Viruses seem to start and spread faster using the complex infrastructure.
This is yet another reason to prefer independent cars to herd-like public transport.
I had to laugh at this comment, since it’s quite true.
So would you prefer to spend a week driving from Los Angeles to New York, instead of spending 5 hours flying, in a herd-like tin can, crammed full of people, and re-breathing the same recycled air?
Planes don’t recycle air that much. While there is some recirculation, outside is constantly pumped in (either bleed air from the engines, or from electric compressors on the 787) and there’s a valve that lets air out at the correct rate to maintain the desired cabin pressure.
I can’t remember the exact timing, but think I recall it being something like every 10 minutes or so that all the cabin air is replaced.
Here on HN there's a regular argument for trains as an alternative to cars. Seeing how I end up using the train once in a while, I'm always bothered by the lack of cleanliness of public trains and how people come and go, touch things, leave crumbs, etc., and then I have to sit and touch those very places. Planes vs cars is not really a debate, as certainly for many destinations cars don't make sense.
Has it occurred to you that in a free market economy these beds may already have been built? Are you impressed by reports of patients showing concerning symptoms being turned away from government-run hospitals?
There's really just one lesson and that is anything built by a government is on average inferior to the same thing built by private sector.
Maybe the China government is less wasteful than the US government. The solution to optimizing the both is to privatize everything. Why should one be impressed by a less bad choice?
The free market would never build this without the government paying, because most patients can't exactly afford to pay for their share of the construction costs. For-profit hospitals are incentivized to turn away patients showing concerning symptoms to prevent them from infecting their paying customers.
There are many lessons that can be drawn from this, but "privatize everything" is not one of them.
This is exactly the opposite of complex infrastructure. They're reducing a hospital down to the essentials: beds under a roof. If it weren't winter, they could've gotten away with just using tents, too.
Yes, this isn't necessarily what we'd call a 'hospital', nevertheless it happens very quickly. My country would struggle to erect a paper bag on a patch of dirt in 6 months.
There are additional examples of China's construction prowess that perhaps better represent the point I was making.
I always found the video of them constructing a 30 story hotel in just 15 days to be quite fascinating. [1]
The modules were assembled off-site, and delivered in sequence, for final assembly onsite.
But I haven’t heard of any further news from the company (BSB I think), for a few years, that I assume the government must’ve shut down their business model. Perhaps for poor quality, or for design defects. But the construction technique is probably worthy of further study and refinement.
I would swap that wording, the modules where constructed offsite and assembled in 15 days on a pre built foundation. But it’s unclear when construction began and the video hit 360 hours before it finished, making this even less interesting.
Also, by comparison the 102 story Empire State Building took 410 days to construct in the 1930’s including the foundation. So under the most generous assumptions it’s about 8x as fast.
Keep in mind that this period is also Chinese New Year in China, and workers are mostly expecting time off (sometimes, their only time off of the year)
This is in Wuhan. The city is locked down...they aren't going anywhere. Might as well make some money. By law anyone who works during holidays get paid 3x their wages for overtime.
> Setting aside quality assurance and risk assessment/mitigation, I'm seriously impressed with the speed in which they construct complex infrastructure.
Not only infrastructure, it's just everything here glides like on butter in comparison to my experience in Canada and US, both in public and private spheres.
My experience making business in Canada: drag and head current in everything. That's a part of the culture: to complicate things, add friction, and "we don't know how it will go, so we wouldn't do anything" attitude
In the West, people feel to have something almost bordering on subconscious compulsion to impede things, and add friction to anything around.
From one side, your people have a burning desire to show concern, and involve themselves into everything, and on another, they have no real intention to do a thing beyond that.
> The are some good reasons we don't quite go at this pace, but there are lots of good lessons about expediency to be gleaned as well.
The biggest impediment you have in the West is the MBA culture everywhere. Everybody tries to speak like a banker or lawyer, and even think of that as something good!
How many fund managers do you need to define a strategy how to write a hello world app? You know the answer already, but these people will simply not take no as an answer, and will not let things go until they get it.
