> While your donations during this time have been appreciated, there’s actually many things you can do beyond that, which will have a lasting effect.
> Take a walk through our stacks, browse, meander… enter a search term of something that interests you and see what pops up and what collections it’s part of.
> Become a Patron
> Curate and Upload to the Archive
> Tell People That the Internet Archive Exists
> Get Involved In Our Many Projects, Including The Wayback Machine
> But Most of All, Please Help Yourself First.
> We’re touched by everyone who has spoken of their love and support of the Archive and its many missions, but this is also a time of much general uncertainty: economic, health concerns, and upheaval in society.
> The Internet Archive is our job and mission. Your job and mission is to take care of yourself and those closest to you. Without you, we’re a bunch of hard drives on the Internet.
The Internet Archive?! A lot of old (and not-so-old) websites are only available on Wayback Machine links. I've gotten a lot of old books from the Internet Archive (as in published in the 1700s, 1800, 1900s), they have almost everything pre-early-20thC that I search for. When I was getting into Forth and learning about Snobol, for example, they have a crapload of books and documents about both. And for lot of classic stuff from the 1970s and since unavailable anywhere else online[0] you can borrow an ebook free. Also I've got some great films and documentaries from there. Etc. I'm on there nearly every day, it's one of the very best sites online to search for stuff.
I recently needed to use the documentation for HTMLHint, only to find it had been deleted. So I went on Waybackmachine, and there it was.
I ended up going on the repo and asking them to undelete it, which they did, but in that moment I was lucky waybackmachine had it. This is one of hundreds of times I've used it.
My non-profit org -- densho.org -- documents and preserves the history of the WWII incarceration of Japanese Americans. IA has partnered with us to provide the backend storage and delivery of the 1000+ hours of video oral history interviews in our online digital repository (ddr.densho.org). Their support has been invaluable to our mission to make our materials freely available.
Recently I needed to run an old 16 bit windows program. I found a windows XP iso complete with a valid serial key on internet archive old software library.
Club D’Elf. They are a cross between morrocan trance and jam band. Though there is a core group of musicians, the only constant is the band leader/bass player. Depending upon who’s playing that night the style could be anything from Pink Floyd-esque, gnawa music, MMW-esque, David Bowie-esque.
They have a dedicated taper following and their own sound man for nearly every show resulting in at least 1 high quality recording for nearly every show they’ve played in the last 20 years. And the vast majority of their shows are at a small venue in Cambridge Ma.
I strongly recommend them.
But there’s lots of other good stuff on the live music archive.
Memory is important. While things are in still in recent living memory they often become lost. Later even the most seemingly banal tidbit can help us reconstruct our path to now.
I am a fan of the Internet Archive and use the Wayback Machine regularly. I used it even more frequently when I was an editor at a metro news site.
I am also a nonfiction author who was disappointed that the Internet Archive launched its national emergency library with flagrant disregard for copyright.
Indeed, as this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23521019 on a previous HN thread pointed out, the choice to move from controlled digital lending to uncontrolled digital lending was especially foolish because now the publishing industry is going after it not only because of uncontrolled digital lending but also because of controlled digital lending. And while there is solid rationale for why CDL should be considered legal, there isn't yet any legislation or case law that makes it clear.
So the IA put itself in a position of having to defend itself against the inevitable lawsuit from the publishing industry, and as a result, it potentially put its entire operations at risk.
Unless the leadership at the IA changes I don't see a happy outcome for the IA. Even if they win this lawsuit that will just make them bolder until they do something that they don't win.
There is just a conflicting set of goals between being an activist freedom of information non-profit and being a stable repository of knowledge for future generations. Right now the former is in charge, it seems, and so it's just a matter of time before they bite off too much.
edit: Interestingly the mission statement of the IA is to "provide Universal Access to All Knowledge." So the leadership is arguably following the mission statement. So, really, the problem is that the IA is simply not a good custodian for long term knowledge storage and should step aside for a better aligned organization to take that over.
