Biochar is very interesting topic I got introduced to by the son of a Biodynamic farmer I worked for in Schwaebisch Gmuend, he had done his last year of undergrad studies for his Ag degree in Africa to try and utilize this method to re-rehabilitate the soil by introducing micro-organisms alongside subsistence farmers. Biodynamics, after you remove the often over-emphasized 'woo-woo' aspect (which I personally enjoy, but can be off-putting to the uninitiated) of it from Steiner, is actually just really sound Microbiology and Astronomy.
The surface area you create via pyrolysis in organic matter to create the bio-char for microoragnisms is actually really impressive and a low cost way to maintain soil fertility.
Graham Hancock actually made the point in his book America Before [1], that Amazonian People actually cultivated the Amazon Forest as we would with Nature Preserves in National Forests. Its a pretty interesting perspective I never considered being from the West and took the Amazon for granted, but it makes sense when your way of life relies on Natural Paganism and Biodiversity the abundance of of wild-life to help feed your People.
A professor of mine first exposed me to biochar and its usage in creating Terra Preta[1]. It's fascinating. I think you are definitely correct in the 'woo-woo' assessment. But I know if people can get past that, talking about this is worthwhile. From what I know, biochar is a big component in making this terra preta soil, and you don't see it mentioned much outside certain circles. So I'm excited to see mention of it on HN.
I've always wondered why this hasn't caught on (presuming it isn't all woo) -- it can't be that expensive to run a few large-scale tests at, say, an ag school's farms. Would modern farming practices defeat the purpose somehow?
One big limitation is that you can only capture the value created on your own farm, but not the downstream effects.
There are lots of “prisoners dilemma” food production methods where everyone is better off if nobody exploits (eg: salmon runs are not owned by anyone in particular, so maintaining them is a matter for underfunded parks departments, but properly maintained they produce astonishing amounts of delicious food).
The comment is about Rudolf Steiner and the anthroposophic movement where many of the permaculture (but also a lot of lets say more questionable) ideas have been popular:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture
Thanks! Reading through the approach it does seem esoteric part is quite limited to small things like the moon calendar and using "magic" fertilizers.. I wonder how widespread those approaches really are.
They are quite widespread for one reason: certificates. Demeter is one of the oldest and most strict organic certificates and also probably the most powerful. If a farmer really wants to do sustainable agriculture, it makes sense to go for the demeter certificates as it is well known and generally one of the best paying. Unfortunately, to get it you have to take part in the stupid 'magic' to get it.
(That and I really feel irritated when I go to an organic bakery and they also try to sell you energized water. On my last skiing trip they sold home made lemonade but with Grander water. I asked whether I could get it without and they told me that is not possible and why the hell would you opt-out if you do not believe in it. Didn't make it cheaper for me though, and they certaily pay quite a bit for that fraud.)
> The comment is about Rudolf Steiner and the anthroposophic movement where many of the permaculture (but also a lot of lets say more questionable) ideas have been popular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture
I like how I no longer have to explain something like this entirely by myself on a VC based Technology forum: progress has been made to say the least!
Correct, this is about Anthroposophia, or much of what I regarded as 'woo' in my initial response. its mandatory reading and learning in Demeter certified Ag practices/apprenticeships. As a Biologist not only was I entirely skeptical, I sought out to disprove it all.
However, the chef in me just couldn't fathom why the products tasted so much better, so when Ipaid off my student debt I undertook a 2.5 year apprenticeship in Europe (mainly Germany were it has the most Demeter certified cultivated hectares in the World, despite it being an Austrian method) while I also worked and eventually ran Agro-tourism kitchens.
Its also worth noting that Waldorfschules/Steiner-schools are also tied to these practices and is part of the curriculum.
As for the validity, I'm a Cellular-Molecular Biologist, and I spent 3.5 years in a lab doing diagnostics specifically focused on Leukemia and Lymphoma.
Suffice it to say I know how to work in a laboratory setting and know how to create experimental designs. I conducted approximately 250 controlled experiments from all the farms I worked on (some just Bio/Organic and Permaculture as well as my Biodynamic ones in various countries) that mainly tested planting and weeding, the planting/seeding/transplanting yielded far more favorable results when I followed the lunar calendar then not.
Things like weeding and when to start a compost were not as objectively provable. Things like pest control, or water-hat things were not something I sough to test more than once after it didn't do anything noticeable. It felt very 'energy crystal' to me and I needed to focus my time on more pertinent matters as I was also running working in the farmer stands, CSA program, Kindergarten/special needs student garden programs as well as running Kitchens.
