Ask HN: What's your latest failed side project and why?

196 points by NoOneNew ↗ HN
With the recent posts on successful/profitable side projects, I figure it'd be good to learn about some failed ones. Let's stick to "launched" projects instead of those that never happened.

What was the project and why did it fail (best to your knowledge)? Or what's a side-project of yours that's actively losing money?

229 comments

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It was the opening of a flower shop. My business didn't make a profit.
Kudos for trying, having taken advantage of these recently it can really help people cope with loss. Finding one you trust is huge as they vary widely in care and competency.

On the business side, the supply chain seems like a nightmare. Any specific lessons learned?

Goods that quickly deteriorate hard to deal with
Flowers are difficult to contain small business. That's if it's a greenhouse.
We launched a 1:1 tool for sales managers that used predictive analytics to suggest which deals needed to be discussed (ie Deal X looks like it's stuck). The reason being, when I was a sales manager, I found people would naturally talk about positive stuff rather than easily giving the whole picture.

It failed because quite simply, when we tried to get other sales managers to use it for free (hoping it'd be popular), we found they wouldn't make the time to spend 2 mins planning a 1:1, probably as they're managed on 'selling deals, right now' in many cases, which is a bit sad!

Learning: I should have read the Mom Test.

With hindsight, I wish I'd built it for engineers based on Pull Requests (PR #181 had a ton of back and forth / NLP shows it got heated). It would have been fun if nothing else!

This would work for customer service ticket systems as well. Having been in that role, i definitely buried a few issues over the years that would have been better dealt with in the open.
Thats an interesting idea. Have you tried talking with Directors/Executive/VPs?

My thinking is to target sales orgs that are going through restructuring or are focusing on major improvements/goals. Execs would push their managers to setup 1:1s for development in the company and career

If you start a side project with the goal to make money then you are making an error of definition. A side project should have the goal of teaching you something or being useful in some other way. If it doesn't then it has failed. If it makes money that's gravy but it should definitely not be the first factor in deciding whether or not it has failed.
FWIW success for my latest failed side project wasn't making money, it was having people use the tool/find it useful. It's free, no ads, etc... But I missed the mark on market fit.
The goal of a side project can be whatever a person wants it to be. Make money. Learn something. Improve people's lives. Creative outlet. Your definition limits people's ambitions.
Agreed. I started a side project SaaS with the goal of being the top product in it's niche and making enough money that I could live on it passively (if needed) and I accomplished that. I do think you should be highly interested in the subject, so not doing only for the money. And also don't underestimate the value of recruiting subject matter experts to help you.

But when I look at side projects for myself, I look at who's making money already in a subject I care about and if I can do it better.

In the things I failed at in the past, I was chasing new things that I wasn't particularly interested in or didn't get the subject matter expertise required to succeed - one had an ad supported business model which just ended up causing me to try creating 2 businesses effectively at once instead of 1. Many people underestimate those things and I did that early on and failed.

As I've gotten older I mostly look at things where I can compete and just outperform versus trying to do something novel. A lot of people come to me w ideas and get discouraged when they find out that competition already exists for their idea.

Very hard to do something entirely new and succeed financially.

A crowdfunding site for product feature requests.

Stripe closed my account before I was able to launch as it was "unable to accept payments for crowdfunding"..... Their marketing doesn't match their policies.

This is a really cool idea.

You could add a tag to feature request issues that it'd read from, maybe as a github app or something. I run an OS repo and it'd be really cool to be able to get through them all faster with a bit of money to pay a freelancer, for example. I imagine the users-paying side would be very hard to find though.

I'd also love to be able to attach a bounty to PRs with this money, although quality control would make me worry it'd be hard.

I imagine Patreon is never an enormous sum for people because the money is goodwill - it isn't tied to receiving anything back. You could make it like this.

I'm surprised there wasn't some other way of doing this - clearly other crowd funding sites exists, what do they use?

> Stripe closed my account before I was able to launch as it was "unable to accept payments for crowdfunding"..... Their marketing doesn't match their policies.

Wow. I understand it's their right to do this, but that's total horseshit IMO. I guess maybe crowdfunding is subject to too many refunds, but IDK.

