> In addition, ceasing all export of respirators produced in the United States would likely cause other countries to retaliate and do the same, as some have already done. If that were to occur, the net number of respirators being made available to the United States would actually decrease.
This is a very good point. We really don't want China cutting us off right now.
"Factories are skipping QC and sacrificing quality in favor of volume, and also scammers are trying to cash in on the skyrocketing demand" is way more likely than "China is making deliberately faulty masks". Come on now.
You haven't seen the videos maybe? People spitting in masks (in China, purportedly) and doorknobs and elevator (in Europe, purportedly). Not a proof and not directly related but I wouldn't put it past China. It shocks me when they claim they have 0 new corona virus cases. If they're lying about something as basic as this, what else are they lying about.
There's been multiple people in the US coughing on lettuce, lick produce etc. Does that mean you wouldn't put it past America that masks exported to Canada will be laced with covid?
It's a meaningless thing to debate. To the extent coercion comes in to play, trust breaks down, so you can never know what's really going on. That's why bullies lose in the long run, but probably so does everyone.
It's actually kind of a terrible point, because they're completely different countries. The ones who are trying to buy masks from the US aren't the ones selling them to the US.
But export restrictions are also kind of silly. Why not just outbid the other guy for the masks? Then the higher price will bring more producers into the market faster, which is really the most important thing anyway.
> Last week, a Trump administration official working to secure much-needed protective gear for doctors and nurses in the United States had a startling encounter with counterparts in Thailand.
> The official asked the Thais for help—only to be informed by the puzzled voices on the other side of the line that a U.S. shipment of the same supplies, the second of two so far, was already on its way to Bangkok.
> The official asked the Thais for help—only to be informed by the puzzled voices on the other side of the line that a U.S. shipment of the same supplies, the second of two so far, was already on its way to Bangkok.
...and then they stopped sending them over there.
If you already need more than you have, selling what you have is typically only done by mistake. Its the places that can make more than they need that are selling them.
It is also not their call or place to be worrying about international foreign policy/trade implications. That is explicitly the Federal Government's purview. Given the invocation of the DPA, which they may challenge in court if they wish; but as everyone is so fond of saying when the law appears to be on their side, "The law is the law." I don't see the courts even flinching on this point either. The President gave the order, the order is lawful. Just because you think it's a bad idea (and I sympathize), doesn't mean you just get to ignore it. Then again, I love me some Civil Disobedience (though now is really not the best time for it).
Alternatively we can throw in the towel on the whole "nation of laws, not men" thing, and just let companies do what they want, but I'd rather not live in that cyberpunk dystopia waiting to happen.
Though the irony of the moment does strike me as humorous. The overall credibility of the Federal apparatus is at such an all time low, we've got multi-nationals doing foreign policymaking for them.
Since when has the People's Republic of China ever been a friend of America? I think it's the other way around. China REALLY doesn't want U.S. cutting them off right now, even when we probably should.
> China made half the world’s masks before the coronavirus emerged there. The government has been undertaking a massive mobilization of wartime proportions to expand its output since then. Daily production soared from about 10 million before the crisis to 116 million now, according to the latest number released late last month by China's National Development and Reform Commission.
Because they're right, but in a way you don't want to hear, so you want to make it so they can't say the truth that you don't like?
And what would "nationalizing" them look like, anyway? You realize that they're a multinational corporation, right? You could nationalize the US part, but you'd lose the rest of them. Even solely for purposes of the respirators, the result might not be better than what they're giving you now.
Tell that to my wife who is going in to treat COVID patients in the ICU this Sunday. I’ll give you her phone number and you can leave her a voicemail explaining why exporting N95 masks while she can’t get one is OK.
Forgive me but I don't feel like the article in any way actually states they refuse to honour the government's demand. What part of the article mentions that?
Government has signed an Act prohibiting 3M from exporting N95 masks from the US, what you read isn’t an article it is a 3M press release stating 3M will not comply with the Act and continue to export N95 masks
That is corporate speak for if you don’t allow 3M to export from The US to Canada then next time those 10M masks aren’t coming from 3M China to the US but 3M China direct to 3M Canada.
