"As many look for dairy alternatives for ethical or health reasons, vegan cheeses have been on the rise."
And that's all they say about that. Nothing about animal rights, animal welfare, or government dairy subsidies. Legend has it that at one point the US government was paying 75% of the price of dairy.
I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but if you took that out here, vegan soymilk and dairy milk would cost the same. That bugs me. It's a free market except for isolationism, cronyism, and the need for "small farmers" to act as PR fronts. Occasionally there is a good regulation that does something useful.
Under EU rules (the CAP, which uses a large part of the EU budget) basically every farm whether dairy or crop is subsidised. For many dairy farms in upland regions, crop farming isn't economically viable due to the terrain, so cows and sheep are farmed instead. Even then many farms are only viable due to the subsidies.
New Zealand farmers (who produce a lot of milk) have struggled with the level of subsidy the US and EU provide.
Im a New Zealander and it used to be a thing I’d read about and feel frustrated. However dairy farming trashes your land and waterways. Selling milk and milk powder is about the dumbest use of the land we could have come up with and it had caused massive harm.
The CAP is not just subsidies, it's regulation too - even under its arrangements, because of modern efficiency there is simply too much milk being produced at the European level. In some years, farmers are literally paid to throw it away.
This is because Europeans believe our agricultural peculiarities are worth protecting from the disruption of unbridled economic influences. Countries like France, Spain, or Italy, protect their milk so they can protect their cheese, so they can protect their recipes, so they can protect their food culture (and revenues) at large - a differentiator in the long term.
It's also a strategic play: if you're dependent on imports for your food, some foreign power has a lot of leverage over you in a trade war or worse, an actual war. So you spend money to keep production at home even though it might be more economically efficient to abandon those farms and import more of your food.
Some of the EU's subsidies go to "agricultural peculiarities" or small producers of niche traditional foods. That's fine, you're still propping up demand for the raw materials - that milk is just as good as any other if it comes to a crisis.
I think the argument goes that if you want dairy products to be available to everyone, and that the gov’t has a public health interest in that goal, then there has some minimum level of guaranteed demand or else dairy producers would collapse because they can’t really scale their production lock step with demand so the gov’t steps in to buy the excess and maybe finds a use for it.
So this is either a necessary evil to correct a weird market or insane gov’t subsidy depending on your perspective.
Dairy was a regional economic engine. Production in my neck of the woods (upstate ny) provided jobs in agriculture, processing and trucking, along with the downstream industries.
When laws changed and made the market national, huge producers were able to takeover the market and are in the process of putting everyone out of business. Yogurt in Trader Joe’s is shipped in from LA.
Consumer prices haven’t dropped. As big producers vertically integrate, prices are going up for many commodities.
And Eugene, Oregon. TJ's French Village plain nonfat yogurt is Nancy's Yogurt from Springfield Creamery in Eugene (formerly in Springfield), run by the Kesey family.
They're a really good source of protein, which is otherwise pretty scarce in fruit & veg. As cheese and milk are more or less defined by their proteins, nuts and legumes are pretty much the only viable alternatives.
I personally can't stand the stuff. The main selling point seems to be "it melts like cheese" but in my experience, it takes on a snotty texture. It'd probably help if I was a real vegan and didn't have alternatives...
So it's taste-and-texture replication. I don't even think it is aiming to perfectly replicate dairy cheese, as much as to be something that can be reasonably substituted for dairy cheese in the typical cases where it is used. It's analogous to how soy milk isn't meant to be indistinguishable from dairy milk but instead to be usable in place of dairy milk in coffee, cereal, etc.
> I don't even think it is aiming to perfectly replicate dairy cheese
It isn't, indeed. I've tried a whole bunch of different vegan cheeses, and while they sometimes call them "mozzarella", "camembert" or other dairy cheese names, they do not try to match the taste. It would be an obviously losing battle as the best they could do is to be as good, most probably and understandably falling short of that. They instead create new kinds of cheese-like products, sometimes taking inspiration from dary cheeses sometimes not, and the results are actually pretty good espectially considered how recent the art of vegan cheese is!
What I found out trying out more vegan food or vegan receipes is to stop looking at them as replacement of somehting and more like a novelty. Since I've done that everything taste much better to me because I'm trying the taste and not comparing it to anything.
> It's analogous to how soy milk isn't meant to be indistinguishable from dairy milk but instead to be usable in place of dairy milk in coffee, cereal, etc.
Unrelated, but why is it American's treat soy milk this way? American brands of soy milk are terrible, while Asian brands of soy milk can taste really good.