Could the delay, in part, be there are more checks and balances that are thoroughly checked? Likewise the populations and level of development are at very different levels not only with population size to compare but also with the amount of workers in different positions there will be in China compared to in the US and Canada for development related work.
I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example.
Just want to add something to that 68% number: quite a few people get more schooling after trade school, there is something like "master of trade" or others go to university.
>I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example.
That's because in countries like Germany or Denmark there's a shortage of skilled certified doers like plumbers and electricians so they're paid handsomely and since devs aren't paid as handsomely there as in SV, some prefer to go into trade as it can be more lucrative than tech in those markets.
There is a widespread tendency to do things quickly in China and it's not (only) because of absence of checks and balances.
Compared to the UK you notice that when you go to the bank: Clerks work fast, the supermarket: Cashier will scan items faster than you can put them into your bags, local MacDonald's: Your food is ready fast.
It works the other way round: Chinese who visit the UK often comment that everything is slower.
It's in part because you have way more people so the competition is higher. You're get your job but you have to be extremely efficient, as efficient as humanly possible, or you're going to be replaced - and if not by a person, eventually by automation.
I've been to China once, traveling from HK with to a massive highly dense multi-floor shopping mall, and then went to a 20+ story hotel fully converted into a massive massage/spa. For two people: 45 minute foot massage coming with some fruit and a drink, followed by an hour long full body massage, including tip, cost $36 CAD. Both environments were really incredible to experience, very opposite to how spacious our malls our, and how factory line feeling the massage hotel was in comparison. I'm still undecided which model is better - obviously though if both models are viable in an ecosystem then unless there are controls in place for quality and space requirements, then the lower price will win out competitive price wise, and cause strain on the other model's viability.
> It's in part because you have way more people so the competition is higher.
I think the "huge population" aspect is overdone when discussing China.
If I apply for a job at my local supermarket, the competition I face has little to do with the fact that the UK's population is 65 million vs 1.4 billion in China.
Is the competition in the US 5x fiercer than in the UK because the population is 5x higher? No because there are also more jobs and the number of people within 'reach' of a given job is likely about the same irrespective of the country's total population.
You make a good point, but literally every fast food place near me has a 'Help Wanted' advertisement posted these days. I have the sense that they take anyone they can get, whereas in an industrializing society, the competition for those types of jobs (for recent agrarian -> city immigrants) would be pretty fierce.
Unemployment rate might be a better metric, but 'employment rate at food employee level or higher' would be the best I guess.
They are using pre-fab (not sure if this article mentioned that). Makes things so much easier where buildings can be built in factories with similar standards. Lots of new builds nowadays have so many little issues due to bad quality control.
Even with prefab components this is an amazing achievement. I suspect that here in Germany we would still be waiting for the hospital to treat the Marburg virus patients to be completed.
This kind of thing is basically impossible in the West now.
There would be one rabbit family on the site, which would trigger endless environmental protest and lawsuits to protect their right of living there and against disruptions of their habitat.
States and the federal government have emergency powers for crises. This is how e.g. FEMA is able to rapidly erect shelters in disaster areas without needing to care about zoning rules.
The author added a few misc. info but the article is more of a report on a report...many of the sentences were like
"Building machinery, including 35 diggers and 10 bulldozers, arrived at the site on Thursday night, with the aim to get the new facility ready by Monday, the paper added."
“The construction of this project is to solve the shortage of existing medical resources,” the report said.
“It created a miracle in the history of medical science,” the paper added.
>Can you imagine something like this happening in America?
A new, dangerous respiratory virus mutating in the overcrowded and unhygienic environment of a poorly-managed city market, and then spreading almost unchecked for six weeks, amidst continual denials of its serious nature?
No, instead we just have periodic resurgence of diseases that have been cured for decades, like measles, that kill hundreds of children and vulnerable adults because a significant portion of our population doesn't "believe" in modern science and a significant portion of our government isn't willing to make them do otherwise.
But no, we don't have dirty food markets, so we have that going for us.
These diseases typically manifest in areas with high populations of religious fanatics. Many of the cases that I have heard of originate in the boroughs NYC. Sounds strange that a large population of religious fanatics would reside in NYC but they are there.
