In Switzerland during WWII, the population was advised to be suspicious of anyone not speaking the local dialect, especially of they asked for directions. The army removed all traffic signs in case of an invasion [0] and stores did not sell road maps anymore. Swiss German is (as most dialects) notoriously difficult to learn in later life for speakers of other dialects.
(Slightly related story: some years ago, I traveled back to Germany by train. A few minutes past the border, German border control went through the train and asked me for my ID card. I then realized that I had left my German ID card in the scanner at home a few days earlier because I needed a copy of it. The border control then naturally went through my backpack, which (what I then realized with horror) contained ca. 30 packs of matches. A few weeks earlier, we had a BBQ at a local lake and realized on the way that we had no matches to lit the fire, so we went to the next supermarket and just bought the cheapest offer, which happened to be a pack of 30. So there I was, crossing the border with no identification and nothing on me but a backpack full of matches. When they asked why I had so many matches on me, my 20-year old brain went into full self-destruction mode and I stuttered the following: "He-he-he, its not enough to build a bomb, isn't it?".
Luckily, I have an accent which makes it absolutely clear that I grew up around a major city in my home state. After asking me some questions about my birth town, other personal facts and making some calls, they didn't even fine me. I am quite sure that this would've been slightly more complicated if I had spoken perfect standard German, or had a foreign accent.)
I doubt my child (ethnic Swede with ethnic Swedish parents) knows the words of the song either - we haven't been to a traditional Midsummer celebration in years.
The article says she was asked what song is commonly sung on midsummer's eve in Sweden. She became uncertain, so the embassy person started singing "Små grodorna" and she felt compelled to sing along. Nowhere in the article does it say she was forced, or even asked, to sing the song. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't; the article only says she felt compelled.
Why cite statistics about the population of Sweden instead of statistics about Swedish citizens?
Looking at the statistics in the linked article, Sweden's population consists of 9.1% non-Swedish citizens, and 10.86% of Swedish citizens were born outside of Sweden.
The practice of checking people's accent to filter out foreigners is as old as recorded history. Literally. And with many examples following since the first mention in the Hebrew Bible.
Well, they were suspicious as far as those people were not carrying gold. If they were carrying gold, the Swiss were happy to profit from it no matter what their origin or the origin of the gold.
this would not work in the US. like i suspect most americans, i don't know all the words to the star spangled banner.
oh say can you see
by the dawn's early light
by something we hail
by the twilight's something streaming
oh the rocket's red glare
bombs bursting in air
gave proof through the night
that our flag was still there
something something something
and the banner yet waves
for the land of the free
and the home of the brave
Didn't think I would see Swedish on HN, awesome! I never heard about this when growing up in Sweden during the 90's so it's interesting to learn about it here.
I saw it several times when growing up in the 80's, but I was apparently too stupid to see the pun. I just kept thinking "Tiger? We don't have any damn tigers, this makes no sense."
Oh, I wish we'd had Wikipedia back then, so I wouldn't have had to feel like a complete moron when the penny finally dropped...
You are probably joking, but in case you are not the play on words only works in this particular configuration (present tense, "a Swedish tiger" vs "a Swede [keeps] quiet".
Sadly no, but good effort! What you wrote would literally translate to "Silence your of Sweden". If you want hush, I'd probably use "tyst" instead of "tig" as the former is more colloquial. If you squint and have a bit of an open mind, maybe you can construe your sentence as something like "Silence, you Swedes!" but it's a bit of a stretch.
Unnecessarily hostile comment. Sweden remained neutral through the war and did not partake in the fighting, as far as I know.
They didn't allow troop movements into Norway, but did allow troops to move through from Norway, into Finland. They allowed off-duty German soldiers to travel between Norway and Germany, and sold iron ore to Germany.
They also shared intelligence with the Allied forces, helped train Danish and Norwegian troops to liberate Denmark, allowed Allied forces use of its airbases, took in a lot of Jewish refugees from Norway and Denmark, The Swedish Red Cross sent buses to evacuate concentration camp inmates, and RAoul Wallenberg used his diplomatc status to save tens of thousands of Jews in Hungary as well.
