Ask HN: I implemented the life I designed: perfect but I feel lost. What now?

92 points by adv0r ↗ HN
Thanks to a mix of luck, hard work, high energy, study, drive, and self-discipline, I achieved most of the things I wanted out of life so far. I got to a point in my life where I'm free from debt, free from mortgage, free from bosses, free from clients, and financially independent. I'm healthy, I live in one of the world most beautiful cities, loved by my family, surrounded by good friends, happily married with a kid and a dog. I travel, take pictures, hike, meditate, read. I got the full pack. Yet I feel lost.

I'm 33 and I feel I am now wasting productive years, setting slightly more challenging goals week after week, chasing a moving target, and never actually getting it. I feel I have way too much freedom, too many choices, and feel paralyzed.

What should I do? I am not the kind of person who can keep living like this forever... I feel like I realized (most of) my dreams, but not fulfilled a real hardcore purpose/mission.

How do I find meaning? What should I spend most of my time on?

This time I'd like to start really pouring my soul into something that can provide meaning to my life, without rushing into the next app/side project/hustle/startup to temporarily calm my curiosity.

help?

178 comments

[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 225 ms ] thread
Would probably pursue religion/spirituality at this point, but you are older than I am so I'm not sure if my advice holds much credence
Some research says that helping others brings much more meaning to life. Consider https://www.effectivealtruism.org/.
True, finding purpose by helping others will help you figuer out where you fit in this world. It's seems like you are one of the few that can plan,execute and accomplish. I would look at ways you can work toward accomplishing goals bigger than yourself. It will help you immensely.
+1 We're social animals after all. If nothing else, just spend a month learning about human psychology and motivation.
thanks, I love practical advice, accompanied by an URL ;)
Are you sure you actually implemented the life you wanted or what was expected from you? Sounds like you had a checklist/recipe for life and you went with it.

The good thing is you have so many doors open now. Do whatever. You're young enough to pick up any hobby or career. Don't think about whether it's financially worth doing or if you're on some "mission" or "purpose". Don't think about whether it's safe or unpopular.

Sometimes the most fulfilling things are inherently worthless. Learn an instrument, buy a motorcycle, make a painting, become a scuba instructor, run a marathon, try drugs, move to another country, sit at a park/cafe and talk with people - you get the picture. You'll find something that clicks, just get out of your checklist view of life.

> Sounds like you had a checklist/recipe for life and you went with it.

Yep, tried to follow a mix of passion and checklists.

> Do whatever.

love this. This is also the problem itself. I can do anything. But what will I miss out if I do x instead of y?

> Learn an instrument, buy a motorcycle, make a painting, become a scuba instructor, run a marathon, try drugs, move to another country, sit at a park/cafe and talk with people - you get the picture.

The instrument sounds good. I. did run a marathon, bought a motorcycle (and a sailboat), I can't paint, lived in 6 countries, drugs scary the shit out of me after teenage THC-related panic attacks.

Give me more.

> You'll find something that clicks, just get out of your checklist view of life.

Hahaha, some friend call me the "list man"... they also made a drawing of me holding a checklist at my wedding :

Take those lists of yours and burn them. Find the files you rely on to plan, and rm the crap out of them.

Be here and now. Talk to people you normally wouldn't talk to. Do things without needing justifications. Be an absolute clown for a day, or just do something really crazy (ie. involuntarily funny) without justifying it to anybody. Notice what piques your curiosity and engagement, and pursue some whims of fancy. Notice variations of feelings and how they play with the rest of mind-body system and vica versa.

I think I know your problem (source: achieved something similar like you few years ago, had a similar 'crises' like yours, and now I've a better grip at life).

So here's my very simple, steeped in wisdom, two word advice: dream bigger.

When you reach the top of the mountain, the only Zen you will find is the Zen you brought with you. Meaning: you must find fulfillment within yourself and not in outside things or accomplishments.
I'm kind of sick of myself, honestly.
That seems like a good place to start. Figure out why and what it would take to correct.
Any tips on how to get started on this?
Not really. I think one reason koans are general and kind of vague is that everyone's specifics are different and advice that works for some people may not work for everyone and may be exactly wrong for some.

