25 comments

[ 1411 ms ] story [ 549 ms ] thread
Interesting that this find contains iron artifacts, so Gabon had iron-working in the 14th-century (or long-distance trade). I have traveled some of rural West Africa where life is not too different than centuries ago – no electricity, no literacy, and the only sign of modernity is the fact that people wear second-hand t-shirts, or the packages of biscuits and sardines one might find for sale. But we know that in pre-colonial West Africa there was ironworking going on, because it was used for weapons and jewelry and there was a traditional caste dedicated to it, but none of that metallurgical activity survives today. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to witness iron being worked according to the old ways, but I suppose it is easier for communities now to import that from the outside world, even if they are cash-poor.
I once toured a stone ruin site[0] where my grandmother was born. It is now a national park. They were moved out about 80-90 years ago. My oldest uncle who would be going onto 90 was actually born at the site of the ruins. There are signs of iron works there. Iron was mainly used to make arrow tips. I don't remember my gran talking about iron works. I stand to be corrected. Note to ask my dad about this. Anyway the point I am making is how life changes so drastically in a generation let alone a few centuries.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumbusi_National_Monument

I have never heard of that site before. Is it worth visiting?

I have wanted to visit Great Zimbabwe.

Great Zimbabwe is definitely worth visiting. It's interesting you mention Great Zimbabwe because my grandmother's people came from Great Zimbabwe and brought some of the building skills with them.

To answer your question, well Bumbusi is in the Hwange National Park which is largest game reserve in Zimbabwe. Whilst the ruins might not be spectacular it's a great place to see animals in the wild. It's also on your way to the Victoria Falls if you coming from great Zimbabwe. Hope that helps.

I wish they would leave those people alone. They wouldnt get away with that if they did it at Arlington cemetery. They'd be in prison.
The european colonists fucked the place so bad that now the only way to learn about the indigenous people is to desecrate their burial sites, further destroying their culture and identity. Now WE are the experts, and they're just bones in a museum basement. I think it's disgusting.
> desecrate their burial sites, further destroying their culture and identity

"Desecration" is not an objective concept. If the local people no longer remember that burial and regard it as sacred – and in the absence of written sources, seven centuries is enough to sunder any living link between a historical population and the population currently inhabiting a place – it is hard to claim that damage is being done here. Also, Africa has seen population movements, such as the Bantu Expansion, by which peoples living in a place today may not be the descendants of those uncovered by archaeologists at all.

This also isn’t something that foreigners are doing uniquely to Africa. Graves from this era regularly get dug up by archaeologists across Europe. How else do you think we know so much about the impact of the Mongol invasion and the Black Death on European settlements?

I don't think such information is worth violating the final wishes of our elders. I doubt any of those people died thinking that someone was going to come to rifle through their belongings and put them in a drawer.
That's valid, it's just a minority view. Most societies aren't willing to interfere with recent graves without good cause, but few have any great concern for exhuming very old graves.
That's not true. Most of the iron smelting cultures in Africa dissolved on their own without European interference.
The site is from the 14th century. Europeans came to central Africa in the 15th century when there were still many well organized kingdoms and societies there. European interference in terms of guns and the slave trade was a major part of these cultures dissolving.
The GP is presumably referring to the Ghana and Mali Empires, which did arise in large part through ironworking, and then declined due to internal strife some time before European colonialism took off in the region (the former empire collapsed centuries before the Europeans arrived).
History has a lot to teach us. By not examining burial sites knowledge is lost. The spirits who's bodies are buried have moved on don't get stuck on form or belief that culture is static. Ignoring a culture is probably more disgusting.
Desecrating a burial site, rifling through a person's belongings, exposing their body to the elements and moving them to away from their preferred resting place to a basement. I think that this constitutes ignoring a culture.
why does no-one point out the constant and enduring slaving of central Asia in these discussions.. for centuries ! the Western EUs were hardly the only slavers, they are just more wealthy now..
My guess is that you cannot get hard-currency reparations from poor people.
What a disgusting thing to say.

If I said this of your modern African colonists in our European homelands today I'd be banned within minutes.

Disgusting race-baiting rubbish.

If I said this of your modern African colonists in our European homelands today I'd be banned within minutes.

I am genuinely concerned. I don't want anyone to treat me the way these archaeologists treat our ancestors. I want to be left the hell alone.