Could you explain why you think a neutral country would not have secrets? E.g. currently being neutral doesn't mean you don't have preparations on what to do if you get attacked (indeed, both sides in WW2 considered an invasion of Sweden) and would like to keep those secret. You want to keep your diplomatic strategies secret to avoid them being exploited against you. Being neutral does neither necessarily mean "you allow everyone to do whatever they want in your country" nor "you do not interact with the warring parties at all".
Whether or not Sweden could be considered neutral is a different matter, but there's certainly no "rolling over" if you're never part of the operation in the first place.
Okay, so you run a country that’s useful to more than one side of the conflict in terms of geography and resources. You want to maintain neutrality, sovereignty and trade. Do you
a) let everyone know where your production happens, your military strength, your points of defense, where your most critical infrastructure is and how it works, your general opinion of the combatants, what trade is important to you etc. or
b) urge anyone with strategically useful information to keep quiet about it to keep any interested party ignorant and wary?
No one answered the question as you thought they would because they frankly assumed a more favorable interpretation. Neutrality is not a state of indefinite peace. It has to be maintained actively.
I totally agree. To blame Swedes (or Germans, or Turks, or… most countries throughout human history) today for their history is pretty much the same kind of jingoism as English people today saying they “won the war”.
The history of mankind is the history of war. It’s super complicated. We all should read about it, and try to learn its lessons. One of those lessons being to be skeptical of nationalism and xenophobia.
I'm playing rhetoric and you fell for it with the exact reaction I was expecting. Iron ore is iron ore, blame the ones who used its produce to harm your ancestors.
The Red Cross busses also transported prisoners in exchange for the Scandinian ones. Iirc the Swedish government also send a letter stating to rescue the Jews last. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Buses)
If you think bordering an invaded Norway, and Finland at war with the soviets is a stable situation where you neutrality will never be challenged, then I think you should consider some counterfactuals.
Any secret that would make them an interesting target, or aggravate a potential enemy, is a security threat.
Yes, it's complicated, and I'm not trying to defend any actions during the world war.
Only the notion that a country not in a hot war has no state secrets that can jeopardize security. Or just jeopardize the sitting government, this is a propaganda campaign after all.
You don’t need any knowledge of the Swedish language. It is explained on the Wikipedia page.
“Att tiga” means to keep quiet. One would say “Han/hon tiger” to mean “He/she is keeping quiet”. The word “tiger” in Swedish is also how they say the animal. That’s why it has a double meaning.
It’s literally the first sentence of the second paragraph on the page.
> In Swedish, the word svensk can mean both the adjective "Swedish" and the noun "Swede" while tiger can mean either the noun for the animal or the present tense of the verb tiga ("to keep silent", or more colloquially to "keep one's mouth shut"), giving the poster the double meaning "a Swedish tiger" or "a Swede keeps silent".
yeah, i do get that, but maybe my mind processes it a bit differently. in my mind, tigers = roaring, aggressiveness. that just overcomes the psychological effect of the wordplay for me.
thanks all for the clarifications. the only point i was making was that for some, the brain can be confused by seemingly contradictory imagery when the goal was to convey some wordplay.
this might be lost on me because no such wordplay exists in any language i am familiar with.
Contranyms (homophones with opposite meanings) exist in English.
A potential (contrived) example in English would be to use the notion of a strike in baseball as a covert communication for a worker strike. I could imagine signs and stickers made with an umpire making the strike hand gesture.
That's not completely contradictory, but maybe a self defense guide might use that imagery for instructing someone to strike an assailant. And there, a strike in baseball is literally missing the ball, or failing to strike the ball. So very opposite.
i was not aware of such a concept; it is interesting.
i was thinking back in wwii, if they had a "hush puppies" campaign in lieu of loose lips etc. - it probably would have been mis-processed in my mind as well. puppies = yapping. any other message would be swamped by the puppy noise.
my mind goes to the tangible, physical and spatial first, and the abstract/symbolic second.
ps, "fox" was a reference to the ylvis music video from 2014 or so. i thought perhaps in the scandinavian cultures foxes were associated with being quiet. universally, they are associated with being cautious and discreet. anyways, i would have been a bad propaganda writer for sweden in the 1940s. it would have been overrun with nazis within weeks if i were in charge of things.
i don't have any feel for the swedish culture or for tigers. but the way my mind processes it, i think of roaring and territoriality when it comes to tigers, which diminishes the effect of the wordplay meant by the signage.