Anyway there is a lot more information available as to what’s going on with Canadian orders and 3M Canada. Put it this way Canada has ordered 65M and 3M Canada and Canada both refuse to say how many 3M is providing in that order.
No where in the linked statement does 3M say they will not comply. They point out potential issues that the order may cause but do not say they won't comply.
The maximum penalty provided by the Defense Production Act is a $10,000 fine, or one year in prison, or both.
The government may also seek an injunction from a court of appropriate jurisdiction to prohibit the continuance of any violation of, or to enforce compliance with, the Defense Production Act, this part, or an official action.
Beyond that, removal of the CEO by the Board of Directors would be the most likely outcome. I haven't looked at who is on the Board but I'm betting most of them are susceptible to pressure from the government and the public.
My understanding is that "In addition, ceasing all export of respirators produced in the United States would likely cause other countries to retaliate” is what would happen if they went with it and currently it’s not happening. Also the wording is about a US “request”, if they feel that it becomes an “order” they will probably comply.
Apparently, the US has the nice problem of a competing market whereby states and hospitals bid up the prices to that legally ambiguous area called "price gouging".
I presume it's much simpler to avoid being accused of gouging and selling to countries which pay prices according to supply and demand.
Going to be hard to make those 3M masks when all the pulp used to make them is produced in Canada and we stop selling it to you cause you won't sell us masks.
Here's the link to Wikipedia and I quote "The N95 mask requires a fine mesh of synthetic polymer fibers, also known as nonwoven polypropylene fabric,[5] which is produced through a highly specialized process called melt blowing that forms the inner filtration layer that filters out hazardous particles.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_mask
The US has ten times the population and ten times the economy. Canada would have ten times the pain if it decided to get into an economic war with the US and would still not get the masks it wants. The US however does have plenty of pulp production that can be diverted into whatever use is most important at the moment.
This should be a wake up call to Canada to stop being so dependent on exporting commodities. It's been this way for my entire life and has been a constant complaint in Canadian economic circles but for some reason Canada doesn't seem to want to diversify. Maybe this will change that attitude.
Pulp production is not a nameless commodity, it needs to be up to a certain spec for surgical masks, for example. Canada is the supplier for a great many US companies. Sure, the US could try to produce that speficic spec, but it would not be easy and would take precious weeks that the US cannot spare. If it could, production would just increase for respirators, but this has to be done instead because it takes too much time. And in that time, Canada will likely be able to set up production for the masks, actually. If I remember correctly 3M Canada does make filter media, so the expertise is there. It isn't rocket science either, it just takes time.
In a full scale economic war between the US and Canda, at least all Canadians will still have water and electricity.
So the free market fails yet again and everyone is doing proteccionism, social programs and socializing necessary goods. Nice to see what really works.
> We’re not categorically against exports but want to understand what happens, because previously it was so that masks went not where they were most needed but where most was paid.
That's unfortunate, but it doesn't justify the behavior of the administration. There was a time when America did what was right, and acted as a beacon.
> We’re not categorically against exports but want to understand what happens, because previously it was so that masks went not where they were most needed but where most was paid.
They are literally handling the problems the US/Trump is causing right now.
So much for friendship/partnership. I hope next time US asks Canada to participate in their never ending quests in middle east they'll get nice f.. you in return.
Canada should never participate in military action it feels is unwarranted, friends or not. If Canada has been going along with never ending quests just because the other countries involved are "friends", then it is morally bankrupt for doing so.
In the end though, Canada and every other country in the world should realize that the United States doesn't have friends, it has interests.
I'm curious whether you have noticed the incredibly serious situation in NYC and New Orleans and many other areas of the USA. At the moment they have more people infected of Covid-19 in just NYC than Canada has people infected across the whole country. Almost 1900 dead in just NYC.
Do you not feel this is serious enough of a situation that it requires all the masks this American company makes to be sent to these hot spots? Should the US not try to save its own citizens lives above trying to be friends with Canada or South America?