There actually is a company that has a microorganism-produced casein that's on the market and can be bought as vegan ice cream at Smitten in the Bay Area: https://www.perfectdayfoods.com/
Side note: one of the saddest-but-also-good aspects of the rise of artisanal cheese making in the US is how most US producers seem to be pricing their product at or above the cost of European imports. You'd sort of expect them to aim a bit below, but it seems they've decided to go for maximum revenue from a smaller market. There is a some crazy good US cheese being made these days, easily as good as anything from Europe, but it costs a fortune, without any import taxes or ocean-crossing transportation fees.
I'd just add that, in the case of Cheddar specifically, some of the artisanal long-aged US Cheddars are essentially different cheeses from day-to-day Cabot or whatever or even really somewhat upscale cheddars that I typically see from Europe.
The typical cheddars you can get in a supermarket are fine. But more expensive variants are at pretty much a different level.
Cabot Clothbound Cheddar is a pretty good compromise. It's close to English-style Cheddars and not quite as expensive as other artisanal US Cheddars. A great snacking cheese!
im glad the US has finally started making a competitive artisan cheese. For a long time cheese in the US was an exercise in economics. As farms turned into factories around 1918, byproducts started to gain a frustratingly legitimate foothold in US grocery stores. Velveeta is an example of how capitalism can push a good or service off a cliff. by 1960 most US cheese was mostly filler and byproducts. processed yellow dairy slices had displaced nearly everything on the shelf, and anything that wanted to compete had to focus on volume, not quality.
yancys in new york makes a very serviceable sharp cheddar, while Tillamook consistently turns out very good smoked cheddars. their 2010 masters reserve is heavenly.
Of course, if we follow the article, they’re not actually cheddars because they’re not made in Cheddar, but “cheddar-style cheese” or equivalent. Mind you, the US has never really cared about PDO, hence Californian “champagnes”, etc.
That's a strong statement. I've yet to come to anything even remotely close to the taste of aged (2-3 years minimum, when grains form inside) hard cheeses like Comte, Gruyere, Beaufort and probably dozen or two more, mostly french. Copies I've had, sometimes even more expensive than original, can't seriously compare (ie french versions of Gruyere vs original AOC variant, and one would expect that French would get this right).
If you actually done that comparison in person, then I believe you, otherwise, buy a plane ticket after covid. What folks here can create from raw cow/goat/sheep/buffalo milk and some bacteria (and/or worms) is ridiculously good, an universe of tastes on its own.
And I haven't even started into properly artisanal, often local-only cheeses. They are not exported even within their own country, forget to see it anywhere across the pond.
There are plenty of American cheeses that win the top prize in international competitions. Six of the eight cheddar categories at the following competition were won by US cheeses.
Wow! Six of eight domestic cheeses won at a 'world cheese' competition sponsored by the Wisconsin Cheese Makers Association. Colour me surprised! I am sure the fix was not in on that particular contest...
There actually are some good US cheeses, although oddly enough not a single one of them comes from Wisconsin to the best of my knowledge. (Vermont, Iowa, and California in case you were wondering.)
That was just the first link I found, and it was just for the first category. Other (non-US based) competitions also have winning cheeses from the US. My point was only that there are certainly good cheeses from the US. Of course, it's all subjective, so it doesn't mean that any one person will be able to find a favorite cheese from there.
[ personal background: grew up in the UK, lived in the US for 31 years, lived for extended periods in Heidelberg and Berlin, and have travelled extensively in Europe over the last 40 years. Have visited the supposedly best cheese stores in France, Spain and Germany. I live on cheese :) ]
Almost anything that goes through the the Jasper Hill Cellars in Vermont is going to give you incredible cheese (they don't make them all, but they do act as an aging facility).
Hard cheese is more of long shot in the US, although amazingly the WI-based Bellavitano brand is trying hard (admittedly a lot of the time by adding flavorings, but still ...). Landaff is another hard cheese somewhat similar to some of the tangier UK hard cheeses, but quite unique.
Cheddars in the US are nothing like UK cheddar (as the article noted). New England cheddars probably have the most complex flavor profile, as long as you stay on the "sharp" end of the scale. They are as strong as a good west country cheddar, but just different.
For soft cheeses though, OMG, an embarrassment of riches. Winnimere - unctuous, stinky, incredible. Humboldt Fog - goat, with ash layer, delicious, midway between the really strong French ripened goats and mere chevre. Oma and Moses Sleeper (both ripened at Jasper Hill) are also deep and complex.
There are a couple of blues too: Russian River (out of central CA) and Bayley Hazen are particularly interesting, though also quite unlike any of the great european blue cheeses (nobody seems to be trying this, sadly).
