HN Explorer

Should Be: Detroit - Silicon City

9 points by madd_o ↗ HN
I'v had this thought in the back of my mind for a good year now, and wanted to share it with the HN lot.

Times are tough, jobs are sparse, Detroit has been destroyed by the withdrawal of the auto industry.

It seems like the perfect time for the geeks to swoop in, set up projects/teams, buy cheap houses and re(t|m)ake the city.

It's nothing simple or easy, but I can't help but see a potential Silicon City or Startup City.

Any thoughts?

21 comments

[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 61.5 ms ] thread
SamReidHughes
Generally speaking, programmers aren't poor. They can afford to live in more expensive places with little snow, less crime, more interesting companies, and VC's.
madd_o
I agree that programmers have been relatively economically protected. There's still wisdom saving money.

Perhaps the crime factor makes Detroit a tough sell (or the snow for some).

There must be another city in the throes of economic upheaval to choose.

My thoughts are that affordable housing + a few brave companies will bring other companies, talent and VC's.

olsonea
Snow is a personal preference. Boston and Detroit are comparable in terms of snowfall, the difference being there are umpteen ski resorts within a three hour drive of Boston.

I like the OP's Utopian vision for resurrecting Detroit, I had a similar idea related to other manufacturing ventures. The infrastructure should mostly still be in tact. The only thing that is missing is the industry. The perfect fit to me is the green energy industry (solar, wind manufacturing). It's the perfect opportunity to get Detroit back on it's feet, and reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Throw in a tax break that both sides of the isle can live with, and there would be virtually no opposition.

SamReidHughes
Other than the fact that if nobody lives in Detroit and nobody wants to live in Detroit, the last place we should want industry is Detroit. What makes sense is for industry to be built where people want to live. That apparently means not Michigan, and generally, not in the north. (Migration in the U.S. goes generally from the north to the south.)

Claims about the infrastructure are unconvincing. If the infrastructure is sufficiently intact and if that's an actual plus so that it's worth starting a business there, then businesses would be started there. Or is the market being inefficient, and you with your oh-so-wise opinion of how things should be know better than the people who would stand to make money off of being right about your suppositions?

Here's a better idea: Let's help Cambodia get back on its feet by subsidizing its industry, they would benefit more per dollar than people living in Michigan.

yummyfajitas
Detroit is a kleptocracy. The UAW will come in and demand you overpay your workers and (probably more importantly) impose work rules that prevent you from becoming more efficient. The city will tax you to death, since you will be the only source of revenue within the city limits.

Toyota had very good reasons for building their Prius factory in Mississippi rather than Detroit. It's a low tax, right to work state, with no historical tendency toward killing the golden goose.

Detroit is dead, and it's the fault of the people who live there. The only way to save Detroit is to fix the people. Good luck with that.

_delirium
High taxes, strong unions, etc. apply to places like Massachusetts and California as well, and they don't seem to have the same kind of troubles Detroit has.

I'd chalk most of Detroit's problems up to the post-industrial malaise that affected Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, Gary, etc. as well, i.e. cities built around industrial-age factory sectors that turned out to have their eggs in the wrong baskets for the 21st century. Factory towns in right-to-work states didn't generally weather the transition any better-- South Carolina is littered with ghost towns that were formerly supported by the textile mills, and the state's economy never really recovered from their departure (it's now the country's fourth-poorest state, worse off than Michigan).

noonespecial
Detroit: High crime, cold weather, ridiculous tax structure inside city limits, no outdoor activities... just pick some podunk town in Texas, you'll be better off all around.
madd_o
Great - where else?

If we're going to pick our ideal city, what should it be? Maybe podunk Texas isn't going to have the best internet service. Who does, within the list of economically thirsty locations?

That's the underlying question: What city has cheap housing, good infrastructure and is friendly to tech startups?

zephjc
Cheap housing. Good infrastructure. Friendly to tech startups.

Pick any two.

madd_o
Why? I mean it without sarcasm, why do you suggest that the three are not possible?
keiferski
Pittsburgh is pretty much all of those. Insanely cheap housing (I pay $400 for a 2br - with no roommate, just me.) Access to the best young talent around (Pitt, Carnegie Mellon, + numerous other schools). Relatively low crime rate, and it's named the best city to live in fairly often.

The only downside is the weather, which isn't that bad in the winter -- certainly much better than Detroit or Boston.

madd_o
Interesting. I wonder if the tech grads would be willing to stick around if a start up culture took root.
balanon
It's tough for Detroit to shake the negative press about it. I think there is a lot of potential. There's a re-gentrification happening and there's a growing population of artists, musicians, and tech growing in the middle of the city. It's certainly not big enough to garner any attention but it will.

I think it's easy for people to poo poo on Detroit. Detroit needed to burn so something better could rise from the ashes. Change always happens when things hit its lowest point.

madd_o
I'd read about the influx of artists and musicians, but didn't have a link ref to it, so I didn't bring it up. I'm not dead-set on Detroit, but it seemed a good match, the artsy and the geeky crowd. There is a big jumbled mix of modern hip culture which lends itself to new web style and start-up culture...

Thanks for the counterpoint.

Headfirst
There are projects like this in Detroit already. I see everyone in this thread passing around old, tired images of a past Detroit. It hasn't been like that for awhile.

I started my business in Detroit and there is no other place I would choose if I did it all over again.

Stop passing old stereotypes about Detroit around and come see the city for yourself.

madd_o
What's your business focus?
dookiet
Snow is an idiotic argument. In fact if you like winter sports Michigan has an advantage in more consistant snowfall due to the proximity of the great lake (a huge benefit itself). Better to live in a place prepared to deal with snow then set up shop in the south and have you business and community shut down and clear out like a post apocalyptic city.
NY_USA_Hacker
The labor unions will kill any such effort. The whole state of Michigan is just in LOVE with the labor union efforts that killed Detroit. Until Michigan gives up on labor unions, f'get about it.
LoveMich
VERY reasonably priced housing. Extremely supportive people who will help entrepreneurs in an instant. Lots more to do than the media would like to share. Fabulous live music venues. Great museums. A gazillion terrific restaurants. Four distinct seasons. A quick drive to Northern Michigan will give you views of some of the most beautiful lakes in the world. I'd never move away from here.
madd_o
> Extremely supportive people who will help entrepreneurs in an instant.

Can you elaborate on this?

pitdesi
I like the idea and have love for Detroit (I went to grad school at U of M) but there are a number of things that make this really hard, including terrible government, deep seeded racism, cold weather, etc. Also - this story is crazy. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11002/1114667-109.stm And it's not like those auto workers can be employed by your startup.

That being said, there are a lot of smart people in the midwest, and given the challenge of finding talent in the valley, there should be more startups in the midwest. Chicago and Pittsburgh seem to be getting there but you don't hear much from other places... Any place with good universities will have some startups, but Detroit hasn't gotten much out of U of M