Your facts also coincide with weak leadership and very bad/recent decisions about reducing subsidies for health institutions (even cancelling a pandemic warning system that already identified strains of corona!) in favor of tax cuts for the already-rich.
That is most definitely not the fault of Canada to handle it better than the US.
Also, the chance that a non-American company will have a crucial piece of the puzzle for solving this is very big.
Good luck with your short-term way of thinking if other countries will put US on the last place on the list.
"United States doesn't have friends, it has interests" - nothing new in here. True for any other country as well. Still it goes like I do something for you and you do something for me. So I hope next time it'll be a middle finger.
And you are forgetting one thing. Interests, as you described it, aren't making the US a top dog as it was.
It's already ( under Trump) deteriorating faster than I could have imagined. And his actions are making it worse. Others are already trying to fill in the void and Trump is making it easier for them.
This should leave you more worried than me if you only have "interests".
The pulp that 3M uses to produce the n95 respirator is grown exclusively in British Columbia, CANADA and is milled by a company in Victoria, British Columbia, CANADA
I'm no expert, but I am sure the only pulp used in a N95 respirator is the box they put the 10 or 20 masks in. They can easily replace that with a bag.
Here's the link to Wikipedia and I quote "The N95 mask requires a fine mesh of synthetic polymer fibers, also known as nonwoven polypropylene fabric,[5] which is produced through a highly specialized process called melt blowing that forms the inner filtration layer that filters out hazardous particles.[6]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_mask
And you are an expert? Basic Google just backed me up.
the 8511 masks used in construction have a one-way valve for free-flow exhalation. The mask only protects the wearer from particulates in the environment. It doesn't protect the environment from particulates exhaled by the wearer. These would not be suitable for use by healthcare workers.
nevertheless 8511 masks disappeared from the market, and Amazon is telling me they are available only to gov't and institutions. On eBay the masks are listed at over $25 apiece. Unfortunately when doing dusty work one mask will only last for a day or less.
I started having trouble sourcing these in late January.
it turns out I have everything I need to manufacture small qty runs (100s) of effective masks at about $1.60ea. So I'm just going to do it to stock up my household for the duration. QC is my only concern, since I have to use a qualitative test (smell the bacon frying).
Care to provide a basic Google source that says N95 Surgical Respirators are made from pulp?
Okay, let me provide you another source or two.
Here's the 3M 1860/1860S N95 Surgical Respirator. FDA approved for hospital use in the US (also the standard one used). Approved by Health Canada in Canada. Approved by TGA in Australia. This is the light blue one you see on the news.
> K10S pulp is made from western red cedar that produces a soft fibre that makes it suitable for the final products made from it.
“It’s been tweaked over the years to come up with the right formula that allows it to go into the medical supplies,” Sampson said.
Your source indeed says: these materials are used.
But it never says they are listing all the materials that are used.
It could be that they mention it because those materials can touch the skin. I don't see anything that mentions the filtering technique/materials inside of those masks.
I also don't see how the materials are tweaked. So I don't think it's as easy to read the brochure and believe that they mention everything on it.
I guess the Polypropylene fibrids in the filter contains the K10S ( = the pulp )
What you said now is not what you said before. You literally claimed it was just the bag, lol:
> I'm no expert, but I am sure the only pulp used in a N95 respirator is the box they put the 10 or 20 masks in. They can easily replace that with a bag.
And I repeat:
> “It’s been tweaked over the years to come up with the right formula that allows it to go into the medical supplies,” Sampson said
Not every company is going to put their "secret sauce" online.
Just send an email to 3M to ask the question instead of trying to guess it.
Google can't solve everything. As an alternative, you could ask it on StackExchange.
Then Google can pick it up for you and you can have your nice link :p
And also, you are looking for "surgical masks N95 K10S" in Google. I googled the root question and that is: where is K10S used in Polypropylene , but you don't seem to grasp/accept it.
I already explained why it would be better to look that up...
This may be the pulp connection to the Polyurethane filter.
