Key point here is that you probably fixed your sleep schedule sometime after high school. Coffee dependency is a pretty common hotfix for a poor sleep schedule. Once you take away the poor sleep schedule, coffee becomes less necessary and more a nice to have.
It'd be interesting seeing the long term effects high school sleep schedules have on people. I wouldn't be surprised if poor sleep patterns in adolescence lead to insomnia and other issues later in life. I definitely felt like my high school sleeping patterns were damaging to my mental and physical health.
Wonder how much of the crash is from coffee vs the sugar (the post mentions hazelnut lattes which should be called hazelnut-flavored coffee/sugar drinks).
Sugar definitely induces crashes, but caffeine by itself does as well. My flirtations with coffee/sugar monstrosities were temporary; I mostly drank espresso-based drinks without sugar or sweeteners.
Perhaps, but at 10 beverages a day caffeine is only part of the problem since they were no longer drinking black coffee. Even plain cow's milk on its own has some sugar.
I went very strictly non-sugar for a month or two a year or two back. I noticed that I had no desire for caffiene in the morning (not that I am a huge drinker, but maybe a couple of mugs of green tea to get me going).
For anyone that tries this, don't naively go cold turkey and expect just a headache.
It generally takes 12 days before your body resets it's relevant receptors for caffeine consumption. E.g if you drink three coffees a day and barely feel a hit, you need to go cold turkey for 12 days. After that the impact of coffee should be more significant. (1) (edit: sources state 2 weeks to 2 months in fact!)
I decided to give it a go a few years ago and fuck me. The come down sucked. The first few days were okish. Slight headache.
But from the 3rd day for about 4-5 days. I had a headache that'd compete with my past migraines. I was nauseated and was throwing up several times a day. These stopped at roughly day 8 or day 9.
I didn't consider myself a heavy coffee drinker either. Perhaps 2-3 coffees a day, these were double shot espresso's.
My colleagues hilariously wrote a medical blog to document my descent into madness. I'll try and dig it up.
I did it a couple months ago. I've been drinking 3 - 5 cups a day(sometimes more) for years. I just slowly went from drinking it throughout the whole day eliminating cups until I had 1 cup in the morning. This was over 2 weeks. Then I slowly reduced that 1 cup until nothing. Then I switched to a single cup of green tea in the morning just for the ritual.
The lack of caffeine hasn't really had any effect on my psoriasis or stress levels, so maybe it was all for nothing.
I did it because when I was on an elimination diet, it was recommended to quit caffeine too. Hasn't seemed to have much effect. I sleep the same, still grind my teeth, still have psoriasis. I've cut everything from diet except salt, vegetables, fruit and fish.
I don't need to lose weight though. Diet more for just other health reasons. 5' 11" 165lb. I could probably lose a little belly fat, but nothing crazy right now.
Maybe medically fine, but that doesn’t mean it is ideal. And how fine it is varies (drastically, I think) from person to person. I know caffeine is horrible for me, even 150 mg/day - it disrupts my sleep, clouds my thinking, and makes me more irritable (not helpful as a trial attorney). I started drinking it late in life (32 then, 38 now) and every time I quit I feel infinitely healthier. I am 5 days in to (hopefully) quitting caffeine forever. For me, it is a drug worse than alcohol. I have a feeling a lot of people are in this boat and just don’t realize it because they have been consuming caffeine beverages for so long.
Cups or mugs? Most of us, when we pour a mug of coffee, pour about 12 ounces, which is a cup (8 oz) and a half. So if you have two mugs of coffee, you're actually drinking about 3 cups.
I've heard this too but need to see the numbers. I wonder if it's the caffeine per dry weight or per brewed serve. But don't get me started on what a serving of coffee is.
Coffee has 163mg per cup, black tea 42mg and green tea 25mg.[0][1][2]
1kg of dry tea does have more caffeine than 1kg of coffee beans, according to Wikipedia[3]
> Tea contains more caffeine than coffee by dry weight. A typical serving, however, contains much less, since less of the product is used as compared to an equivalent serving of coffee. Also contributing to caffeine content are growing conditions, processing techniques, and other variables. Thus, teas contain varying amounts of caffeine
Also kinda interesting: I've often seen people opt for an espresso instead op a cup of coffee, because they say they need the caffeine. But an espresso has only 77mg of caffeine, way less caffeine than a cup of coffee. [4] (Unless you fill a coffee cup with espresso shots, but who does that?)