That is false. The rates of vaccine refusal for secular Jews is the same as the general public.
The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
"However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%, six percentage points higher than the statewide average among private schools. In contrast, six other New York counties have a vaccination rate below 50%."
And just to be clear, these are Orthodox K-12 schools we are talking about.
> The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
Where in the world are you getting such utter crap data from?
There were some schools at 77%, but that was not vaccine refusal, that was just kids who hadn't made time to go to the Dr., when prompted virtually all of them vaccinated. And that's from the CDC itself.
>The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018.
It is no where near the same. 60% according to this article which was the top post in DDG search. Compared to 92.5% to general population. Stop spreading lies.
>In upstate New York, the outbreak has spread through insular communities in Rockland and Orange counties, where vaccination rates in some schools and day care centers is at 60%, according to New York state health commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker. The state’s overall vaccination rate is 92.5%, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
"However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%"
To get 60% in a couple schools the rates at the rest of the schools must be pretty near 100%.
The US had ~1,300 cases in 2019 and successfully put down the small outbreak. By September the cases were down to six that month and they stayed down. It was the worst outbreak in decades.
The EU had as many cases in 2019 - 13,500 - as the US did in the prior 20 years combined. That's ten times the figure the US had in 2019. In 2017 + 2018 Europe broadly had around 110,000 cases.
I think the US is very obviously doing excellent regarding measles.
No probably not... crammed homeless in city parks giving each other Hep, city streets disinfected from feces, leprosy being endemic in parts of the homeless population. People unable to afford life-saving medication or unable to take time off work due to lack of medical leave, choosing to carry their viruses to work. People also never eat Armadillo meet and come down with the plague. Large parts of the population distrusting science and government and rejecting vital vaccination to keep diseases from spreading.
Such things would never happen in any kind of first world country. let's focus on exotic animal markets in China to make us all feel superior
While the plight of the homeless in the U.S. is great discussion fodder, I don't see what relevance it has to meat market hygiene in China, or the state's role in publishing accurate public health information.
You're right, they couldn't, because the US has much stricter safety regulations to prevent stuff like this from happening.
Unlike China, the West tries to learn from its mistakes. It's why we have so much bureaucracy. The cost of red tape seems excessive until shit like this happens in the places that don't have red tape.
Wow. Really. Only we are able to learn from mistakes and we have so much bureaucracy.
We do so much learning, its Yuuge I tell you. No other country learns so great. And our bureaucracy, everyone is jealous of it, it is so highly, so much red tape. Nobody has that much red tape.
In fairness, just about everybody could emote “In $country it will take $year to build a hospital. Grumble grumble.”
What you should be asking yourself is how prepared is $country for an outbreak of a virulent pathogen? And; given its preparedness (1) how quickly could an area be cordoned off and quarantined, (2) how quickly could a makeshift medical structure to house an appreciable number of patients be slung together?
People's rights are not what's stopping BER from being finished. People's rights aren't what set the Elbphilharmonie so far behind schedule and over budget.
My wife ( mainland Chinese ) said the hospital in Chongqing told here there were 24 confirmed cases there. She’s sick now and possibly has the Wuhan virus ( though her chest scans are clear ).
Unfortunately the doctors are overworked right now due to the holidays and she can’t see anyone for the next couple days. Hopefully she doesn’t have the virus, but she’s taking precautions.
I think the virus is spreading more than the news is letting on.
it's also less deadly than the attention it gets, so while there are for sure much more infected than the confirmed cases the mortality rate is also pretty low affecting only old people and people with weak immunity, so no point to panic about it
I was born and raised in Wuhan. My father and a few friends are still in Wuhan, one of the friend is a nurse. Here's what they told me:
* The hospitals in Wuhan are at absolute maximum capacity. they are lumping any fever cases (e.g. flu) patients with potential coronavirus patients in the same room.
* People with mild symptoms are sent home due to capacity, they are instructed to be quarantined at home unless symptoms get worse
* Despite reports, surgical masks are completely sold out in China, my dad is asking me to send him 3M (the brand) masks from abroad.