I agree. This was a foolish, grandstanding move and they didn't back down until they were really pushed. Many authors wrote them and asked them to stop. The authors pointed out that books were available digitally or from vendors like Powell's or Amazon. But they persisted.
It's hard work to create a book. I'm happy to ignore the technical violations of copyright when the archive is being an archive. But when it's destroying the livelihood of the authors, I know that we'll have fewer good works from professionals.
The leadership needs to recognize that the authors are people and are often very small businesses who feel they are being crushed. If they're counting on the authors being too small to fighting an effective suit, that's very sad.
Nice to see that the HyperCard stacks collection (that I maintain) on archive.org got a mention:
> In our software collections, we have brought back thousands of hypercard stacks[1] that used to be easily available for Macintosh computers in the 1980s and 1990s – they will boot in your browser and let you enjoy them near-instantly.
The collection is certainly something that couldn't exist in it's current form without the Internet Archive. Sure, there are collections of .sit files sitting in old FTP mirrors, but it's the Internet Archive's in-browser emulation that makes them accessible. (It's unlikely that someone is willing to download an emulator and configure ROMs / system disks, just to play with a stack for 15 seconds).
Now for my usual shout-out: if you have some old stacks sitting around that you want to add to the collection, there's an online uploader[2]. I'm always pleased to see more stacks!
Unfortunately the IA showed that their leadership jeopardize their stated goal. Flagrantly disregarding copyright law, however noble the stated reason may be, showed an extreme lack of prudence. Making rash choices like that are exactly the wrong sort of temperament you need for a long term archive. I would love to see their mission continue, and would happily continue to support it, but I have a hard time supporting the current people who are executing it.
Losing the IA would be a big loss for humanity, but the blame for that rests squarely with the IA leadership. Hopefully a more stable group is able to continue the efforts somehow.
The mission statement of the Internet Archive is NOT to be a "long term archive." Their mission statement is to "provide Universal Access to All Knowledge." They're following their mission statement quiet accurately with this action I feel.
That said, the IA shouldn't have sold itself as a long term archive if it's mission statement contradicted that goal. So, I agree, that another organization with a more aligned mission statement should take over as a long term archive.
I no longer support the IA. They are a few people who needed a “mission” in life. But they aren’t true librarians or historians.
They waver between flighty utopian idealism and arrogance and self-justifying activism.
It’s getting old. For every “practical” use of the IA, there are just as many concerns.
No one really needs the old internet or all the old Geocities website and first design interactions or personal blogs. There’s no market for it and no one would pay for it.
If these folks had to hand-copy items or make photocopies, they would have quit a decade ago.
They use scraping and cheap hardware to “brag” about their massive knowledge base in the petabytes. Honestly, no one cares.
Outside of the circles of other digital borders and some tech circles, everyone else is playing with their kids, mowing their lawns, reading books, and such. Try to get your neigbor to go look at an IA website from 1996. They’ll just go watch Netflix instead.
Funny, I recently stared in wonder at a cuneiform tablet in a museum. When I looked at the description, I found out that it was a log of how much wheat was sold in a transaction several thousand years ago. Why do you think we consider that kind of thing interesting?
27 comments
[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 16.1 ms ] thread> While your donations during this time have been appreciated, there’s actually many things you can do beyond that, which will have a lasting effect.
> Take a walk through our stacks, browse, meander… enter a search term of something that interests you and see what pops up and what collections it’s part of.
> Become a Patron
> Curate and Upload to the Archive
> Tell People That the Internet Archive Exists
> Get Involved In Our Many Projects, Including The Wayback Machine
> But Most of All, Please Help Yourself First.
> We’re touched by everyone who has spoken of their love and support of the Archive and its many missions, but this is also a time of much general uncertainty: economic, health concerns, and upheaval in society.
> The Internet Archive is our job and mission. Your job and mission is to take care of yourself and those closest to you. Without you, we’re a bunch of hard drives on the Internet.
> We’ll be here when you’re ready.
What do you people use it for?