It's worth noting that tea also contains theanine, in addition to caffeine. Theanine binds to glutamate receptors and increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain.
There is considerable amount of caffiene in tea as well but it’s absorbed slower by the body than from coffee and most tea has L-Theanine, which is an amino acid which attenuates the caffiene high that is usually present from coffee.
I had a very similar experience. 3+ cups per day minimum for over a decade, phased out over two weeks with no withdrawal at all. Didn't drink coffee for the better part of a year looking for a benefit.
Also noted no improvement with my psoriasis, no increased alertness, sleep felt the same, and actually gained weight over that time period.
There is peer reviewed evidence that caffeine increases your metabolism, so it would make sense that you would gain weight after cessation. I’m in a weight loss phase and have upped my caffeine intake for that reason.
Drug sensitivity is always such a strange thing to me. It strikes me as having characteristics of qualia - to you, going cold turkey on caffeine was apparently monstrous, but I've had the exact opposite experiences. I drink a lot of coffee, 3 cups a day average, but if I stop for a day or three or a week I certainly don't feel any pain, just a different focus.
I stop for a full week every year. I drink 3-4 rather strong cups every day (no coffee after 4pm), but only 1 cup daily on weekends. Only symptom for me when I don't have caffeine is being a little harder to focus, but that's not a problem for me when I don't need to code.
I went cold turkey once. I had a horrible headache that kept me bedridden for a whole day. After that the headache went away but I couldn't keep my eyes open by around noon.
I decided to wean off of coffee and that worked better.
I was a heavy coffee drinker most of my life and had to stop cold turkey and did so for a month due to GI issues. Had a headache the first days, but was fine otherwise.
Now I just do half caf and have two cups a day and found a nice balance of not being too dependent on the caffeine.
More than the caffeine I love the taste of good coffee, so I can live with the reduced caffeine.
Not everyone has extreme withdrawal from stopping caffeine.
I quit caffeine all together before, and the way I did it was that I tapered for SIX MONTHS! That's probably overkill but by the time I was ready to quit completely, everything was fine.
Unfortunately, I picked up the habit again after my son was born, for reasons I shouldn't have to explain. Once he's sleeping more consistently I'd like to quit caffeine again, hopefully over a shorter period of time.
This happened to me recently as well, on a smaller scale.
I typically consume 1 double-shot espresso, 1 green tea, 1 small cup of brew, and sometimes decaf in a day. It's mostly just a part of my work day routine. I used to go some weekend day without caffeine altogether.
Since working remotely at home I don't have a specific caffeine schedule and lost track of my consumption. After one long weekend I didn't consume much/any caffeine but I didn't realize this. On Monday my stomach was uneasy so I drank some water and avoided caffeine because on an empty stomach it can make me feel worse. The next thing that happened was inconceivable. I was curled up in bed clutching my stomach in agony for several hours. It wasn't extreme discomfort but just enough that I didn't want to do anything else. After it eased I had a coffee and everything magically felt perfectly normal. The next day I started to get that same feeling and immediately had a coffee. My day went fine.
I quit coffee after drinking 2-3 cups a day to cold turkey.
I had minor discomforts, a bit of a light headache but it was extremely easy.
Readers of HN: This is not some generic withdrawal that happens to everyone unless we have data that proves with randomized trail. My anecdote completely contrasts with the parent and both opinions need to be taken as a grain of salt.
I decided to quit at the beginning of the quarantine.
The first couple days were annoying, but tolerable. Just a general tiredness. The for days 5 to 8, I probably clocked in 12 to 14 hours of sleep a day.
I was drinking 3 or so grande/venti coffees a day.
>> I realized that coffee was useful in technical, creative work not because it increases wakefulness, but because it increases focus.
You know what else increases focus and also wakefulness, concentration, creativity, productivity, etc, etc? A good night's sleep. Then you wake up early in the morning with your mind razor sharp and you have a good five to six hours of uninterrupted work at the top of your game. Then lunch, a little 15 minute nap and off you go, for another five or six hours. That's how you get through 12-hour working days without dosing yourself with anything that ultimately destroys your ability to think straight, even as it makes you think you're awake (when you're actually half asleep).
Health issues will affect your ability to concentrate and focus anyway. Babies grow up eventually. The trick is to not accept sleepingg for three or four hours each night as normal.