I have always thought that this slight cognitive dissonance was deliberate:
"A Swede stays silent" as one meaning, while suggesting "a Swedish roaring aggressiveness" as the other meaning. In wartime, I think both these would make perfect sense, and combining them into one in a simple three-word message is very effective.
thinking about it more, perhaps this was the intent; being a noncombatant country, silence among the citizens was perhaps promoted as an act of fortitude in furtherance of their self-preservation, which could be associated with the character of a tiger.
I didn’t see mention of the obvious double “entendre” in the design as well, with the rather clear implication that prison awaits those that dare not comply.
When I first started my job in Stockholm there was a printout of this tiger logo with the saying that 10-12 were quiet hours, I knew about the saying but I didn't know about the history behind it, quite interesting!
In the early 2000s I made a t-shirt print with someone holding a seagull in front of a Swedish flag. The caption was "En svensk håller truten", which means both "A swede holds the seagull" and "a swede shuts up".
I gave it away and a random stranger online that was a bit more entrepreneurial than me printed it and made what 17-year old me considered a fortune.
Googling I think I actually found it:https://i.imagefra.me/88bf68ck
It is too long ago for me to remember how it looked exactly and the quality leaves things to the imagination, but iirc I actually drew that in an ancient version of gimp.
78 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 160 ms ] thread(Slightly related story: some years ago, I traveled back to Germany by train. A few minutes past the border, German border control went through the train and asked me for my ID card. I then realized that I had left my German ID card in the scanner at home a few days earlier because I needed a copy of it. The border control then naturally went through my backpack, which (what I then realized with horror) contained ca. 30 packs of matches. A few weeks earlier, we had a BBQ at a local lake and realized on the way that we had no matches to lit the fire, so we went to the next supermarket and just bought the cheapest offer, which happened to be a pack of 30. So there I was, crossing the border with no identification and nothing on me but a backpack full of matches. When they asked why I had so many matches on me, my 20-year old brain went into full self-destruction mode and I stuttered the following: "He-he-he, its not enough to build a bomb, isn't it?".
Luckily, I have an accent which makes it absolutely clear that I grew up around a major city in my home state. After asking me some questions about my birth town, other personal facts and making some calls, they didn't even fine me. I am quite sure that this would've been slightly more complicated if I had spoken perfect standard German, or had a foreign accent.)
[0] https://ulis-buecherecke.ch/pdf_infos_zur_schweiz/die_schwei...
Now, not even two decades later, Sweden's population is comprised of 18% born outside Sweden and 24% with a non-Swedish background. (source https://www.migrationsinfo.se/fragor-och-svar/hur-manga-utri... )
Små grodorna, små grodorna, så lustiga att se. Små grodorna, små grodorna ...???
And the next thing I remember is that stupid noise they make as they dance around the may pole.
Born 94, I believe this is the second part.
Små grodorna, små grodorna är lustiga att se.
Små grodorna, små grodorna är lustiga att se.
Ej öron, ej öron, ej svansar hava de.
Ej öron, ej öron, ej svansar hava de.
Kou-ack-ack-ack, kou-ack-ack-ack,
kou-ack-ack-ack-ack-kaa.
Kou-ack-ack-ack, kou-ack-ack-ack,
kou-ack-ack-ack-ack-kaa.
Cheers for remembering that last weird bit.
Looking at the statistics in the linked article, Sweden's population consists of 9.1% non-Swedish citizens, and 10.86% of Swedish citizens were born outside of Sweden.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
oh say can you see by the dawn's early light by something we hail by the twilight's something streaming oh the rocket's red glare bombs bursting in air gave proof through the night that our flag was still there something something something and the banner yet waves for the land of the free and the home of the brave
You have probably heard about it and will recognize it around after this HN post =)
Oh, I wish we'd had Wikipedia back then, so I wouldn't have had to feel like a complete moron when the penny finally dropped...
En tiger som skäms
And of course the cover of that album (Vapen och ammunition) being a black and white photo of a tiger.
i.e., Hush, y'all!
:)
Inga ordvitspoäng för mig idag då. Varken särskrivningspoäng eller ordvitspoäng :P
And if that's true, what was there to keep secret?
They didn't allow troop movements into Norway, but did allow troops to move through from Norway, into Finland. They allowed off-duty German soldiers to travel between Norway and Germany, and sold iron ore to Germany.