Once, my then girlfriend was telling me that she was having trouble at work and always felt bad asking people for help. I gave her advice that had really helped me - which was to not worry about it and ask, ask, ask for help! It's the most efficient way, and all that.

My natural inclination is to never ask for help and figure it out myself. That can wind up taking me ten times as long to figure stuff out, so for me, really pushing to ask for help balances my natural tendencies and, if I try to ask for what seems like lots and lots of help, it'll wind up being about right.

My then girlfriend, on the other hand, was already inclined to ask for help. She was rightly worried that she was annoying other people and asking for too much help and I, though well meaning, gave her exactly the wrong advice and pushed her to keep doing exactly the wrong thing. The advice she needed was the exact opposite of what I needed. This is a specific example of how you can't really give advice to people without understanding them and their problems.

To go back to koans (which I quite like) - if you meet the Buddha, kill him. Meaning: you can't listen to other people to find enlightenment, it has to come from within you. Other people cannot tell you what you need to know, only you can do that.

And, of course, I'm not an enlightened guru living a perfect life or anything. I try my best. I think about problems and take steps to solve them.

Do what all people who achieved personal goals do and that's charity. Either with money or time or perhaps both. Will give you a fuller meaning to life.
Donate all your time and money to the abolition of the carceral state
Once you’ve conquered Maslow’s original hierarchy of needs, dig into his final need that he added later in life. Achieve not for yourself but for your community or your world. Transcend the self, and feel that higher order need.

As another commenter mentioned, altruistic endeavors are a good choice. Even things like being a Boy Scout leader can be hugely fulfilling of that broader need.

This. This is the thing that I have discovered gives back a sense of fulfillment like nothing else.

My wife and I went through an extremely rough patch in our marriage where we considered divorce. We got our finances in order (even after going through a bankrupticy) and went to marriage counseling with a fantastic marriage counselor.

Now more than a decade later, we are pre-marriage mentors and financial coaches through our church. It is more fulfilling that I could have possibly imagined.

Where do I start? What's the first baby step? I googled "Volunteering opportunities" many times without success so far ;)
Do you have hobbies? What do you like to do? Seek out opportunities that play to your strengths. Every small organization, community institution, or non-profit entity could use some volunteer help. Most of them aren't taking out google adwords.
Red Cross is worldwide and have lots of different volunteering activities. Also, most cities in the world have centras with volunteers doing different things. You need to find local engagement, and getting to know people, your network start to expand in that area. You can start by calling these and ask how to proceed, what would be suitable, or even just try out a course or something.

This is something that may enrich your life, but I wouldn't rely solely on volunteering and charity. They should be part of life, but your yearning is more personal than that.

What city do you live in?

In San Francisco or Seattle, Google "soup kitchen volunteer {city}".

Low commitment, no special skills required. Go try it. Talk to the other people there. Ask where else they volunteer. You can literally google this today and help this week.

Are you following Black Lives Matter? Get involved at the local level. Research your police department and social services funding for your city. Really dig into the details. Find organizing groups there that are working to enact real change through fiscal policies.

Barcelona. I will try to follow your advice locally. There is no shortage of social emergencies in southern Europe.
Is the Catalan Independence still a big topic?
I'm not sure I can provide an actual measure of how big of a topic it is.
I'm also from Barcelona, and while I consider myself fortunate and relatively successful, I'm still far from the point you currently are.

However, I have experienced doing social projects purely for meaning during few months between opportunities. The most fulfilling one was setting up a mentoring program in high school, where I went through a set of sessions with a small group of ambitious young students. Not technical mentoring, more like practical general life advice delivered in a workshop manner, as if I was an older friend. They all enjoyed it a lot, and to this day, few years later, we still stay in touch and I'm very happy to see how much they have grown since then.

From my experience being born here, there is a strong pull from society to conform and stay mediocre. I want to change that, and help those ambitious to create their own path.

