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Is anybody else not getting paid “because Covid”?

21 points by madaxe_again ↗ HN
In the last few days I’ve had two clients, large American firms, say that they are suspending all payments due to covid. One had the excuse that they couldn’t pay because their accounts team can’t remotely access their systems used for contractor payments, and hoped to resume payments in April. The other simply said they were suspending all payments until covid is over. These are both $100M+ businesses.

This has me scratching my head, as the banks sure as hell expect me to pay my mortgages on time. No mortgage holiday available without a steep penalty and re-evaluation of interest rate after the holiday... I have savings, but they won’t last forever with zero income.

Anyone else in the same boat? Is this even legal for firms to do?

I have standard force majeure clauses in my contracts - but they allow early termination in a pandemic, not not paying.

13 comments

[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 41.9 ms ] thread
Animats
No, it's not legal. Start by reporting them to the credit reporting companies.
anigbrowl
Better team up and make the banks accept the same terms. Write a letter saying it's happening and will be in effect until the emergency is over. You might even be able to find a clause in your mortgage agreement about how to do it. Send it to their legal department and say they have 7 days to reply, or something along those lines. Chances are their legal/administrative people are not in the office right now anyway.
madaxe_again
The problem is that in the U.K., there is no official state of emergency, so nothing for me to use on that angle, unfortunately - when I spoke with them both on Friday, they said that unless the govt announces an emergency and explicitly instructs them otherwise, it’s business as usual.
anigbrowl
Team up with others and swamp them in paperwork. There are probably people organizing rent strikes right now; Italy has frozen many financial transfers so you'll find many takers. Good luck.
MarcoSanto
Same problem here. Where are you located? Not US, I suppose. This sounds like something that call for its own subreddit, because, even if there might be remedial lawsuits you can bring to them, it will be expensive to litigate in US. I am afraid they count on that. Given this is a real emergency/problem for everybody now. In Italy, government has temporarily forbidden the actioning of repossession/penalties clauses in mortgage contracts and has suspended payment of taxes. I would recommend banding together with other people in your country/same situation.
madaxe_again
My company is domiciled in the U.K., and that’s where the mortgages are - I live in Portugal. Unfortunately only two lenders in the U.K. have said they’re granting concessions, and when I spoke to both of my lenders on Friday after I’d heard from clients, they both said that yes, I can have a holiday, but only on the terms I mentioned - as far as they’re concerned it’s all BAU until the government says otherwise.

I mean, if your business or income is entirely domestic, I suppose this is ok - but if your income is primarily from a country that has now declared a state of emergency and has companies using this as an excuse to shirk their bills, it’s something of an issue.

MarcoSanto
The only advice I may be able to give you, and to myself, is talk to an association of SMB in England. Not sure it helps, but we are all in the same boat. No payment here also.
fulafel
Some banks are offering breaks on mortgages, so don't make too many blanket assumptions about that.
ojosilva
Brace for impact, be flexible (as these are extraordinary circumstances) and forget about lawsuits or credit reporting as that would be very bad rep for you or your business as it's somewhat of an ugly gesture - if you care about a reputation anyway. Look for government assistence if needed to pay bills by getting some of the smb credits being made available. Borrowing on invoice debt may be an option at your local bank. Payment enforcing is basically shutdown anyway. This is a major, WW shutdown, primary needs are top and invoiced payments are low in everyone priorities right now.

And this could go on for months, not weeks as some believe. If you take up new work now, request payment upfront.

Disclosure: I'm in Europe and I run a sw SMB with many €100M+ clients who have frozen all payments.

Beman30
I am not 100M company, but I have always paid my dues. Since CV came into place (a month ago) I've earned nothing, even if my business were not locked down I had no more customers, so no more money. I ve called all my debtors and explained, same they did with their debtors and so on, usually chain should finish to banks (mortgages, loans, Ecc...) Tomorrow Italian government should put in place a lot of stuff, one is the freezing of debts to banks. Over here we are all on the same boat so we deeply understand each other, no litigations on sight. I also planned to pay back in a couple of months when things will start to move back again.
BjoernKW
Fortunately, nothing like that has happened to me so far.

It's definitely not legal and, in my opinion, highly unethical as well. While it's understandable that companies scramble to protect their cash flow now one still has to pay one's dues.

Since you're based in another country it'll be difficult to quickly enforce your claim unless they have a local branch.

Invoice factoring might be an option but in the current climate this could be quite expensive. Still, getting paid x % of the original invoice amount is better than getting nothing.

Taking out a loan on accounts receivable might be another option.

chewz
In times like this cash is king. You avoid paying your suppliers to keep as much liquidity as possible for yourself.
judlaw
I run a legaltech called 40Q, happy to help and figure out if there is something that can be done here. Is on a case to case basis. Feel free to reach out.