I'm not sure on your logic for that statement, but I can't agree with it as presented.
Reporting of impaired or unsafe driving is something worth preserving, making that require technology severely limits the pool of citizens able to do that, and I don't see any other way to preserve it.
Can you explain? As a cheap and pretty much failure-free means of visually broadcasting the identity of a vehicle, they seem pretty irreplaceable. Anything requiring electronics is much more prone to failure. Even airplanes have their call signs written clearly somewhere on their body.
A small nitpick: planes have their registration, not their call signs (which change based on the flight) printed on them.
Now for GA aircraft the call sign used is usually their registration no. (not sure it's mandatory for them, but that's what's used). For commercial, it's related to their flight number.
If I took off my license plate, that would be noticed quickly. If I were to disable my car's transponder, how long would it take for anybody to notice? Transponders would not be tamper evident at first glance and are therefore not, and never will be, an adequate replacement for license plates.
Yep, I can take plates off of relatively anycar I see, preferably the same make, model, and color. Skip tolls, red lights, kill anyone, be a get away vehicle, collect parking tickets practically do anything I want where I didn't want to be identified by my license plate. License plates unless they're permanently affixed to cars is a bit outdated.
Identifying license plates on the vehicle should be more permanent. Similar to the VIN. Otherwise if they can be changed so easily they're kind of pointless. They operate on good faith.
>Identifying license plates on the vehicle should be more permanent. Similar to the VIN. Otherwise if they can be changed so easily they're kind of pointless. They operate on good faith.
If you get pulled over and have your fake plates ran you've already lost any gains from skipping tolls. If they're using ANPR, they don't even need to pull you over.
Saw a few of these this weekend, I'm curious to see if the 407 (Ontario's toll road)cameras can read them at night. I imagine this gets changed quite quickly if they can only read the old plates.
On CBC radio call in portion of a show a police officer agreed they're not good to read, definitely not easier, and I believe he was the caller that theorized that the blue background colour is reflective but they didn't reflect the letting itself: he theorized that made it easier for toll cameras to read the plates (better contrast) but not for human eyes.
Also an ex-firefighter called in too and said that the flat plates (old ones had the characters imprinted) would make it more difficult to identify the remains of fiery vehicle crashes.
True, but they said "more difficult", with plates it takes minutes for a Police officer over the radio to give you information on the Make/Model of a vehicle. Then for more details, you can fetch the VIN, but that is a more difficult task.
Ehh, the 407 is owned by the CPP (50.01%). Ford isn't a fan of the CPP, he tried to cut the increase almost immediately after taking office, I could see him cutting them out. This is also seen in Alberta, another conservative-led province, they've been trying to back out of it for years.
Also, and this is anecdotal, I'm from a small town that votes overwhelmingly conservative, and a common talking point I hear is "why should we pay into the cpp? It won't be there when we retire" even though the fund is in no danger of going away anytime soon.
As someone who spent a long time in proximity to government processes similar to what decided upon these plates I assure you that the government will not shoot its ability to collect revenue in the foot. I think it's very safe to assume that these plates are wonderfully legible in the spectrum that ALPRs use.
> Saw a few of these this weekend, I'm curious to see if the 407 (Ontario's toll road)cameras can read them at night. I imagine this gets changed quite quickly if they can only read the old plates.
It would be nice if some of the US states without tolls could do this on purpose, because many of the ones with them use them primarily to extract revenue from out of state drivers disproportionate to the cost of their use of the roads.
This would also improve the privacy of their citizens, since it would presumably also interfere with ALPR in general and keep their vehicles' location history from ending up in adversarial third party databases.
Anti-ALPR license plates are a feature, not a bug.
What's the point of a number plate if it's not to allow a stranger at a distance to identify the car? It seems that Anti-ALPR plates are indeed a bug, although plates may be a misfeature.
> What's the point of a number plate if it's not to allow a stranger at a distance to identify the car?
The point is to allow a human to identify the car, not a network of cameras connected to a computer database. The ideal would be a plate that could be read by humans but not cameras, but failing that, a plate that can't be read by either is preferable to one that can be read by both. That still serves a purpose in satisfying legacy regulatory requirements to have a number plate even if it's now vestigial and no longer serves any non-bureaucratic purpose.
The case for number plates has really eroded over time. Originally they couldn't be used for tracking because the logistics for that didn't exist, so that cost wasn't there and now it is. At the same time, their original value was always rather modest. The strongest case is for serious crimes like a hit and run, but even in those cases you need someone to get the plate number which they commonly fail to do, and in the most serious cases it's even less likely because a victim who dies can't remember the plate. So we're talking about it helping in a minority of a minority cases to begin with.
Meanwhile in modern times it's more likely that the perpetrator will be caught on video (especially when every bystander has a camera phone), and then you have their face in combination with the make, model and color of the vehicle, which is enough to have a non-trivial chance of getting caught and preserve the deterrent even without the number plate.
So on the one hand they now have a huge privacy cost that wasn't there before, on the other hand the value was never that high to begin with and it's even lower today than it was originally. So maybe we should just get rid of them.
It's rather irritating when you go through a toll booth for a dollar toll, and the scanner for whatever reason doesn't scan your EasyPass, and then you either have to mail a check and attach a $0.55 stamp or pay a $3 credit card processing fee.
Well that's bloody ironic isn't it... That the government ensured that the 407 cameras (privately owned) can read the plates, but didn't bother to make sure the speed and red light cameras (government owned) can as well...!