Stripe supports crowdfunding sites. I’d be happy to take a second look if you email me at edwin@stripe.com.
Awesome, email sent!
https://www.thechillypony.com

An email alert for horse owners/barn managers when the forecast will be colder than a configured threshold temperature. It's saved us a lot of mental energy this winter (having to check not just the forecast but also making sure to check the temp at 3 AM with windchill factored in, etc...). Got zero interest from various equestrian forums. shrug.

I taught myself Spring Boot through so that's a win!

Damn, knowing some horse owners, I don't see why they wouldn't like the extra reminder. Sure, you should always know yourself. But a little backup wouldn't hurt.

Are you still pushing it? I don't think you should give up on that as just a magnet idea, at the very least. Maybe try fleshing out an extra feature/service?

Out of curiosity, how are you handling the emails? In house or 3rd party service?

I'm going to leave it up, and ideally add to it/improve it, but I'm not actively pushing it because I haven't figured out how to do so effectively... I'm currently using SES to send the outbound notifications.
forums are a tricky one. It needs multiple accounts to shill for you and praise you. I've got BHW and a few other forums wrapped around my little finger.
Contributing to the destruction of online trust is a pretty uncool method of growth hacking.
I'm hoping they're talking about multiple legitimate account, held by people that legitimately and individually support what you do.

If not, shame

I would generally agree but it's what BHW deserve
that's some innovative and technologically monumental work, you must be good at what you do.
I'm in the early planning stages of doing something somewhat similar for motorcycle riders (which I am one), you feed it your commute route, typical times and it then sends you a summary of the next days commute (or ride) including interpreting the forecast in the context of a motorcycle (i.e. gust delta against base wind speed, temps below 0 in the preceeding 12hrs, estimated windchill at 40mph, 50mph, 60mph and suggested clothing - plus the ability to set alerts for particulary directions of wind etc).

I've zero interest in commercialising it, I'm building it to play with some technologies I want to learn and because it beats anything I've got currently which is mostly just remembering to check the temperature/wind direction for the next day.

My wife and I took a road trip to Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming, USA for our honeymoon in 2002. We were passing through a storm along I90 in South Dakota when we later realized we drove between 2 tornados.

Since then I've wished that Google Maps would add a road trip weather option given that it predicts roughly where you'll be and when for possibly the next 10 hours in a drive.

Yep, I've looked for the country I'm in (UK) and no one seems to be doing it, which is weird since in the UK our weather data from our national meteorological provides it's main forecast data under an open license (5000 points, to 3hr accuracy for 5 days) https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/services/data/datapoint/datapoi...

Between that data and open street maps I have most of the raw data I need, the rest is a halfway usable interface, aggregating and interpolating the data and figuring out a nice way to present the results to be easily grokkable.

That sounds awesome! I am also a motorcycle rider. FWIW Darksky API and data is great!
I'd suggest making it a little more generic and targeting the agriculture space. Have templates for animal alerts etc but also days without rain when plants need to be watered, etc. You might get more usage from busy people trying to have a backyard garden than more professional farmers that have already solved this problem.

And email doesn't cut it as an alert mechanism. You'd need to support both SMS and have native apps to support iOS/Android notifications.

> And email doesn't cut it as an alert mechanism

I wouldn't invest any time in any other alert medium before verifying this. I doubt it brings anything to the value proposition of the product (but I don't know either, so that would need to be verified)

And you can SMS over email as well
Maybe add SMS option for paid/premium accounts?
I launched, and have now shut down oppsdaily.com. https://oppslist.com is still up as a zombie.

We asked people about problems or inefficiencies in their industry that could be solved by Saas products and then sent those ideas out as a daily newsletter. I learned a lot, but had difficulty making money with it. Also, I'm not totally sure my heart was in it. I think about it a lot.

I've recently launched a new project - https://topstonks.com where I'm exploring this new speculative culture of investing emanating from places like reddit's Wallstreetbets, and 4chan's Biz.

We currently look at the most mentioned equities and send out a list of those. Once or twice a week we'll post an analysis with some comments from those communities (heads up, if you're easily offended, the language can be a bit crude.)

