I once did a motorcycle trip across Canada when I was young, poor, and eager to ride motorcycles. One night my plan was to make it to my friend's place in Montreal, but it got late and I was still in Ontario. Ontario is long. It's not easy to appreciate how long Ontario is. It was dark and I was tired, but I wasn't seeing any campgrounds and didn't want to spend money on a motel. So I kept pushing, as one does at that age, thinking I'd simply will myself to stay awake.
Suddenly I startled awake with the awareness that I had fallen asleep and had been riding while asleep (presumably just for a second or two). What shocked me awake was realizing that these lines of Coleridge's poem had been playing in my head:
Softly and smoothly went the ship,
Moved onward from beneath.
I had this poem in high school and frankly the only one I read countless times out of leisure somehow it stuck, for me especially the following lines keep playing in my head:
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.
and hence Iron Maiden song with the same name is now in my every playlist since.
I wonder about the significance of the setting in which the story is told. Is there something special about weddings? I know another literary work where strange characters appear during a wedding to tell their stories.
Weddings historically have been considered one of the happiest, most spirited and fun occasions in life. Any banquet or festival implied a break from work for many and a chance to eat and drink better than usual. They were displays of excess and festivity when such only came a few times a year or less. People wrote about them the way someone might write about taking an overseas vacation today.
I think the placement at the wedding is to contrast the horrowing nature of the tale. Setting a story at a wedding would instantly evoke a specific feeling in an audience similar to setting an event at a house party might instantly evoke a feeling in a modern reader (not the same emotions obviously).
Oh man, tights and long hair, I had forgotten about that. Weird how, say, Black Sabbath had a completely different fashion aesthetic even though they were playing similar music at around the same time.
There was some overlap but Black Sabbath started in 1968 while Iron Maiden's first album wasn't until 1980 (although they had been around for a while). That's quite a long time in music/fashion. Iron Maiden was part of the new wave of British Heavy metal which kicked off a lot of the bands like Metallica that went on to great success. Iron Maiden are still going strong and quite a lot of their songs have interesting links to history/literature. Up the Irons!
I remember ~35 years ago we played that for the English class, and Alexander the Great for history. Still a big Maiden fan, and going to their concerts.
In my accent (I'm British, with a classic 'semi-posh'[1] accent) and I say 'Marin-err' however when reading the poem, it seems to me that it supposed to be 'Marin-ear' so as to rhyme with 'hear'.
Back in 19th century, did people pronounce it differently, or is Coleridge bending the pronunciation to force the rhyme?
Interesting question - I don't think that there's a current British accent that would rhyme those two words, and 1834 seems too late for the Great Vowel Shift to have made any difference between then and now.
Not every rhyme in the poem is a full (aka "perfect") rhyme; there are a few half rhymes (cold/emerald, thus/albatross). So there's at least an argument that Coleridge didn't intend a full rhyme here.
"As printed the [hear/Mariner] rhyme is defective. In the original edition the spelling is Marinere wherever the word occurs."[0]
An archaism I suppose, like eftsoons etc. And about
How loudly his sweet voice he rears!
He loves to talk with marineres
That come from a far countree.
it says "In the early editions this is always spelt, as here,
with an added e ; when the poem was revised the e was dropped, except in this place, where it is retained on account of the rhyme."
And the -ear sound is better for rhyming! e.g.
Alas! (thought I, and my heart beat loud)
How fast she nears and nears!
Are those her sails that glance in the Sun,
Like restless gossameres?
Also, re the there/are/prayer rhyme
What loud uproar bursts from that door!
The wedding-guests are there:
But in the garden-bower the bride
And bride-maids singing are:
And hark the little vesper bell,
Which biddeth me to prayer!
"A great many English-speaking people incorrectly pronounce 'are' like 'air,' and [this rhyme], viewed in connection with the one before us,
[Sometimes all little birds that are,
How they seemed to fill the sea and air]
would seem to indicate that this was Coleridge's pronunciation."
Finally,
"The pronunciation of [Coleridge] is indicated by Coleridge himself in the following couplet :
Could you stand upon Skiddaw, you would not from its whole ridge
See a man who so loves you as your fond S. T. Coleridge."
These are very useful notes. It doesn't look like they address this one:
FIRST VOICE
But why drives on that ship so fast,
Without or wave or wind?'
SECOND VOICE
'The air is cut away before,
And closes from behind.
When I was memorizing this poem with my friends in high-school this was a high point. All as one, we'd say "And closes from BEE-HIHND," rhyming it with "wind" and then breaking up in gales of laughter.
The Road to Xanadu by John Livingston Lowes is a classic study on the literary influences in the writing of The Rime of the Ancient Mariner and Kubla Khan that tracks down the source of almost every word and phrase in the poems, from Coleridge's wide reading. Highly recommended!
Yes, the “person from Porlock” who knocked on his door to sell him insurance. That’s the most enduring thing about that poem, as it’s so relatable. Those people from Porlock are everywhere.
Well..it seems to me extremely crass, more like a youtube comment, or something out of a Bill & Ted movie.
The question wasn't a real question. It seemed some kind of showing off. If you really want to know the answer you'd google it. If you ask in public like that it seems something else.
The comment felt like "Drugs! Rock'n'Roll! I'm Cool!" and little else. I'm not into opiates or rock'n'roll (or fake questions), so it was 100% turn-off.
I can't speak for the op, but I found it an interesting bit of trivia. Sure, they could have googled it, but if they had, I wouldn't know about the origins of this poem. And thanks to the replies, I now know what a 'person from Porlock' means. Reading that comment was a win for me. If the person was jostling for status (and I don't see a reason to think that), well, I still benefitted.