Filtering face-piece respirator having a face seal comprising a water-vapor-breathable layer Patent Assignee 3M INNOVATIVE PROPERTIES COMPANY (St. Paul, MN, US)
In discussing a way to take water vapour from exhaled breath away from the filter surface. If this is the case while the polyurethane is the primary material the pulp fibre is applied to it as a layer which may not appear in a spec sheet.
"In some embodiments, a face seal may consist only of a water-vapor-breathable layer and a wicking layer (that is located on the rearward side of at least a portion of the water-vapor-breathable layer), with no other layers being present. In other embodiments, other layers may be present in the face seal.
There are several general approaches to providing such a wicking layer, which approaches will be described herein in a non-limiting manner. In one approach, a fibrous wicking layer (e.g., a non-woven web, a woven or knitted fabric, and so on) can be comprised (e.g., generally, substantially, or completely) of fibers with “moderate” hydrophilicity. Materials that might be suitable for such fibers include e.g. certain nylons, polyesters, cellulose acetates, and so on. In another approach, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers (e.g., polyethylene, polypropylene, natural rubber, and so on), but with the web incorporating some portion of relatively hydrophilic fibers (e.g., cellulosic fibers, acrylic fibers comprising a significant amount of hydrophilic co-monomer, and so on). That is, any suitable blend of hydrophobic fibers and hydrophilic fibers can be used to arrive at the optimum balance of properties. In a variation of such approaches, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers but may further comprise hydrophilic particles of any suitable composition (e.g. hydrocolloids, WOOD PULP, starch particles, and so on). Conversely, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophilic fibers but may further comprise hydrophobic particles of any suitable composition."
This may be the pulp connection to the Polyurethane filter.
Filtering face-piece respirator having a face seal comprising a water-vapor-breathable layer Patent Assignee 3M INNOVATIVE PROPERTIES COMPANY (St. Paul, MN, US)
In discussing a way to take water vapour from exhaled breath away from the filter surface. If this is the case while the polyurethane is the primary material the pulp fibre is applied to it as a layer which may not appear in a spec sheet.
"In some embodiments, a face seal may consist only of a water-vapor-breathable layer and a wicking layer (that is located on the rearward side of at least a portion of the water-vapor-breathable layer), with no other layers being present. In other embodiments, other layers may be present in the face seal.
There are several general approaches to providing such a wicking layer, which approaches will be described herein in a non-limiting manner. In one approach, a fibrous wicking layer (e.g., a non-woven web, a woven or knitted fabric, and so on) can be comprised (e.g., generally, substantially, or completely) of fibers with “moderate” hydrophilicity. Materials that might be suitable for such fibers include e.g. certain nylons, polyesters, cellulose acetates, and so on. In another approach, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers (e.g., polyethylene, polypropylene, natural rubber, and so on), but with the web incorporating some portion of relatively hydrophilic fibers (e.g., cellulosic fibers, acrylic fibers comprising a significant amount of hydrophilic co-monomer, and so on). That is, any suitable blend of hydrophobic fibers and hydrophilic fibers can be used to arrive at the optimum balance of properties. In a variation of such approaches, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers but may further comprise hydrophilic particles of any suitable composition (e.g. hydrocolloids, WOOD PULP, starch particles, and so on). Conversely, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophilic fibers but may further comprise hydrophobic particles of any suitable composition."