I think it's a bit more precisely that the new plate is entirely retro-reflective while the old one was not reflective at all on the letter, almost binary.
As the article states, it's in the same colour as the centre-right (by US standards) political party and to many of us here it feels like they're "trolling the libs" with these plates. One of the early plans of this government was to remove parts of The Greenbelt[0] and turn it into more suburban sprawl. Thankfully this was canceled after outrage from people here. So "A Place to Grow" seems extra rich in light of that. It's an economic message, not an environmental one.
Most greenbelts are almost completely environmental failures. Designed to concentrate development on the inner core, they simply encourage the spread of the massive bedroom communities that develop outside of the greenbelt. They're also generally too small to support a viable large animal population which are a critical part of any ecosystem.
But AFAICT, the golden horseshoe greenbelt has neither of these problems: it's very large, and on the far side of most GTA bedroom communities.
They are related in that a government decided to politicize something like water testing (or in this case, environmental protection).
The watersheds are essential for filtering water that hits Ontarian cities.
Walkerton was the result of negligence and disregard for the environment and people's safety.
We could easily run into a similar situation if faced with similar wanton disregard for the functions of the watersheds by deregulating the greenbelt and selling the land off to private suburban development companies whose sole priority is extracting as much profit as possible from initial sales. (Opening that land up to private developers was Ford's stated intention and he only backed down after he drew a lot of public outrage at the notion).
Had the good fortune today to drive behind two cars, side by side, one sporting the old license plate and the other the old one. I could only read the old, white background plate but not the new blue one. And that was in broad daylight.
Anyone claiming that the blue plates are perfectly readable has either never seen them in action or is downright lying.
Incredible that vehicle plates are a political issue but there you have it. Nothing is too low in Ontario politics anymore.
It is apparently not illegal in Ontario to put these very, very dark plastic covers over your plates either, making them so dark that they're barely legible unless you have your nose on that car. Including the (now) old design.
Really, all you can see is a dark, smoked, grey rectangle where the plate is. I'm amazed this is legal.
Yep, add a layer of salt in winter and the plates are often completely, 100% not readable even if you're standing 2 feet from them in broad daylight, leaning over to try to discern the characters.
It's not legal. Your plates have to be legible. But much like many other portions of the Traffic Act, it's unenforced, so it's not really a "law" per se, more like a suggestion.
There probably is, but the police has better things to do than enforce traffic laws in Toronto (Ontario?) apparently.
Really, the joke goes that if you want to kill someone in Ontario then do it while driving your car. It's even better if your victim is on a bike. Then you get a 500$ fine and back at the wheel. "Woops, didn't see them" is a valid defense, no matter the circumstances.
That assumes that any of this was really about the streetlamp though. Note that the person riding a bicycle was also guilty of the crime of "wearing dark clothing".
It is illegal in Ontario. From the Ontario Highway Traffic Act:
Number plates, further violations
No other numbers to be exposed
13 (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).
Number plate to be kept clean
(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).
Obstruction prohibited
(3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using an automated speed enforcement system. 2017, c. 9, s. 3.
Same
(3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).
Same
(3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).
Offence
(4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).
Right. You wouldn’t be able to tell by just walking around though. Every third cars has one of these plate darkener screens. And many cars also have windows so tinted you can’t even tell if it’s a man or a woman driving.
Georgia (the state) had to re-vote on a couple of their new license plate designs because one plate had "In God We Trust" on it, and the other plate didn't. I believe the ACLU (or who ever brought up the problem) was worried that people would think that only the one plate would be available with the "In God We Trust" sticker
When the Department of Revenue published the proposed designs, some of them contained the phrase "In God We Trust," while others didn't. It wasn't made clear that the phrase "In God We Trust" wasn't part of any of the designs; it's just an optional sticker that goes where the county name (also a sticker) is usually found on the plate. The miscommunication upset just about everyone because the vote (which was just an online poll, not an official vote) to select a new design effectively became a referendum on whether the state's license plate should contain the phrase "In God We Trust." The Department of Revenue decided to republish the proposed designs without the sticker so that the public could vote again.
> The plates also had a new slogan – "A Place to Grow" – which drew the ire of some critics, who preferred the previous "Yours to Discover," which the plates had sported since 1982
Both are just as corny as they are useless in a license plate. Why put in novelty stuff? License plates are for identification, and should serve solely that function.
Just a reminder that "drew the ire of some critics" is journo speak for "somebody tweeted something".
Twitter is a goldmine for making issues seem more controversial than they really are. Just search Twitter for the topic of your article and you'll always find at least one dissenting voice.
As a New York resident I noticed when the plates changed in 2010 I personally found them harder to read [0]. The white background with dark letters/numbers used from 2001-2010 seemed like the better option... I wonder what law enforcement thought of the change. Seems they are about to change again to something with better contrast starting April 2020 [1].
Also an interesting side note I've noticed that a lot of the new license plates are peeling causing them to look entirely metallic. I see NY dropped their contract with 3M likely due to this issue [2].
I don't think that the police had a problem with the black-on-orange color scheme. It worked fine for New York for what seemed like forever back in the 70's.
As for peeling paint, that's a problem that West Virginia has in the early 90's, too. The urban legend was that it was caused by the prisoners who made the plates peeing in the paint.
That is likely true and perhaps it is just my vision. I just find the contrast to be worse leading to me personally having a harder time reading it in moving-vehicle conditions.