And these are all nationally distributed varieties. If you live in the right parts of the US, there are typically local varieties (at least of soft types, less so for hard cheeses) that will be worth trying.
None of this is to say that US cheese is "better". It's just amazing how far it has come in the last 20 years, and how good the best of it is compared to european options.
Gruyere remains unmatched anywhere. But that doesn't excuse the northern european tier (Nederlands, Germany in particular) from producing "cheese" generally better suited to filling holes in walls than eating! :)
I'm no cheese expert but I've toured parts of Europe sampling their cheeses and I completely agree: Vermont--Jasper Hill especially--has a lot of great cheeses.
American cheeses are different, though, sometimes because of pasteurization laws. If one wants a great Brie then don't get an American cheese. But if someone wants a great bloomy-rind cheese that can rival the best European cheeses try Jasper Hill's Harbison (or any of the others mentioned above).
Actually, can I just highly recommend going into the Northeast Kingdom Tasting Center in Newport, VT for all of the Jasper Hill aficionados coming out of the woodwork in this thread?
It's hilariously out of the way, but it seems that the Northeast Kingdom region of Vermont is cranking out some seriously good food and spirits. Caledonia Spirits makes two extremely solid gins, and the aperitif ciders from Eden Ciders have to be tasted to be believed.
Define "that area". :) The Alchemist Brewery in Stowe is highly rated and there are a few other craft breweries around Burlington. If you're taking Hwy 91 through the state they might be a little out of the way.
Willey's Store in Greensboro will have most of Jasper Hill cheeses for sale and maybe an experimental cheese or two. The HQ for Ben & Jerry's ice cream is in Waterbury and the tour is fun (with a free sample at the end).
Depending on when you go there will likely be farmer's markets all through the area with local producers selling all sorts of great stuff.
Here's a few more if you're taking a broad interpretation of "that area".
I haven't yet been to or tried Farnum Hill Ciders in the Lebanon, NH area, but I've heard it's worth a visit. They've been in business at least 20 years, so they must be doing something right.
Hogwash Farm has pretty solid sausage (and other meats) and sells from a farm stand. I'm sure there are many other excellent similar farms. That's just one I've tried.
Woodbelly Pizza is a mobile operation based in Montpelier does wood fired pizza that's highly worth catching. The oven is on a trailer. They might be at the Montpelier farmers' market.
Cabot used to do tour of their creamery but apparently discontinued that in 2018. They still offer samples, according to their website. Their location in Quechee also offers samples.
If you come during sugaring season, you can't throw a stone without hitting a sugar house. I haven't yet had bad maple syrup.
Less Vermont-specific, the Inn at the Long Trail is home to an Irish pub with a pretty broad selection of Irish whiskey.
And getting pretty far afield, the Euro Delli du Village in Mansonville, Quebec had some pretty damn good sandwiches when we were portaging through in 2016 or 2017. If you've made it as far as Newport VT, it's only a half hour drive (plus a border crossing, obviously).
In addition to Caledonia Spirits, Barr Hill makes a killer Gin (the vodka is totally under-appreciated, imo), and Hooker Mountain Distillery makes a bunch of interesting stuff (my favorite is Spruce), at affordable prices.
I'll cast a second vote for Bayley Hazen. It's from Jasper Hill Farm in VT, and it's unreal.
The Harbison is similarly divine. It's unusual in that it's a soft cheese wrapped in the cambium of spruce trees. If this sounds weird, it is, but the result is incredible.
I was with you until you took a shot at Dutch cheese :) What's your problem with it? I find the Netherlands (for a tiny country of 16 million) has an excellent diversity of cheeses of high quality. In every town in the country you can find supermarkets with a fantastic assortment of cheese, and in cities specialty shops with great variety. Plenty of cheese shops make their own cheeses, and it's all extremely local - a few times I've bought cheese where you can see the cows that produced it from the window!
Also, I've found myself (for the duration of the coronavirus) not too far from Vermont. Is there anywhere else you'd recommend visiting in the area aside from Jasper Hill Cellars? Thanks for the recommendation of Jasper Hill, I'll have to visit :)
> I was with you until you took a shot at Dutch cheese :) What's your problem with it?
Too much rubber :) There are some good dutch (and german) cheeses, it is true. But I find that too many of them share a texture that I have a hard time appreciating. Fine, I guess for fondue or other melting applications, but the idea of eating it as doesn't do much for me.