Unfortunately, working at a startup I don't have time for that currently. But I will definitely get back to something like this once I'm financially independent.

If you would like to discuss more, email is in my profile.

merci Oriol ;) We should connect, I'll send you an email.
Baby steps?

Paint smiley faces or flowers on small stones and randomly leave them on sidewalks around your town. No more than one every few blocks. Never check on them again.

Study karma.

Learn how to adjust your presence to uplift the people you pass by. Positive comments, compliments, and even learning how to hope for someone’s recovery when they insult you.

Call a local publicly funded organization and ask if they have volunteer opportunities.

Maybe I should do this. I'd feel like a hippie, drawing smiles on stones, but ... who knows
Do it with your kid and it's a positive teaching moment for spreading joy.
Read "The most good you can do".
It's GREAT that you're in this position! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

I went through this as well. 10 years ago I was at the peak of a career but missing purpose. I rededicated my life to serving other people. It has given me a whole new lease on existence, and I can't recommend it enough. It really feels better to give than to receive!

The short, overly simplistic answer is that all you need to do to rededicate yourself to a life of helping people is to listen and learn to what they need. Volunteering is a good way to learn about people who need help, but it's not the only way. Volunteering in person can be tough right now because of COVID, but there are some things you can do online, and if you have a bit of patience you could wait until in-person volunteering picks back up again and then establish some goals for yourself (e.g., "volunteer at least 3 days each month for 6 months")

Outside of volunteering, you could take time to listen to and learn about people who you think might need help. Depending on your geography, those might be different folks.

If the things above STILL don't work for you, you could do something that is maybe slightly more dangerous, but still can work. Flip it around and look for things to be outraged by. Things you can't stand. Mass deforestation. Racial injustice. Human trafficking. 1000 other injustices to choose from. And then get active! (Be cautious with this one -- rage alone isn't productive -- you have to mix your outrage with your proactive strengths and positive energies too!)

In my case, I ended up discovering my passion for helping low-income youth prepare for careers, which became my full-time focus and it's been a true privilege to work on.

This. There is a group of computer illiterate people who do important work for our society but they were forced to work or learn from home, a team viewer sessions once or twice a day is really refreshing to see how our IT skills are useful - and that instant gratification "thank you" and joy in the camera.
It sounds like you can do much more than volunteering, especially if you're good at making and hitting goals.

Check out the Bill Gates documentary on Netflix if you haven't. One notable thing he does is he picks up a lot of books on the problems faced by the world.

Personally, I'd love to help out the average person. People in my area are underpaid and have terrible working conditions - the average "senior" programmer makes a little over $1,000/month and most end up in dead end jobs with few opportunities. There's also people in more remote areas, who are paid too little to find a better job, and labor laws are barely sustainable anymore.

As someone who has implemented what you wanted, maybe you can help others do the same. Instead of giving soup to homeless people, you can give them a reasonable goal to strive for.

I noted elsewhere, but directly to this q: one volunteering site that doesn't require you to figure out detailed extensive plans before getting started, is probably https://justserve.org . They let orgs and volunteers sign up and see what is available, for a given locality.
Hey - just my two cents. You seem like someone of means (intellectual and financial). Volunteering and charity can be personally fulfilling but systemised charity is ineffective. Use your skillset and networks to resolve something from the root. Financial inequality is the root of most social ills - is there something you can do in micro-financing? Something in upskilling/education or employment?

Good luck! I feel you will hit upon something worth while.

The whole point of this thread is about doing something personally fulfilling. I think throwing money at some cause is not the way to get there.
+1 for altruistic endeavors. Nothing beats the fulfillment you get on helping others, even a small act might mean a huge thing for someone else.
I think I remember reading or hearing Malcolm Gladwell reccomend to visit less fortunate/developed parts of the globe, and understand what really matters for humans, as well as realising how small things even can help.

For an extreme case to seek inspiration from someone who has everything, and genuenly seems content with his life is Bill Gates.