and further
Enhancement of barrier fabrics with breathable films and of face masks and filters with novel fluorochemical electret reinforcing treatment
“In the late 1970s this lead inventor, as an R&D scientist with Johnson & Johnson Surgikos Company led a successful program to replace the glass fiber filter media with melt blown (MB) polypropylene (PP). To achieve 95% In vitro BFE, it was necessary to electrostatically charge the MB filter media (Wadsworth, Larry C. and Solomon P. Hersh, Raleigh, N.C., “Method of Making Fibrous Electrets,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,375,718, assigned to Surgikos, Inc., issued Mar. 8, 1983). Latex-bonded dry-laid and wet-laid nonwovens with fiber contents viscose rayon, PULP or blends of cellulosic and synthetic fibers were utilized for the outer and inner facings, with the filter media in the center. By the late 1980s, virtually all surgical FMs consisted of an electrostatically charged MB PP filter media core (Wadsworth, Larry C. and Solomon P. Hersh, Raleigh, N.C., “Method of Making Fibrous Electrets,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,375,718, assigned to Surgikos, Inc., issued Mar. 8, 1983; Kubik, Donald A. and Charles I. Davis, “Melt-Blown Fibrous Electrets,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,215,682, assigned to Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company, issued Aug. 5, 1980; Klasse, P. T. A. and Jan van Tumhout, “Method for Manufacturing an Electret Filter Media,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,588,537, issued May 13, 1986) with pigmented SB PP on the outside and un-pigmented (white) SB PP on the body side. In 1995 and 1997, Wadsworth and Tsai obtained patents, for much impr...
84 comments
[ 6.0 ms ] story [ 88.8 ms ] threadThis is a very good point. We really don't want China cutting us off right now.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3077428/ne...
Some claim the masks are deliberately faulty
"Alabama county received 5,000 rotted masks from national stockpile": https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/491015-alabama-coun...
It's actually kind of a terrible point, because they're completely different countries. The ones who are trying to buy masks from the US aren't the ones selling them to the US.
But export restrictions are also kind of silly. Why not just outbid the other guy for the masks? Then the higher price will bring more producers into the market faster, which is really the most important thing anyway.
Not always true.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/31/pence-task-force-co...
> Last week, a Trump administration official working to secure much-needed protective gear for doctors and nurses in the United States had a startling encounter with counterparts in Thailand.
> The official asked the Thais for help—only to be informed by the puzzled voices on the other side of the line that a U.S. shipment of the same supplies, the second of two so far, was already on its way to Bangkok.
...and then they stopped sending them over there.
If you already need more than you have, selling what you have is typically only done by mistake. Its the places that can make more than they need that are selling them.
Alternatively we can throw in the towel on the whole "nation of laws, not men" thing, and just let companies do what they want, but I'd rather not live in that cyberpunk dystopia waiting to happen.
Though the irony of the moment does strike me as humorous. The overall credibility of the Federal apparatus is at such an all time low, we've got multi-nationals doing foreign policymaking for them.
I don't know whether to laugh or weep.
https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/...
> China made half the world’s masks before the coronavirus emerged there. The government has been undertaking a massive mobilization of wartime proportions to expand its output since then. Daily production soared from about 10 million before the crisis to 116 million now, according to the latest number released late last month by China's National Development and Reform Commission.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
They make the machines that make the masks.
Also ventilators ( eg. Philips and many other European countries)
And a big chance that the vaccine is coming from Europe as well
And what would "nationalizing" them look like, anyway? You realize that they're a multinational corporation, right? You could nationalize the US part, but you'd lose the rest of them. Even solely for purposes of the respirators, the result might not be better than what they're giving you now.
The best I can do is wish her the best. I'm sorry.
Where does this press release state that?
It says the literal opposite:
"We look forward to working with FEMA to implement yesterday’s order."
Anyway there is a lot more information available as to what’s going on with Canadian orders and 3M Canada. Put it this way Canada has ordered 65M and 3M Canada and Canada both refuse to say how many 3M is providing in that order.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/...
The maximum penalty provided by the Defense Production Act is a $10,000 fine, or one year in prison, or both.
The government may also seek an injunction from a court of appropriate jurisdiction to prohibit the continuance of any violation of, or to enforce compliance with, the Defense Production Act, this part, or an official action.
I presume it's much simpler to avoid being accused of gouging and selling to countries which pay prices according to supply and demand.
They will comply at least that’s what their letter further down says
https://www.vancouverislandfreedaily.com/business/nanaimos-h...