* Even hospitals are low on surgical masks for staff. Each nurse is given one or two masks per day, but per regulation, they needed to replace the mask every 3 hours.
* A wider scale locked down went in to effect in Wuhan this morning, forbidding anybody from entering or leaving on any roads, rail, water or flight.
* Domestic news are filled with non-sense, top 3 news today are praising Xi's CNY speech, which has exactly zero word mentioning the pandemic or Wuhan.
[Edit] One more thing,
* This coronavirus is potentially deadlier than SARS. Most of the 25 deaths are from the original 47 cases that was reported a few weeks ago.
Yes, scalpers swoop them up in all online stores. They are even sold out on Amazon US, Canada, UK and DE. I was told only the ones with a N95 rating can be effective against this virus.
Apparently (or so I was told) that the masks with ventilation holes are not nearly as effective. Hence my original link is one without a breathable hole. If you check Amazon again, all the hole-less N95 masks are all sold out.
Your original link does say “in stock” at least for me. “Usually ships within 4 to 5 days”, but this isn’t a Prime/FBA product so it’s not clear if that’s just business as usual.
Edit: What the hell with downvotes on a stated fact?
Interesting. I am not seeing any availability here in Sweden. Perhaps all the international shipping options are gone. Since I am not in the US, I'd have to order it to ship directly to China.
> I was told only the ones with a N95 rating can be effective against this virus.
N95 masks need to be fit properly [1], and are very uncomfortable for daily use.
Surgical masks are a good compromise for going out in public, and mostly protect others from the mask-wearer. It's more important to practise good hygiene to avoid infection [2].
> Surgical masks are a good compromise for going out in public, and mostly protect others from the mask-wearer.
Under this model, if everyone panics and wears masks to prevent themselves from getting sick, the spread of the disease will be crippled because everyone's wearing masks and people who are sick can't infect anyone else. It's a great idea.
This isn't really different from the herd immunity model of vaccination, where a lot of individuals getting vaccinated return a huge bonus to society in the form of herd immunity. If herd immunity were the only benefit, would we still want people to get vaccinated? Of course, that's why it's supposed to be mandatory.
Everyone in China who can afford to buy masks has scrambled to buy them. Of course they're sold out. Production is probably ramping up massively, but that's still not enough to satisfy demand right now.
* Domestic news are filled with non-sense, top 3 news today are praising Xi's CNY speech, which has exactly zero word mentioning the pandemic or Wuhan.
I can't put my finger on this where I may have seen this foxy pattern before...
If the area is officially locked down, blocking transport by land, air, & water, how are they planning to deliver the masks?
I assume there are exceptions made for appropriate officials and medical personnel, if adequate quarantine rues are followed, do the group attracting the crowd funding have access to this channel? Or drone based deliver perhaps (assuming they don't break the transport in/out rule despite not being manned so not presenting the same infection spread vector)?
I'd like to know the masks are going to go somewhere useful, rather than being blocked by the rules and distributed around officials instead of to hospital staff & patients and the public, before I donate.
So apparently it's not a full quarantine like everyone suggests, but more of a partial quarantine. My understanding is that deliveries to the local government is not accepted, so they are sending this straight to the hospitals. I also hear the logistics are set up, with more information currently available in the wechat group set up for this.
This is a full quarantine per all media reporting, including Chinese party apparatus. People are allowed in but are not allowed to leave once they are in Wuhan.
this morning's news seems to indicate that the virus entered body via eyes according to expert. wearing mask alone probably won't be enough to prevent infection.
I think the more accurate phrase was that it wasn't human transmissible .. as far as anyone knew / there wasn't evidence to show it was.
I think with any new virus or etc folks focus on what they know at that time ... and effectively waiting for testing / what they observe to enhance their understanding.
coronavirus, where does this stack in the legacy of nasty viruses that come out every few years? I can remember several off hand making the news, maybe I'm lumping some mistakenly. Anyone know a place where a timeline and scale of each pandemic (is that what they're known as?) can be found?
133 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 198 ms ] threadThe are some good reasons we don't quite go at this pace, but there are lots of good lessons about expediency to be gleaned as well.