Suffice it to say, my time was often limited as an apprentice and I was spread very thin; so it wouldn't be until I managed a farm in Hawaii with completely different settings that I'd get to the watering aspect in earnest.
Specifically the aeration of water sources (turbulence/chaos) you use when making those preps and the water sources. This was later seen in the MJ industry and competitions for the largest height and canopy was often won by growers with not only the right genetics but had also used water aeration frequently into the root system. The methods have merit, but the 'woo' is what throws people off.
AThe preps used (502-507) are actually grounded in very sound Microbiology, all you are doing is re-introducing the flora/fauna found in the soil from the previous year into the top soil before planting an ideally crop rotated set of cultures into the prepared soil. Its the equivalent of probiotics for the soil and getting it ready to ensure the roots of the starter plants or seeds are starting off as best as possible.
Conventional farmers will argue NPK ratios are the holy grail, and a small number will even care about pH, but in doing so they negate not just the sustainability, but that of the depletion of the soils ability to recreate those nutrients themselves as seen in biodyanmics with having had ruminants graze the land prior to the planting season. A biodynamic farm, and to a much lesser degree permaculture, seek to find a balance in which external inputs are no longer needed and developing its own terroir and equilibrium with the output. In a Biodynamic farm its perhaps like one approaches a savings account, and the soil is the unit of ...
It is not pseudo-science - it just hasn't been taken seriously by current _market_ leaders in the agricultural science market.
That is not the same as being a pseudo-science.
There are a lot of discoveries in agriculture that aren't taken seriously by mainstream researchers, because they work for market-dominating entities who can't profit when people start growing their own food gardens.
Rigorous science requires a great deal of validation. Woo-woo 'energy fields' - okay, sure. But I don't think enough has been done on the subject of lunar cycles and plant health, and that's one of the issues I have with lumping all "biodynamic agriculture" under the same pretext.
I can say that what I've seen with my own eyes: crops which were planted during a full moon versus crops (from the same seedlings) going in a week later, is that the moon-crops were bigger, juicier, and more resilient to problems - this over multiple years, in my own personal garden, under the watchful eye of my own gardener, whose opinion I trust inherently ..
Thing is that the idea has merit if it has been proven in double blind scenarios with controls.
This is not the case here.
We might not know everything about biological processes in agriculture and all the variables that come into play, however that doesn't mean that any idea that isn't part of "mainstream" agriculture has merit on its own.
We live in an age of mass production, I wonder what company would try to block farmers from producing more.
Also, no company can stop independent farmers from starting a biodynamic farm and produce more than their competitors thus being able to have even better margins.
So I think we can safely classify those kinds of worries in the "conspiracy theory" until proven otherwise.
Oh, I think you're being specious if you really have an interest in this subject but can't name a single company that would try to block farmers producing more using techniques from which the company can't derive profit... But hey, if you want to use the old 'conspiracy theory' saw to end the discussion, fine with me.
I highly recommend the book "1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus" by Charles Mann which among others goes into this topic as well. It really changed my conceptions about ancient civilizations in the Americas.
I put all the ashes from my wood stove in the winter on my vegetable garden and fruit trees. The ash is rich in calcium, potash, minerals and trace elements. I only avoid using it on the potatoes, the calcium provides a thicker skin, which I don't like.
25 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 63.5 ms ] threadThe surface area you create via pyrolysis in organic matter to create the bio-char for microoragnisms is actually really impressive and a low cost way to maintain soil fertility.
Graham Hancock actually made the point in his book America Before [1], that Amazonian People actually cultivated the Amazon Forest as we would with Nature Preserves in National Forests. Its a pretty interesting perspective I never considered being from the West and took the Amazon for granted, but it makes sense when your way of life relies on Natural Paganism and Biodiversity the abundance of of wild-life to help feed your People.
1: https://www.amazon.com/America-Before-Earths-Lost-Civilizati...
1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta
There are lots of “prisoners dilemma” food production methods where everyone is better off if nobody exploits (eg: salmon runs are not owned by anyone in particular, so maintaining them is a matter for underfunded parks departments, but properly maintained they produce astonishing amounts of delicious food).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demeter_International
(That and I really feel irritated when I go to an organic bakery and they also try to sell you energized water. On my last skiing trip they sold home made lemonade but with Grander water. I asked whether I could get it without and they told me that is not possible and why the hell would you opt-out if you do not believe in it. Didn't make it cheaper for me though, and they certaily pay quite a bit for that fraud.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Grander
Your lemonade experience may be an example of the "tyranny of minorities" :-)
I like how I no longer have to explain something like this entirely by myself on a VC based Technology forum: progress has been made to say the least!