Another side note: I was in southern Spain in the winter of 2016/2017 and was amazed that almost none of the cheese that I could buy there seemed to be exported, and likewise, almost all of the Spanish cheese I've seen in the US and the UK was quite hard to find in Spain (regular stores, not cheese stores).
I'm just going to keep boosting Jasper Hill wherever I see it. :). I love all of their cheeses. They recently came out with a Winnimere with Barr Hill gin (another top-shelf artisanal producer in VT that makes stellar liquor). It's an embarrassment of riches indeed.
My experience is that there is phenomenal cheese on both sides of the Atlantic, so much so it's ridiculous in my mind to argue about who has the best cheese, because they both have the best cheese. It's a win-win situation.
The problem in both regions, if you want to call it a problem, is that much of the variety is in local cheeses you'll never or rarely see going outside of a zip code, state, or country (in the case of Europe). So someone will move to, say, Virginia in the US and conclude that they've sampled US cheese, not being aware of all the local cheeses in another state that never travel outside of the area of a few counties. The same thing can happen in the UK and Europe. The cheeses I've loved most have been from these local dairies, cheeses that don't quite fit into traditional categories, and that I can never find unless I'm physically in the area.
Seems like domestic goods are often more expensive than imports from Europe. I rarely drink domestic wine because Italian wines are basically free. California olive oil is $20/l at least.
Kind of a dumb choice since it is one of the few world-class US products that you can actually depend upon. If you are choosing something decent it is likely to come from the west coast of the US where the food production and environmental regulations are as good as and often superior to the EU. Unlike products produced in bulk and sold as undifferentiated commodities wine, wine is tied directly to the specific vintner and their reputation.
Right, if you want a bottle of wine that stands some chance of containing mainly grapes, you're shelling out $30/bottle for estate-bottled wines of reputable viticultural areas. It's just too expensive.
On the other hand this is why I only buy California olive oil. You never know what's in European olive oil.
California Olive Oil is fresher, the Italian imported stuff can sit in an unrefrigerated tanker for an extended period of time before being shipped across the ocean to the US.
Cooks Illustrated did a chemical analysis of olive oils a few years back, and US sourced olive oil was by far the freshest and least likely to be rancid. Some of the "authentic" Italian olive oil wasn't even 100% olive oil.
From what I can tell, California Olive Ranch's products took off right after that, since they were #1 rated. Heck when the alternative is "most likely rancid", well, I certainly switched to them as well!
FYI the "California Olive Ranch" after building their reputation now sells blends of domestic and foreign oils the California content of which ranges all the way down to zero. Not much of a surprise really since they sell at a low price into mass markets.
From what I understand, it is because a couple years ago the crop of California olives was devastated, so they started selling blends.
It looks like they are back to selling 100% California sourced olive oil, but the "Destination" series remains. At least it is all clearly labeled, but that doesn't mean much without ongoing third party testing as to the contents.
IQ tests have questions where you are presented with a phrase and are challenged to find the associations between the different phrase elements that are either present or missing.
When you are unable to infer the correct associations, your score is lower. This leads me to suspect you must have a really low IQ.
There you have your well-deserved snarky retort to your snarky comment.
But crème fraîche tastes of basically nothing and has little texture. Often sandwiches could do with a bit of salt and fat. I thing the texture of a hard cheese is works quite well and gives a sandwich a bit of bite (though it is still reasonable to have a soft cheese in a sandwich)
I grew up near Cheddar, If you were expecting an Empire of Cheese it's surprisingly modest. I recommend Wookey Hole and the area is a good place for bike rides (just not on the weekend). I seriously recommend Thatchers Gold [cider], that's probably Somerset's best export (and the Wurzels if you like cliches, only builders and farmers actually sound like that).
I thought cheddar took off because it's easy to transport and store).[/success kid]
PS: Cheddar is definitely nicer than creme fraiche (unless you enjoy soggy sandwiches, and a salad... no, just no). ;)
Wookey hole doesn't compare to many other caves really. It's a bit hokey.
That said, there are caves that you can explore with speleologists.
Also, Cheddar gorge itself is really short. The geography is interesting though. Water from mendips result in a perpetual spring in the middle of Wells. (hence the name)
And the spring in Glastonbury Tor. Probably.
PS. Area is great for good cheap cider aka scrumpy.
Was surprised to see in England that “cheddar(s)” us almost synonymous with “cheese”, to the point where it could be the sign hanging over the cheese section in a grocery store.
Is this similar to how “pudding” is used for “dessert”, or is it simply that almost all the cheese will be cheddar anyway?
Where in England was this, as none of the places I've lived do this. Signs would be Cheese or more broadly Dairy. Not that we don't have a lot of cheddar..
