The show had recently moved to a new, slightly smaller, venue and due to schedule constraints did not have a chance to fully rehearse one of the swordfight scenes. During the first showing of the play one of the actors was struck in the face by a (presumably dulled) sword due to improper positioning of the actors (related to the slightly smaller set). This broke the orbital bone of his eye and caused brain damage. The show was immediately ended and he was hospitalized, but he was left with brain damage. After 7 months of PT he was able to walk again, but never fully recovered and was left with limited mobility and had trouble speaking. He still is acting to this day.
Thank you for the summary; you are the hero we all need.
I wish HN had a policy to more strongly moderate posts that clearly have absolutely nothing to do with Hacker culture, but I suppose the noise is low enough for the current policy to not really be a problem?
From my understanding, HN is for intellectually stimulating conversation. If it was 100% talk about database management and regex and software updates, that would not remain very engaging for long.
due to schedule constraints did not have a chance to fully rehearse one of the swordfight scenes
Wow, that is such a no-no. Fight choreographers drill into you that fight call is absolutely mandatory every day, even under identical circumstances.
Fighting is dangerous even when you follow all of the rules. I once had an actor have to go to the hospital after a one-in-a-million bounce of a dropped weapon, which had been well blunted for the stage but still managed to cut into his arm. At that point it's in the range of ordinary accidents like tripping over your own feet, but the fighters have to be especially wary of it because there are so many more ways for things to go wrong.
Numerous other safety measures also failed for this accident to occur. Both the one with the sword and the one stabbed failed to note the distance, and the one was swinging much, much too hard if it broke an eye bone. It sounds as if they were either fighting without supervision or got incredibly lazy about it. It needs to be investigated.
Somewhat related, Brandon Lee was killed in a firearm accident filming "The Crow". A dummy bullet was stuck in the barrel, and a subsequent blank cartridge was fired, causing the dummy bullet to propelled.
Responsible productions run a fight call, or a walkthrough of all the fight choreography in the show, before each and every performance. For a stage manager to bring up the curtain without having done this is a serious ethical violation. There would be fallout in the community, and likely official sanctions from the union. This is not okay.
Pervasive. Metal swords give a nice * ting * when they clash, and there is a whole discipline called stage combat precisely around dealing with how to fight safely using these weapons.
There are steps you're meant to go through before and during each move. We were taught "CRAP": you Communicate your move, the opponent Retreats, you Advance / Attack into the now empty space, the opponent Parries "into" the attack, but their body is out of the way. The idea being here that if you forget the choreography at any point, you're still safe, because you can't attack anything before the receiver has retreated out of the place you're attacking. However, the trick is to do this as smoothly and fluidly as possible, because that sells. It takes practice and maintenance not to let the emotion and adrenaline of the scene take over, and stick to the process, while ignoring the muscle memory of the choreo. It's often not considered an important skill during an audition by casting directors or directors, relative to credits and actual acting, and therefore not by actors themselves. Result: dangerous fights.
But cardboard or foam swords? No way. You want the audience to be on the edge of their seats, and that requires metal.
> I'm sure you could make a metal sword which has blunt edges and a soft point.
Most acting swords are safe in the cut. That's rarely a problem.
The real problem is the thrust. In order for a sword to move like a sword, it needs to be stiff.
Most fencing/acting swords have blunt/rounded tips, but that doesn't really matter if you get stabbed in the face - there's just too much force over too little surface area and some facial bones are too weak. In order to be truly safe without a fencing mask, the tip would have to be unacceptably large.
>Attack into the now empty space, the opponent Parries "into" the attack, but their body is out of the way
I've never done any sort of theater but have done some boxing and kickboxing type stuff. Newbies will often instinctively do what you describe and need to be trained out of it. A more advanced person sparring with the newer person will suddenly stop and make no attempt to get out of the way of an attack which will still not hit them because it was aimed at empty space in front of their nose for example.
And that's why martial artists are often a problem for stage combat choreographers. Martial artists are trained to hit things; actors are trained to miss.
I've also found that martial artists are very confident in their aim and control. Actors must not be, because things go wrong on stage, and errors result in injuries. You may be able to stop your punch within 1 inch of my nose 999 times out of 1,000... but I'm not going to go on stage with you to find out if this is my unlucky day.
It's not that martial artists can't be good stage combatants. They just need to step back and relearn everything in a completely different way, rather than adapt what they already know.
> Metal swords give a nice * ting * when they clash
I assume it's impossible to do this with sound effects without it sounding stupid (because if not, they'd presumably be doing that). Is there a reason why?
Your assumption is correct. I’ve been to a ton of plays and I have acted in many as well. The first dozen rows at least will instantly recognize the use of sound effects instead of blades.
I saw an actor get stabbed for real on stage in a production of Julius Caesar at the Stratford theater (Ontario, Canada). It was a long time ago, and not googleable. IIRC the retractable knife was broken. It happens.
