As long as general websites load in under a certain time period the sites seem to maximize bloat up to that point. Reminds of the commuting time period—-if more highways are built to reduce traffic and speed up commutes, more people will drive, eventually more will relocate so that the average commute ends up being ~40 minutes again. Whatever tolerance is true for the vast majority of users can often become the standard, and if so then non-vocal small opposing groups are forced to adapt...or just complain.
I read papers about video compression sometimes. Some introductory paragraph about how much of the internet's bandwidth is consumed by video and therefore how much we have to gain from better video compression appears with amusing frequency.
Try browsing the web on a 128kbps ISDN-like connection, many sites are too slow to be usable or outright broken due to their own timeouts.
What I've noticed is many new sites are using huge high-res images as some kind of maximum-common-denominator to ensure things look great on high dpi screens, while everyone else has to transfer all this junk only to downscale it anyways at render time.
I'm often on a slow link and it's made me stop using the web almost entirely, outside of HN and reddit. Slack for instance is completely broken, it can't even manage to finish logging in without giving up.
It used to be that slow internet users just had to wait longer, but things largely worked correctly. Nowadays, with lots more javascript and async stuff having web developers programming timeouts and probably never once testing on a slow link, a lot of things are flat out broken.
> What I've noticed is many new sites are using huge high-res images as some kind of maximum-common-denominator to ensure things look great on high dpi screens
Obviously this is far from good but what's the practical solution for this?
As far as I know, doing this with HTML + CSS alone by yourself is tedious and error-prone e.g. figure out manually the maximum size of each image, generate all variations of the image sizes yourself, then use HTML/CSS to load the right ones.
There's CDN, web server and CMS specific solutions that dynamically resize + cache images on demand but they're far from common place so I'm not surprised most website owners don't do this well.
How do you generate the image files srcset is meant to load? How many different width and DPI variations do you make? How do you generate the srcset markup to load the right image file? What's your workflow when you want to update an image and change its width?
I presume you're expected to work in the highest dpi, then have a post process stage for publishing the site which then generates the variants for you.
With better formatting. You make a text only or otherwise very reduced version of your site available to visitors. Ideally in that version you drop the images entirely. You can optionally attempt to measure the capabilities of a visitor, how they're experiencing your site, and actively present them with the reduced option (the far easier thing to do, is to just make a reduced version available and let visitors know it exists somewhere prominent enough). Visitors want the content, not the ridiculous SEO image.
If you build for this from the beginning of a site, it's extremely easy to deliver and maintain.
We were doing some latency testing/troubleshooting at the browser level one day when we found out the background image for our website was an unoptimized 13MB png... that information was quickly forwarded to the front end team.
We had some storms and network outages yesterday. I was down to 3G, it seemed like dialup speeds. Hacker news faithfully loaded after 30 seconds (I think most of that time there was zero connection, so when a few bytes could fly through it loaded up).
I couldn't get any other site to load. Not even google.com.
It made me want to create a website called "lowbandwidthsites.com" or similar that is itself minimal and just lists the sites that you can load when there is low bandwidth for news etc.
A low bandwitdth read-only repeater for sites like reddit.com would be handy. Or maybe a general purpose low bandwidth repeater that can take any site - a bit like outline.com/mysite.com but even lower fidelity - just returns the markdown!
> It made me want to create a website called "lowbandwidthsites.com" or similar that is itself minimal and just lists the sites that you can load when there is low bandwidth for news etc.
It wouldn't even be about "when there is low bandwidth" for me. I'd love to see a network of sites and blogs that stick to minimal/simple design.
Maybe a website that consists of a Medium-clone but super lightweight (allowing users to have their own blogs without the bloat), plus a directory of external sites that stick to the same ethos. Throw in a feed showing you new blog posts and directory links (maybe also pull in posts from the external sites via RSS), and that pretty much sounds like heaven to me personally.
I hate browsing the modern web. It's like wading through a sewer looking for treasure.
Reddit in particular has https://i.reddit.com. I don't know that it's quite light enough for a situation where even Google.com is too much, but it's pretty darn lean.