All NY license plates are made in the Auburn Correctional Facility. Had they been made in multiple locations it would be interesting to see if all of the problems were stemming from a single source or if it is an issue with materials. That is an interesting urban legend.
it all went down hill when license plates became a money making proposition to the states. from all the special interest plates and college plates it is just too much.
then comes the fun in my state where EV plates come with a penalty, even higher fees on top of what I pay for yearly renewals hence I keep my Veterans plate.
There are also a lot of people putting a coating over the numbers to make them not reflective and unable to be read by red light cameras and other automated means.
It seems that, as governments become more and more preoccupied with viewing license plates as an advertising platform, they've largely lost sight of their actual purpose.
I would expect disdain from engineers (and tax payers in general) for a poor design. There's another interesting market that might really like an invisible license plate...
The previous ones were at least legible, but for several years had manufacturing issues. The paint peeled and flaked off of many, many plates. I'm not sure how long the supply of old plates will last.
At least the plate belongs to the owner and not the car. I plan to keep my two sets of (now old) plates as long as possible.
There's no upside in having your own plates particularly legible. It's entirely a commons thing, nobody would opt into having plates at all if they were not mandatory.
It works. The US has a remarkable ability to aim for the lowest common denominator -- in movies, in food, in technology -- and export that to the rest of the world. We're very good at finding things that are broadly appealing, and rewarding the people who create them.
Politics is no exception. The world watches us, and they take what works. None of it is ever really novel, but a lot of it lies fallow until somebody says, "Hey, we should try that again." And at first people may say, "You can't do that, because mumble mumble," but the reply is "I can't hear you over the sound of you losing."
Trolling your opponents is hardly new, but we've polished it off and discovered that it's a great way to bond a political party. They feel enthusiastic, and they go out and vote for more of it, while demoralizing your opponents -- who go out and try to make sense even harder, and fail worse, because it's the reason they lose in the first place. They remain baffled that people fall for cheap tricks, without ever accepting the reality that they do.
I loathe so much about my America's politics right now, but the US is not the source of all negative political activity. It's such a broad, incorrect assertion on its face.
No offence to any American looking to feel influential, but the Ford brothers were operating this tabloid populist bandwagon up here before Trump stepped up.
I thought Doug Ford entered politics in 2010. Before Trump was elected but after he became a Republican attack dog on Twitter, spreading lies about candidate Barack Obama.
Before Trump launched a serious populist political machine. Rob Ford started rolling the ball in 2001.
The start of political office Trump, when the actual machinery was put into motion as an organization, was 2016. They would have been crazy to not be using the Ford brothers as a useful model.
"Thompson added that the technology on the new plates has already been adopted by provinces like Saskatchewan and Manitoba and can be read by Highway 407’s automated toll cameras."
If this assertion is true, bulk surveillance is not impaired; only the ability of individual humans to identify the vehicle.
True, and absolutely the most crazy part of this whole debacle so far. Even if the old plates were launched by the previous Liberal government... so what? They were as neutral as possibly imaginable.
In fairness, the Liberals did change the black on yellow plates to red on white, the Liberal party colours, in 2007. They also added a french slogan to the blue and white plates in 2008.
So what indeed. It really doesn't matter. But, there is at least a modicum of truth in the statement.
Additionally, the previous blue on white design was really on the NDP. The Conservatives' only contribution to the design was accommodating the seventh character when valid six character combinations ran out.
Side note: why did Ontario voters go from one Ford to another? Did they think, I loved the previous Ford except for the drugs and debauchery? Why does name count for so much in elections? Sigh
I wouldn't be too harsh on the Ontario voters; if the Conservatives had any bit of competence they would have been able to win the 2011 and 2014 elections easily. By 2018 the Liberals were about 10 years past their sell-by date. Few were particularly thrilled voting for Doug Ford but they felt their alternatives were worse. I didn't vote for Ford but at least understood the people that did.
The story goes that urban Toronto didn't vote for Ford, but the suburbs and the rest of the province is who he was targeting and they really responded to his populist platform. And there are enough people not living in Toronto DT to win him the election.
Recall that this is the same provincial government that used public money to put stickers on gas pumps in what amounts to a protest on federal carbon taxes. Taxpayer money spent on a brazenly partisan political campaign.
If anyone thinks this is hyperbole, there is a CBC interview with Doug where he claims Trump "took a page out of their book" and not the other way around. There are other occasions where he has spoken about his admiration for Trump, and opted to stay at Trump's hotel while on a diplomatic visit.
Edit: Since this is drawing some ire I thought I would clarify that this is no remark on either politician in itself. They are Doug Ford's words.
This site is not the vehicle for slinging political commentary and trying to be edgy, even if I might agree with it. Perhaps you would feel more at home on Reddit.
That’s okay, I fully support him. There’s bound to be differences of opinion, but after a decade and half of liberal corruption, Doug Ford is incredibly refreshing. Will vote for him again.
Pity that HN is so ideologically biased. Would've been nice to have thoughtful discussion, but I suppose this isn't actually the platform for that, atleast on subjects like this.
While I don't agree with your points about Ford, I did upvote both you comments as I don't believe a difference of opinion is enough to necessitate a downvote.
> Taxpayer money spent on a brazenly partisan political campaign.
I will take 200 sticker campaigns over what the Canadian Federal Liberals are doing with their "journalism initiative". That initiative is $600 million being given openly to news agencies who agree with the Canadian Liberals or are approved by a body composed largely of Liberal and Liberal-friendly decision makers. This is a solid step towards the rise of populism in Canada as it legitimizes every single claim of media bias and calls of "fake news".