There are bigger plans on the roadmap, but we're just starting w/ the newsletter for now.

Those are actual, real world requests in the oppslist?
They are responses to surveys. Not users who signed in to post the idea. But yeah, they are real people.
how did you survey people? if you dont mind me asking
Hey! I started with Mechanical turk, and then did fair amount of cold emailing.
I was a subscriber for a while. Fun idea!
Looking at the oppslist - I think the larger issue is that lots of people are unaware of software that already exist. The top request for example has been solved multiple times since 60's already. It's basic inventory management.
Yeah. Looking through the list at least half have SaaS solutions you can purchase off the shelf. The rest you can mostly cobble something together or they just aren't practical.

The Mom Test has a great rule of thumb when doing customer development and that's to ask "last time you needed to do X, what did you do?"

For the inventory management stuff the answer would probably be "I checked my usual spreadsheet and made the orders".

And thats likely what the person will continue to do forever. If they wanted to solve the problem they would have found the software by now most likely.

thats a marketing puzzle too
I subscribed for a while. I noticed the problems were mostly solved by things that existed already, or were ideas I didn't see much potential in. It was worth exploring though.
With regards to oppslist, I think many people don't realize they have a problem. They might copy and paste data from one list to another, never realizing that the daily 1 hour job can be done with a script within seconds and with less errors. It might take someone to watch them during the work day or maybe you need to be working in the industry already and do a self-analysis.
(marketing guy here) - Topstonks is a wonderful idea. Like Bloomberg columnist Matt Levine and Janelle Shane's AI Weirdness blog had a baby.

I don't have a clue whether you can monetize it, though.

https://coddle.app/

Coddle is a service that checks if your sites are online, how fast they load, and lets you know if something is wrong. As a bonus, it takes screen shots of your sites with a selection of device options.

It didn't pick up the traction I was expecting, guess this is not really something people need.

I learned a lot making it though and will use it for my own sites, so not a complete loss.

> It didn't pick up the traction I was expecting, guess this is not really something people need.

Or maybe they just use https://pingdom.com

Sounds like you didn't clear the "why this over NewRelic?" threshold.
Here's my (uninvited) observations:

You seem to have a strong focus on persona's: makers, bloggers, designers, agencies. But have you actually checked if these specific target groups need a service like yours? And if they are willing to pay for it?

The vast majority of makers, bloggers and designers, arguably will use cloud services or platforms to get their content out. Those who do host their own website, probably are either tech savvy, or rely on a third party to take care of the operational side. Agencies either go with dedicated hosting parties who include monitoring services in their SLA's already.

There's also this weird spread between individuals - bloggers, makers, designers - and agencies, which is a totally different market.

You are competing with others who offer the same service either as a part of their offering or as a separate offering but better and far more focussed. Like these guys:

https://ohdear.app/

For instance, you offer basic monitoring, but you also add this concept of "snapshots" and it's entirely unclear how that tacks onto monitoring. Moreover, you're vaguely stating "Coddle will help you check that your work looks tight on various different devices." and "You can choose to take snapshots with a variety of different device options too. Perhaps you could use some of these in your marketing and designs too?" So, what are you offering here to prospective clients?

The other guys simply solve one single question through 6 distinct parameters: Is my site still up? Yes or no? That's it. It's crystal clear what they do.

They focus on the quality of their service. Do one thing, but execute it to a T. For instance, by offering all kinds of API integrations for their uptime monitoring service with push notifications.

Then there's the pricing. It's unclear if those prices are per month, week or year. Also, how does the "checks frequencey" make any difference to the customer? And what does "check logs" mean? What are you actually selling here?

Moreover, the other guys offer their service - 50 sites - for 25% cheaper then yours. Plus, their pricing contains far more tiers to cater to different segments of the market.

Notice also how they don't differentiate their users. It doesn't matter who you are. The only differentiator they have: do you have this problem? Yes / No. If yes, then this is what we offer without thrills.

I don't endorse Oh Dear app. It was the first thing that came to my mind when I clicked on your link. I think you might find it useful to see a comparison on how that might help you in the future.