For a couple years, I had strange heart palpitations. It became increasingly frequent and bad to the point that it'd feel like my heart stopped for 10 seconds, or it was trying to burst out of my chest for a minute, or the arteries in my neck throbbed so hard it hurt.
I quit drinking coffee, and two weeks later, these issues stopped entirely. I haven't felt them in about 3 years. I was usually only drinking two cups a day (albeit very large and very strong cups), but it seems to have been enough to really wear out my body.
On the other hand, since giving up coffee, I've basically lost my ability to focus on difficult things. Coffee never really helped me stay awake, but damn did it help me work. Sometimes I'll have a cup, but then I think that I kind of feel something in my chest and decide to quit drinking for a few more months.
You ever talk to a doctor about your focus problems? There are all kinds of medical issues from nutrition deficiencies to ADHD to sleep disorders that can cause focus problems.
You should really go see a doctor. That sounds like you have at the very least hypertension and maybe even something worse. Don't wait until it's too late to find out.
I went a few times and they couldn't find anything wrong. It likely just came down to caffeine consumption. My blood pressure is a little on the low side of normal, so hypertension thankfully isn't the problem.
Same boat. I -love- coffee. Heart started skipping so erratically that I went to the ER. Followup with a cardiologist who told me 'no more caffeine.'. Never bothered me a day in my life til age 34, apparently.
Edit to add - Actually, about a year prior to that, had really bad GERD start out of nowhere. The doctor there also said to stop drinking caffeine. Apparently it's really bad for your stomach muscles. I didn't listen of course, until my heart was involved.
Sounds like you had panic attacks. Those can definitely be triggered by excessive caffeine intake and poor sleep which is often a byproduct. But to the best of my knowledge, you cannot actually get a heart attack from drinking coffee. At least not if it is not something completely insane like 100 cups/day.
This happens to me if I don’t exercise for a while or don’t sleep well. I sleep well, it mostly goes away. I start exercising again, it goes away and doesn’t come back.
So the author was so opposed to preparing coffee at home (or anything in his kitchen, like he admitted) that he managed to kick a lifelong addiction?
This compounded by his claimed of being an addict rather than an afficianado (so he could prettiest much consume home made instant or drip coffee) makes me question the severity of his claimed addiction.
To be clear, I congratulate the authors for kicking the addiction, but the story seems a bit ludicrous.
If it hadn't been for COVID-19, which was a logistically unbelievably stressful time, I would've probably purchased a coffee maker. (There was a coffee machine in my building that I used frequently, but the building made it inaccessible due to perceived COVID contamination risks.) But dealing with tons of COVID fallout, that just didn't make it to the top of my priority list.
I use the word "addict" loosely -- I'm not sure how much real chemical dependency there was, I didn't have much in the way of withdrawal symptoms. I have anecdotally observed that people have radically different biological responses to and dependencies on caffeine. I think my "addiction" was mostly cultural.
Reminded me of those stories of war people taking drugs because the environment triggered the desire in them.
If being outside was the trigger, staying inside would make it easy to quit. On the other hand, going outside again would trigger again the addiction, so it never went away in the first place.
Instant coffee isn't even that bad. And that Korean whipped coffee has been making the social media rounds, it doesn't take much in resources or gadgets to make.
I wonder if it's maybe a cultural thing. Where I grew up in the United States it would be almost unheard of not to own a coffee pot. But I've also worked with people (from parts of Asia, in particular) where they didn't know how to operate a drip coffee maker and only kept instant around, despite how much coffee they would drink every day.
It's definitely at least a contingent thing. I was completely fine with instant coffee in college, nowadays I can't stand it. (Would I like it if it weren't labeled - I dunno, I haven't done a blinded trial.)
When I was an expat in Japan, I was quite taken with the design of the single serve pour over coffee packets that were sold nearly everywhere. Each packet contained a folded origami filter that was itself filled with ready to brew ground coffee. So to make pour over coffee, all you had to do was unfold the filter, place it over a single cup, and pour some boiling water over it. That’s it — no other equipment required, not even a pour over cone! Far better tasting than instant, although it generated a bit more waste. Granted, it assumes the presence of an electric kettle, but nearly every household has one of those.
Good for you! Several years back my team at work used to joke about my caffeine intake... it was just a compulsion that when my cup was empty I'd get more coffee. I found that the beneficial effects plateaued around cup four every day, and beyond that it was pure habit (I'd get the crashes later in the day but more caffeine wouldn't help much).
