I couldn't tell from any of the articles today if they're going to accept cash or not. Given the push back they received on the first round of convenience stores, it's interesting that it's not mentioned at all.
Does Seattle allow for stores that don't accept cash? I know NYC recently passed something that said you can't run a credit card-only store as it excludes the unbanked.
Or maybe there's a kiosk where you can fund your account with cash? I can imagine a bunch of ways to both accept cash and also have the Go concept. But I don't know, I don't live in Seattle and haven't ever been to a Go store.
Edit: Someone else posted this link[0] elsewhere. The stores are in SF & NYC which both have laws against cashless stores. So, contrary to your reply, the following is actually false:
(Presence of Amazon Go store) ⇒ (City doesn't have a ban on cashless stores)
Forgive me if this is an obvious question as I've only been to the Seattle convenience store twice and haven't heard about any pushback (but I could see it resulting from basically making the store inaccessible to people who can't afford a smartphone?), but how would they logistically accept cash without any cashiers?
Meijer already does this, it is just a normal terminal, that knows your order based on your phone or some other scan, which then accepts cash like every coin return machine. It just dispenses change.
Interesting! Do people using cash have a separate checkout flow / exit than everyone else? It seems like it'd be difficult for human security to differentiate between someone that entered the store with their phone (so they can come and go as they please) versus someone who needs to pay at the end before they can leave.
I'm not sure the traditional self-checkout kiosks logistically fit into this model, though. In a "normal" store, everyone needs to pay somehow, and security (in person or in LP) can monitor/flag/stop people who try to leave without paying.
In Go stores, you authenticate as you enter the store through a turnstile, which ensures that even if you were to bolt for the door you'd still pay for what you have and there's no reason for anyone to stop you (besides potentially for suspicious activity).
However, once you start letting unauthenticated people into the store, that entire system flies out the window and you now need to once again monitor who needs to manually pay and whether they actually have or not as they're leaving. You need to worry about when they pick up a can of soup and put it in their pocket, but not worry about it for most other customers.
On top of that, accepting cash (even to a machine) requires additional hardware installed (which comes with its own challenges like how easy it is to integrate into whatever Amazon's using on their backend for inventory tracking, etc) as well as manpower (to track/refill drawers, handle issues if the machine has problems, etc). I imagine there could also be a potential need for more security in a store that contains registers full of cash and goods versus a store full of just goods. Lots of stores around here (in KC) are cashless specifically for the safety argument.
Just seems like a lot of extra work that Amazon wouldn't intentionally commit to for a store built on automating employees away.
Something I’ve wondered for awhile (unfortunately not before my first trip to an Amazon Go) is what Amazon’s internal limitations are on the use of biometric information collected in the course of an Amazon Go session.
Attempting to comb through Amazon's master privacy policy doesn’t yield anything on biometrics, but as they are a second-order piece of PII, they could simply be derived from “images and videos collected or stored in connection with Amazon Services.” And they wouldn’t have to be sold to an external company to be used within Rekognition.
Amazon really needs to draw a bright line around what they will and won’t do with biometrics. Even this, however, should only be a stopgap to meaningful privacy legislation.
There's more personal/private stuff than biometrics going on here.
Biometrics are WHO you are, including gait, but AI and cameras are able to determine your mental state and responses to stimuli while shopping. It can watch your gaze, which products you look at, which ones you touch and put back.
Eg, what does it tell you if someone picks up a pregnancy test and puts it back?
I was a Go customer for a long time and it just boggled me how they couldn't keep the shelves stocked with some items. I'm not talking about something being sold out for half a day, I mean things not restocked in spans of weeks. I've heard grumblings that Whole Foods is suffering the same fate.
I really don't see how this store has improved any of that.
You have to be fast because there are a number of employees of the store stationed at cash registers very near the exits. The point here is that those employees don't exist here.
Typically grocery stores only have a 1-2% margin, and also have significant shrink and inventory spoilage losses.
Curious to see what the actual operating costs/losses of the system will be -- will people fake AMZN credentials, fill a cart with steak, and walk out?
How will they fake AMZN credentials? It's probably much harder to do that than use something like a stolen credit card to pay with at normal grocery stores.
I think they are banking on 95% of purchases being just normal people trying to get food, and that will offset the margin of loss here, since they pay a lot less employees. Because they will definitely lose more product than a normal grocery store.
Do you have any data/sources to suggest that is true? Amazon has credit card info (and who knows what else) for everyone who is allowed into the store.
What about kids? Are kids with their parents just not going to be let into the store since they don't have credit cards? Or will they be associated with their parents somehow.
What if the credit card info is fake or stolen? Are new accounts with temp emails and stolen cards just not going to be let into the store? I've bought digital goods off amazon with prepaid credit cards that had a few dollars on them, and the purchase only got rescinded hours later.
