No mention of the most interesting recent development, low frequency vibration applied to the skull. Unfortunately development is moving incredibly slowly but I think it has promise. https://otolithlabs.com/science/
What is the mechanism of how vibration disrupts nausea? This article says it is like how white noise can block annoying sounds... But also some bits about targeting certain nerves and not other.
if i had to wager a guess it would be to apply noise to the liquid in the tubes that control balance. if it can disrupt the rocking motion or even induce artificial motion it could counteract it. that said it's a wild guess.
I tried numerous ways to combat motion sickness when I'd fly passengers in light aircraft.
Everything from those wristband-watch type devices that use pulses of electricity to stimulate nerves, to dramamine and other OTC options.
The most effective treatment by far was ginger root powder. You can take it in capsule form and it was the only really effective treatment I came across.
Just curious since ginger works for me too: Did you also get results from ginger products like ginger candies, ginger tea, etc.? I found some candies that work well for me and was planning to branch out a bit.
The first time I rode in a friend's light helicopter he told me, "We don't have any barf bags onboard so make sure your shirt is tucked in." (Luckily I felt fine.)
I find pressure on my wrist (about 2-3 fingers above the base of the hand) helps tremendously. OTC wristbands from walgreens that do the same didn't help much. Had to press down on one arm with the other.
Not a cure though, so I've never tried a roller coaster with this technique. The headache would probably make me insane.
Oh man. I took the fast ferry from Boston to Provincetown in rough seas. The boat was pitching, yawing, and rolling, simultaneously. I think normally they charge for ginger suckers/lollypops. They were handing them out by the fistful for free on that trip.
Unfortunately, the principal effect of them seemed to be that people were vomiting ginger-scented vomit. That was a long-ass boat ride; at least half the folks on it threw up.
I like the idea of capsules of ginger root powder a lot more.
When I was doing the flight school, the first 20 hours were early morning or late evening to avoid turbulence. At around 30 hours, I was flying light planes very low over fields and forests in the middle of the day, I had motion sickness so bad that I was barely able to ride my motorcycle back home. I asked the instructors about this and they said something in the lines of "we all had it, it is going away with time".
The next year I never had motion sickness when I was in control of the plane, but if I had a copilot when we were switching control I still had some motion sickness in bad conditions. Several years later I almost never have any problems, unless I spend too much time looking at the maps and not outside of the cockpit. It goes away with time, it seems. I never tried sailing in the past few years to check if I can get seasick, but I noticed I am almost unaffected by car sickness that I had a lot when I was a kid.
One way to partially train for this was doing a couple of in-flight maneuvers that provoke sickness to almost anyone, including some seasoned pilots: inducing close to zero-g conditions, either by doing short slingshot maneuvers (point at 20-30 degrees nose-up and then push the stick keeping 0.5g, then 0.3g, then 0.2g) or doing it faster while extending the flaps to full, the sensation is very bad if someone does it to you, but it can be even enjoyable if you doing yourself flying alone. I practiced the slingshot part for a few weeks, this is what it took me to get to ~ 0.2g without feeling sick.
Do you get motion sickness in VFR conditions, especially having to focus on instruments?
I’m contemplating getting a PPL, but I’m very prone to motion sickness trying to read while flying. If I’m not resting, turbulence is just fine. First-person-shooters make make me sick, but third-person do not.
Yes, I used to get it in VFR, IFR flights are heavily restricted in my country (they are completely forbidden for light planes, same as night flights).
As a pilot I can shoot approaches with the hood on in turbulence for 2-3 hours a day and it doesn't bother me much. 4-5 hours in a single day when I was doing my instrument training was pushing it, but a lot of that was probably related to heat, dehydration, etc as well I think.
As a kid I was also prone to seasickness which subsided as I grew older, but since moving away from New Orleans into the center of the US I have completely lost any tolerance for boat-related motion sickness, I've found.
I think it's like so many other things: high tolerance comes from regular use.
Phil Greenspun writes[0] about motion sickness for student pilots.
> I get violently seasick in any normal ocean swell but have never thrown up on a commercial airline flight. Personally I find light planes in good weather to be somewhat more nauseating than commercial airliners, but nowhere near as bad as a boat. That said, I felt really sick during my first lesson and continued to get queasy whenever my instructor touched the controls. If you tend toward motion sickness, try to find an instructor whose style is to talk you through everything rather than demonstrate and correct with his or her hands and feet. A $100 electronic ReliefBand[1] for your wrist will probably help but the keys to avoiding motion sickness while training are the following:
> - Eyes out of the cockpit; fly by watching the nose’s position relative to the horizon and periodically check the instruments to see if the visually established attitude is getting you what you want in terms of airspeed and climb rate
> - Instructor talking to you instead of working the stick him or herself
> - Fly on non-turbulent days
> Maybe it will take you a few extra hours to get your certificate but you’ll have more fun.