So would you prefer to spend a week driving from Los Angeles to New York, instead of spending 5 hours flying, in a herd-like tin can, crammed full of people, and re-breathing the same recycled air?
I can’t remember the exact timing, but think I recall it being something like every 10 minutes or so that all the cabin air is replaced.
There's really just one lesson and that is anything built by a government is on average inferior to the same thing built by private sector.
Maybe the China government is less wasteful than the US government. The solution to optimizing the both is to privatize everything. Why should one be impressed by a less bad choice?
There are many lessons that can be drawn from this, but "privatize everything" is not one of them.
...all we see so far is a TON of excavators digging a hole.
There are additional examples of China's construction prowess that perhaps better represent the point I was making.
The modules were assembled off-site, and delivered in sequence, for final assembly onsite.
But I haven’t heard of any further news from the company (BSB I think), for a few years, that I assume the government must’ve shut down their business model. Perhaps for poor quality, or for design defects. But the construction technique is probably worthy of further study and refinement.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg7F7nG0PKw
Also, by comparison the 102 story Empire State Building took 410 days to construct in the 1930’s including the foundation. So under the most generous assumptions it’s about 8x as fast.
Far from it. They were already fleeing before the lockdown.
Not only infrastructure, it's just everything here glides like on butter in comparison to my experience in Canada and US, both in public and private spheres.
My experience making business in Canada: drag and head current in everything. That's a part of the culture: to complicate things, add friction, and "we don't know how it will go, so we wouldn't do anything" attitude
In the West, people feel to have something almost bordering on subconscious compulsion to impede things, and add friction to anything around.
From one side, your people have a burning desire to show concern, and involve themselves into everything, and on another, they have no real intention to do a thing beyond that.
> The are some good reasons we don't quite go at this pace, but there are lots of good lessons about expediency to be gleaned as well.
The biggest impediment you have in the West is the MBA culture everywhere. Everybody tries to speak like a banker or lawyer, and even think of that as something good!
How many fund managers do you need to define a strategy how to write a hello world app? You know the answer already, but these people will simply not take no as an answer, and will not let things go until they get it.
I don't disagree that there's likely an overabundance of thinkers over doers, something like 6-8% of people in the US go into trades school vs. 68% in Germany as an example.
That's because in countries like Germany or Denmark there's a shortage of skilled certified doers like plumbers and electricians so they're paid handsomely and since devs aren't paid as handsomely there as in SV, some prefer to go into trade as it can be more lucrative than tech in those markets.
Compared to the UK you notice that when you go to the bank: Clerks work fast, the supermarket: Cashier will scan items faster than you can put them into your bags, local MacDonald's: Your food is ready fast.
It works the other way round: Chinese who visit the UK often comment that everything is slower.
I've been to China once, traveling from HK with to a massive highly dense multi-floor shopping mall, and then went to a 20+ story hotel fully converted into a massive massage/spa. For two people: 45 minute foot massage coming with some fruit and a drink, followed by an hour long full body massage, including tip, cost $36 CAD. Both environments were really incredible to experience, very opposite to how spacious our malls our, and how factory line feeling the massage hotel was in comparison. I'm still undecided which model is better - obviously though if both models are viable in an ecosystem then unless there are controls in place for quality and space requirements, then the lower price will win out competitive price wise, and cause strain on the other model's viability.
I think the "huge population" aspect is overdone when discussing China.
If I apply for a job at my local supermarket, the competition I face has little to do with the fact that the UK's population is 65 million vs 1.4 billion in China.
Is the competition in the US 5x fiercer than in the UK because the population is 5x higher? No because there are also more jobs and the number of people within 'reach' of a given job is likely about the same irrespective of the country's total population.
Unemployment rate might be a better metric, but 'employment rate at food employee level or higher' would be the best I guess.
Of course things go smoothly if you only adhere to the lowest standards, and 'anything goes' attitude.
https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode...
>from Fefe [0] "[...] it's done by 3rd of feb. I suppose we could do the same in Germany, but it'd be 3rd of feb 2030."
