HN Explorer

Poll HN: Who do you support in the 2008 Elections?

3 points by markbao ↗ HN
Vote up to one candidate you support(ed) in the 2008 elections, and comment as to why.

The 'Hacker News' part: talk about their views and actions regarding technology and the economy. They will most likely affect technology and the economy in some way, thus affecting startups.

27 comments

[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 69.5 ms ] thread
byrneseyeview
As interesting as this could be, it is 1) US-centric -- not everybody cares about our menagerie of weirdos, and 2) probably not Hacker News, since I think politics has been implicitly or explicitly banned.

That said, I am eagerly looking forward to another Obama wank festival, in which mynamishere and I will get modded down to -20 for claiming that the sky is blue.

cperciva
US-centric -- not everybody cares about our menagerie of weirdos

I'm not sure about that. Most of the world is quite interested in "international news", and the US election is one of the more important international news stories of this year. When I was in Oxford in 2004, half of the college was awake until the final results came in around 7AM.

probably not Hacker News

I absolutely agree here.

byrneseyeview
Well, I guess it would be interesting to some places, e.g. people in those countries would want to know if the US military will be in Iraq as McCain suggests, or if we'll invade Pakistan per Obama's promises (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08...).

But how are changes in US domestic policy going to affect startups in Amsterdam or Dublin?

jfarmer
If it becomes harder to innovate here in the US because of tax law, labor law, immigration law, or whatever other laws, startups in other countries better be paying attention -- it means more opportunity.
xlnt
Except that most Other Countries have worse laws, more socialism, and bigger government.
jfarmer
Be that as it may, domestic laws in the US are still relevant to companies and startups operating overseas.

The opposite is true, too.

colinplamondon
There's a difference between invading a country and using surgical strikes to decapitate the senior leadership of a terrorist group that has bombed places from Istanbul to London to Jakarta.

I don't think most of Europe would be against a limited attack like Obama has hypothesized, nor would most of the rest of the world. The main difference is that Obama would represent a shift to a more inclusive foreign policy, and 'coalitions' put together under his Administration might actually be meaningful. Despite all the cries to the contrary for the sake of the news cycle, the rest of the presidential candidates, past and present (Clinton, McCain, Edwards, Romney) have all stated at various times that they would do the same.

As an aside, the US is already attacking Pakistani territory with Predator drones, it's just that it's with tacit permission from the Pakistani government. I read one report that alikened it to how the Vietnam War spread to Cambodia and Laos secretly.

Even when used as a flippant example to provide a counter-point to McCain's hawkishness, the Pakistani flareup only servers to further dilute the real issues and contrasts at play in this campaign.

aswanson
half of the college was awake until the final results came in around 7AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and conjecture there were not many pleased (Oxies?) on campus that dawn.

icey
Please add an option for "Not hacker news"
Prrometheus
Please add an option for "this is pretty much the last thing I want to see on Hacker News, next to lolcats and porn".
xlnt
separately they fail. together they win. we need lolcats porn
xlnt
McCain is opposed terrorists more than Obama. And more trustyworthy on Israel and Iran issues.

When people say they want to kill us, it's stupid not to take that seriously.

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vaksel
What's it like being such a coward that you are afraid of a few goat farmers?

What's it like being so unpatriotic that you don't think the CIA/FBI/NSA and hundreds of other agencies won't be able to stop terrorist plots?

What's it like having to check under your bed for monsters?

hugh
The above moronic talking-point exchange is exactly why we don't want to see political debates on this site.
xlnt
Could you explain what was moronic about my comment, or withdraw your insult from applying to me?
colinplamondon
Terrorism has always been around, from the anarchists around the turn of the century . 40,000 people die every year from car accidents, only 3,000 died on 9/11. The fact is, terrorism isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. It's an issue, but it's not a big issue. It should be death with in the same way that it was dealt with during the Clinton administration- as a crime problem.

Are there people that want to kill Americans? Yes. Are there white supremacist Americans that want to kill Americans? Yes! There are lots of people that want to kill lots of people, and that's a problem. However, it shouldn't be the driving force behind our foreign and domestic policy- that just leads to the erosion of civil liberties. Those who would give up freedom for security deserve neither.

thrill
I've always been interested in the modeling of polling, so I've recently developed a website implementing a model that I think will provide a better online polling methodology than simply allowing ballot stuffing, by requiring a minimal opportunity cost - being online also means it's (hopefully) more inclusive than the hit-and-miss technique of telephone polling.

It's wide open since I've truly just gone live with it (only one participant so far!)

Hopefully it'll be a good hack.

It's at http://www.voteearlyvoteoften.us

xlnt
what do you do about sample bias?
thrill
there's always sample bias - estimating and adjusting for it is the tricky part of course. The (statistical) "correction" for it is to insure the polling crosses all boundaries - and that's probably impossible - I know for example I have never particpated in a telephone poll - the interruption pisses me off for one thing - and I know many others like me in that regard. I have been called - and even answered some questions - but it rapidly became obvious to me that the wording of teh questions was tilted in some manner - so I declined to futher play that game. Being online certainly targets a certain audience - however the model discourages excessive influence (unless you've got deep pockets), and yet incurs such a small opportunity cost that anyone who desired can easily participate. My untested hypothesis is that anyone who makes an effort (that is minimal but more major than simply clicking) to participate when there is an opportunity cost will likely actually go vote for real - those are whom I actually want to sample.

The only true test will be to compare after the election.

hugh
Am I reading this correctly? I have to pay you a dollar to participate in your poll?

Good luck, but I think you're dreaming if you think you'll get many people to fall for that one.

thrill
Well, you're probably correct - while the top 10 political action committees spent about $120 million, gathered from a relatively small donor list, in 2004 to get their version of truth made into law, asking actual voters to spend an entire dollar as some sort of opportunity cost, with the thought that it might be the event that promotes an honesty in online polling, is quite likely simply a bridge too far.
wheels
Sorry, just adding, "It's hacker news because..." doesn't make it true. Through a long enough chain of logic I can relate just about anything to Danny DeVito.
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vaksel
Noone really, they are all the same and none of them ever keep campaign promises. + its not like my vote will actually matter.

If I go Republican, my state will go democrat with a 15 point lead. If I go Democrat my state will go democrat with a 15 point lead. If I go Liberterian my state will go democrat with a 15 point lead. If I stay at home my state will go democrat with a 15 point lead.

Voting is pretty useless unless you live in a swing state.

hugh
Please keep in mind: the reason why politics stories are quasi-banned (or at least strongly discouraged) here is not just that they're not relevant to technology/startups/etc, but also because political debates are boring, repetitive, and have the tendency to turn otherwise-intelligent people into belligerent morons.
rplevy
Obama. Two words: network neutrality. McCain would end network neutrality. I recommend checking out Obama's comprehensive technological plan to open up government to grassroots democratic processes. Also see Lawrence Lessig's arguments for why he supports Obama.