The rise of Nazism was a challenge to other countries, and to minorities and to Socialists in Germany. But - it wasn't a challenge to Germany. Don't assume the state is by default somehow benevolent, and "evil" governments are antithetical to that essence.
I still doubt it's as big of a challenge as rebuilding post-WW2. Mortality rate stayed above 20 for decades after WW2, and there was always the threat of USSR hostilities.
This coronavirus is certainly causing problems, but this type of statement cheapens what Germans after WW2 went through.
1. I'm entirely unsure German politicians will say this in hindsight.
2. De-Nazification, and coming to grips with what had happened in Germany during those years, was a greater challenge - which Germany overall failed. In West Germany most of the regime simply persisted (the Nazi party was disbanded, but most of the rest of it just stayed in place; and the ownership of capital remained mostly untouched); in the East, there were numerous executions and significant social changes, but a lot of this was Russian influence and it was more heavy-handed than a deep social process AFAIK.
3. Forty years of cold war were also a great challenge, probably more so than the covid-19 pandemic.
Which is really odd. Germany was completely wrecked after WW2, relying largely on US aid for much of the period leading up to the Berlin Wall coming down. She was only a child for much of that period, and arguably wasn't around for the worst of it.
Yeah, this rapidly spreading disease is a royal pain, but it'll most likely be resolved within the year, with the worst of it probably ending within the next couple months. In fact, they could probably do absolutely nothing to fatten the curve and have a lower mortality rate than Cold War Germany.
Yes, this coronavirus is nasty, but it's definitely not worse than the Cold War.
> She was only a child for much of that period, and arguably wasn't around for the worst of it.
She was also in East Germany and somewhat close to the ruling party, being an active member of their youth organization. She was, allegedly, working for them on spreading propaganda at the university she was studying at. She half-heartedly denies it and cites her failing memory, obviously.
Yeah, I still disagree with that. I'm sure the Cold War era with a split Germany and high tensions world wide would certainly qualify, unless she's lumping that in with "ww2" (which is fair from the anti-Nazi German perspective).
I think Germany is handling this crisis really well[0].
Almost 20-25 days back, Merkel herself stated that they are expecting 70% people to get infected and that their main objective is to flatten the curve so as not to stress healthcare. It's hard in times like these to be so truthful about numbers(right from start) especially when other leaders were just denying the truth until the cases ramped up.
It also shows that the administration was listening to experts right from the beginning rather than playing the wait game or blatantly denying the seriousness of situation.
Unfortunately many essential things like masks and other protective gear are missing. They could have been ordered much earlier and kept in reserve, now everybody's out of stock of course. Kudos to the companies helping here with changing their production (Trigema apparently)
Countries are finding out that most government institutions for viral disaster preparedness were completely unprepared for this pandemic. Little to supplies stored, no plans ready before it hit, extremely slow responses.
> I think Germany is handling this crisis really well
The fact that it already came to a crisis is a problem. Why was border crossing travel still allowed for so long? Why did Germany still let people go to their vacations? Germany was one of the last countries to recognize Ischgl as a risk area while German tourists being the biggest group there. Had all of this happened, the cost for German society would have been much smaller than the current situation. We wouldn't need a curfew because the virus wouldn't have been here.
In fact, the entire EU failed for not issuing travel bans e.g. to China quickly enough, and not quarantining those who still are allowed to travel.
Very true. The entire EU also failed to co-operate during this crisis. And I fear that it will have a very adverse long-term effect on the EU as an institution. It was shown that in times of crisis, each country is alone. Sadly.
> I think Germany is handling this crisis really well
People are out in groups, in parks, drinking with friends, I see old people in line in supermarkets next to coughing people, no safety distance, no masks, supermarket shelves are more and more empty, people dinning with their entire family from toddlers to grand parents, &c.
I expect Merkel to announce an Italy/France style full lockdown in the next few weeks when they figure out that people simply don't care about what the gov is asking for.
Perhaps, but at least Germany is tackling this on the data front. They are performing over 160,000 tests a week [1]. That's more than most countries have tested in total.
All over the press today that they will look at tomorrow’s (21.03.2020) population activity and make the lockdown decision based on that. In the region where I live (south of Aachen) it is visible that people take this serious. Distance is kept, not much traffic, streets generally empty, tourists are gone. But next week will be sunny. Let’s see.
Someone from Berlin here, my observed reality is quite different. Hospitals are massively preparing for the expected infections, people are largely staying at home and business are reorganizing to handle the crisis.