[0] https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=a0d41799
There would be one rabbit family on the site, which would trigger endless environmental protest and lawsuits to protect their right of living there and against disruptions of their habitat.
States and the federal government have emergency powers for crises. This is how e.g. FEMA is able to rapidly erect shelters in disaster areas without needing to care about zoning rules.
"Building machinery, including 35 diggers and 10 bulldozers, arrived at the site on Thursday night, with the aim to get the new facility ready by Monday, the paper added."
“The construction of this project is to solve the shortage of existing medical resources,” the report said.
“It created a miracle in the history of medical science,” the paper added.
A new, dangerous respiratory virus mutating in the overcrowded and unhygienic environment of a poorly-managed city market, and then spreading almost unchecked for six weeks, amidst continual denials of its serious nature?
No, probably not.
But no, we don't have dirty food markets, so we have that going for us.
The most you can say is that Jews have more contact with each other (they have strong community ties) so the virus has a chance to spread.
PS. Good job labeling ordinary people "religious fanatics". You might want to take a deep look inside yourself.
The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
"However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%, six percentage points higher than the statewide average among private schools. In contrast, six other New York counties have a vaccination rate below 50%."
And just to be clear, these are Orthodox K-12 schools we are talking about.
https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/School-Immunization-Survey...
> The rate of vaccine refusal for Orthodox Jews is radically higher than the general public--second only to Jehovah's Witnesses on a proportionate basis.
Where in the world are you getting such utter crap data from?
There were some schools at 77%, but that was not vaccine refusal, that was just kids who hadn't made time to go to the Dr., when prompted virtually all of them vaccinated. And that's from the CDC itself.
https://www.jta.org/2019/06/07/united-states/heres-what-we-k...
The County at issue in that outbreak confirms the low vaccination rates as of 2018 and 2019, when the outbreak actually occurred.
>The U.S. experienced 17 outbreaks in 2018. Three outbreaks in New York State, New York City, and New Jersey, respectively, contributed to most of the cases. Cases in those states occurred primarily among unvaccinated people in Orthodox Jewish communities. These outbreaks were associated with travelers who brought measles back from Israel, where a large outbreak is occurring. Eighty-two people brought measles to the U.S. from other countries in 2018.
>In upstate New York, the outbreak has spread through insular communities in Rockland and Orange counties, where vaccination rates in some schools and day care centers is at 60%, according to New York state health commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker. The state’s overall vaccination rate is 92.5%, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Source: https://forward.com/news/national/417390/measles-is-hitting-...
"However, the New York State Health Department reports the average vaccination rate for measles among the nearly 200 Jewish K-12 schools in Brooklyn — mainly in Borough Park and Williamsburg — is 96%"
To get 60% in a couple schools the rates at the rest of the schools must be pretty near 100%.
And don’t give me the same source you used because no where within the website does it contain the paragraph you highlighted.
Cured? Where?
The US had ~1,300 cases in 2019 and successfully put down the small outbreak. By September the cases were down to six that month and they stayed down. It was the worst outbreak in decades.
The EU had as many cases in 2019 - 13,500 - as the US did in the prior 20 years combined. That's ten times the figure the US had in 2019. In 2017 + 2018 Europe broadly had around 110,000 cases.
I think the US is very obviously doing excellent regarding measles.
Such things would never happen in any kind of first world country. let's focus on exotic animal markets in China to make us all feel superior
No, health epidemics could never thrive in our amazing country because we have safe meat markets
Unlike China, the West tries to learn from its mistakes. It's why we have so much bureaucracy. The cost of red tape seems excessive until shit like this happens in the places that don't have red tape.
We do so much learning, its Yuuge I tell you. No other country learns so great. And our bureaucracy, everyone is jealous of it, it is so highly, so much red tape. Nobody has that much red tape.
https://qz.com/1790253/the-usda-is-recalling-more-unsafe-mea...
Lol
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/One-MacArthur-freeway...
This was an impressive thing to live through too...
You have an underclass who cannot afford to go to hospital or see a doctor, which extends well up into the low end of the working middle class.