This was in several places including West Midlands but also other places in Britain such as Glasgow. Can’t remember which stores had ”Cheddars” over (all) the cheese, but might have been Marks & Spencer’s. This was 20 years ago, so has likely changed since.
I mean that just doesn't like something that Marks and Spencers (of all places!) would do. They sell cheese from named small farms and things and have done for the last 20 years at least.
Yes, again I’m not sure. Could have been Sainsbury’s or Tesco - I’m more trying to remember the colors of the signs and the shops I used to visit than anything else.
To be honest I think that this is a bit of hyperbole. Cheddar is certainly common, and as a simple example there will be at least three and usually four or five different varieties of house-brand cheddar (excluding different packaging and block vs. pre-grated) in any big market but there will be as much pan-European cheeses as well as other English cheese on display. This is London, so take it with an appropriate grain of salt for being both metropolitan and cosmopolitan, but no one I know of uses 'cheddar' to mean cheese in general or at least not in the same way someone from the southern US might refer to Coke as a generic for soda.
I don't want to imply neither that this is still the case (it was 20 years ago), nor that it happened everywhere (I obviously didn't visit or live in every region of britain at the time, I lived in Glasgow and visited various other parts).
What I'm 100% sure of is that it wasn't the sign for the specific cheddars part of the cheese section in in the store. I made a double take on numerous occasions because the biggest "main" navigation store signs were saying "Bread",...,"Jams", "Cheddars" etc which was the surprising bit for me as a foreigner looking for non-cheddar cheese.
In the cheddars section there were of course all sorts of cheese! Once I started noticing it I started looking for the phenomenon in stores, and it wasn't just one store. Sadly I can't remember if it was just one chain of stores (it's likely).
It's common in large European stores to relegate cheeses to their own sections. While for most anglos, cheddar is synonymous with cheese, this is not the case across the channel.
The strange part of this article is that it seems the author hasn't tasted any good English cheddar? Most of the cheese sold as cheddar bears absolutely no resemblance to cheddar, generally being flexible and springy with hardly more taste than the polyethylene wrapper.
In the postwar period this nearly became the case for all cheese in the U.K. It seemed the country was moving towards having a few varieties of highly processed, bland cheese (predominantly “cheddar”). I suppose non-bland cheeses were either to be thought of as unmodern or imported from France. Somehow a few farmhouse cheeses continued to be made and eventually became more popular. I think it is only in relatively recent decades that the variety of available cheese has shot up.
I’m not really sure why things happened this way. Maybe it was cheaper or an effect of rationing. Unlike the US, I don’t think the U.K. ever banned making cheese with raw milk so perhaps it was a trend in consumer habits rather than one encouraged by the government or industry.
A shameless plug but this seems a good place for it: I created a PWA to keep track of the cheeses I've tried. You can use it for free at www.cheesewiz.app (There are no ads; this is just a personal project.)
Cheddar refers to a place, a specific process in some kinds of hard cheese making, and to a non protected kind of cheese. You would hope all Cheddar has been through the cheddaring process. Many hard cheeses go though other processes.
Whilst I personally wish some kind of domain d'origine had applied, it is worth pointing out that stilton cannot actually be made in the village of stilton due to DOC rules: it's outside the area. Wensleydale is basically dead now, in the same sense. (I mention it because Wensleydale and red Leicester are both cheddared. I am unsure if traditional stilton is, but it has 'crumb' so it's very likely)
The boat has sailed. Cheddar is like aspirin or thermos, it's a generic. The American national cheese reserve probably is cheddared? Is pretty unlike Cheddar as I know it. If it helps preserve a milk surplus, feeds people on food stamps and helps farms, it has a role.
Cheddar gorge is lovely. They did paper making there due to water power.
Wait, what's the problem with Wensleydale? I've been eating it for a while now and I just looked it up on Wikipedia and it seems that as long as it's labeled Yorkshire Wensleydale you're getting the real stuff. Or am I eating a modern bastardization?
You're probably getting the real deal. Nobody else much is. the stuff in union-jack flagged plastic packs we get out here is pretty torrid, as is the red leicster, the 'golden delicious' of the cheese world.
When I lived in York in the 1980s there was a cheese shop just outside the city walls on the south side near the fulford road which sold hand made/artisanal wensleydale, red and stilton, and blued varieties of the wenslydale and the red. they were fantastically good.
The other thing you can't get for love nor money out here in OZ is a russet apple: you can't been wensleydale and a good crisp russet apple.