HN works great on my EDGE (2G) Blackberry 8700g (2006) with Opera in SF. Handy on the Muni. Basically no other site is usable at this point unless it's HTML-only.
However, I understand that telcos are attempting to not support 2G any longer, so don't plan on that working much longer. T-mobile still has fairly good urban EDGE coverage, except for SF FiDi.
> I couldn't get any other site to load. Not even google.com.
The google UI appears minimal, but they're loading a ton of javascript.
Yeah it said "3G" but it seemed more like 33.6kbps dial up speeds of yore based on the experience. I've gone through extended periods of using both 3G and 33.6kbps to know the feel!
But still 1st world problems. A CB or ham radio would have been nice though!
22 comments
[ 581 ms ] story [ 1284 ms ] threadI read papers about video compression sometimes. Some introductory paragraph about how much of the internet's bandwidth is consumed by video and therefore how much we have to gain from better video compression appears with amusing frequency.
Try browsing the web on a 128kbps ISDN-like connection, many sites are too slow to be usable or outright broken due to their own timeouts.
What I've noticed is many new sites are using huge high-res images as some kind of maximum-common-denominator to ensure things look great on high dpi screens, while everyone else has to transfer all this junk only to downscale it anyways at render time.
I'm often on a slow link and it's made me stop using the web almost entirely, outside of HN and reddit. Slack for instance is completely broken, it can't even manage to finish logging in without giving up.
It used to be that slow internet users just had to wait longer, but things largely worked correctly. Nowadays, with lots more javascript and async stuff having web developers programming timeouts and probably never once testing on a slow link, a lot of things are flat out broken.
Obviously this is far from good but what's the practical solution for this?
As far as I know, doing this with HTML + CSS alone by yourself is tedious and error-prone e.g. figure out manually the maximum size of each image, generate all variations of the image sizes yourself, then use HTML/CSS to load the right ones.
There's CDN, web server and CMS specific solutions that dynamically resize + cache images on demand but they're far from common place so I'm not surprised most website owners don't do this well.
It looks like this:
https://text.npr.org
Or:
https://lite.cnn.io
With better formatting. You make a text only or otherwise very reduced version of your site available to visitors. Ideally in that version you drop the images entirely. You can optionally attempt to measure the capabilities of a visitor, how they're experiencing your site, and actively present them with the reduced option (the far easier thing to do, is to just make a reduced version available and let visitors know it exists somewhere prominent enough). Visitors want the content, not the ridiculous SEO image.
If you build for this from the beginning of a site, it's extremely easy to deliver and maintain.
I couldn't get any other site to load. Not even google.com.
It made me want to create a website called "lowbandwidthsites.com" or similar that is itself minimal and just lists the sites that you can load when there is low bandwidth for news etc.
A low bandwitdth read-only repeater for sites like reddit.com would be handy. Or maybe a general purpose low bandwidth repeater that can take any site - a bit like outline.com/mysite.com but even lower fidelity - just returns the markdown!
Edit looks like it has been done: https://www.textise.net/
It wouldn't even be about "when there is low bandwidth" for me. I'd love to see a network of sites and blogs that stick to minimal/simple design.
Maybe a website that consists of a Medium-clone but super lightweight (allowing users to have their own blogs without the bloat), plus a directory of external sites that stick to the same ethos. Throw in a feed showing you new blog posts and directory links (maybe also pull in posts from the external sites via RSS), and that pretty much sounds like heaven to me personally.
I hate browsing the modern web. It's like wading through a sewer looking for treasure.
> I was down to 3G, it seemed like dialup speeds.
Sounds like first-world problems! :)
HN works great on my EDGE (2G) Blackberry 8700g (2006) with Opera in SF. Handy on the Muni. Basically no other site is usable at this point unless it's HTML-only.
However, I understand that telcos are attempting to not support 2G any longer, so don't plan on that working much longer. T-mobile still has fairly good urban EDGE coverage, except for SF FiDi.
> I couldn't get any other site to load. Not even google.com.
The google UI appears minimal, but they're loading a ton of javascript.
But still 1st world problems. A CB or ham radio would have been nice though!
and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11659026
2017: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14088092