Best of luck, and congrats on achieving what you have!

When I was older than you, I left technology to try for medical school. After several years of studies, some of it absolutely brutal, I had to go back to technology; my brain is just not wired to memorize large amounts of information as required to pass med school exams. It was a fascinating detour and I was fortunate that I had the tech skills to get back into technology, though my dreams of becoming a doctor had come to an end.

I guess my message is, push yourself to try different things, ascend to new heights. You may, like me, crash and burn, but it's also a way to grow (perhaps, at least, like me, learn some humility and understanding of your own flaws and limitations).

There's a wonderful book, a bit dated but still worth reading: "What Should I Do With My Life" by Po Bronson[1], a set of interviews with people who became restless and changed careers, sometimes succeeding, sometimes "a work in progress". I got a lot of inspiration from reading others' stories and perhaps you will, as well.

1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FBFMKC

Did you do a post-bac program for this? I'm in the process of trying to leave software and become a PA, but I'm not sure what the best path would be, or how to budget/plan.
My wife just did this. Basically she took the prerecs over two years while working as a clinical research manager which also gave her the required hours of med-related work experience.

Total cost is 100-200k depending on the program, including living expenses. Most people borrow that.

I can speak to this a little bit. I am in the process of finishing a post-bacc with the goal of applying to medical schools next year after having switched from a career in tech.

My biggest piece of advice would be to not let go of your career too soon. It's tough taking classes and working a full time job simultaneously but I think it's really important to make sure that you can handle that kind of work load and that this is a change you really want to make before giving up your livelihood. It might take you an extra year in your post-bacc but IMO the extra year of financial security and time to figure out the correct path is just worth it... I think what's tough about the PA route is that many programs require applicants to already have thousands of hours of patient contact before applying. This likely means that you will have to find some kind of job in health care prior to applying for a PA program... If I were you, before I set my heart on a PA program I would take a good hard look at nursing programs, NP programs, and MD/DO programs because you can get accepted into those types of schools without having the same kind of professional background a PA school require of you. With that said, if my heart was still set on PA, I would probably try to go for some kind of certificate or associates program first in something like respiratory therapy, pathology/radiology/laboratory tech, or EMT/paramedicine in order to move into the healthcare space with some kind of skill/career prospects before quitting my tech job. Then you can get the hours you need and take any classes the programs your interested in require of you while also confirming that you do indeed want to be a PA. That whole process, from making a plan to finishing your PA program could probably be done in 5 years which, when you consider how long medical school is, doesn't seem too bad. Especially, if you are able to stay in a lucrative profession before beginning PA school.

This is just my two cents. I am by no means an expert but I am at the end of my third and final year of post-bacc classes and I have spent a lot of time thinking about which path out of a tech and into healthcare makes the most sense.

Thanks so much for the info. I just finished getting my EMT certification, it's just gonna be really hard to get the hours of experience done without leaving my regular job. My job isn't lucrative (mid-$50k), but I'm not sure if I can afford to live on minimum wage + no health insurance as a full-time EMT. Plus I have no idea how I'll pay to get a post-bac. It seems like you need a certain amount of financial security to do this.
Yes, I did a post-bac program. But you don't need a program; you can just take the prerequisite courses: physics, chemistry, organic chemistry, and biology.

PA is a tough program, and very competitive today; it's not much different from med school (shorter, though).

I'm not sure if PA programs offer a medical masters program, but many med schools do: a 24 month degree program featuring two semesters of coursework that is identical to the first year of medical school followed by two semesters of other stuff including thesis. Usually people do it to prove to themselves and to med schools that they have what it takes; it significantly improves their chances of admission. Probably would help with PA as well. I wish I had done a medical masters degree and that would have helped me either pass med school, or realize it wasn't for me!

PA is also different in that it is rooted in the Vietnam era, giving a pathway to war medics who have lots of field experience but lack the schooling and credentials of med school. To get into PA school, you're expected to have around 1,000 hours of field work -- volunteering, EMT, nursing, etc. This may have changed recently, but was true 10-12 years ago for sure.