[0] i.e. instantly and free.
I ended up going on the repo and asking them to undelete it, which they did, but in that moment I was lucky waybackmachine had it. This is one of hundreds of times I've used it.
https://www.versionmuseum.com/history-of/apple-website
They have a dedicated taper following and their own sound man for nearly every show resulting in at least 1 high quality recording for nearly every show they’ve played in the last 20 years. And the vast majority of their shows are at a small venue in Cambridge Ma.
I strongly recommend them.
But there’s lots of other good stuff on the live music archive.
I am also a nonfiction author who was disappointed that the Internet Archive launched its national emergency library with flagrant disregard for copyright.
Indeed, as this comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23521019 on a previous HN thread pointed out, the choice to move from controlled digital lending to uncontrolled digital lending was especially foolish because now the publishing industry is going after it not only because of uncontrolled digital lending but also because of controlled digital lending. And while there is solid rationale for why CDL should be considered legal, there isn't yet any legislation or case law that makes it clear.
So the IA put itself in a position of having to defend itself against the inevitable lawsuit from the publishing industry, and as a result, it potentially put its entire operations at risk.
There is just a conflicting set of goals between being an activist freedom of information non-profit and being a stable repository of knowledge for future generations. Right now the former is in charge, it seems, and so it's just a matter of time before they bite off too much.
edit: Interestingly the mission statement of the IA is to "provide Universal Access to All Knowledge." So the leadership is arguably following the mission statement. So, really, the problem is that the IA is simply not a good custodian for long term knowledge storage and should step aside for a better aligned organization to take that over.
It's hard work to create a book. I'm happy to ignore the technical violations of copyright when the archive is being an archive. But when it's destroying the livelihood of the authors, I know that we'll have fewer good works from professionals.
The leadership needs to recognize that the authors are people and are often very small businesses who feel they are being crushed. If they're counting on the authors being too small to fighting an effective suit, that's very sad.
> In our software collections, we have brought back thousands of hypercard stacks[1] that used to be easily available for Macintosh computers in the 1980s and 1990s – they will boot in your browser and let you enjoy them near-instantly.
The collection is certainly something that couldn't exist in it's current form without the Internet Archive. Sure, there are collections of .sit files sitting in old FTP mirrors, but it's the Internet Archive's in-browser emulation that makes them accessible. (It's unlikely that someone is willing to download an emulator and configure ROMs / system disks, just to play with a stack for 15 seconds).
Now for my usual shout-out: if you have some old stacks sitting around that you want to add to the collection, there's an online uploader[2]. I'm always pleased to see more stacks!
[1] https://archive.org/details/hypercardstacks?sort=-publicdate
[2] http://hypercardonline.tk/
Losing the IA would be a big loss for humanity, but the blame for that rests squarely with the IA leadership. Hopefully a more stable group is able to continue the efforts somehow.
That said, the IA shouldn't have sold itself as a long term archive if it's mission statement contradicted that goal. So, I agree, that another organization with a more aligned mission statement should take over as a long term archive.
* any mention of funding
* any mention of legal issues with controlled sharing
And I think that's deliberate.
I'm going to read this as "It's OK. We've got this. (But we don't want to say that too explicitly for legal reasons)."
They waver between flighty utopian idealism and arrogance and self-justifying activism.
It’s getting old. For every “practical” use of the IA, there are just as many concerns.
No one really needs the old internet or all the old Geocities website and first design interactions or personal blogs. There’s no market for it and no one would pay for it.
If these folks had to hand-copy items or make photocopies, they would have quit a decade ago.
They use scraping and cheap hardware to “brag” about their massive knowledge base in the petabytes. Honestly, no one cares.
Outside of the circles of other digital borders and some tech circles, everyone else is playing with their kids, mowing their lawns, reading books, and such. Try to get your neigbor to go look at an IA website from 1996. They’ll just go watch Netflix instead.
But at least you made my point. IA is a museum, but run by amateurs displaying not Egyptian history, but homepages of 13-year olds from 1997.