I was down to about 2 cups a day at work, but now that I'm home all the time, I'm back up to four. It's just... comforting to have in my hand.
I've been drinking decaf for years. It's hard to get a good tasting decaf blend, but if you don't drink much caffeine decaf will wake you up, you can drink more cups a day (if that's your thing) and it's healthier.
Frankly, I'm surprised decaf is not more popular. It is possible to make decaf taste so good you'd never know it's decaf.
I think there is no evidence whatsover that coffee is in any way bad for you. In fact, some studies point to slight benefits in lifelong coffee drinkers.
In that quote you picked he's referencing the amount of caffeine. With high level consumption the side effects are more pronounced. If you drop the "healthy/unhealthy" monikers when researching, there's a clearer picture of that since "healthy" is such a loaded term.
My local roaster's decaf is seriously the best I've ever had, swiss water method and really good beans. I do a half/half with their caffeinated blends and I love it. In the afternoon, I'll do just the decaf and it's really smooth and flavourful.
Before I commented I didn't even check to see if their coffee was on that site's list and it is!! I'm super excited about all the quality decafs they offer. Thank you!
>>
For me, this triggered careful introspection about whether I really derived pleasure from the things I claimed to like, or whether those claims were really just signaling about the person I would like to be, rather than who I actually am.
This resonates with me. But I think sometimes these aspirational affectations, once identified, are better preserved. If there’s any chance that they may one day ring true, they can serve as a worthwhile reminder of what one is striving toward.
For coffee culture in particular it's strange, because what's the aspiration? To drink lots of coffee? Great, but I struggle to find a higher purpose in that.
In coffee culture, there's some common sense of belonging and easy identification with others -- drinking lots of coffee is like being a fan of a popular sports team. It makes for an easy catchphrase and set of jokes that can go on T-Shirts or Tinder bios. It's an easy way to create a persona, and stereotype yourself a little for others to feel like they get you more easily -- "that's Jay, he's 6 feet tall, loves coffee and flying kites, rides a motorcycle". But, at least to me, it felt like a bland or uninteresting thing to advertise about myself.
There's an image that comes along with coffee culture. I don't know if it was intentionally done by Big Coffee (TM) but coffee for many people has become a symbol of the working man. People want that "get a coffee and then head to the office" kind of feel. It's also a symbol of inspiration/aspiration. Think of starving artists caffeinating themselves while splashing paint at a canvas.
Part of it might be that coffee is very aesthetically trendy. A cup looks good, and lends itself well to photography. Lots of cafes are really beautifully designed. It's a cool vibe, just by association.
I've generally quit caffeine a few times in my life, it was always the right thing to do.
In my older age, I'm able to moderate a lot better, I really couldn't just drink a single soda or green tea, but now I'm a lot more comfortable drinking caffeine in the morning, then switching to something else the rest of the day.
When I first stopped, I had been also drinking sugary soda - so I switched to diet soda as a crutch, it definitely helped me make the transition.
My COVID coffee experience was the opposite- I have been drinking half a pot every morning since mid-March. Last night I had the thought that I should go cold turkey, and this blog post might be the last little push I needed to do it.
I try to keep it minimal--partly because I want to avoid heavy dependency and partly just to be frugal. That said, I had stopped buying coffee from the place next to work during the week and only made enough for two mugs (one for me, one for SO) on weekends.
Now that I'm working from home and have the time in the morning, I make the same two mugs' worth most days. I don't feel awful about it because one mug (probably around a cup and a half worth) most days isn't a crazy amount. Still, I buy decent beans ($10-15 for a one-pound bag) and go through it in a couple of weeks. I consider it a minor vice and surely healthier than the couple of beers I've been drinking most evenings.
I used to experience late day crashes and headaches quite frequently, and also chalked that up to excessive coffee intake. However, as someone who also spent little time in the kitchen (thinking I didn't have time for it), it turned out to be my haphazard style of intermittent fasting that was giving me the headaches. Now I spend no more than an hour or so each night making food with leftovers for lunch the following day, and my life has improved phenomenally. YMMV but I still drink plenty of coffee.
Lately I've been experimenting with regular caffeine resets to avoid tolerance. I'm following a two weeks on / 1 week off schedule.