> Oh yes, be sure to carry a barf bag for any passengers. In the immortal words of Charles Wright, instructor at East Coast Aero Club, “Having a passenger throwing up violently a few inches from you can be very distracting.” […]
> Personally I found that motion sickness was less of an issue at 50 hours than 5, less at 100 than 50, and barely a memory at 200 hours. The only way that I can bring on any symptoms is to let a friend fly through bumpy skies while I dig through luggage in the back of the airplane. The foregoing notwithstanding, I still try to avoid turbulence because I find it wearing and uncomfortable.
Pot right? Hemp for ropes, flowers for sea legs? Adam Savage mentioned something about it on Tested. I don’t think I’ve personally been motion sick when I had some pot around.
I didn’t see it mentioned? I have a bad habit of skimming but no mention at all?
If you're curious about an engineering approach to attack the root cause of seasickness, check out the Sea Keeper (https://www.seakeeper.com). It's a big gyro that eliminates boat roll, which is one of the main culprits of seasickness.
The landsickness treatment thing is something I would have paid money for. I was on a 3-day sailing trip and when I got off it was a couple of weeks before everything stopped spinning.
Yes, that helps. And anything, which reduces the confusion for the brain. It can help a lot to stand instead of sitting down. So when my stomach gets iffy in trains or busses, standing helps me a lot. This is, because you get a better feedback about the motion. Fresh air is also always very welcome in difficult situations.
I was a little disappointed they had no cure for seasickness yet, other than looking at the horizon (which works, unless the seas are so rough the horizon is rolling as well). You can control some of the symptoms (upset stomach, lethargy, and nausea) with Diet Coke. The soda calms the stomach, and the caffeine keeps you alert to fight the nausea. Crawling into the fetal position and hoping you would die also helps :)
I used to have a couple of bottles of coke and ginger biscuits for the first few days. My theory is that you need energy/stimulant and hydration. The coke is basically sugar and caffeine and liquid. The longer it is in your stomach the more you will have absorbed. I like ginger biscuits anyway and they are also very sugary. Oh, and the coke doesn't taste any different coming back up.
The article started with the phrase:
The worst thing about being seasick is knowing you are not going to die.
but I've heard this phrased better as:
At first, you are afraid you are going to die,
but then, you are afraid you are not going to die.
Well this article was about seasickness but nothing about a cure, sigh. I'm about immune now but my partner is not.
I thought it was interesting that they say those who never get seasick have a "dysfunctional" vestibular system; they have a slow vomit response, even if poisoned. I wonder if I am just adjusted or if my vestibular system is now dysfunctional.
I find them very effective at reducing seasickness below decks. I won’t say there are no funny feelings being below with roll, but I will say I could definitely work hanging upside down angled to roll direction with only mild discomfort: a HUGE improvement over folk remedies.
The way they Are said to work is the liquid in the glasses shows a real horizon and this settles your brain into being able to believe your inner ear. I think a less goofy version of this could be built out digitally on the inside of sunglasses; I think it would be pretty popular.
Scopolamine behind-the-ear patches are readily available with a prescription. It absolutely cures motion sickness, but it also makes you so sleepy that it's almost pointless. Which is why NASA mixes it with a stimulant.
And yes, scopolamine in larger doses is the classic "truth serum" in that it tends to loosen inhibitions. But lots of other drugs do that too.
Regarding scopolamine, Vice magazine made a documentary about the way it's used in Columbia. It's rather unsettling, but worth watching if you're interested in this kind of stuff.
Unfortunately, I am extremey susceptible for any kinds of motion sickness. As a passenger of a car I regularly get sick, sometimes even when driving myself. Trains are mostly ok, if I keep looking into the distance. I even experience it with other kinds of irritation, like a malfunctioning mouse, where the mouse motion and the pointer reaction are not tightly enough correlated. It took a while until they made optical mice I could use.
I agree with everything said in the article, perhaps one tip: if you have someone whom you know that that person is susceptible to motion sickness, don't ask that person if she or he is still feeling fine, that might push them over the border. You should of course watch them closely, as the dangers described in the article are absolutely real. At minimum you loose any concern about your own wellbeing when affected.
One substance, that has been quite effective for me, has not been mentioned in the article, and that is Cinnarizine. It has to be taken at least 3 days before you plan to take part in any motion sickness inducing activity and from then on every day, e.g. during travel, in low dosages. While not granting complete immunity, it allows me to ride cars as passengers - once I was even texting on my phone! - and travel by plane etc. If you are suffering from motion sickness to an extend preventing you to travel otherwise, I can only encourage you to talk to your doctor about it.
So, indeed, I wish desperately for a cure for motion sickness, preferrably before self-driving cars become a thing :).