They also shared intelligence with the Allied forces, helped train Danish and Norwegian troops to liberate Denmark, allowed Allied forces use of its airbases, took in a lot of Jewish refugees from Norway and Denmark, The Swedish Red Cross sent buses to evacuate concentration camp inmates, and RAoul Wallenberg used his diplomatc status to save tens of thousands of Jews in Hungary as well.
To the original point, if they were "neutral", then what secrets did they have to hold?
What does "off duty" even mean in a world war? Not destroying Sweden but allowing them to bring ammunition through to pound Norway?
And if they were "neutral", why were they helping the Allies?
All in all, your comment does not add up.
Whether or not Sweden could be considered neutral is a different matter, but there's certainly no "rolling over" if you're never part of the operation in the first place.
a) let everyone know where your production happens, your military strength, your points of defense, where your most critical infrastructure is and how it works, your general opinion of the combatants, what trade is important to you etc. or
b) urge anyone with strategically useful information to keep quiet about it to keep any interested party ignorant and wary?
No one answered the question as you thought they would because they frankly assumed a more favorable interpretation. Neutrality is not a state of indefinite peace. It has to be maintained actively.
To whomever down-votes this: please learn your own country's history. https://www.thelocal.se/20120605/41252
That said, as a non Swede I still think we should make sure we don't blame Swedes today for what their ancestors did - and didn't.
The history of mankind is the history of war. It’s super complicated. We all should read about it, and try to learn its lessons. One of those lessons being to be skeptical of nationalism and xenophobia.
This is the worst take I have seen on this website.
Many Swedes did great things such as taking in Jewish refugees. The Swedish government however shifted sides as the war prospects changed.
The Red Cross busses also transported prisoners in exchange for the Scandinian ones. Iirc the Swedish government also send a letter stating to rescue the Jews last. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Buses)
Strategic, rather than neutral I would call it.
If you think bordering an invaded Norway, and Finland at war with the soviets is a stable situation where you neutrality will never be challenged, then I think you should consider some counterfactuals.
Any secret that would make them an interesting target, or aggravate a potential enemy, is a security threat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_of_German_troops_throu...
Only the notion that a country not in a hot war has no state secrets that can jeopardize security. Or just jeopardize the sitting government, this is a propaganda campaign after all.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
a swedish fox would make more sense.
This shows you didn’t actually read the [very short] Wikipedia page on this.
“Att tiga” means to keep quiet. One would say “Han/hon tiger” to mean “He/she is keeping quiet”. The word “tiger” in Swedish is also how they say the animal. That’s why it has a double meaning.
It’s literally the first sentence of the second paragraph on the page.
> In Swedish, the word svensk can mean both the adjective "Swedish" and the noun "Swede" while tiger can mean either the noun for the animal or the present tense of the verb tiga ("to keep silent", or more colloquially to "keep one's mouth shut"), giving the poster the double meaning "a Swedish tiger" or "a Swede keeps silent".
this might be lost on me because no such wordplay exists in any language i am familiar with.
A potential (contrived) example in English would be to use the notion of a strike in baseball as a covert communication for a worker strike. I could imagine signs and stickers made with an umpire making the strike hand gesture.
That's not completely contradictory, but maybe a self defense guide might use that imagery for instructing someone to strike an assailant. And there, a strike in baseball is literally missing the ball, or failing to strike the ball. So very opposite.
i was thinking back in wwii, if they had a "hush puppies" campaign in lieu of loose lips etc. - it probably would have been mis-processed in my mind as well. puppies = yapping. any other message would be swamped by the puppy noise.
my mind goes to the tangible, physical and spatial first, and the abstract/symbolic second.
"A Swede stays silent" as one meaning, while suggesting "a Swedish roaring aggressiveness" as the other meaning. In wartime, I think both these would make perfect sense, and combining them into one in a simple three-word message is very effective.
I gave it away and a random stranger online that was a bit more entrepreneurial than me printed it and made what 17-year old me considered a fortune.
Googling I think I actually found it:https://i.imagefra.me/88bf68ck It is too long ago for me to remember how it looked exactly and the quality leaves things to the imagination, but iirc I actually drew that in an ancient version of gimp.
http://i.imgur.com/16N9R.png
[1] https://kent.nu/latar/sverige/