Correct, this is about Anthroposophia, or much of what I regarded as 'woo' in my initial response. its mandatory reading and learning in Demeter certified Ag practices/apprenticeships. As a Biologist not only was I entirely skeptical, I sought out to disprove it all.
However, the chef in me just couldn't fathom why the products tasted so much better, so when Ipaid off my student debt I undertook a 2.5 year apprenticeship in Europe (mainly Germany were it has the most Demeter certified cultivated hectares in the World, despite it being an Austrian method) while I also worked and eventually ran Agro-tourism kitchens.
Its also worth noting that Waldorfschules/Steiner-schools are also tied to these practices and is part of the curriculum.
As for the validity, I'm a Cellular-Molecular Biologist, and I spent 3.5 years in a lab doing diagnostics specifically focused on Leukemia and Lymphoma.
Suffice it to say I know how to work in a laboratory setting and know how to create experimental designs. I conducted approximately 250 controlled experiments from all the farms I worked on (some just Bio/Organic and Permaculture as well as my Biodynamic ones in various countries) that mainly tested planting and weeding, the planting/seeding/transplanting yielded far more favorable results when I followed the lunar calendar then not.
Things like weeding and when to start a compost were not as objectively provable. Things like pest control, or water-hat things were not something I sough to test more than once after it didn't do anything noticeable. It felt very 'energy crystal' to me and I needed to focus my time on more pertinent matters as I was also running working in the farmer stands, CSA program, Kindergarten/special needs student garden programs as well as running Kitchens.
Suffice it to say, my time was often limited as an apprentice and I was spread very thin; so it wouldn't be until I managed a farm in Hawaii with completely different settings that I'd get to the watering aspect in earnest.
Specifically the aeration of water sources (turbulence/chaos) you use when making those preps and the water sources. This was later seen in the MJ industry and competitions for the largest height and canopy was often won by growers with not only the right genetics but had also used water aeration frequently into the root system. The methods have merit, but the 'woo' is what throws people off.
AThe preps used (502-507) are actually grounded in very sound Microbiology, all you are doing is re-introducing the flora/fauna found in the soil from the previous year into the top soil before planting an ideally crop rotated set of cultures into the prepared soil. Its the equivalent of probiotics for the soil and getting it ready to ensure the roots of the starter plants or seeds are starting off as best as possible.
Conventional farmers will argue NPK ratios are the holy grail, and a small number will even care about pH, but in doing so they negate not just the sustainability, but that of the depletion of the soils ability to recreate those nutrients themselves as seen in biodyanmics with having had ruminants graze the land prior to the planting season. A biodynamic farm, and to a much lesser degree permaculture, seek to find a balance in which external inputs are no longer needed and developing its own terroir and equilibrium with the output. In a Biodynamic farm its perhaps like one approaches a savings account, and the soil is the unit of ...
That is not the same as being a pseudo-science.
There are a lot of discoveries in agriculture that aren't taken seriously by mainstream researchers, because they work for market-dominating entities who can't profit when people start growing their own food gardens.
All research papers linked show that biodynamic agriculture is similar to alchemy.
Do you have scientific sources that show any advantages of biodynamic agriculture over regular biological agriculture?
I can say that what I've seen with my own eyes: crops which were planted during a full moon versus crops (from the same seedlings) going in a week later, is that the moon-crops were bigger, juicier, and more resilient to problems - this over multiple years, in my own personal garden, under the watchful eye of my own gardener, whose opinion I trust inherently ..
In the absence of a specific mechanism it seems very implausible that the full moon has a measurable positive effect on the plants.
This is not the case here.
We might not know everything about biological processes in agriculture and all the variables that come into play, however that doesn't mean that any idea that isn't part of "mainstream" agriculture has merit on its own.
Agricultural-science is fraught with misdeed.
Also, no company can stop independent farmers from starting a biodynamic farm and produce more than their competitors thus being able to have even better margins.
So I think we can safely classify those kinds of worries in the "conspiracy theory" until proven otherwise.
When asked for sources you answer with obscure conspiracy theories which are again, not backed up.
I'm sorry but science it built on stronger principles than this.