• Straps – Thermoplastic Elastomer
• Nose Clip – Aluminum
• Nose foam - Polyurethane
• Filter – Polypropylene
• Shell – Polyester
• Coverweb - Polyester
Here's the datasheet for the 3M 1860 N95 Surgical Respirator (for hospital and medical use): https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1538979O/3m-disposable-r...
* Straps: Braided Polyisoprene
* Staples: Steel
* Nose Clip: Aluminium
* Nose Foam: Polyurethane Foam
* Filter: Polypropylene/Polyester
* Shell: Polypropylene
* Coverweb: Polypropylene
Here's another document from Honeywell stating the main material is "flexible non-woven polypropylene fabric" https://www.honeywell.com/en-us/newsroom/news/2020/03/n95-ma...
Here's the link to Wikipedia and I quote "The N95 mask requires a fine mesh of synthetic polymer fibers, also known as nonwoven polypropylene fabric,[5] which is produced through a highly specialized process called melt blowing that forms the inner filtration layer that filters out hazardous particles.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_mask
This should be a wake up call to Canada to stop being so dependent on exporting commodities. It's been this way for my entire life and has been a constant complaint in Canadian economic circles but for some reason Canada doesn't seem to want to diversify. Maybe this will change that attitude.
Pulp production is not a nameless commodity, it needs to be up to a certain spec for surgical masks, for example. Canada is the supplier for a great many US companies. Sure, the US could try to produce that speficic spec, but it would not be easy and would take precious weeks that the US cannot spare. If it could, production would just increase for respirators, but this has to be done instead because it takes too much time. And in that time, Canada will likely be able to set up production for the masks, actually. If I remember correctly 3M Canada does make filter media, so the expertise is there. It isn't rocket science either, it just takes time.
In a full scale economic war between the US and Canda, at least all Canadians will still have water and electricity.
That also means the actual machines for producing the masks, since Germany makes those machines. China uses them.
The ventilators for saving lives are also made by Germany.
Good luck with your short term way of thinking.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
There are other minor ones, but healthcare in Europe+ Canada seem to be ok.
Only a shortage of masks currently, where Trump is a blocker so exporting countries handle it case-by-case now.
Eg. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-09/germany-f...
> We’re not categorically against exports but want to understand what happens, because previously it was so that masks went not where they were most needed but where most was paid.
Submitters who break the site guidelines by editorializing that badly eventually lose their submission rights on HN. So there's that.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://globalnews.ca/news/6769162/canada-medical-supplies-c...
Here the EU has banned the export of masks unless the country's government approves (which is what Trump is doing) https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-eu-limit-exports...
Also not mentioned Russia and Taiwan also banned all export of masks.
Eg. From Germany : https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-09/germany-f...
> We’re not categorically against exports but want to understand what happens, because previously it was so that masks went not where they were most needed but where most was paid.
They are literally handling the problems the US/Trump is causing right now.
I expect more on HN
In the end though, Canada and every other country in the world should realize that the United States doesn't have friends, it has interests.
Do you not feel this is serious enough of a situation that it requires all the masks this American company makes to be sent to these hot spots? Should the US not try to save its own citizens lives above trying to be friends with Canada or South America?
Why doesn't Canada manufacture it's own masks?
That is most definitely not the fault of Canada to handle it better than the US.
Also, the chance that a non-American company will have a crucial piece of the puzzle for solving this is very big.
Good luck with your short-term way of thinking if other countries will put US on the last place on the list.
I expect more on HN
And you are forgetting one thing. Interests, as you described it, aren't making the US a top dog as it was.
It's already ( under Trump) deteriorating faster than I could have imagined. And his actions are making it worse. Others are already trying to fill in the void and Trump is making it easier for them.
This should leave you more worried than me if you only have "interests".
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
• Straps – Thermoplastic Elastomer
• Nose Clip – Aluminum
• Nose foam - Polyurethane
• Filter – Polypropylene
• Shell – Polyester
• Coverweb - Polyester
Here's another document from Honeywell stating the main material is "flexible non-woven polypropylene fabric" https://www.honeywell.com/en-us/newsroom/news/2020/03/n95-ma...