By comparison, stickers are just a waste of money, but they don't threaten the very core of the country.
I’m curious just what process was in place to let this happen. Yes, I know it’s government, but I’m really curious what organizational process is in place to allow such an obvious thing to slip through.
The current conservative government has no organizational process. Dougie makes a decision and then it's implemented at breakneck speed, ignoring all precedent, organizational structure, and institutional learning.
He drew the new "Ontario Line" subway with a marker, replacing decades of planning for the Relief Line Toronto needs desperately. The subway is dangerously overcrowded at peak times and these changes will likely set the opening date back years.
He ordered gas stations to display a sticker showing the cost of the federal carbon tax simply because he doesn't like it with no planning. That was after scrapping the existing cap and trade program with a single pen stroke (costing the province hundreds of millions in broken contracts). Leaving the existing program alone would have meant no federal carbon tax.
He invented an environmental issues with bats to halt construction on a partially complete windfarm. Even local bat experts have no idea what he's talking about.
He passed a law saying public servants can't get a raise more than 1% prior to negotiating with the various teacher unions so he could negotiate in bad faith. After claiming there was no money for teachers he started paying parents a per diem for childcare during the rotating strikes.
During an active election he changed the number of councillors in Toronto city hall and threatened to use the notwithstanding clause to enforce it.
Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. All of these policies were announced with no public discussion, input period, or time to contact MPPs. Simply dreamt up by Dougie on the weekend and implemented Monday morning.
Premiers of provinces have a ton of power and not much beyond parliamentary norms hold them in check. Doug has exploited this to an extreme extent.
> He invented an environmental issues with bats to halt construction on a partially complete windfarm. Even local bat experts have no idea what he's talking about.
Worse! They actively started tearing down completed windmills as part of that project to the tune of $100 million!
So what if they did? The people forced to live with the windmills never wanted, gained nothing from them, and were completely sidelined, vilified, and cast as hicks, rednecks, or climate deniers for having the audacity to question the plan. They fought back using the ballot box and now are being rewarded with what they desired. To be heard.
We absolutely need to decarbonize our economy but there's a right way to do it where everyone is heard and involved. Ramming things through by fiat over the objection of the hosts never ends well, even if you believe you know best. This is how you get more Trump, Ford, Scheer, Brexit, etc...
I'm not interested in getting into a political flame war over some windmills, but I think it's a bit of a gross oversimplification to say that the people gained nothing from them.
There were extensive public consultations. You can view the outcome from that here:
This was done to finally shut of the coal plants (a good thing in my mind) but the GTA consumes a lot of electricity and it had to come from somewhere. So in a classic case of externalizing their problem they voted to make it someone else's problem. The sitting government took away local planning and oversight, created setback guidelines based strictly on what the industry wanted and practically all of the "consultations" were held in the gta far away from the people actually affected by them.
Host communities didn't gain anything other than many folks having dried-up or polluted wells from the footings driven into the ground, seeing roads destroyed by heavy truck traffic with no compensations to the municipality, and none of the promised green jobs materialized. They lost scenic views (some like windmills, some don't), property values, a general sense of knowing that they, and their opinions matter. Losing that last one is the most dangerous to a functioning society.
I'm still puzzled that you assume I have chosen a side in this. There' no war here since you are clearly unable to see both sides of the issue and further discussion is pointless.
I linked the document providing the large numbers of public consultations and their results. You made a lot of pretty inflammatory assertions as well, but I've never heard of these things from anywhere else.
Keeping in mind my home county is full of windmills on all sides. Not once have I heard of wells drying up or being polluted even from their harsher critics. And in this county nobody was "forced" to house a windmill. Farmers who opted to house one are well compensated to boot.
There are environmental studies done and accountability with regular updates to a number of institutions including Environment Canada expressly to prevent such problems. You can see how I am hesitant to believe hearsay in opposition to the results of studies by these kinds of organizations.
I wonder how well this translates to the readability of white text in dark background to dark text in a light background that we see in text editors. Which one is better for the eyes?
Legibility of text on a reflective surface (i.e.: license plate) and the eye strain caused by staring at a light emitting screen don't necessarily relate. You can still have a sufficient contrast ratio between the background and text colors in your text editor, using a dark theme, while reducing eye strain, while still keeping things legible.
The Greater Toronto Area is very progressive, but once you travel out of that area, it very much resembles the US' flyover states - in appearance and politics. Ford spends all of his time campaigning in dinky little towns that hate Toronto.
They should have a say, but right now they're being leveraged for political gains (like the flyover states!). None of these people voted for gas pump stickers, blue license plates, and education funding cuts. Yet they were leveraged to vote for the party that provided these instead of one that was working to provide lower utility and daycare costs.
European license plates may be squished but they're also much wider which require cars to have different bumpers/hatches/tailgates. Other countries on other continents (not just Europe) use plates similar in size to North American plates.
As for different designs per state/province, it's all about identity and how the states identify as. The size is pretty much standard though.
Honestly it was less about Ford. Some people were frothing at the mouth over Wynne for some reason.
And the rural parts of the province usually just keep the same MPP in office. Where I grew up I think the MPP has been rep for almost if not 30 years. "Good ol' Tobe" rides his tractor every year in the Canada Day parade though he hasn't farmed in even longer.
What I find worse is how these local MPP's have bought 100% into "FORD NATION". This particular MPP got himself in some trouble when he astonishingly used the anniversary of D-Day to make some kind of political point about putting beer in corner stores.