I think my biggest tip would be to clearly define which problem your solving, make sure you ruthlessly stick to the scope (does it help solve the problem) - no matter how interesting tech like snapshots might be - and you make sure your communication / marketing is unambiguous about the solution you provide.

Awesome answer, thank you very much! I'll consider everything you mentioned and see how I can improve things.
There's a lot of these type of services and there have been since the mid-2000s. It's not that there's no demand, it's that the market is very crowded.

I know of one that closed 10 years ago offering exactly the same services.

https://quickq.app

I'm not willing to spend money on marketing it yet and didn't get any dedicated users after launching on all the usual platforms. Also competitors in the b2b space (stackoverflow for teams and others) have a huge head start.

This is a great idea, but not sure if you can survive the competition.
https://repominder.com sends release reminders for your open source projects. It works by monitoring the diff between your development branch and how you release (eg tags or another branch).

It works well for me and one other power user, but hasn't grown beyond that. My guess is it's just a failure of marketing -- I make lots of these projects that scratch an itch and then just hope people will find them.

At least it's cheap to run ($2/month for the vps plus <$10/year for the domain).

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For my first real coding project I set up a book price comparison website.

It relied heavily on third-party APIs and scrapers for prices, search, book details, currency conversion, and the PaaS hosting service. Over 8 years many of those services slowly shut down until the site didn't work any more.

It was a fun project, both for learning to code, and for better understanding the tradeoffs around third-party dependencies. I wrote more about it here: https://www.ajnisbet.com/blog/maintaining-a-zero-maintenance...

Last year, I built a local/regional tech job listing website, targeted at helping 'older' people (35ish and up, of any gender) looking to find work--experienced or not. $100 listings.

Plenty of traffic. Totally failed. Started MVP by pulling in listings from elsewhere, but couldn't get a single listing.

Why did it fail? I think because:

1. Companies had zero interest in targeting 'older' workers in tech, despite them being the second-largest discrimination group (after women) in technology. I got more than one 'why would we target them?' response.

2. I didn't solicit the right people (or in the right way) for listings

3. Inexperience: I'm not very skilled at marketing, and saw a real need but clumsily approached it

you could say 'get woke go broke' applied.

Why would companies put themselves at a net disadvantage by actively targetting older SE's who are more likely to know their rights and not accept 18 hour days.

Maybe because they want to avoid the chickens coming home to roost from all those submarine age discrimination lawsuits that are out there just waiting to be filed.

Ever notice how U.S. flight attendants tend to be older nowadays, compared to the Cute Young Things you see in old movies (and on many non-U.S. airlines)? The U.S. airlines had to learn a harsh (and expen$ive) lesson there.

Some of them are still learning it... United recently had to pay two flight attendants $800,000 apiece after a jury decided that they'd been fired because of their age rather than the technical infractions United had used for cover.

Edit: if I were the OP, I'd collect a bunch of age discrimination cases where Big Bucks had been awarded to the employees and make those part of my marketing material.

Edit #2: in engineering, specifically, in 2017 Lockheed Martin was ordered to pay $51.5 million to an engineer for age discrimination.

Hey, I might be in a similar boat, building a job listing, still I haven't pushed it out yet. Is there a way to get in touch with you?
I don't know what it's like on your jurisdiction (although I'm still laughing a bit at the notion that I'm an 'older' worker at 30 something), but could part of the problem be that it's technically illegal/regulation risk?

By which I mean, we all know that age discrimination happens, but you're not 'supposed' to do it. By setting up a website that explicitly discriminates based on age, you're exposing the employer to a verifiable action that they're taking to discriminate on age. It doesn't matter that it's an attempt to counter the widely perceived current discrimination.

Imagine if you set up a website for another protected group (sex, religion, pregnant). Most companies would run a mile from that. The whole thing about structural discrimination is the plausible deniability that you're consciously doing it...

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Lease.ly, a common app for apartment rentals.

- In SF (a seller’s market), prospective tenants only wanted to use it if their prospective landlords asked for it, or if it gave them an advantage over other prospective tenants

- Landlords have their existing process that works, and didn’t want to change it. Things like comparison views for tenants, pulling in social media info, and automatic credit reports were helpful, but since for most SF landlords getting new tenants is low frequency (unlike, say, NY), the value was low

For each, the value prop was unclear.