95 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 169 ms ] threadAnd that's all they say about that. Nothing about animal rights, animal welfare, or government dairy subsidies. Legend has it that at one point the US government was paying 75% of the price of dairy.
I'm not sure how it is in the UK, but if you took that out here, vegan soymilk and dairy milk would cost the same. That bugs me. It's a free market except for isolationism, cronyism, and the need for "small farmers" to act as PR fronts. Occasionally there is a good regulation that does something useful.
Im a New Zealander and it used to be a thing I’d read about and feel frustrated. However dairy farming trashes your land and waterways. Selling milk and milk powder is about the dumbest use of the land we could have come up with and it had caused massive harm.
This is because Europeans believe our agricultural peculiarities are worth protecting from the disruption of unbridled economic influences. Countries like France, Spain, or Italy, protect their milk so they can protect their cheese, so they can protect their recipes, so they can protect their food culture (and revenues) at large - a differentiator in the long term.
Some of the EU's subsidies go to "agricultural peculiarities" or small producers of niche traditional foods. That's fine, you're still propping up demand for the raw materials - that milk is just as good as any other if it comes to a crisis.
So this is either a necessary evil to correct a weird market or insane gov’t subsidy depending on your perspective.
When laws changed and made the market national, huge producers were able to takeover the market and are in the process of putting everyone out of business. Yogurt in Trader Joe’s is shipped in from LA.
Consumer prices haven’t dropped. As big producers vertically integrate, prices are going up for many commodities.
And Eugene, Oregon. TJ's French Village plain nonfat yogurt is Nancy's Yogurt from Springfield Creamery in Eugene (formerly in Springfield), run by the Kesey family.
https://nancysyogurt.com/our-creamery/
I personally can't stand the stuff. The main selling point seems to be "it melts like cheese" but in my experience, it takes on a snotty texture. It'd probably help if I was a real vegan and didn't have alternatives...
So it's taste-and-texture replication. I don't even think it is aiming to perfectly replicate dairy cheese, as much as to be something that can be reasonably substituted for dairy cheese in the typical cases where it is used. It's analogous to how soy milk isn't meant to be indistinguishable from dairy milk but instead to be usable in place of dairy milk in coffee, cereal, etc.
It isn't, indeed. I've tried a whole bunch of different vegan cheeses, and while they sometimes call them "mozzarella", "camembert" or other dairy cheese names, they do not try to match the taste. It would be an obviously losing battle as the best they could do is to be as good, most probably and understandably falling short of that. They instead create new kinds of cheese-like products, sometimes taking inspiration from dary cheeses sometimes not, and the results are actually pretty good espectially considered how recent the art of vegan cheese is!
Unrelated, but why is it American's treat soy milk this way? American brands of soy milk are terrible, while Asian brands of soy milk can taste really good.
Then there's the Real Vegan Cheese project in the East Bay, which isn't venture funded and therefor seems to be moving a bit more slowly: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/real-vegan-cheese#/
The typical cheddars you can get in a supermarket are fine. But more expensive variants are at pretty much a different level.
yancys in new york makes a very serviceable sharp cheddar, while Tillamook consistently turns out very good smoked cheddars. their 2010 masters reserve is heavenly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheddar_cheese
That's a strong statement. I've yet to come to anything even remotely close to the taste of aged (2-3 years minimum, when grains form inside) hard cheeses like Comte, Gruyere, Beaufort and probably dozen or two more, mostly french. Copies I've had, sometimes even more expensive than original, can't seriously compare (ie french versions of Gruyere vs original AOC variant, and one would expect that French would get this right).
If you actually done that comparison in person, then I believe you, otherwise, buy a plane ticket after covid. What folks here can create from raw cow/goat/sheep/buffalo milk and some bacteria (and/or worms) is ridiculously good, an universe of tastes on its own.
And I haven't even started into properly artisanal, often local-only cheeses. They are not exported even within their own country, forget to see it anywhere across the pond.
https://wccc.myentries.org/contest/results?event=63&submit=S...
There actually are some good US cheeses, although oddly enough not a single one of them comes from Wisconsin to the best of my knowledge. (Vermont, Iowa, and California in case you were wondering.)
https://gff.co.uk/awards/world-cheese-awards/
Almost anything that goes through the the Jasper Hill Cellars in Vermont is going to give you incredible cheese (they don't make them all, but they do act as an aging facility).
Hard cheese is more of long shot in the US, although amazingly the WI-based Bellavitano brand is trying hard (admittedly a lot of the time by adding flavorings, but still ...). Landaff is another hard cheese somewhat similar to some of the tangier UK hard cheeses, but quite unique.
