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Ask HN: Question about salary expectations, raises, and bonuses

5 points by jensv ↗ HN
Howdy,

What can one expect as a raise/bonus if you are happy with your employer and prefer not to hop between companies?

I work for a largish (200+ programmers) Canadian company as a software developer and it's nearly that time of the year for performance review and the accompanying raises.

Where do you turn to for accurate salary information? The rumor mill says that in recent years we can expect a 0-5% raise in salary depending on job performance and how well the company did that year. Does being a new graduate with less than a year of experience change anything? I haven't been working here for very long (~10 months) but become significantly more productive/valuable each week. For tasks which do not require intimate knowledge of the legacy codebase I feel I am at least as productive as most of the more senior developers on the team but my salary is still below the industry average.

According to the 2009 Alberta Wage and Salary Survey, (best resource I've found but still fairly vague) Albertans in the Computer Programmers and Interactive Media Developers occupational group earned from $16.83 to $113.22 an hour. The average wage was $38.17 an hour. Say I start at ~$25/hour. How much experience will I need before I can start to expect making the 'average salary'? Perhaps it is more of a meritocracy where whoever is the most productive is rewarded?

Another question: Word on the web is that companies like Google and Apple don't compensate well, but all evidence I've seen says otherwise. How to explain this discrepancy? It was only last week that a very large number of people on Reddit and HN were discussing how challenging it is to break 6 figures as a developer. Based on what I've seen the tech giants (Google, Microsoft, Apple et al) actually seem to offer the highest compensation in the industry. A handful of companies like Netflix do pay better, but the work environment seems to be much less relaxed.

I have no plans to leave but more information is better than less. Thanks!

10 comments

[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 25.0 ms ] thread
ffumarola
I can't speak to a lot of your direct questions. However, when researching salaries of your company and trying to determine if you are being paid market rate, I've always found Glass Door useful.

It's all user generated and breaks the pay down into salary, commission, bonuses, etc.

http://www.glassdoor.com

jensv
Glassdoor is great but seems less useful when the city/company is small and lack data points. Large companies like Microsoft and Google are like a revolving door (in the sense that many people come and go) and many employees who are willing to share compensation information.
ffumarola
I worked for a company around the size of yours (~150) and they had enough data points to give me a ballpark figure about pay.

Though it's definitely not the same as the big guys, to your point.

Wish I had more constructive feedback! Sorry.

us
Every employer look at performance differently. Beyond the ability to code as a software developer, what other personality and characteristics do you display that meet other requirements that make you invaluable beyond your ability to write code. Writing code is one thing. Writing great code is another. Then add onto that the ability to contribute beyond just writing code is something entirely different. When you add all those factors together, raises and how much they increase vary a LOT even with known ranges within a given company much less comparison within an entire industry in any given city.
jensv
I think you are right. I've worked hard to keep a list of ways I've added value to the corporation. My most valuable contribution (from a dollars and cents perspective) has not been any bug fix or feature but rather stumbling across a program/organisation which subsidizes partnerships between academia and industry. We're hoping to hire 4 graduate students for a new team so if we offer a salary of $50k the company only shoulders half the amount. The potential savings of 100k is well over what the company is paying me....
brudgers
>"How much experience will I need before I can start to expect making the 'average salary'?"

Assuming that "average" refers to median, half of all people earn less and therefore there is a significant chance that you may never earn it.

ohashi
That's not necessarily true. If salary increases over time, you would expect him to hit median halfway through his/her career, on average (assuming rate of new programmers joining and old ones leaving is about the same). Of course, if more are joining and the population is increasing, s/he could hit it a lot sooner assuming s/he doesn't drop out.
brudgers
I guess the truth value depends on what one considers "a significant chance."
salemh
Significant bumps in salary (across most spectrum's, not just programming: BA's, PM's, etc.) typically occurs when leaving for another company, not staying with the firm for small percentage increases over 5-10 years. The programmers I found making the least amount who "seemed" to be as or more competent ($85k vs $110k as an example) normally were at large shops for 7-15 years.

However, a few years of experience at a large shop can facilitate that jump.

Related discussion on negotiation / salaries: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2201407

petervandijck
In my experience: the only way to get significant salary increases (say, from 80 to 120, or from 120 to 150), is to change employers, or being promoted into a different role, with the very real possibility of you leaving (ie. being "re-hired").

It's almost impossible to get a significant raise while staying in the same position.

Salary is NOT based on merit.

In your case, your best chance is to get an actual job offer from another employer, be prepared to walk away from your current job, and then talk to your boss and tell him you have a much better offer and are leaving, unless he can promote you into a new position (you can just make that up), where you make much more.