Ask HN: Open-source devs&users using closed source OSes, could you explain why?

5 points by LockAndLol ↗ HN
Just got through Lunduke's "Linux sucks 2020" video [0] and even if it might be in jest, he brought up a good point that many people promoting linux, presenting linux stuff, working in opensource or contributing to it, use closed-source OSes. I'm not trying to bash anybody, it's just genuine curiosity as to why.

0: https://open.lbry.com/@Lunduke:e/LinuxSucks2020:b?t=3215

11 comments

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Because while I enjoy the philosophy behind open source and use, and even occasionally contribute to OSS projects, I'm not a zealot. Theres still plenty of software that only runs on proprietary systems I want to use (games are a bug one, but you'd be suprised how much dev software only runs windows). Hell even mant linux systems likely have something proprietary on it, even if it's just firmware for some wireless or graphics device.
> I'm not a zealot

Why do you think running an open-source OS has something to do with zeal?

> you'd be suprised how much dev software only runs windows

Really depends on what you're developing, what for and in which language.

> Hell even mant linux systems likely have something proprietary on it, even if it's just firmware for some wireless or graphics device.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're making here. Quite a bit of hardware does indeed only have closed-source drivers and there is simply no alternative, but why would that be a reason to use a closed-source OS? I'm not understanding the connection.

> Really depends on what you're developing, what for and in which language.

And? That doesnt change the fact that it's a valid reason from using closed-source operating systems, even if you're involved in other open source development and advocacy.

Ok it appears I made of mistake on extrapolating your criticism of the use of close-sourced operating systems to apply to closed sources software in generally, however from your profile you appear to be one such zealot as I mentioned.

> Closed or obfuscated? Virus!

So according to you any of the aforementioned proprietary firmware is somehow a "virus".

> That doesnt change the fact that it's a valid reason from using closed-source operating systems

True.

> So according to you any of the aforementioned proprietary firmware is somehow a "virus".

It's a joke a colleague made and I found it funny. I do work in closed source myself.

"Open source" is primarily a coding phenomenon.

But an operating system is about more than just code. It is the central component of a computing ecosystem. And producing a viable, productive ecosystem requires much more than just open source code. It requires design, implementation, incentive and marketing.

If code was all that was needed, Linux distros should be dominate by now. Instead, after 30 years of effort by some of the best and brightest and billions of lines of code later and the result is --- a big yawn from the general computing public.

But, but, but Android. Well, Android isn't totally "open source" now is it? Key pieces of the ecosystem are not really "open" at all. And these key nuggets capture the incentive that propels the design, implementation and marketing forward.

Bottom line --- it takes more than an engine to produce a best selling car. And likewise, it takes more than charity, good intentions, free labor and open source to produce a truly viable and popular operating system.

I mean... a response to the actual question would've been nice.
My answer should be obvious. They are using what they feel best addresses their overall needs. And like the general computing public, their needs extend beyond the availability of source code.
Windows vs Mac vs OS OSs is what you’re talking about. If you’re a gamer - Linux is no go. If you’re a developer, macOS is more often used than _anything_ else. If you’re not trying to benefit from any well made commercial software then OS OSs are terrible. CS software is almost never optimized for OS OSs.

Much of what’s OS is not delightful to use unless you’re in the terminal. It’s much better now than 5 years ago. Simple things like watching videos and listening to music requires proper OS configuration because of codecs not being free as in freedom. There’s more annoyances, so to sum it up, nothing available for Linux that has a GUI is enticing to me. Whereas many native Mac apps are simply amazing.

Can't speak much about the gaming aspect and I don't know if Mac fares much better.

> CS software is almost never optimized for OS OSs.

CS = Computer science, right? May I ask what kind of optimizations and which software you're talking about.

> Simple things like watching videos and listening to music requires proper OS configuration because of codecs not being free as in freedom.

That really depends on the distro. Ubuntu, Pop!OS and some others too come with non-open drivers and software installed or show a dialog on first use asking users whether they want to install those things. The barrier is low enough for my non-tech friends and mother to understand. Your experience might be a little dated.

> nothing available for Linux that has a GUI is enticing to me

Hmm... that's a pity. They are quite simple and fast to use.

Thanks for the response

I find Linux much better and less annoying than Windows, although maybe that is because I use and prefer command-line stuff a lot rather than GUI, and don't watch videos much on my computer.

Well, I suppose is good that people who do not like Linux will be able to use Windows or Mac OS X instead, since some people will prefer that.

But some software is written for all three common operating systems, and some software is written for older computers or VMs which can then be executed in modern computers by emulation. (For example, there are many good free NES/Famicom games, such as We Are Hejickle, and Gruniozerca (a series of three games so far), and NES/Famicom emulation is available for many kind of computer systems.) Some companies will write software for Windows, but will also ensure working with Wine and advertise the compatibility with Wine, too. (And, of course, there are many web apps, too, these days.)

I do enthusiastically use Linux in the scenario where it is comparatively strongest, that is, on computers without screens.