Sure there is still an observable portion of the citizens which seems to be in denial, but I guess this was to be expected.
Ah I got my information from someone in the NRW area and it was about half a week ago, I just synced up with them today and they said things are changing, but it does seem like a rather late response. Was mostly a counterpoint to the statement that Germany is handling this well.
> It also shows that the administration was listening to experts right from the beginning [...]
In times like this, it doesn't hurt that Merkel is a scientist. (She's a former professor of quantum chemistry.)
That said, as another commenter pointed out, social distancing is barely a thing here at the moment, and I expect we'll wind up in full lock down as a result.
> In times like this, it doesn't hurt that Merkel is a scientist. (She's a former professor of quantum chemistry.)
Her husband is/was. She's not a professor and not a chemist, she studied physics.
RE "social distancing": seems to be very different depending on where you are. It's pretty effective where I am, but I hear it's not in the large cities.
I kind of disagree, I would consider reunification efforts during the cold war to be a much bigger challenge than coronavirus. Also making comparisons to ww2, however valid, is just about the fastest way to get people to disregard a statement as hyperbole. Optics is important.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 95.0 ms ] threadActually, a line like this could well be part of curious conversation in person. But on the internet these things come across differently.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Also, this is what she said, only then NOT to implement any mandatory stay-at-home policies.
This coronavirus is certainly causing problems, but this type of statement cheapens what Germans after WW2 went through.
The only weird thing is your need to rephrase it out of some "offense on behalf of another" reflex.
2. De-Nazification, and coming to grips with what had happened in Germany during those years, was a greater challenge - which Germany overall failed. In West Germany most of the regime simply persisted (the Nazi party was disbanded, but most of the rest of it just stayed in place; and the ownership of capital remained mostly untouched); in the East, there were numerous executions and significant social changes, but a lot of this was Russian influence and it was more heavy-handed than a deep social process AFAIK.
3. Forty years of cold war were also a great challenge, probably more so than the covid-19 pandemic.
Which means she considers the pandemic a bigger challenge than German reunification after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Yeah, this rapidly spreading disease is a royal pain, but it'll most likely be resolved within the year, with the worst of it probably ending within the next couple months. In fact, they could probably do absolutely nothing to fatten the curve and have a lower mortality rate than Cold War Germany.
Yes, this coronavirus is nasty, but it's definitely not worse than the Cold War.
She was also in East Germany and somewhat close to the ruling party, being an active member of their youth organization. She was, allegedly, working for them on spreading propaganda at the university she was studying at. She half-heartedly denies it and cites her failing memory, obviously.
> ...since the Second World War, there has been no challenge to our nation that has demanded such a degree of common and united action.
Almost 20-25 days back, Merkel herself stated that they are expecting 70% people to get infected and that their main objective is to flatten the curve so as not to stress healthcare. It's hard in times like these to be so truthful about numbers(right from start) especially when other leaders were just denying the truth until the cases ramped up.
It also shows that the administration was listening to experts right from the beginning rather than playing the wait game or blatantly denying the seriousness of situation.
[0]: https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/02/the-latest-coronavirus...
The fact that it already came to a crisis is a problem. Why was border crossing travel still allowed for so long? Why did Germany still let people go to their vacations? Germany was one of the last countries to recognize Ischgl as a risk area while German tourists being the biggest group there. Had all of this happened, the cost for German society would have been much smaller than the current situation. We wouldn't need a curfew because the virus wouldn't have been here.
In fact, the entire EU failed for not issuing travel bans e.g. to China quickly enough, and not quarantining those who still are allowed to travel.
People are out in groups, in parks, drinking with friends, I see old people in line in supermarkets next to coughing people, no safety distance, no masks, supermarket shelves are more and more empty, people dinning with their entire family from toddlers to grand parents, &c.
I expect Merkel to announce an Italy/France style full lockdown in the next few weeks when they figure out that people simply don't care about what the gov is asking for.
[1] https://www.ft.com/content/c0755b30-69bb-11ea-800d-da70cff6e...
Sure there is still an observable portion of the citizens which seems to be in denial, but I guess this was to be expected.
In times like this, it doesn't hurt that Merkel is a scientist. (She's a former professor of quantum chemistry.)
That said, as another commenter pointed out, social distancing is barely a thing here at the moment, and I expect we'll wind up in full lock down as a result.
Her husband is/was. She's not a professor and not a chemist, she studied physics.
RE "social distancing": seems to be very different depending on where you are. It's pretty effective where I am, but I hear it's not in the large cities.