You have employers who penalize workers for self-quarantine.
You have vicious mistreatment of undocumented people that makes them scared to draw official notice anywhere.
The military is quite experienced at putting up buildings very very fast.
What you should be asking yourself is how prepared is $country for an outbreak of a virulent pathogen? And; given its preparedness (1) how quickly could an area be cordoned off and quarantined, (2) how quickly could a makeshift medical structure to house an appreciable number of patients be slung together?
My wife ( mainland Chinese ) said the hospital in Chongqing told here there were 24 confirmed cases there. She’s sick now and possibly has the Wuhan virus ( though her chest scans are clear ).
Unfortunately the doctors are overworked right now due to the holidays and she can’t see anyone for the next couple days. Hopefully she doesn’t have the virus, but she’s taking precautions.
I think the virus is spreading more than the news is letting on.
* The hospitals in Wuhan are at absolute maximum capacity. they are lumping any fever cases (e.g. flu) patients with potential coronavirus patients in the same room.
* People with mild symptoms are sent home due to capacity, they are instructed to be quarantined at home unless symptoms get worse
* Despite reports, surgical masks are completely sold out in China, my dad is asking me to send him 3M (the brand) masks from abroad.
* Even hospitals are low on surgical masks for staff. Each nurse is given one or two masks per day, but per regulation, they needed to replace the mask every 3 hours.
* A wider scale locked down went in to effect in Wuhan this morning, forbidding anybody from entering or leaving on any roads, rail, water or flight.
* Domestic news are filled with non-sense, top 3 news today are praising Xi's CNY speech, which has exactly zero word mentioning the pandemic or Wuhan.
[Edit] One more thing,
* This coronavirus is potentially deadlier than SARS. Most of the 25 deaths are from the original 47 cases that was reported a few weeks ago.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Particulate-Respirator-8210-Pack/d...
I also went to tmall.com, Alibaba’s Chinese online marketplace, and it appears they are in stock too:
https://list.tmall.com/search_product.htm?q=%BF%DA%D5%D6n95&...
Edit: What the hell with downvotes on a stated fact?
Going to call bullshit on the claim that they're sold out in the US.
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/public-should-...
N95 masks need to be fit properly [1], and are very uncomfortable for daily use.
Surgical masks are a good compromise for going out in public, and mostly protect others from the mask-wearer. It's more important to practise good hygiene to avoid infection [2].
[1] https://www.osha.gov/video/respiratory_protection/fittesting...
[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/health/coronavirus-surgic...
Under this model, if everyone panics and wears masks to prevent themselves from getting sick, the spread of the disease will be crippled because everyone's wearing masks and people who are sick can't infect anyone else. It's a great idea.
This isn't really different from the herd immunity model of vaccination, where a lot of individuals getting vaccinated return a huge bonus to society in the form of herd immunity. If herd immunity were the only benefit, would we still want people to get vaccinated? Of course, that's why it's supposed to be mandatory.
I can't put my finger on this where I may have seen this foxy pattern before...
I assume there are exceptions made for appropriate officials and medical personnel, if adequate quarantine rues are followed, do the group attracting the crowd funding have access to this channel? Or drone based deliver perhaps (assuming they don't break the transport in/out rule despite not being manned so not presenting the same infection spread vector)?
I'd like to know the masks are going to go somewhere useful, rather than being blocked by the rules and distributed around officials instead of to hospital staff & patients and the public, before I donate.
That's not obvious. Here are some countries with higher estimated GDP per capita than China:
Mexico (roughly equal)
Malaysia (10% more)
Romania (24% more)
Uruguay (69% more)
Tweet in simplified Chinese: https://twitter.com/yajunwwz/status/1220632278688129029
With link to YouTube in Mandarin: https://youtu.be/N6jsuoxENPE
Is 3M a brand, or are you shipping three million masks?
(I checked five European papers from different countries, then five from African countries. It's on the homepage on all of them.)
I think with any new virus or etc folks focus on what they know at that time ... and effectively waiting for testing / what they observe to enhance their understanding.
The issue is that the Chinese gov't threatened prison to anyone who reported it.