The end of any pretense that “One country, two systems” means anything real. But for coronavirus this would be the biggest news of the year. Millions of people have had any hope of democracy taken from them.
There is quite an important omission in this article (which is a bit too emotional without enough focus on factual info...) about the whole issue.
What is happening revolves around article 23 of HK's Basic Law (which governs its autonomous status):
"The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organisations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organisations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organisations or bodies"
On the other hand, the counter argument is that they have failed to do that in the last 23 years.
Which, I think, explains this excerpt from the article:
"“The social unrest last year showed that the Hong Kong government was unable to handle passing [national security legislation] on its own,” said Ng, a Beijing loyalist who has for years pushed for a similar law."
So I read this as saying that the HK government is in effect in breach of the Basic Law and thus the Central Government will step in.
Well, the HK government previously attempted to implement article 23 about 10 years ago and backed off due to demonstrations, etc.
At some point it can be argued not implementing the Basic Law should lead to 'corrective measures'.
The Sino-British Declaration calls for the Basic Law to be followed, so article 23 should be implemented.
It's all largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, though. HK is a territory of the PRC. No foreign country has any say in Chinese domestic issues. Following treaties to the letter only leads to 2047, but the end result is the same however you look at it.
This is all stirred up because it is seen as a tool to cause trouble to China. It's a show.
I'm quite sad for the people living in Hong Kong, to be stripped from their autonomy by means like dragging out the pro-democratic party members and "voting" for a person who is pro-CCP, and claiming that to be a legitimate.
Had it been a clean democratic process to end up in that, then so be it, but having things go in this kind of a fashion is truly terrible.
I truly hope they can still turn the situation over, and wish them all the best in their attempts - I'm lucky to live in a country where I do not worry about these kind of things, so it is easy to talk from my ivory tower, but damn I would be scared to live in a place where democratic process can be dismantled just because it is an inconvenience for someone else :(
This is actually great news, China is returning to a pre-western interference/corruption state.
In the end it seems the phony protests and other types of agitation funded by western intelligence agencies and capital weren't successful.
99% sure China's remaining illegal drug problem is further reduced thanks to this news. The criminals will now have to peddle their garbage elsewhere if all goes according to plan.
>you're delusional to think that the western intelligence agencies provided anything more than a spark to pre-existing fuel.
Sad state of historical knowledge that pointing out that western intelligence and corps pumped a large % of the world's drugs through this port for many decades is considered trolling.
If China started funding the alt-right, I guess your quote would apply here in the US as well, correct? Just a "spark"?
>This is actually great news, China is returning to a pre-western interference/corruption state.
>In the end it seems the phony protests and other types of agitation funded by western intelligence agencies and capital weren't successful.
>99% sure China's remaining illegal drug problem is further reduced thanks to this news. The criminals will now have to peddle their garbage elsewhere if all goes according to plan.
>Hopefully Taiwan is next...
Is there any proof these protests were foreign funded? From my understanding this was a grassroots democracy movement.
The thing that made Hong Kong successful was that it was a financial hub. That kind of requires trust in a system, so that's going to go away. China has significantly devalued what should have been one of their best resources because they couldn't take criticism and leave a city alone.
The western nations have this weird fascination with Hong Kong. It was basically unbridled capitalism over there, and westerners lived above the law among the local peasants.
The western nations should give Visas to Hong Kong residents, to get them to immigrate over.
That way, they can bring with them their delicious Cantonese cuisine, dim sum restaurants, and the rest. And start more Chinese restaurants in the west.
Oh wait.. the people in western nations can’t tell the difference between regular Hong Kong people, and those from China. And will accuse these Hong Kong people of eating bats. Ok, well, scratch that idea. You’re on your own over there.
The citizens of Hong Kong need a new domicile, perhaps Tsushima Island between Japan and Korea. In any case, somewhere where they can continue with the rule of law. There is no way that the economy of Hong Kong can thrive under the (non existent) laws of mainland China.
Hong Kong’s economy is built on its (arguably at least economically) exploitative relationship with China. More improbable even than the successful implementation of a relocation plan (to N. Ireland, Tsushima Island, or whatever) is that China would allow this new Hong Kong to have any economic relationship with the Mainland. It has factored in the economic cost already, and has decided that the tradeoff of having a free and democratic Chinese city is too much. As Chip Tsao said on television recently,⁰ the Zhongnanhai is using ‘bottom line thinking’—they have decided they can do without a window on the West, and so will neither act to save the other one nor allow the creation of a new one.