Cheddars in the US are nothing like UK cheddar (as the article noted). New England cheddars probably have the most complex flavor profile, as long as you stay on the "sharp" end of the scale. They are as strong as a good west country cheddar, but just different.
For soft cheeses though, OMG, an embarrassment of riches. Winnimere - unctuous, stinky, incredible. Humboldt Fog - goat, with ash layer, delicious, midway between the really strong French ripened goats and mere chevre. Oma and Moses Sleeper (both ripened at Jasper Hill) are also deep and complex.
There are a couple of blues too: Russian River (out of central CA) and Bayley Hazen are particularly interesting, though also quite unlike any of the great european blue cheeses (nobody seems to be trying this, sadly).
And these are all nationally distributed varieties. If you live in the right parts of the US, there are typically local varieties (at least of soft types, less so for hard cheeses) that will be worth trying.
None of this is to say that US cheese is "better". It's just amazing how far it has come in the last 20 years, and how good the best of it is compared to european options.
Gruyere remains unmatched anywhere. But that doesn't excuse the northern european tier (Nederlands, Germany in particular) from producing "cheese" generally better suited to filling holes in walls than eating! :)
American cheeses are different, though, sometimes because of pasteurization laws. If one wants a great Brie then don't get an American cheese. But if someone wants a great bloomy-rind cheese that can rival the best European cheeses try Jasper Hill's Harbison (or any of the others mentioned above).
It's hilariously out of the way, but it seems that the Northeast Kingdom region of Vermont is cranking out some seriously good food and spirits. Caledonia Spirits makes two extremely solid gins, and the aperitif ciders from Eden Ciders have to be tasted to be believed.
Willey's Store in Greensboro will have most of Jasper Hill cheeses for sale and maybe an experimental cheese or two. The HQ for Ben & Jerry's ice cream is in Waterbury and the tour is fun (with a free sample at the end).
Depending on when you go there will likely be farmer's markets all through the area with local producers selling all sorts of great stuff.
I'll have to check those out, thanks for the recommendations! Especially the gin and cider sounds great!
I haven't yet been to or tried Farnum Hill Ciders in the Lebanon, NH area, but I've heard it's worth a visit. They've been in business at least 20 years, so they must be doing something right.
Hogwash Farm has pretty solid sausage (and other meats) and sells from a farm stand. I'm sure there are many other excellent similar farms. That's just one I've tried.
Woodbelly Pizza is a mobile operation based in Montpelier does wood fired pizza that's highly worth catching. The oven is on a trailer. They might be at the Montpelier farmers' market.
Cabot used to do tour of their creamery but apparently discontinued that in 2018. They still offer samples, according to their website. Their location in Quechee also offers samples.
If you come during sugaring season, you can't throw a stone without hitting a sugar house. I haven't yet had bad maple syrup.
Less Vermont-specific, the Inn at the Long Trail is home to an Irish pub with a pretty broad selection of Irish whiskey.
And getting pretty far afield, the Euro Delli du Village in Mansonville, Quebec had some pretty damn good sandwiches when we were portaging through in 2016 or 2017. If you've made it as far as Newport VT, it's only a half hour drive (plus a border crossing, obviously).
The Harbison is similarly divine. It's unusual in that it's a soft cheese wrapped in the cambium of spruce trees. If this sounds weird, it is, but the result is incredible.
Also, I've found myself (for the duration of the coronavirus) not too far from Vermont. Is there anywhere else you'd recommend visiting in the area aside from Jasper Hill Cellars? Thanks for the recommendation of Jasper Hill, I'll have to visit :)
Too much rubber :) There are some good dutch (and german) cheeses, it is true. But I find that too many of them share a texture that I have a hard time appreciating. Fine, I guess for fondue or other melting applications, but the idea of eating it as doesn't do much for me.
Another side note: I was in southern Spain in the winter of 2016/2017 and was amazed that almost none of the cheese that I could buy there seemed to be exported, and likewise, almost all of the Spanish cheese I've seen in the US and the UK was quite hard to find in Spain (regular stores, not cheese stores).
The problem in both regions, if you want to call it a problem, is that much of the variety is in local cheeses you'll never or rarely see going outside of a zip code, state, or country (in the case of Europe). So someone will move to, say, Virginia in the US and conclude that they've sampled US cheese, not being aware of all the local cheeses in another state that never travel outside of the area of a few counties. The same thing can happen in the UK and Europe. The cheeses I've loved most have been from these local dairies, cheeses that don't quite fit into traditional categories, and that I can never find unless I'm physically in the area.