Whether you like opiates or not, one of your favorite poems would not exists without them, and you just have to deal with it. "Drugs! Rock'n'Roll! I'm Cool!" is such a naive way to describe the usage of various drugs in art circles. The existence of "intoxicated" masterpieces is a serious reason to praise (or, at least tolerate) drugs.
Something being turn-off for you is not a sound reason for advocating censorship. Also, not all the comments that are written to your posts are direct questions to You. "Fake questions" are usually known as rhetoric questions, and you surely know that. Don't you?
Is it really necessary to try to "explain" what Iron Maiden is? They are worldwide famous, and the least famous part of Iron Maiden is that they may be British.
It's like saying: "this device is produced by an American phone manufacturer - Apple".
As a GenX-er I'd love to disagree, but I just remembered when people got upset that some upstart called U2 just invaded their iTunes collection[0]. Growing old is hard.
Recently I was looking for an Iron Maiden coffee mug for a friend, and I asked an employee of the shop. She looked at me with a puzzled look and asked "What is Iron Maiden"? I explained it was a metal band. She probably thought I was looking for a mug made of metallic material, so she happily pointed me in a direction and said "travel mugs are over there"
Especially if we pretend that "rime" starts with a silent "c" (his hair is of course grey from the many times he wrestled with the question of bumping the version number vs slipping it out as an surely-that's-still-compatible fix)
I finally understand that chapter near the end of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency a bit better. Going to have to read this, then re-read that book to see what else I missed.
53 comments
[ 6.6 ms ] story [ 124 ms ] threadSuddenly I startled awake with the awareness that I had fallen asleep and had been riding while asleep (presumably just for a second or two). What shocked me awake was realizing that these lines of Coleridge's poem had been playing in my head:
I checked into the next motel.I think the placement at the wedding is to contrast the horrowing nature of the tale. Setting a story at a wedding would instantly evoke a specific feeling in an audience similar to setting an event at a house party might instantly evoke a feeling in a modern reader (not the same emotions obviously).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7zk4as9kzA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbDfR4UgIWY
Here's one of my favorite bands live, Black Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio on vocals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ4aCUlijfw
In my accent (I'm British, with a classic 'semi-posh'[1] accent) and I say 'Marin-err' however when reading the poem, it seems to me that it supposed to be 'Marin-ear' so as to rhyme with 'hear'.
Back in 19th century, did people pronounce it differently, or is Coleridge bending the pronunciation to force the rhyme?
---
[1] Home Counties, for you other brits.
Not every rhyme in the poem is a full (aka "perfect") rhyme; there are a few half rhymes (cold/emerald, thus/albatross). So there's at least an argument that Coleridge didn't intend a full rhyme here.
See https://books.google.com/books?id=z3kKAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA451#v=on... and https://books.google.com/books?id=EXEUPL_Jv2MC&lpg=PA61&ots=...
"As printed the [hear/Mariner] rhyme is defective. In the original edition the spelling is Marinere wherever the word occurs."[0]
An archaism I suppose, like eftsoons etc. And about
it says "In the early editions this is always spelt, as here, with an added e ; when the poem was revised the e was dropped, except in this place, where it is retained on account of the rhyme."And the -ear sound is better for rhyming! e.g.
Also, re the there/are/prayer rhyme "A great many English-speaking people incorrectly pronounce 'are' like 'air,' and [this rhyme], viewed in connection with the one before us, would seem to indicate that this was Coleridge's pronunciation."Finally,
"The pronunciation of [Coleridge] is indicated by Coleridge himself in the following couplet :
[0] https://archive.org/stream/coleridgesancient00cole/coleridge...FIRST VOICE
But why drives on that ship so fast, Without or wave or wind?'
SECOND VOICE
'The air is cut away before, And closes from behind.
When I was memorizing this poem with my friends in high-school this was a high point. All as one, we'd say "And closes from BEE-HIHND," rhyming it with "wind" and then breaking up in gales of laughter.
"prow, the Classical equivalent of the Teutonic bow, rimes with blow only to the eye. Such are called printers' rhymes."
Did you manage to memorize it?? It's long! I chose Kubla Khan, more sensibly.
About the spelling rime he says
"Rime. — This word has during the last three centuries been usually but improperly spelt rhyme, probably through confusion with rhythm"
which seems right e.g.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/rhyme
Having said that, 'Rhod Gilbert Welsh' (in my head anyway) isn't that far off rhyming with 'mariner' itself.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_and_imperfect_rhymes#I...
I guess having the power to delete unwanted child comments would be too much, but moments like these it's a power I'd really like to have.
The question wasn't a real question. It seemed some kind of showing off. If you really want to know the answer you'd google it. If you ask in public like that it seems something else.
The comment felt like "Drugs! Rock'n'Roll! I'm Cool!" and little else. I'm not into opiates or rock'n'roll (or fake questions), so it was 100% turn-off.
Why, what value do you think the comment had?
I can't speak for the op, but I found it an interesting bit of trivia. Sure, they could have googled it, but if they had, I wouldn't know about the origins of this poem. And thanks to the replies, I now know what a 'person from Porlock' means. Reading that comment was a win for me. If the person was jostling for status (and I don't see a reason to think that), well, I still benefitted.
Something being turn-off for you is not a sound reason for advocating censorship. Also, not all the comments that are written to your posts are direct questions to You. "Fake questions" are usually known as rhetoric questions, and you surely know that. Don't you?
Ancient spoiler: it's a plot point in a Douglas Adams novel.
Is it really necessary to try to "explain" what Iron Maiden is? They are worldwide famous, and the least famous part of Iron Maiden is that they may be British.
It's like saying: "this device is produced by an American phone manufacturer - Apple".
[0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-09-11/-who-is-u...