https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFB_C2ieW5I&t=12m50s
* lots of secretions full of virus are worse than a little bit of secretions. more virus = person gets sicker
* doctors might get coughed / sneezed at etc.
I was pretty adamant about pointing this out earlier. It’s so basic and for someone like the Surgeon General to spread misinformation is criminal in my view. Sure, it didn’t help that some people were hoarding the masks but the shortage was largely due to much of the US supply being redirected to China in January.
It's good to see this, but the NYT should go the extra mile and publish reliable designs and instructions on how to make workable low-grade (surgical-like) DIY masks, starting from widely-available textiles or other materials.
I'm glad this article came out. When I first started hearing about the first few cases in January I picked up a small supply of N95 masks, hoping that I wouldn't need them. Since then, all of the points in this article have been striking me as odd - and eventually I shrugged my shoulders and decided that I'd use my masks regardless of whether they said they were effective.
From an engineering and first-aid standpoint I figured they can't hurt, so it's good to see other people with the same perspective.
>If the public is told that only the sick people are to wear masks, then those who do wear them will be stigmatized and people may well avoid wearing them if it screams “I’m sick.”
If people avoid you that's rather good. Also, the mask might also say "I'm a healthcare worker who mustn't get sick, please keep the highest possible distance."
Telling people they needed masks would be far worse. Now we only have to deal with problems caused by a minority of selfish antisocials, not the majority of prosocials.
Umbrellas work fairly well in steady rain, but they're not too useful on sunny days when you might happen to pass a lawn sprinkler once in a while.
Health care takes place in steady rain. The goal is to reduce exposure below the viral load required for infectivity.
If you walk around with an umbrella on a sunny day, you are bound to get careless.
By the time a member of the public has a rare high-risk interaction, a mask is not going to seal around your nose, or it will be open at the sides, or moisture from your breath will have compromised it, or it will be incompetent due to being long past the very short mandatory replacement time.
In the current climate, encountering people in public doesn't feel like a sunny day. I'm breathing shallow and keeping distance. I suspect people careful enough to be wearing a mask in public are staying very aware of their mask. Especially as they get within sneeze range.
Even surgical masks which don't form a vacuum around the mouth and nose help. A mask is not all or nothing, switching from 100% protection to 0% if it gets "compromised".
And a mask is more like a raincoat, not like an umbrella. Raincoats also work against sprinklers ;)
I am by no means an antivaxxer, but I have to admit that the obvious doublespeak about masks made me slightly skeptical about the rest of the messaging coming from authorities on Covid-19.
Lying in an era of unlimited information is a dangerous thing.
So it turns out the whole "truth" of not needing a mask is because of supply issues that may cause problem to people who need them, i.e the Medical staff.
How about manufacturers of Mask ( 3M ) simply prioritising delivery to medical staff first?
HK, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, the closest to China with way more Chinese visitors has managed to remain under control. And at least their business activities is not a complete halt.
The world could have spent a fraction of the money to make enough mask but instead they are now left with billions of package to save stocks and billions to hand out for those living pay check by pay check.
Had a conversation just like this with an Uber driver a couple of days ago: "Why are they telling us not to wear masks? Like they're only effective for hospital staff...it doesn't make sense." The guy was wearing his mask.
Because the officials are recommending against masks, there is huge social pressure against people wearing masks, making those that have them avoid wearing them.
Here in Paradise, I had some unused 3M N95 NIOSH respirators leftover from the Camp Fire. Who knew they'd be useful for more than gardening and sawing lumber? I also snagged a few 3M 1870 surgical masks before the gouging and scarcity for their higher surface area because going out in public and pushing a 400 lbs / 180 kg shopping cart around in a light-duty respirator is likely to be a not as fun adventure in breath condensation. Be sure to also wear eye protection like indirect or non-vented goggles too, because wearing regular glasses will likely aerodynamically direct small particulates into the eyes.
According to Italian media, 50-75% of those infected are asymptomatic and the vast majority are 20-somethings.
I think anyone who thought critically about it could see through this. It's not the masks are ineffective, it's that they're not necessary for the average person to be reasonably safe, and they're in short supply, so we should be focusing on mitigations that are available to the general public.