I've spoken to quite a few M.D.s who said they wish they had chosen PA -- a shorter path, less stress, and very satisfying.

thanks for the feedback! I'll take your advice into account and dive into the book
30 years old here and starting the prereqs for RN next week part-time (online). I figured at this age I don't have the time or mental acuity to be a MD. My first class being A&P should be a tell-tale sign of whether this experiment will go well.
30 is young, you'll be fine.

The tricky part (for me at least) is the memorization. After 20 years of working in a field where I can look up everything I need to know, suddenly I had to commit thousands of data points to memory to pass a test (then promptly forget the data afterwards). It's an archaic system.

Anyway you'll have to find a way to memorize and regurgitate. If you can do that, the rest is just common sense.

Try utilizing Anki for spaced repetition. Brilliant program used by many medical students.
Life is like a piece of music. The "point" of listening to it lies in the listening - not the getting to the end of the track. If you build and optimize your life around "getting to the end" - whatever that has meant for you, getting a degree, reaching a certain amount of wealth, a certain amount of success, a certain kind of partner, etc. - you will eventually find that there is no more "end" to get to.

Well, the way out of this is really stupid - you just have to learn to enjoy the music instead of always looking forward to reaching the end of the track.

It's a huge lie that once you've achieved the "american dream" (which I don't think is the real american dream anyways) then everything will be sorted out. yes your life will be more amazing, and it's 100% important to reach this place, but once you've hit that place you'll lose a lot of motivation and energy, cause now lack of money, lack of family, lack of anything, doesn't kick your ass during the day. so you have a huge new challenge on your hands, and that is to re-invent yourself and discover what can move you now. you're embarking on a set of veryyyy difficult questions around what's the purpose of all this, what's the point of this, what the heck should i do with my days now. just know that you've been put on this journey for a reason and there's a way out and listen to your heart more than anything else. trust yourself. and be patient. there are answers out there and they will make you more fulfilled than you can imagine. the worst thing you can do is turn a blind eye to what your heart is saying and dive back into work and whatnot. you're doing the right, difficult thing by sitting patiently and staring right into the eye of the storm, so despite it appearing you're doing nothing with your life now, you're going through a lot of inner changes that will ultimately lead to a lot of outer changes.
Shit, help people like me, 30 and not really near that level of accomplishment yet. Help explain how you got there and what less motivated people could do to reach even half that. I have a decent job and make enough to travel and all, but I'm single and could certainly be higher up in the professional sense than I am at the moment. It'd be nice to know what motivates other people or what they did to get off their ass in their free time to make it happen.
Or, you can learn something from reading this and realize that you're not really missing anything, because it's a distraction.

A more constructive path would be to focus on passion, follow your heart; wherever it may lead you.

Read some Aldous Huxley and see if that changes you ;)
I can appreciate the fact that you reached out for advice -- thanks for that! I'm curious to know what parts of Aldous Huxley's work would present an inspiration for change here?
You are most welcome. Personally I found the genius and the goddess made the greatest change in my perspective. Obviously I can't say it will have the same effect on you; however I've found that many of his writings are very thought provoking so perhaps just pick a few at random :).

I wish you the very best and I'll leave you with a quote from the man himself:

"Every man who knows how to read has it in his power to magnify himself, to multiply the ways in which he exists, to make his life full, significant and interesting."

I went through a similar experience around the same age. Like you, I had everything I wanted except purpose.

Did you consider asking while meditating? In that state it's easier to reach into the unconscious, where there may well be an answer waiting for you.

That's the easy part, the difficult part is accepting the answer as it will potentially change your life dramatically.

> Did you consider asking while meditating?

hehe funny enough, I did it 20 minutes before writing this post. I couldn't find the answer inside so I though: "Fuck it, let's ask HN"

Patience :)

From my experience the answer comes when you least expect it, you might not even recognize it unless you keep an open mind.