If I were to try it again, I’d try to understand the market better and find the right subset of landlords and tenants, and the right geo, to focus on first.

did you pivot to VIN #s?? I'm interested in seeing what you had/have for lease.ly with regards to the common application.
https://20-things.com - not counting on it to become anything, but as a learning sideproject, I'm glad I spent so much time developing it.
https://get.thread-app.com

It's an ad-free social network that is supposed to be a richer and more private alternative to Facebook.

It's been adopted by my closest friends and family, but hasn't grown much beyond these initial users. The product itself tries to do a ton of stuff: messaging, photo sharing, event planning, location sharing, video sharing, etc. Perhaps that's part of the problem -- it doesn't do one thing particularly above and beyond existing solutions.

I've been running a very shitty threaded message board for years ("running" being a very loose term - I mean it's still there). There is a parallel facebook group that exists solely to tell me when I've f'd up.

The people still on it, are the people who use it as a "separate space" to all the rest of the bazillion dollar alternatives - hellbent on shoving adverts, tracking and all the rest.

I'm only going off on this tangent, as maybe what appears to be lack of traction, could also be (if you squint hard) a benefit. Could you cookie-cutter out instances of your product?

If you can, then maybe you could position it as a micro-ecosystem for events people don't immediately want to integrate into their existing mega-social world.

e.g. Weddings. Could on-board all people invited to the app (click this link to say if you're going or not), let them get to know each other a bit first, share photos they took of the event, plan stag events, enter dietary requirements, link to the wedding list, buy a nice photo from the official photographer, send a message to that bridesmaid you thought you were getting on well with, click on faces in photos to see who they are etc etc.

Have you thought about using an email group instead of running your own thing? I'm asking this because this is kind of what I'm doing — threaded email groups that act as a message board within the emails. There's a few people using us to do similar things as you, and since we only charge for admins (i.e. you) and not the number of mail receivers, it'd be dirt cheap since you'd only need one seat. In any case, definitely cheaper (and zero maintenance) than running a message board.

It's here at https://aether.app/email/#/force. If that turns out to be your thing hit me up and I can extend the trial for you as far as you need to give it a shot.

Seems really cool -- what's the unifying idea? It's gotta become my "go to" for some one thing. What is that one thing? My recommendations are: personal or public Journal; ability to make combination timelines with friends (photos/experiences) to "weave"; build it around location with a more tethered approach to specific zipcodes -- now you can host actual meetups via app; dive into the idea of clubs or groups. If it can become the "go to app" for some one thing, it could take off pretty quickly
Is registration disabled? If not, it seems like there's no way to sign up. Most likely why it's not growing.
Fog Machine https://fog.fm

It's not dead, but on an indefinite freeze. It lets anyone host a server from any device. The goal was to market it to users who want to host their own Minecraft servers, and IoT businesses that need to do on-premise hosting using an internet connection they don't control

https://www.scanfortable.com/

No traction so far most likely because of founder not good at sales.

Blaming it on the founder is harsh... Restaurants actually like having long queues all the way to outside. It shows they have a good reputation.
I’m the said founder so Thanks for your kind words :)
This seems like a solid idea but it seems to me like it needs to be marketed on a per restaurant and it needs to be part of a more comprehensive suite that helps restauranteurs get customers into the restaurant, ultimately.
My situation is the complete opposite.

I have a great idea, did some decks/mockups/simulation's.

Was actually offered 6-figure angel investment (I passed).

Yet haven't been able to make reall progress with an MVP. I am a very experienced developer, but never did any web/saas stuff.

I feel embarrassed.

I have tried joining recently a tracking and discussion forum and it's been really helpful.