Rob Ford was the king of retail politics. People in his ward loved him because if you called about a pothole he would be there personally with a work crew the next morning. He became mayor due to the amalgamated Toronto. A previous conservative government combined many outlying cities into Toronto proper, completely changing the makeup of the city. Rob was elected by the suburbs surrounding the old city thanks to promises to keep taxes down and find efficiencies. The core of old Toronto voted overwhelmingly against him.
Doug was elected because a tree stump could have beaten the Liberals in the 2018 election. Liberals had been in power for far too long and the province really did need a change. Internal politics and infighting within the PC caucus allowed Doug to extremly narrowly wrest control of leadership. No matter the PC leader was they were going to win the provincial election between a liberal government that did need to go and first past the post voting.
> Because they are harmless fun? Many hours of road trips were spent trying to spot a license plate from every state.
In Europe that's possible too. Aside from collecting all the countries, you can collect the cities. For instance, plates in Berlin are of the form "B-AB 124" but plates in Hamburg are of the form "HH-AB 124". Presumably you can't really collect them all - there's too many cities - but you can try to work out what they all are.
Actually I kinda think the European ones seem quite squished. They're certainly wider, but the letters are smaller to fit the shorter vertical height. A matter of what you're used to? (Incidentally, in Australia, you can get three kinds of local plate shapes, as well as German-style, Japanese-style and American-style plates. I guess shape and size aren't really that important as long as they're legible and all those plate dimensions have been deemed legible.)
They're allowed to act as regional advertisements since it's the regional government that creates them. Why would they ban themselves? Why do German number plates have symbols of Europe, Germany, the state and the city that issues them? French and Italian plates are similar. There's definitely an unsubtle nationalism in European plates, it's just not as loud and in-your-face as the American ones. More like: "We in europe are important. Become accustomed to our authority. We in germany are important. Become accustomed to our authority." etc.
I think the only real issue is why they're so bloody hard to read. I see nothing wrong with a black-on-white plate that says "How great's Ontario!" but why so much color? It seems that the decentralisation of law enforcement in North America probably has something to answer for here - they can't adequately veto stupid plate designs.
I guess it’s just my eyeballs, I feel like I can read European plates from further away. Just a subjective perspective.
They’re very high contrast black on white with nice, proportional, thick letters, while the North American plates throw pictures and slogans everywhere.
> Why license plates are allowed to act as regional advertisements for local states
States are "allowed" to do it because they are the ones who regulate the use of motor vehicles. The federal government of the US has virtually no rules regarding the use of motor vehicles.
Some states have even issued plates in different shapes and sizes than the typical NA plate you're thinking of, like Delaware, which made some famous 9.5"x5.5" plates.
"A Place to Grow" drew ire because it comes from a weird "provincialist" 60's anthem commissioned by the same Progressive Conservative government. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU1wUfqhsM8
It's continually amazing to me how far they will go to politicize something.
And now the old plates are "the Liberal's fault". They were also introduced by the PCs some time back. Cue eyeroll.
That said, I'll take "A Place to Grow" over "Open for Business" as we once feared.
All this to do some political posturing but we can't afford to let studies and trials keep running that were already under way. If I let my eyes keep rolling this hard I might lose my balance.
Worst thing is that new commercial plates do have "Open for Business" on them. Fun fact, a lot of those black license plates on pickup trucks are commercial-style plates, meaning all the redneck truck-driving coal-rolling Conservative base will be cruising around with "Open for Business" on their trucks once the new plate designs come into effect.
To clarify, UseStrict means black letters on a white background. The normal ones are blue letters on a white background (with the slogan "Yours to Discover" on both).
>In an emailed statement, Ontario's government says it "consulted with key stakeholders to test the readability, reflectivity and functionality of the new high definition plate design. Ontario's new high definition licence plates were tested using advanced plate reader technology under multiple visibility conditions, and plates were successfully read under those conditions."
>But it acknowledged that "some Ontarians are reporting concerns with readability to the naked-eye under certain light conditions," and says it is looking into the issue.
---
In the aftermath Ontario brags about how they tested it with stakeholders and super advance ai enhanced plate readers... They don't admit there is a problem, just that some people report there is a problem.
This is what happens when you put too much faith in the fact you tested.
The "older" scanners that the police have should have been tested, visibility of people with multiple color sight profiles (think: the dress) and eye sight distance (ie: other then 20/20) should have been tested.
Not to mention that I can almost guarantee there is some scientific research into visibility and colors that would have predicted this just based off of color palette alone.
> Not to mention that I can almost guarantee there is some scientific research into visibility and colors that would have predicted this just based off of color palette alone.
Well, blue is the harder color for the human eye to see; night makes it worse.
Why do (standard) plates have to be fancy? If you want to sell fancy plates for more money, and people are okay with that, then do it, but make the standard ones cheap, boring and easy to read.
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 204 ms ] threadReporting of impaired or unsafe driving is something worth preserving, making that require technology severely limits the pool of citizens able to do that, and I don't see any other way to preserve it.
Now for GA aircraft the call sign used is usually their registration no. (not sure it's mandatory for them, but that's what's used). For commercial, it's related to their flight number.
Identifying license plates on the vehicle should be more permanent. Similar to the VIN. Otherwise if they can be changed so easily they're kind of pointless. They operate on good faith.
I've heard they're also really hard to type into pay-by-plate parking meters and the like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
What part of the car identifies the car in the days of diy repair and replacement of almost any part on the car?