P.S. I am probably one of a few people who have never watched a movie on a plane :p. Despite of this, I managed to acquire a sailing boat license, due to the help of cinnarizine. Speak of braveness/stupidity.
If any of my experience might help, please ask me any questions.
I'm the same. It drives me absolutely insane when software developers (especially games designers) don't think about motion sickness.
Things like scrolling a web page can induce vertigo-like feelings if the content lags while it's scrolling. Mouse lag, which you mentioned, is unbearable.
I've had to stop playing certain games such as Overcooked or Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime because they incorporate elements where the entire screen's perspective moves.
Nothing seems to help me when I go sailing, nothing other than just doing it regularly and if I'm out on a multi-day sail I'll get my "sea legs" and it seems to stop. Only to return back on land where I'll be hallucinating waves with my eyes closed and feeling like interior spaces are rocking back and forth for days if not weeks.
I am mildly prone to motion sickness in actual motion situations, e.g. small planes (love to get my pilot's license, but cannot), reading in a car, etc. But I am extremely sensitive to motion sickness induced by visual stimuli. I have to take Dramamine just to watch a movie. Switching to a larger smartphone will trigger it for a few days. Putting on reading glasses will have me really sick in about 10 minutes. It has a huge impact on the things I can do, and the reading glasses problem is now a big problem because I'm getting old enough to need them.
I'm going to try the 'see sickness' treatment that I see on the net, but it almost seems scammy, though they claim they're not selling anything. But if I can find a way to even partly cure it, the quality of life improvement would be worth paying real money for.
For those considering the glasses I can find two versions of them [1] and [2] at 90€ and 80€ respectively (latter on sale). I've never tried them but they're too ugly-looking not to work .
Another tidbit that may be interesting to those that suffer from motion-sickness, especially on boats, that I was taught by sailors in northern norway (was stranded there during the pandemic) is that a lot of them are more affected by the rolling of a boat rather than the waves that hit the boat perpendicularly. Thus, their advice was to face the direction of the roll - either by turning your chair or sitting sideways - and face the horizon on that side as that motion is easier to acclimate to. I've tried that one and I admit it did help. By no means a panacea though.
46 comments
[ 5.8 ms ] story [ 67.7 ms ] threadhttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/335159616_We_'may'_...
http://www.tinnitusjournal.com/articles/tinnitus-improvement...
What is the mechanism of how vibration disrupts nausea? This article says it is like how white noise can block annoying sounds... But also some bits about targeting certain nerves and not other.
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2018/11/inventor-may-h...
Everything from those wristband-watch type devices that use pulses of electricity to stimulate nerves, to dramamine and other OTC options.
The most effective treatment by far was ginger root powder. You can take it in capsule form and it was the only really effective treatment I came across.
If you look for Chimes on Amazon , you can find a 1lb bag for around 15 bucks.
I have been camel sick; large, slow motions.
Not a cure though, so I've never tried a roller coaster with this technique. The headache would probably make me insane.
Unfortunately, the principal effect of them seemed to be that people were vomiting ginger-scented vomit. That was a long-ass boat ride; at least half the folks on it threw up.
I like the idea of capsules of ginger root powder a lot more.
The next year I never had motion sickness when I was in control of the plane, but if I had a copilot when we were switching control I still had some motion sickness in bad conditions. Several years later I almost never have any problems, unless I spend too much time looking at the maps and not outside of the cockpit. It goes away with time, it seems. I never tried sailing in the past few years to check if I can get seasick, but I noticed I am almost unaffected by car sickness that I had a lot when I was a kid.
One way to partially train for this was doing a couple of in-flight maneuvers that provoke sickness to almost anyone, including some seasoned pilots: inducing close to zero-g conditions, either by doing short slingshot maneuvers (point at 20-30 degrees nose-up and then push the stick keeping 0.5g, then 0.3g, then 0.2g) or doing it faster while extending the flaps to full, the sensation is very bad if someone does it to you, but it can be even enjoyable if you doing yourself flying alone. I practiced the slingshot part for a few weeks, this is what it took me to get to ~ 0.2g without feeling sick.
I’m contemplating getting a PPL, but I’m very prone to motion sickness trying to read while flying. If I’m not resting, turbulence is just fine. First-person-shooters make make me sick, but third-person do not.
As a pilot I can shoot approaches with the hood on in turbulence for 2-3 hours a day and it doesn't bother me much. 4-5 hours in a single day when I was doing my instrument training was pushing it, but a lot of that was probably related to heat, dehydration, etc as well I think.
As a kid I was also prone to seasickness which subsided as I grew older, but since moving away from New Orleans into the center of the US I have completely lost any tolerance for boat-related motion sickness, I've found.