Here's the link to Wikipedia and I quote "The N95 mask requires a fine mesh of synthetic polymer fibers, also known as nonwoven polypropylene fabric,[5] which is produced through a highly specialized process called melt blowing that forms the inner filtration layer that filters out hazardous particles.[6]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N95_mask
And you are an expert? Basic Google just backed me up.
I don't know the answer. The only thing I do know is that a medical/surgical N95 mask is different from a standard N95 mask.
This would be reason enough to undermine your claim, according to me.
But as stated, I'm not an expert. A friend+client of mine in construction also has N95 masks and those are not valid for use in the hospital, he said.
Also basic Google backed me up :)
Ps. Thanks for trying to back up your claim with valid sources ;)!
I started having trouble sourcing these in late January.
Okay, let me provide you another source or two.
Here's the 3M 1860/1860S N95 Surgical Respirator. FDA approved for hospital use in the US (also the standard one used). Approved by Health Canada in Canada. Approved by TGA in Australia. This is the light blue one you see on the news.
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1538979O/3m-disposable-r...Here's the 3M 1804/1804S N95 Surgical Respirator (https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1547881O/3m-anz-psd-heal...). Also approved by FDA for hospital use. Same with Health Canada and Australian TGA. This is the white duckbill type you see on the news.
The wording seems to be that is literally used in surgical masks:
https://www.vancouverislandfreedaily.com/business/nanaimos-h...
> K10S pulp is made from western red cedar that produces a soft fibre that makes it suitable for the final products made from it.
“It’s been tweaked over the years to come up with the right formula that allows it to go into the medical supplies,” Sampson said.
Your source indeed says: these materials are used.
But it never says they are listing all the materials that are used.
It could be that they mention it because those materials can touch the skin. I don't see anything that mentions the filtering technique/materials inside of those masks.
I also don't see how the materials are tweaked. So I don't think it's as easy to read the brochure and believe that they mention everything on it.
I guess the Polypropylene fibrids in the filter contains the K10S ( = the pulp )
An indication to support this can be found here: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/8172035.html
( Search for K10S in the text and read the entire surrounding text)
As stated before, I'm not an expert.
So far I've shown that K10S is not used in N95 respirators which is the original statement.
I've shown evidence in good faith and you have not. None of your links makes reference to N95 Respirators.
Please provide a direct reference that K10S pulp is used in N95 Respirators.
What you said now is not what you said before. You literally claimed it was just the bag, lol:
> I'm no expert, but I am sure the only pulp used in a N95 respirator is the box they put the 10 or 20 masks in. They can easily replace that with a bag.
And I repeat:
> “It’s been tweaked over the years to come up with the right formula that allows it to go into the medical supplies,” Sampson said
Not every company is going to put their "secret sauce" online.
Just send an email to 3M to ask the question instead of trying to guess it.
https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/novec-us/support/contact-us/
Google can't solve everything. As an alternative, you could ask it on StackExchange.
Then Google can pick it up for you and you can have your nice link :p
And also, you are looking for "surgical masks N95 K10S" in Google. I googled the root question and that is: where is K10S used in Polypropylene , but you don't seem to grasp/accept it.
I already explained why it would be better to look that up...
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/9408424.html
In discussing a way to take water vapour from exhaled breath away from the filter surface. If this is the case while the polyurethane is the primary material the pulp fibre is applied to it as a layer which may not appear in a spec sheet.
"In some embodiments, a face seal may consist only of a water-vapor-breathable layer and a wicking layer (that is located on the rearward side of at least a portion of the water-vapor-breathable layer), with no other layers being present. In other embodiments, other layers may be present in the face seal.