Work to solve one of the tough problems in the world. Renewable energy, systemic bias, corruption, health care etc.
>This time I'd like to start really pouring my soul into something that can provide meaning to my life

Meaning comes from within. If you're looking for outside sources, you've already lost. If you've achieved enough material success that you no longer have to worry about working to survive, excellent! Be grateful, for you have something 99.999% of the world will never have. Use the free time you have achieved to think about things that matter to you. Not what you 'think' should matter, not what other people say matters, but what actually matters to you. If you haven't done this before, (and it sounds like you haven't), don't be surprised when it turns out to be a genuinely difficult question. That's ok! Take your time, roll it around in your mind. Don't try and go 100% all-in on things. That only works when you have a concrete goal already defined. You need to let your default network roam around for a bit.

this resonate quite a lot with the state of things. Thanks.

Tomorrow morning I'll plan to spend some time in a library just pondering about it

You're not wasting 'productive' years. You have a wife and kid. Ask them what they want out of life, and do that if you can't think of anything yourself.
Autonomy? Check. Mastery? Check. Purpose? <== you are here
This quote from Pascal might apply here. He said "There is a God-shaped vacuum in the heart of each man which cannot be satisfied by any created thing but only by God the Creator, made known through Jesus Christ."
Learn about something totally alien and "beyond" your current scope of life skills. Find a new passion. Find a passion.

Perhaps consider a means of not losing the advantages of what you currently have, while allowing you significant leeway to alter your future course in a way that will become clearer to you as you discover it.

You need an idea to pursue. The idea cannot be a simple myth about changing the world in some way, it has to be somehow more intrinsically engaging to you.

Studying some philosophy can help - not for getting the idea, but for usefully evaluating it after you get it.

This is a symptom of someone that lived a 'square' life style all their lives... and never did something out of bounds or take risks

You really need to spice up your life... Go to the dessert, do some 'safe' drugs, (aka, mushrooms)..., get a mistress.... get a motorcycle (and be safe about it), buy one of those trycycle open air cars and ride the coast, start playing some social sports seriously, (volleyball/soccer) etc... etc...

It is up to you what you think you like, but often you never know until you try it. The fact that you are not happy, means you are getting a mini burn out from being so 'square' all your life. Time to rebel a bit, just don't throw the baby with the bathwater, (aka, don't destroy the good stuff in your life, just incorporate some more risky fun)

not the case here. I don't think that adventure and spicy is what's missing. I did a lot of those things and more, luckily... It is true, however, that it's getting increasingly harder to convince friends to join me in adventures.
I love this comment. I could not agree more. I would love to re-live those years, but I am content to have "been there/done that". I would feel so empty without all the stupid shit I've done in my life. But of course I'm lucky to be alive, and also to have come of age pre-911, but I'm not sure how one can know how great they have things without having seen the edge. For passer-bys, I highly recommend reading the book Siddhartha for insight into this idea--finding bookends to your existence has brought me incredible peace.
I spent much of my 20's struggling with finding purpose in life, similar to the OP, and this is the only comment here that matched with what I landed on. I'm now about to begin my 30's with many of these things either done or in progress.

The biggest one has been taking up climbing as a sport. Climbing has a clear path to improvement, has a wonderful social element, takes you to amazing places around the world, and can be as safe or risky as you're willing to push.

The other big component in life that I've taken up is art. Writing, painting, music, poetry, you name it. There is something innate about producing art that I think every human can benefit from. On that note, I think it's also easy for us to dismiss ourselves as untalented in any of these arts, but they're like any other skill and they'll become more fulfilling with time.

Help others.

If you’re a programmer then automate your charitable work.

How many people can you help this week? 50,000?

Can you buy fertiliser for an entire city? Can you pull a ton of carbon out of the atmosphere? Can you speak for the defenceless, downtrodden, voiceless people who are suffering? Can you eliminate hunger for a whole village? Can you teach 10 kids to code and teach them to all teach 10?

Start helping people

> loved by my family, surrounded by good friends, happily married

You got the most important thing right. Whatever you end up doing, don't forget that.