He finished his scene, and returned as a corpse (acting!), before leaving for medical care.
I’ve wondered if productions throughout history have used live actors in real deathmatches for shows. I know Apocalypse Now had real corpses procured for some of the scenes accidentally until someone made a correction.
I did SCA heavy weapons fighting many years ago. The rule I was taught was that real weapons plus real techniques equals real injuries and deaths.
The SCA dealt with this issue by using real techniques with fake weapons — rattan swords, not metal. Some techniques were banned, too. Even with fake weapons, they were just too dangerous. The result was that a newbie could go out in armor and weapons and they might get bruised, but unlikely to get much worse than that.
The Marklanders dealt with this issue by using fake techniques with real weapons — blunted metal, but still metal. But you needed many years of practice before you could go out there and do what amounted to an impromptu “dance” with swords and survive without choreographing everything within an inch of its life.
Stage acting with metal weapons needs much choreography by people who know what they’re doing. And constant vigilance. I grew up in a theater family, and I refused to continue to participate in one amateur production where the director and the actors weren’t taking safety seriously. The director never forgave me for leaving, but I am confident that I was right.
26 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 73.4 ms ] threadI wish HN had a policy to more strongly moderate posts that clearly have absolutely nothing to do with Hacker culture, but I suppose the noise is low enough for the current policy to not really be a problem?
Wow, that is such a no-no. Fight choreographers drill into you that fight call is absolutely mandatory every day, even under identical circumstances.
Fighting is dangerous even when you follow all of the rules. I once had an actor have to go to the hospital after a one-in-a-million bounce of a dropped weapon, which had been well blunted for the stage but still managed to cut into his arm. At that point it's in the range of ordinary accidents like tripping over your own feet, but the fighters have to be especially wary of it because there are so many more ways for things to go wrong.
Numerous other safety measures also failed for this accident to occur. Both the one with the sword and the one stabbed failed to note the distance, and the one was swinging much, much too hard if it broke an eye bone. It sounds as if they were either fighting without supervision or got incredibly lazy about it. It needs to be investigated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum
There are steps you're meant to go through before and during each move. We were taught "CRAP": you Communicate your move, the opponent Retreats, you Advance / Attack into the now empty space, the opponent Parries "into" the attack, but their body is out of the way. The idea being here that if you forget the choreography at any point, you're still safe, because you can't attack anything before the receiver has retreated out of the place you're attacking. However, the trick is to do this as smoothly and fluidly as possible, because that sells. It takes practice and maintenance not to let the emotion and adrenaline of the scene take over, and stick to the process, while ignoring the muscle memory of the choreo. It's often not considered an important skill during an audition by casting directors or directors, relative to credits and actual acting, and therefore not by actors themselves. Result: dangerous fights.
But cardboard or foam swords? No way. You want the audience to be on the edge of their seats, and that requires metal.
Most acting swords are safe in the cut. That's rarely a problem.
The real problem is the thrust. In order for a sword to move like a sword, it needs to be stiff.
Most fencing/acting swords have blunt/rounded tips, but that doesn't really matter if you get stabbed in the face - there's just too much force over too little surface area and some facial bones are too weak. In order to be truly safe without a fencing mask, the tip would have to be unacceptably large.
I've never done any sort of theater but have done some boxing and kickboxing type stuff. Newbies will often instinctively do what you describe and need to be trained out of it. A more advanced person sparring with the newer person will suddenly stop and make no attempt to get out of the way of an attack which will still not hit them because it was aimed at empty space in front of their nose for example.
I've also found that martial artists are very confident in their aim and control. Actors must not be, because things go wrong on stage, and errors result in injuries. You may be able to stop your punch within 1 inch of my nose 999 times out of 1,000... but I'm not going to go on stage with you to find out if this is my unlucky day.
It's not that martial artists can't be good stage combatants. They just need to step back and relearn everything in a completely different way, rather than adapt what they already know.
I assume it's impossible to do this with sound effects without it sounding stupid (because if not, they'd presumably be doing that). Is there a reason why?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ancient.eu/amp/1-432/
The SCA dealt with this issue by using real techniques with fake weapons — rattan swords, not metal. Some techniques were banned, too. Even with fake weapons, they were just too dangerous. The result was that a newbie could go out in armor and weapons and they might get bruised, but unlikely to get much worse than that.
The Marklanders dealt with this issue by using fake techniques with real weapons — blunted metal, but still metal. But you needed many years of practice before you could go out there and do what amounted to an impromptu “dance” with swords and survive without choreographing everything within an inch of its life.
Stage acting with metal weapons needs much choreography by people who know what they’re doing. And constant vigilance. I grew up in a theater family, and I refused to continue to participate in one amateur production where the director and the actors weren’t taking safety seriously. The director never forgave me for leaving, but I am confident that I was right.