They do get it right, it's just called Comté ;) (really - the Comté area is not very far away from Gruyères)
Personally I prefer Comté for eating and Gruyère for cooking.
Nope, I'll just buy from the EU, thanks.
On the other hand this is why I only buy California olive oil. You never know what's in European olive oil.
California Olive Oil is fresher, the Italian imported stuff can sit in an unrefrigerated tanker for an extended period of time before being shipped across the ocean to the US.
Cooks Illustrated did a chemical analysis of olive oils a few years back, and US sourced olive oil was by far the freshest and least likely to be rancid. Some of the "authentic" Italian olive oil wasn't even 100% olive oil.
From what I can tell, California Olive Ranch's products took off right after that, since they were #1 rated. Heck when the alternative is "most likely rancid", well, I certainly switched to them as well!
It looks like they are back to selling 100% California sourced olive oil, but the "Destination" series remains. At least it is all clearly labeled, but that doesn't mean much without ongoing third party testing as to the contents.
When you are unable to infer the correct associations, your score is lower. This leads me to suspect you must have a really low IQ.
There you have your well-deserved snarky retort to your snarky comment.
When you eat toothpaste, does more fluoride make it taste better?
https://hn.algolia.com/?q=toothpaste
Anyway, who could possibly outdo:
Show HN: I invented a caffeinated toothpaste( https://www.powertoothpaste.com/ )
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12504012
http://toothpastefordinner.com/
I thought cheddar took off because it's easy to transport and store).[/success kid]
PS: Cheddar is definitely nicer than creme fraiche (unless you enjoy soggy sandwiches, and a salad... no, just no). ;)
That said, there are caves that you can explore with speleologists.
Also, Cheddar gorge itself is really short. The geography is interesting though. Water from mendips result in a perpetual spring in the middle of Wells. (hence the name)
And the spring in Glastonbury Tor. Probably.
PS. Area is great for good cheap cider aka scrumpy.
Source: I grew up in Dorset and was a teenager.
Is this similar to how “pudding” is used for “dessert”, or is it simply that almost all the cheese will be cheddar anyway?
I don't want to imply neither that this is still the case (it was 20 years ago), nor that it happened everywhere (I obviously didn't visit or live in every region of britain at the time, I lived in Glasgow and visited various other parts).
What I'm 100% sure of is that it wasn't the sign for the specific cheddars part of the cheese section in in the store. I made a double take on numerous occasions because the biggest "main" navigation store signs were saying "Bread",...,"Jams", "Cheddars" etc which was the surprising bit for me as a foreigner looking for non-cheddar cheese.
In the cheddars section there were of course all sorts of cheese! Once I started noticing it I started looking for the phenomenon in stores, and it wasn't just one store. Sadly I can't remember if it was just one chain of stores (it's likely).
The anglos across the channel have literally hundreds of different types of regional cheese. Cheddar is not synonymous with cheese here.
I’m not really sure why things happened this way. Maybe it was cheaper or an effect of rationing. Unlike the US, I don’t think the U.K. ever banned making cheese with raw milk so perhaps it was a trend in consumer habits rather than one encouraged by the government or industry.
PDO and A(d')OC are such a scam. Cheddar refers to a style of cheese, Champagne refers to a style of wine. Bah humbug.
Whilst I personally wish some kind of domain d'origine had applied, it is worth pointing out that stilton cannot actually be made in the village of stilton due to DOC rules: it's outside the area. Wensleydale is basically dead now, in the same sense. (I mention it because Wensleydale and red Leicester are both cheddared. I am unsure if traditional stilton is, but it has 'crumb' so it's very likely)
The boat has sailed. Cheddar is like aspirin or thermos, it's a generic. The American national cheese reserve probably is cheddared? Is pretty unlike Cheddar as I know it. If it helps preserve a milk surplus, feeds people on food stamps and helps farms, it has a role.
Cheddar gorge is lovely. They did paper making there due to water power.
When I lived in York in the 1980s there was a cheese shop just outside the city walls on the south side near the fulford road which sold hand made/artisanal wensleydale, red and stilton, and blued varieties of the wenslydale and the red. they were fantastically good.
The other thing you can't get for love nor money out here in OZ is a russet apple: you can't been wensleydale and a good crisp russet apple.
I went on a couple of school trips to Cheddar Gorge. It's a beautiful place. The highlight for me was Wookey Hole and the stories of the witch.
I'm a big cheddar fan and I had never heard of this:
> Aged cheddar, like other hard, aged cheeses, is very low in lactose.
Also, the snippet about cheddar growing in popularity due to its ease of transport (spoils slower due to less moisture content) is interesting.