If you wash your hands frequently, don't touch your face, and maintain a safe distance from others, your risk goes down dramatically. If you add a mask to that, your risk goes down modestly. Everyone can do the first set of steps, but not everyone will have access to masks, and having more people panic about getting masks will likely cause more problems than we have already.
I feel like that was the intended message, but they weren't transparent about it. Trust is built over time and can be destroyed in an instant. Our leaders need to be much more careful.
> I think anyone who thought critically about it could see through this.
Any five year old knows some protection is obviously better than none. It's unbelievable that some people went along with such utter, obvious dangerous stupidity and repeated it.
Imagine advice on HIV being condoms sometimes break, DON'T USE THEM.
Would some people be ignorant enough to accept and spread such criminally stupid advice (and often in a condescending way) because it came from an official or authoritative source? Apparently probably.
> Everyone can do the first set of steps
Nah, not touching your face is an impossibility. People touch their faces constantly, hundreds of times a day, and usually are not even aware they're doing it.
Aside from added protection, wearing a mask of any kind is a constant reminder of a not normal situation and to practice the other safety advice, distance, awareness of unclean surfaces, washing.
23 comments
[ 1.4 ms ] story [ 54.9 ms ] threadI'm glad I spent time (several weeks ago) doing my own research on the issue, and consulting experts directly.
And took appropriate action to protect friends and family.
Makes me sick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFB_C2ieW5I&t=15m50s (the same video) * N95 masks prevent things from getting in, surgical mask prevents things from getting out * N95 masks are in short supply
If I understand the expert correctly N95 are good and masks for everyone would be good, but there aren't enough for everyone.
From an engineering and first-aid standpoint I figured they can't hurt, so it's good to see other people with the same perspective.
If people avoid you that's rather good. Also, the mask might also say "I'm a healthcare worker who mustn't get sick, please keep the highest possible distance."
Health care takes place in steady rain. The goal is to reduce exposure below the viral load required for infectivity.
If you walk around with an umbrella on a sunny day, you are bound to get careless.
By the time a member of the public has a rare high-risk interaction, a mask is not going to seal around your nose, or it will be open at the sides, or moisture from your breath will have compromised it, or it will be incompetent due to being long past the very short mandatory replacement time.
And a mask is more like a raincoat, not like an umbrella. Raincoats also work against sprinklers ;)
Indeed. Oh these scientists/doctors/authorities are willing lie. What else are they lying about?
People who say masks work are similar to antivaxx, who don't trust authorities. Now I understand how antivaxx people feel like.
Lying in an era of unlimited information is a dangerous thing.
How about manufacturers of Mask ( 3M ) simply prioritising delivery to medical staff first?
HK, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan, the closest to China with way more Chinese visitors has managed to remain under control. And at least their business activities is not a complete halt.
The world could have spent a fraction of the money to make enough mask but instead they are now left with billions of package to save stocks and billions to hand out for those living pay check by pay check.
Because the officials are recommending against masks, there is huge social pressure against people wearing masks, making those that have them avoid wearing them.
According to Italian media, 50-75% of those infected are asymptomatic and the vast majority are 20-somethings.
If you wash your hands frequently, don't touch your face, and maintain a safe distance from others, your risk goes down dramatically. If you add a mask to that, your risk goes down modestly. Everyone can do the first set of steps, but not everyone will have access to masks, and having more people panic about getting masks will likely cause more problems than we have already.
I feel like that was the intended message, but they weren't transparent about it. Trust is built over time and can be destroyed in an instant. Our leaders need to be much more careful.
Any five year old knows some protection is obviously better than none. It's unbelievable that some people went along with such utter, obvious dangerous stupidity and repeated it.
Imagine advice on HIV being condoms sometimes break, DON'T USE THEM.
Would some people be ignorant enough to accept and spread such criminally stupid advice (and often in a condescending way) because it came from an official or authoritative source? Apparently probably.
> Everyone can do the first set of steps
Nah, not touching your face is an impossibility. People touch their faces constantly, hundreds of times a day, and usually are not even aware they're doing it.
Aside from added protection, wearing a mask of any kind is a constant reminder of a not normal situation and to practice the other safety advice, distance, awareness of unclean surfaces, washing.