There are several general approaches to providing such a wicking layer, which approaches will be described herein in a non-limiting manner. In one approach, a fibrous wicking layer (e.g., a non-woven web, a woven or knitted fabric, and so on) can be comprised (e.g., generally, substantially, or completely) of fibers with “moderate” hydrophilicity. Materials that might be suitable for such fibers include e.g. certain nylons, polyesters, cellulose acetates, and so on. In another approach, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers (e.g., polyethylene, polypropylene, natural rubber, and so on), but with the web incorporating some portion of relatively hydrophilic fibers (e.g., cellulosic fibers, acrylic fibers comprising a significant amount of hydrophilic co-monomer, and so on). That is, any suitable blend of hydrophobic fibers and hydrophilic fibers can be used to arrive at the optimum balance of properties. In a variation of such approaches, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers but may further comprise hydrophilic particles of any suitable composition (e.g. hydrocolloids, WOOD PULP, starch particles, and so on). Conversely, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophilic fibers but may further comprise hydrophobic particles of any suitable composition."
Filtering face-piece respirator having a face seal comprising a water-vapor-breathable layer Patent Assignee 3M INNOVATIVE PROPERTIES COMPANY (St. Paul, MN, US)
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/9408424.html
In discussing a way to take water vapour from exhaled breath away from the filter surface. If this is the case while the polyurethane is the primary material the pulp fibre is applied to it as a layer which may not appear in a spec sheet.
"In some embodiments, a face seal may consist only of a water-vapor-breathable layer and a wicking layer (that is located on the rearward side of at least a portion of the water-vapor-breathable layer), with no other layers being present. In other embodiments, other layers may be present in the face seal.
There are several general approaches to providing such a wicking layer, which approaches will be described herein in a non-limiting manner. In one approach, a fibrous wicking layer (e.g., a non-woven web, a woven or knitted fabric, and so on) can be comprised (e.g., generally, substantially, or completely) of fibers with “moderate” hydrophilicity. Materials that might be suitable for such fibers include e.g. certain nylons, polyesters, cellulose acetates, and so on. In another approach, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers (e.g., polyethylene, polypropylene, natural rubber, and so on), but with the web incorporating some portion of relatively hydrophilic fibers (e.g., cellulosic fibers, acrylic fibers comprising a significant amount of hydrophilic co-monomer, and so on). That is, any suitable blend of hydrophobic fibers and hydrophilic fibers can be used to arrive at the optimum balance of properties. In a variation of such approaches, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophobic fibers but may further comprise hydrophilic particles of any suitable composition (e.g. hydrocolloids, WOOD PULP, starch particles, and so on). Conversely, a fibrous wicking layer can be comprised of relatively hydrophilic fibers but may further comprise hydrophobic particles of any suitable composition."
and further
Enhancement of barrier fabrics with breathable films and of face masks and filters with novel fluorochemical electret reinforcing treatment
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2005/0079379.html
“In the late 1970s this lead inventor, as an R&D scientist with Johnson & Johnson Surgikos Company led a successful program to replace the glass fiber filter media with melt blown (MB) polypropylene (PP). To achieve 95% In vitro BFE, it was necessary to electrostatically charge the MB filter media (Wadsworth, Larry C. and Solomon P. Hersh, Raleigh, N.C., “Method of Making Fibrous Electrets,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,375,718, assigned to Surgikos, Inc., issued Mar. 8, 1983). Latex-bonded dry-laid and wet-laid nonwovens with fiber contents viscose rayon, PULP or blends of cellulosic and synthetic fibers were utilized for the outer and inner facings, with the filter media in the center. By the late 1980s, virtually all surgical FMs consisted of an electrostatically charged MB PP filter media core (Wadsworth, Larry C. and Solomon P. Hersh, Raleigh, N.C., “Method of Making Fibrous Electrets,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,375,718, assigned to Surgikos, Inc., issued Mar. 8, 1983; Kubik, Donald A. and Charles I. Davis, “Melt-Blown Fibrous Electrets,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,215,682, assigned to Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company, issued Aug. 5, 1980; Klasse, P. T. A. and Jan van Tumhout, “Method for Manufacturing an Electret Filter Media,” U.S. Pat. No. 4,588,537, issued May 13, 1986) with pigmented SB PP on the outside and un-pigmented (white) SB PP on the body side. In 1995 and 1997, Wadsworth and Tsai obtained patents, for much impr...