Also an ex-firefighter called in too and said that the flat plates (old ones had the characters imprinted) would make it more difficult to identify the remains of fiery vehicle crashes.
...typo? or...?
Your be surprised how often cars have the wrong/stolen/fake license plates.
Also, and this is anecdotal, I'm from a small town that votes overwhelmingly conservative, and a common talking point I hear is "why should we pay into the cpp? It won't be there when we retire" even though the fund is in no danger of going away anytime soon.
It would be nice if some of the US states without tolls could do this on purpose, because many of the ones with them use them primarily to extract revenue from out of state drivers disproportionate to the cost of their use of the roads.
This would also improve the privacy of their citizens, since it would presumably also interfere with ALPR in general and keep their vehicles' location history from ending up in adversarial third party databases.
Anti-ALPR license plates are a feature, not a bug.
The point is to allow a human to identify the car, not a network of cameras connected to a computer database. The ideal would be a plate that could be read by humans but not cameras, but failing that, a plate that can't be read by either is preferable to one that can be read by both. That still serves a purpose in satisfying legacy regulatory requirements to have a number plate even if it's now vestigial and no longer serves any non-bureaucratic purpose.
The case for number plates has really eroded over time. Originally they couldn't be used for tracking because the logistics for that didn't exist, so that cost wasn't there and now it is. At the same time, their original value was always rather modest. The strongest case is for serious crimes like a hit and run, but even in those cases you need someone to get the plate number which they commonly fail to do, and in the most serious cases it's even less likely because a victim who dies can't remember the plate. So we're talking about it helping in a minority of a minority cases to begin with.
Meanwhile in modern times it's more likely that the perpetrator will be caught on video (especially when every bystander has a camera phone), and then you have their face in combination with the make, model and color of the vehicle, which is enough to have a non-trivial chance of getting caught and preserve the deterrent even without the number plate.
So on the one hand they now have a huge privacy cost that wasn't there before, on the other hand the value was never that high to begin with and it's even lower today than it was originally. So maybe we should just get rid of them.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-licence-plate...
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenbelt_(Golden_Horseshoe)
But AFAICT, the golden horseshoe greenbelt has neither of these problems: it's very large, and on the far side of most GTA bedroom communities.
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/greenbelt/pages/383/at...
The last time the province's water needs weren't properly cared-for resulted in what's known as the Walkerton Tragedy.
https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/walkerton-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkerton_E._coli_outbreak
The watersheds are essential for filtering water that hits Ontarian cities.
Walkerton was the result of negligence and disregard for the environment and people's safety.
We could easily run into a similar situation if faced with similar wanton disregard for the functions of the watersheds by deregulating the greenbelt and selling the land off to private suburban development companies whose sole priority is extracting as much profit as possible from initial sales. (Opening that land up to private developers was Ford's stated intention and he only backed down after he drew a lot of public outrage at the notion).
Anyone claiming that the blue plates are perfectly readable has either never seen them in action or is downright lying.
Incredible that vehicle plates are a political issue but there you have it. Nothing is too low in Ontario politics anymore.
Really, all you can see is a dark, smoked, grey rectangle where the plate is. I'm amazed this is legal.
It's not legal. Your plates have to be legible. But much like many other portions of the Traffic Act, it's unenforced, so it's not really a "law" per se, more like a suggestion.
Really, the joke goes that if you want to kill someone in Ontario then do it while driving your car. It's even better if your victim is on a bike. Then you get a 500$ fine and back at the wheel. "Woops, didn't see them" is a valid defense, no matter the circumstances.
https://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/cyclist-dies-after-being-hit-fr...
A year later, all charges dropped on account of an apparently burned out streetlamp. The lawyer called it "happenchance":
https://www.therecord.com/news-story/8354441-charges-dropped...
Number plates, further violations No other numbers to be exposed 13 (1) No number other than that upon the number plate furnished by the Ministry shall be exposed on any part of a motor vehicle or trailer in such a position or manner as to confuse the identity of the number plate. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 13 (1).
Number plate to be kept clean (2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).
Obstruction prohibited (3) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using an automated speed enforcement system. 2017, c. 9, s. 3.
Same (3.0.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being accurately photographed using a red light camera system. 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (1).
Same (3.1) The number plates shall not be obstructed by any device or material that prevents the entire number plates including the numbers from being identified by an electronic toll system. 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (1).
Offence (4) Every person who contravenes subsection (2), (3), (3.0.1) or (3.1) is guilty of an offence. 1993, c. 31, s. 2 (5); 1996, c. 1, Sched. E, s. 2 (2); 1998, c. 38, s. 2 (2).
By "remove it", I mean "smash the plastic face" since there were no tools handy.
Both are just as corny as they are useless in a license plate. Why put in novelty stuff? License plates are for identification, and should serve solely that function.
Twitter is a goldmine for making issues seem more controversial than they really are. Just search Twitter for the topic of your article and you'll always find at least one dissenting voice.
As a New York resident I noticed when the plates changed in 2010 I personally found them harder to read [0]. The white background with dark letters/numbers used from 2001-2010 seemed like the better option... I wonder what law enforcement thought of the change. Seems they are about to change again to something with better contrast starting April 2020 [1].
Also an interesting side note I've noticed that a lot of the new license plates are peeling causing them to look entirely metallic. I see NY dropped their contract with 3M likely due to this issue [2].
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of...
[1] - https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/politics/alb...