I think it's like so many other things: high tolerance comes from regular use.
> I get violently seasick in any normal ocean swell but have never thrown up on a commercial airline flight. Personally I find light planes in good weather to be somewhat more nauseating than commercial airliners, but nowhere near as bad as a boat. That said, I felt really sick during my first lesson and continued to get queasy whenever my instructor touched the controls. If you tend toward motion sickness, try to find an instructor whose style is to talk you through everything rather than demonstrate and correct with his or her hands and feet. A $100 electronic ReliefBand[1] for your wrist will probably help but the keys to avoiding motion sickness while training are the following:
> - Eyes out of the cockpit; fly by watching the nose’s position relative to the horizon and periodically check the instruments to see if the visually established attitude is getting you what you want in terms of airspeed and climb rate
> - Instructor talking to you instead of working the stick him or herself
> - Fly on non-turbulent days
> Maybe it will take you a few extra hours to get your certificate but you’ll have more fun.
> Oh yes, be sure to carry a barf bag for any passengers. In the immortal words of Charles Wright, instructor at East Coast Aero Club, “Having a passenger throwing up violently a few inches from you can be very distracting.” […]
> Personally I found that motion sickness was less of an issue at 50 hours than 5, less at 100 than 50, and barely a memory at 200 hours. The only way that I can bring on any symptoms is to let a friend fly through bumpy skies while I dig through luggage in the back of the airplane. The foregoing notwithstanding, I still try to avoid turbulence because I find it wearing and uncomfortable.
[0]: https://philip.greenspun.com/flying/learning
[1]: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001B8BGS/
I didn’t see it mentioned? I have a bad habit of skimming but no mention at all?
Tried marijuana edibles multiple times, it only made the vomiting a more intense experience and going overboard more likely.
It also made the sailing more error prone.
I just had the idea to take Vomex A before using a VR headset. :D
The landsickness treatment thing is something I would have paid money for. I was on a 3-day sailing trip and when I got off it was a couple of weeks before everything stopped spinning.
Stare at the horizon. Seems to help calm the senses down.
The article started with the phrase:
but I've heard this phrased better as:I thought it was interesting that they say those who never get seasick have a "dysfunctional" vestibular system; they have a slow vomit response, even if poisoned. I wonder if I am just adjusted or if my vestibular system is now dysfunctional.
I find them very effective at reducing seasickness below decks. I won’t say there are no funny feelings being below with roll, but I will say I could definitely work hanging upside down angled to roll direction with only mild discomfort: a HUGE improvement over folk remedies.
The way they Are said to work is the liquid in the glasses shows a real horizon and this settles your brain into being able to believe your inner ear. I think a less goofy version of this could be built out digitally on the inside of sunglasses; I think it would be pretty popular.
http://omegataupodcast.net/34-space-medicine-and-telemedicin...
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scopolamine-devil-s-breath-nasa-us... https://youtu.be/ToQ8PWYnu04
And yes, scopolamine in larger doses is the classic "truth serum" in that it tends to loosen inhibitions. But lots of other drugs do that too.
https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/worlds-scariest-drug-colo...
I agree with everything said in the article, perhaps one tip: if you have someone whom you know that that person is susceptible to motion sickness, don't ask that person if she or he is still feeling fine, that might push them over the border. You should of course watch them closely, as the dangers described in the article are absolutely real. At minimum you loose any concern about your own wellbeing when affected.
One substance, that has been quite effective for me, has not been mentioned in the article, and that is Cinnarizine. It has to be taken at least 3 days before you plan to take part in any motion sickness inducing activity and from then on every day, e.g. during travel, in low dosages. While not granting complete immunity, it allows me to ride cars as passengers - once I was even texting on my phone! - and travel by plane etc. If you are suffering from motion sickness to an extend preventing you to travel otherwise, I can only encourage you to talk to your doctor about it.
So, indeed, I wish desperately for a cure for motion sickness, preferrably before self-driving cars become a thing :).
P.S. I am probably one of a few people who have never watched a movie on a plane :p. Despite of this, I managed to acquire a sailing boat license, due to the help of cinnarizine. Speak of braveness/stupidity.
If any of my experience might help, please ask me any questions.
Things like scrolling a web page can induce vertigo-like feelings if the content lags while it's scrolling. Mouse lag, which you mentioned, is unbearable.
I've had to stop playing certain games such as Overcooked or Lovers in a Dangerous Spacetime because they incorporate elements where the entire screen's perspective moves.
I'm going to try the 'see sickness' treatment that I see on the net, but it almost seems scammy, though they claim they're not selling anything. But if I can find a way to even partly cure it, the quality of life improvement would be worth paying real money for.
[1] https://boardingglasses.com/ [2] https://lifestyle.citroen.com/en/shop/_/pr4619/lunettes-seet...