If Reunion and Mauritius can make a go of things in the middle of nowhere I'm pretty sure the people of Hong Kong can do equally as well, with or without China. However, having a reliable rule of law would be the big advantage that Hong Hong can bring to the table as no one, not even mainland Chinese, trust the legal system of China.
Particularly this matters in the finance sector where Hong Kong has plenty of expertise but it requires a solid legal foundation which Hong Kong now lacks. This can't be done overnight but Hong Kong should certainly start making a plan B. It's the only way they can expect to keep Beijing at bay.
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[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 60.9 ms ] threadWhat is happening revolves around article 23 of HK's Basic Law (which governs its autonomous status):
"The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region shall enact laws on its own to prohibit any act of treason, secession, sedition, subversion against the Central People's Government, or theft of state secrets, to prohibit foreign political organisations or bodies from conducting political activities in the Region, and to prohibit political organisations or bodies of the Region from establishing ties with foreign political organisations or bodies"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Basic_Law_Article_23
Of course, the key in that text is "on its own".
On the other hand, the counter argument is that they have failed to do that in the last 23 years.
Which, I think, explains this excerpt from the article:
"“The social unrest last year showed that the Hong Kong government was unable to handle passing [national security legislation] on its own,” said Ng, a Beijing loyalist who has for years pushed for a similar law."
So I read this as saying that the HK government is in effect in breach of the Basic Law and thus the Central Government will step in.
It couldn't be clearer that if anything HK wants nothing to do with China.
This is a conclusion which definitely can be argued. Plenty of people point out to the roots of unrest coming from Beijing.
There could be determination that Sino-British Joint Declaration was violated by Beijing, with corresponding corrective measures from UN members.
Unfortunately, China has clearly and publicly stated that they consider the Declaration non-binding and have no intention of following it.
> corresponding corrective measures from UN members
Unfortunately, China has a permanent seat on the UNSC and so can veto any resolution against them.
But others may think differently and act accordingly.
> has a permanent seat on the UNSC and so can veto
Russia has a permanent seat. And is under sanctions. Not even strongest possible - could be worse.
At some point it can be argued not implementing the Basic Law should lead to 'corrective measures'.
The Sino-British Declaration calls for the Basic Law to be followed, so article 23 should be implemented.
It's all largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, though. HK is a territory of the PRC. No foreign country has any say in Chinese domestic issues. Following treaties to the letter only leads to 2047, but the end result is the same however you look at it.
This is all stirred up because it is seen as a tool to cause trouble to China. It's a show.
Had it been a clean democratic process to end up in that, then so be it, but having things go in this kind of a fashion is truly terrible.
I truly hope they can still turn the situation over, and wish them all the best in their attempts - I'm lucky to live in a country where I do not worry about these kind of things, so it is easy to talk from my ivory tower, but damn I would be scared to live in a place where democratic process can be dismantled just because it is an inconvenience for someone else :(
In the end it seems the phony protests and other types of agitation funded by western intelligence agencies and capital weren't successful.
99% sure China's remaining illegal drug problem is further reduced thanks to this news. The criminals will now have to peddle their garbage elsewhere if all goes according to plan.
Hopefully Taiwan is next...
Sad state of historical knowledge that pointing out that western intelligence and corps pumped a large % of the world's drugs through this port for many decades is considered trolling.
If China started funding the alt-right, I guess your quote would apply here in the US as well, correct? Just a "spark"?
>In the end it seems the phony protests and other types of agitation funded by western intelligence agencies and capital weren't successful.
>99% sure China's remaining illegal drug problem is further reduced thanks to this news. The criminals will now have to peddle their garbage elsewhere if all goes according to plan.
>Hopefully Taiwan is next...
Is there any proof these protests were foreign funded? From my understanding this was a grassroots democracy movement.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Today it is just one more financial hub and manufacturing centre out of many.
It just isn't important any more. Its survival or not is pretty much irrelevant to both the West and China.
The western nations should give Visas to Hong Kong residents, to get them to immigrate over.
That way, they can bring with them their delicious Cantonese cuisine, dim sum restaurants, and the rest. And start more Chinese restaurants in the west.
Oh wait.. the people in western nations can’t tell the difference between regular Hong Kong people, and those from China. And will accuse these Hong Kong people of eating bats. Ok, well, scratch that idea. You’re on your own over there.
0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtom_T9-g08
Particularly this matters in the finance sector where Hong Kong has plenty of expertise but it requires a solid legal foundation which Hong Kong now lacks. This can't be done overnight but Hong Kong should certainly start making a plan B. It's the only way they can expect to keep Beijing at bay.