Web is its own beast -- even movie making software has to be learned, certainly true of new software domains. I'd recommend researching your tools thoroughly before diving in, and finally when you choose a few candidate tools try and build small prototypes in each that would become modular chunks of your main app. In this way you can evaluate which tools you'd like to use from some low-risk investment of time and effort, and walk away with clear tool commitment. Once you commit to a toolset, you can dive into development as much as your toolset accommodates expression and feedback. I'd recommend using something that has a REPL (Clojure/script with Selmer and even Python with Django have this) which is a way to get immediate feedback from changes in your code. The feedback loop in traditional web development is way too long to make responsive apps in a reasonable amount of time.

Definitely find forums for the tools you are using and ask questions in the beginners channels. No need to be embarrassed, if you've never held a cup it's not a big deal, it just takes time to learn how to hold one. Then time to walk to the river, then time to scoop some water into the cup. But eventually, piece by piece, you'll get a delicious drink that satiates, and you'll know how to fashion a cup even more cleanly for the next time(s) you need a new cup. Aha, at this point one can start seeing code reusability, state management via atomic actions through swaps, and functional approaches as fundamental to achieving incremental progress. Laying the foundation hardly looks like progress, but actual progress is impossible without an excellent foundation.

Let me know if you could use a partner.
People need to learn the difference between something being widely popular and something being good and achieving it's technical goals.

My project vintagesimulator.com did not become popular, but that doesn't mean it failed. It just means I did not put enough time and effort into creating content and promoting it. I achieved the technical goals. Despite a lack of interest I would never call it a failure.

https://rentee.app

It's for renting apartments, houses and rooms. We failed at marketing. You can publish, search by place, monument and whatever you want.

Our idea since the beginning was to learn and be able to deliver something (with some friends). Next steps are to learn more about growing communities and publicity.

Mine failed before I could really launch it. Basically, I wanted to do a financial app to help people get out of debt, but the company I was going to use changed their fee structure just before I launched, causing transaction costs to eat all of my margin.

I may try to relaunch if I can find a good partner, but it just seems the anything related to finance is going to be a huge pain. I'm currently looking at other options.

You could just raise your prices. Look at the value it provides and price it accordingly. Do not price it based on what you personally can tolerate. Different people are willing to pay different prices for a product that works. Start high and work downwards. Find the sweet spot.
Spares Outlet - selling home appliance parts salvaged from used washers/dryers/fridges/ovens. I even developed testing methods that don't require the control board to be on an actual machine. It's the hardest part to test properly, I wanted my buyers to get a fully working item that would last. Returns would've really cut into profits, too.

That and using intrepid Russian hacking/engineering to make most control boards compatible with any model (essentially a firmware reflash, but by God do the manufacturers make it hard).

Really proud of it now, it helped hundreds of people and small businesses while being as environmentally friendly as it gets - all of those broken appliances were headed for landfills in third world countries, and I feel like I actually made a difference.

Failed because of my departure from the UK and losing those suppliers. Looking at finding new ones, so far no one wants to work with me, they either sell refurbished complete units or just send all their scrap to landfills. Easier, I guess.

Not finding a partner or any employees was a huge part, I even automated replies for buyers - based on specific keywords, it would reply stating availability of parts and delivery time. Again, proud of that, but having more people working with me would've been better.

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My two latest failed projects were a SaaS to help landlords manage their properties, including rent payment management, and an analytics tool that consolidated data from real estate property in a excel so people looking to buy or rent could analyse the options in a more effective way than going property by property in the listing site. Both projects failed because I could not attract users in a consistent way. I could not find any paying user during the 2 months that each project stayed online. Nevertheless, it was a good learning experience and it was one of the motivations to derive the project that I am working now (https://turbovar.com/), which is a full-stack Java Web APP template.
Hi, I am in your target for Turbovar, but it's not clear to me why I would chose it (and pay) instead of JHipster
Good question. I am not a specialist in JHpister, but I think that two of the reasons that would drive you to choose TurboVar are: you prefer code over configuration and want more control over the code base; you do not want to learn/use Spring on the server side/back-end;

Feel free to leave any additional question or feedback.

Hey thanks for answering. I'm actually thinking of building something like this if my current project fails, but on different programming languages.

I'd love to bounce some ideas back and forth with you. Could you drop me an e-mail at the e-mail I have listed in my profile, please?

Sure. I am aware of some other products with similar premises that are based in other programming languages. I will drop you an e-mail.