[2] - https://www.syracuse.com/news/2019/08/new-york-ends-contract...
As for peeling paint, that's a problem that West Virginia has in the early 90's, too. The urban legend was that it was caused by the prisoners who made the plates peeing in the paint.
All NY license plates are made in the Auburn Correctional Facility. Had they been made in multiple locations it would be interesting to see if all of the problems were stemming from a single source or if it is an issue with materials. That is an interesting urban legend.
then comes the fun in my state where EV plates come with a penalty, even higher fees on top of what I pay for yearly renewals hence I keep my Veterans plate.
https://mobile.twitter.com/placardabuse/status/1229933601464...
https://mobile.twitter.com/placardabuse/status/1229276273106...
At least the plate belongs to the owner and not the car. I plan to keep my two sets of (now old) plates as long as possible.
MPP Lisa Thompson defends new Ontario licence plates. Video clip from Question Period, she calls previous license plates "Liberal plates".
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/f5xbtt/mpp_lisa_th...
I thought Canadians were better than this. Don't believe what your own eyes are telling you. Orwell turning over in his grave.
Politics is no exception. The world watches us, and they take what works. None of it is ever really novel, but a lot of it lies fallow until somebody says, "Hey, we should try that again." And at first people may say, "You can't do that, because mumble mumble," but the reply is "I can't hear you over the sound of you losing."
Trolling your opponents is hardly new, but we've polished it off and discovered that it's a great way to bond a political party. They feel enthusiastic, and they go out and vote for more of it, while demoralizing your opponents -- who go out and try to make sense even harder, and fail worse, because it's the reason they lose in the first place. They remain baffled that people fall for cheap tricks, without ever accepting the reality that they do.
As a Canadian, I can assure you we're more than capable of coming up with that behavior ourselves.
The start of political office Trump, when the actual machinery was put into motion as an organization, was 2016. They would have been crazy to not be using the Ford brothers as a useful model.
"Thompson added that the technology on the new plates has already been adopted by provinces like Saskatchewan and Manitoba and can be read by Highway 407’s automated toll cameras."
If this assertion is true, bulk surveillance is not impaired; only the ability of individual humans to identify the vehicle.
So what indeed. It really doesn't matter. But, there is at least a modicum of truth in the statement.
Additionally, the previous blue on white design was really on the NDP. The Conservatives' only contribution to the design was accommodating the seventh character when valid six character combinations ran out.
[0] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investiga...
Edit: Since this is drawing some ire I thought I would clarify that this is no remark on either politician in itself. They are Doug Ford's words.
The interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BROa5f9Dnrw
And more recently: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-doug-ford-cri...
1. Doug Ford says his support for Trump is "unwavering": https://toronto.citynews.ca/video/2016/10/13/video-doug-ford...
2. Meet Doug Ford, the Canadian conservative candidate being compared to President Trump: https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/apr/30/meet-dou...
3. Canada's Trump moment? Doug Ford rises in conservative party: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/30/doug-ford-onta...
4. Every single similarity between Doug Ford and Donald Trump: https://north99.org/2018/06/05/every-single-similarity-betwe...
You should come to Catalonia...
I will take 200 sticker campaigns over what the Canadian Federal Liberals are doing with their "journalism initiative". That initiative is $600 million being given openly to news agencies who agree with the Canadian Liberals or are approved by a body composed largely of Liberal and Liberal-friendly decision makers. This is a solid step towards the rise of populism in Canada as it legitimizes every single claim of media bias and calls of "fake news".
By comparison, stickers are just a waste of money, but they don't threaten the very core of the country.
He drew the new "Ontario Line" subway with a marker, replacing decades of planning for the Relief Line Toronto needs desperately. The subway is dangerously overcrowded at peak times and these changes will likely set the opening date back years.
He ordered gas stations to display a sticker showing the cost of the federal carbon tax simply because he doesn't like it with no planning. That was after scrapping the existing cap and trade program with a single pen stroke (costing the province hundreds of millions in broken contracts). Leaving the existing program alone would have meant no federal carbon tax.
He invented an environmental issues with bats to halt construction on a partially complete windfarm. Even local bat experts have no idea what he's talking about.
He passed a law saying public servants can't get a raise more than 1% prior to negotiating with the various teacher unions so he could negotiate in bad faith. After claiming there was no money for teachers he started paying parents a per diem for childcare during the rotating strikes.
During an active election he changed the number of councillors in Toronto city hall and threatened to use the notwithstanding clause to enforce it.
Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. All of these policies were announced with no public discussion, input period, or time to contact MPPs. Simply dreamt up by Dougie on the weekend and implemented Monday morning.
Premiers of provinces have a ton of power and not much beyond parliamentary norms hold them in check. Doug has exploited this to an extreme extent.
Worse! They actively started tearing down completed windmills as part of that project to the tune of $100 million!
We absolutely need to decarbonize our economy but there's a right way to do it where everyone is heard and involved. Ramming things through by fiat over the objection of the hosts never ends well, even if you believe you know best. This is how you get more Trump, Ford, Scheer, Brexit, etc...
Blows my mind that people never learn this.
There were extensive public consultations. You can view the outcome from that here:
https://whitepineswindfarm.webs.com/20120901%20WPWF%20(1-41-...
Some of the "sidelined" concerns were pseudo-scientific complaints about health effects but those were still addressed with sincerity.
Nothing was "rammed" through, and suggesting such a project was is pretty dishonest.
