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Ask HN: I'm being ripped off by a charity fund raiser. What should I do?

10 points by jv22222 ↗ HN
There's a user who signed up for my webapp Pluggio. They signed up via the paypal free trial subscription route which unlocks 100% of the features for free for the trial period.

During the signup process it makes it perfectly clear that they are signing up to a paypal subscription and that they will be charged if they don't cancel. It also sends an email 3 days before payment is taken as a reminder that they are about to be charged.

The user did not cancel the trial and when it came round to the end of the trial, paypal tried to take money from their account 3 times. The first 2 times paypal tried to get the $9.95 there was some kind of issue with the users account (no funds), so paypal skipped the payment (and my app extended access by 5 days for each skipped payment).

Then on the third try paypal was able to successfully take the $9.95 from the users account for 30 days access.

The next day the user filed a dispute with paypal claiming that the services were not as described.

Paypal put a hold on the money and asked me to refund the $9.95 out of my own pocket after which point they released the money back to me.

I decided to let it slide and and also let the user have the 30 days access that the $9.95 gave them (even though they filed a complaint and got the money back).

Today, that 30 day period came to an end and they lost access to pluggio.

Today, the same user signed up for a new account with Pluggio. This time they registered with a completely new email address so they could once again avail of the full paypal free trial status.

If they had used their existing account a payment would have been made, as there is only one free trial allowed per registered email address.

Now they are back in full access mode with another active paypal subscription.

To top it all off, after a little research, I have discovered that they are a working member of a well respected charity.

I have decided the best course of action is to do nothing until I get some salient advise!

So, what would you do under these circumstances? All thoughts welcome!

9 comments

[ 13.5 ms ] story [ 330 ms ] thread
ecommando
I run subscription services, and in my terms of service, they must accept to allow all details of any dispute to be made public, including names, telephone numbers, and emails.

If you do this, and give them ample warning, most "dirtbags" will turn tail and run, fearing exposure with validating info being made public.

On the other hand, you could take the initiative and file a fraud claim against the user with Paypal, which would freeze their accounts for up to 30 days (unless terms have changed).

cheers

jv22222
Oh wow that all sounds very drastic. I just want to be amicable if at all possible...! But thanks very much for the advice.

Have you ever had to call any one out on that?

noonespecial
You know the charity, you know the person. If they are using the account at all in the business of their job at the charity, simply call their immediate supervisor and ask them to please stop abusing your service.

You could also twist the knife a bit and suggest that maybe they could have a free account donated if they just stop abusing the trial accounts, submit a polite written request and then provide a receipt. (Which you can write off as a charitable donation.) Situation resolved, scumbag humiliated, good deed done, tax write off included.

rcfox
I looked at your app very briefly, and it sounds like it might make more sense to give one free trial per Twitter account instead of per email address.
mikiem
This person will never be a profitable customer. They will cost you far more in time than they will generate in income. Get rid of them and move on.

We have a recurring revenue model and only after learning this over and over that we are now very quick to cut our losses when we see this kind of abuse or "cleverness". 10 bucks ain't worth your time to mess around with this joker. They will do this again, and again. They might even email you to ask for a discount on the 10 bucks they are trying to get around paying you.

Good luck!

vacri
This is the crux of it. Either give them a free account (possibly with benefits to you described above) or stop them/lock them out. The chance of converting this customer into a valid one is low enough that it's not worth your mental overhead dealing with them further.
FirstHopSystems
Non-profit doesn't mean no profit. If your service can provide value to them, they should purchase the app. Treat people how you want to be treated. Somthing that this charity doesn't make clear to everyone that works for them I don't think a policy of trying to game the system is honorable or...charitable.
ScottWhigham
I guess I was just sort of surprised that this was a post. This happens to every single person/company who sells products, whether on the web or in person. You will always have a cat and mouse game between "potential customers" and your business model. I can't remember the various stories through the years but it reminds me of when a guy bought loads of Jello to earn free flights (I think that's what it was?) because he calculated that it was a great opportunity. It "wasn't in the spirit of the promotion" but it wasn't against the rules. The promo was, of course, canceled.

The point is that you have to have a TOS that gives you a certain latitude to deal with things like this at your discretion - something similar to "We reserve to cancel any account at any time for any reason".

KI would also suggest you start putting in IP address controls/ability/logic. Something like "If there are two accounts from this same IP address within the past 30 days that have both accessed the freemium subscription yet have not converted to premium, do not allow a new freemium signup from that IP within x days." - or whatever. Just throwing out ideas.

Surprised this is the first time this has happened to you.

tnorthcutt
If you can, just call them. I have a story:

I'm involved with a rather large online community (I help with ad sales). As with any such community with lots of discussion forum activity, people sometimes say inappropriate things. A few years ago, someone on the site was being particularly annoying, and called the owner something like an "insufferable jackass" (I don't recall the exact phrase, but that's close enough). So, the owner looked him up, called him at work, and started the conversation with "Hi, I'm the person you called an insufferable jackass." The guy was immediately apologetic (and very embarrassed), and that was the end of the problem.

All that to say that for many people, there's a huge disconnect between real life and the internet. Just call them up, be human, and make the connection for them. I bet they'll be apologetic, and might even pay for your service.

If that doesn't work, you can always talk to their supervisor.