of listening at 1.5x so I don't get bored).
I guess only vaguely related, because it's nothing like actual fight/flight/freeze where your sympathetic nervous system kicks into high gear.
However, stress (yes, including work stress) kicks your sympathetic nervous system into high gear, as you put it. (With all other effects, from hormone levels to heart rate.)
Sure, effects of short-term and long-term stress may be different, but the statement "because it's nothing like actual" is far from obvious.