To be honest, Amazon Go stores are ridiculously overkill.
They have cameras everywhere, and use face recognition, and all kinds of pattern detection algorithms just to determine what yogurt or salad you bought.
All they really need is just an app. Take a picture of your product or barcode, done. They can use the AI to recognize the picture of the product, like your fruits and vegetables. Or just scan the barcode.
Then, just walk out. Once you exit the gate, your Amazon account gets charged. No receipts. No cashiers. No more minimum wage jobs for a high school teenager. Done.
(Unless their goal is to do human pattern recognition, face recognition, movement detection, and gait detection? Which means they’re just using the Go stores as an experimental test bed, to freely capture all that valuable data. You consent to the data capture, just by walking into the store.)
I guess that is an easier system to implement, but that's obviously less ambitious and much less magical.
Why does Amazon do one day shipping? That's also huge overkill for 99% of the stuff they sell. They do it because consumers want it, and will instantly forget about all their disdain for Bezos, who btw seems to be growing in unpopularity by the hour, for a more streamlined and hassle free product. I'm not a huge introvert but my instinct is already to do self checkout. I can keep listening to my music, don't have to do the "alright please insert your card" dance, etc.
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[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 52.2 ms ] threadEdit: Someone else posted this link[0] elsewhere. The stores are in SF & NYC which both have laws against cashless stores. So, contrary to your reply, the following is actually false:
(Presence of Amazon Go store) ⇒ (City doesn't have a ban on cashless stores)
[0]https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-pay-cash-amazon-go-sa...
Taking money out/providing change to the machines could be done on a scheduled basis by employees that just do that.
In Go stores, you authenticate as you enter the store through a turnstile, which ensures that even if you were to bolt for the door you'd still pay for what you have and there's no reason for anyone to stop you (besides potentially for suspicious activity).
However, once you start letting unauthenticated people into the store, that entire system flies out the window and you now need to once again monitor who needs to manually pay and whether they actually have or not as they're leaving. You need to worry about when they pick up a can of soup and put it in their pocket, but not worry about it for most other customers.
On top of that, accepting cash (even to a machine) requires additional hardware installed (which comes with its own challenges like how easy it is to integrate into whatever Amazon's using on their backend for inventory tracking, etc) as well as manpower (to track/refill drawers, handle issues if the machine has problems, etc). I imagine there could also be a potential need for more security in a store that contains registers full of cash and goods versus a store full of just goods. Lots of stores around here (in KC) are cashless specifically for the safety argument.
Just seems like a lot of extra work that Amazon wouldn't intentionally commit to for a store built on automating employees away.
Attempting to comb through Amazon's master privacy policy doesn’t yield anything on biometrics, but as they are a second-order piece of PII, they could simply be derived from “images and videos collected or stored in connection with Amazon Services.” And they wouldn’t have to be sold to an external company to be used within Rekognition.
Amazon really needs to draw a bright line around what they will and won’t do with biometrics. Even this, however, should only be a stopgap to meaningful privacy legislation.
Biometrics are WHO you are, including gait, but AI and cameras are able to determine your mental state and responses to stimuli while shopping. It can watch your gaze, which products you look at, which ones you touch and put back.
Eg, what does it tell you if someone picks up a pregnancy test and puts it back?
I really don't see how this store has improved any of that.
Curious to see what the actual operating costs/losses of the system will be -- will people fake AMZN credentials, fill a cart with steak, and walk out?
I think they are banking on 95% of purchases being just normal people trying to get food, and that will offset the margin of loss here, since they pay a lot less employees. Because they will definitely lose more product than a normal grocery store.
What if the credit card info is fake or stolen? Are new accounts with temp emails and stolen cards just not going to be let into the store? I've bought digital goods off amazon with prepaid credit cards that had a few dollars on them, and the purchase only got rescinded hours later.
They have cameras everywhere, and use face recognition, and all kinds of pattern detection algorithms just to determine what yogurt or salad you bought.
All they really need is just an app. Take a picture of your product or barcode, done. They can use the AI to recognize the picture of the product, like your fruits and vegetables. Or just scan the barcode.
Then, just walk out. Once you exit the gate, your Amazon account gets charged. No receipts. No cashiers. No more minimum wage jobs for a high school teenager. Done.
(Unless their goal is to do human pattern recognition, face recognition, movement detection, and gait detection? Which means they’re just using the Go stores as an experimental test bed, to freely capture all that valuable data. You consent to the data capture, just by walking into the store.)
Why does Amazon do one day shipping? That's also huge overkill for 99% of the stuff they sell. They do it because consumers want it, and will instantly forget about all their disdain for Bezos, who btw seems to be growing in unpopularity by the hour, for a more streamlined and hassle free product. I'm not a huge introvert but my instinct is already to do self checkout. I can keep listening to my music, don't have to do the "alright please insert your card" dance, etc.