Host communities didn't gain anything other than many folks having dried-up or polluted wells from the footings driven into the ground, seeing roads destroyed by heavy truck traffic with no compensations to the municipality, and none of the promised green jobs materialized. They lost scenic views (some like windmills, some don't), property values, a general sense of knowing that they, and their opinions matter. Losing that last one is the most dangerous to a functioning society.
I'm still puzzled that you assume I have chosen a side in this. There' no war here since you are clearly unable to see both sides of the issue and further discussion is pointless.
I linked the document providing the large numbers of public consultations and their results. You made a lot of pretty inflammatory assertions as well, but I've never heard of these things from anywhere else.
Keeping in mind my home county is full of windmills on all sides. Not once have I heard of wells drying up or being polluted even from their harsher critics. And in this county nobody was "forced" to house a windmill. Farmers who opted to house one are well compensated to boot.
There are environmental studies done and accountability with regular updates to a number of institutions including Environment Canada expressly to prevent such problems. You can see how I am hesitant to believe hearsay in opposition to the results of studies by these kinds of organizations.
- Why North America doesn’t adopt European-style plates instead of the tiny, squished ones they have
- Why license plates are allowed to act as regional advertisements for local states and provinces rather than identifiers
- Why Canadians keep the Ford family in power
The Greater Toronto Area is very progressive, but once you travel out of that area, it very much resembles the US' flyover states - in appearance and politics. Ford spends all of his time campaigning in dinky little towns that hate Toronto.
As for different designs per state/province, it's all about identity and how the states identify as. The size is pretty much standard though.
And the city of Toronto collectively facepalmed.
Honestly it was less about Ford. Some people were frothing at the mouth over Wynne for some reason.
And the rural parts of the province usually just keep the same MPP in office. Where I grew up I think the MPP has been rep for almost if not 30 years. "Good ol' Tobe" rides his tractor every year in the Canada Day parade though he hasn't farmed in even longer.
What I find worse is how these local MPP's have bought 100% into "FORD NATION". This particular MPP got himself in some trouble when he astonishingly used the anniversary of D-Day to make some kind of political point about putting beer in corner stores.
Common Rural-vs-Urban divide that you see in the US, and plenty of other countries.
"Something something value of their vote is 4x as much something", etc.
The rest of Canada is not keeping the Fords in power.
Rob Ford was the king of retail politics. People in his ward loved him because if you called about a pothole he would be there personally with a work crew the next morning. He became mayor due to the amalgamated Toronto. A previous conservative government combined many outlying cities into Toronto proper, completely changing the makeup of the city. Rob was elected by the suburbs surrounding the old city thanks to promises to keep taxes down and find efficiencies. The core of old Toronto voted overwhelmingly against him.
Doug was elected because a tree stump could have beaten the Liberals in the 2018 election. Liberals had been in power for far too long and the province really did need a change. Internal politics and infighting within the PC caucus allowed Doug to extremly narrowly wrest control of leadership. No matter the PC leader was they were going to win the provincial election between a liberal government that did need to go and first past the post voting.
Because they are harmless fun? Many hours of road trips were spent trying to spot a license plate from every state.
And quite frankly, I love that each region has its own plate design. It adds a bit of spice to life.
In Europe that's possible too. Aside from collecting all the countries, you can collect the cities. For instance, plates in Berlin are of the form "B-AB 124" but plates in Hamburg are of the form "HH-AB 124". Presumably you can't really collect them all - there's too many cities - but you can try to work out what they all are.
They're allowed to act as regional advertisements since it's the regional government that creates them. Why would they ban themselves? Why do German number plates have symbols of Europe, Germany, the state and the city that issues them? French and Italian plates are similar. There's definitely an unsubtle nationalism in European plates, it's just not as loud and in-your-face as the American ones. More like: "We in europe are important. Become accustomed to our authority. We in germany are important. Become accustomed to our authority." etc.
I think the only real issue is why they're so bloody hard to read. I see nothing wrong with a black-on-white plate that says "How great's Ontario!" but why so much color? It seems that the decentralisation of law enforcement in North America probably has something to answer for here - they can't adequately veto stupid plate designs.
They’re very high contrast black on white with nice, proportional, thick letters, while the North American plates throw pictures and slogans everywhere.
States are "allowed" to do it because they are the ones who regulate the use of motor vehicles. The federal government of the US has virtually no rules regarding the use of motor vehicles.
Some states have even issued plates in different shapes and sizes than the typical NA plate you're thinking of, like Delaware, which made some famous 9.5"x5.5" plates.
And now the old plates are "the Liberal's fault". They were also introduced by the PCs some time back. Cue eyeroll.
That said, I'll take "A Place to Grow" over "Open for Business" as we once feared.
All this to do some political posturing but we can't afford to let studies and trials keep running that were already under way. If I let my eyes keep rolling this hard I might lose my balance.
>But it acknowledged that "some Ontarians are reporting concerns with readability to the naked-eye under certain light conditions," and says it is looking into the issue.
---
In the aftermath Ontario brags about how they tested it with stakeholders and super advance ai enhanced plate readers... They don't admit there is a problem, just that some people report there is a problem.
This is what happens when you put too much faith in the fact you tested.
The "older" scanners that the police have should have been tested, visibility of people with multiple color sight profiles (think: the dress) and eye sight distance (ie: other then 20/20) should have been tested.
Not to mention that I can almost guarantee there is some scientific research into visibility and colors that would have predicted this just based off of color palette alone.
Well, blue is the harder color for the human eye to see; night makes it worse.