I also use caffeine tablets instead of coffee, and limit myself to 50-100mg, usually taken in smaller doses throughout the day. Combined with the regular reset weeks, this so far seems to be enough to boost my energy without giving me jitters and other issues.
I had a somewhat similar trajectory to the author with coffee. I started drinking it in highschool and loved it. I didn't have quite as bad a sleep schedule as him, but it was bad, and coffee was the band-aid. Then I got to college and really went nuts. I used to just get coffee in the morning, then it was before every class, then after class too, and in the evening when I was doing homework. Every coffee shop had free refills, it was so cheap. Eventually I got to the point where I was drinking 10-15 cups a day, and I was starting to have a lot of trouble sleeping, presumably due to drinking it late into the evening.
Then one day I just decided to stop, and it was shockingly easy. I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms, not even a headache, I didn't feel particularly tired. And I started sleeping better so I quickly felt less tired. I think my dependence on coffee was entirely psychological, there wasn't really a physical component to it.
I haven't really had coffee, or any caffeine since then. I went through a period of drinking decaf, but found that even the little bit of caffeine in that messed with my sleep. Or it was just a placebo affect that made me too anxious to fall asleep, still not really sure which it was. The only thing I really miss is the taste, every time I walk by a coffee shop and smell it I get a wave of nostalgia. But oh well, I like sleep a lot better than coffee.
This was my experience as well. I had little in the way of actual withdrawal symptoms. My dependence was mostly psychological or cultural.
Anecdotally, I think it's really interesting that people have radically different biological responses to caffeine. I have friends who drink much less than I did, but are hardcore dependent. I know people who get real headaches and jitters from tiny cups of coffee. I wonder if this heterogeneity is the case for many stimulants, or if there's something special and unusual about caffeine.
I go for the pharmaceutical grade caffeine, Tazo Chai tea. Ingredients: “An infusion (of water, black tea, black pepper, ginger, cardamom, cinnamon, cloves, star anise, natural flavors), cane sugar, honey, ginger juice, natural flavors, vanilla extract, citric acid”. Notice sugar low on the list, after all the good stuff that gets you wired. Its all the buzz with less crash.
Sugar appearing low on an informally written ingredient list like that doesn't indicate relative quantity. Looking at the nutrition info, that stuff appears to contain substantially more sugar by volume than pretty much any soft drink.
Edit: actually maybe that list is supposed to indicate relative quantity; they just get around sugar being the second and third ingredients by lumping a bunch of stuff in with water.
I drink a lot of coffee (3-4 ~ 10oz cups per day). I periodically stopped drinking any caffeine sources cold turkey for months (probably 6 or 7 times over the past decade).
I’ve never experienced any form of side effect. No headaches, crashes, cravings, nothing. Likewise, when I resume drinking coffee again later, it takes the same 3-4 cups per day to feel any kind of impact.
Similarly I can drink coffee all day, and often really enjoy an espresso after dinner instead of dessert, with zero impact on sleep.
I don’t know if I am just a weirdo who can metabolize caffeine differently or what, but I’ve never had any kind of headache / jitters / withdrawal / strong craving / whatever, neither from drinking a lot of coffee or a little or switching between the two states over long or short periods of time.
I've always drunk a lot of caffeine and honestly people make it sounds like they're doing heroin when they talk about quitting. Blogposts like this almost always seem to be people into their 30s or 40s who want to make some fancy livestyle change for its own sake.
If anything a nice cup of black tea or a good Irish coffee in the evening calms me down and I sleep like a baby
People in their 30s or 40s like me don't make lifestyle changes "for its own sake". We do it because we notice our slightly older bodies react significantly differently to substances or generally are less healthy and less tolerant of unideal lifestyles. This is due to hormone changes and basically other types of aging.
Also, just because coffee makes _you_ feel calm, and you have no issues sleeping afterward, does not mean that that is the normal reaction. For most people, coffee is a stimulant, and will often delay sleep. But the effects vary quite a bit with different people and different consumption levels.
> Ultimately, as COVID wraps up and things go back to normal
As someone who was “more cautious than most” this is disheartening to read. I know it isn’t the point of the post but this type of attitude is why we are in for huge pain no matter how low spread rates are in your area at the moment. Even if scientific consensus is wrong and things die down quickly nationwide with no “2nd wave,” the economy is going to go to a scary place.
I drink probably 3-5 cups a day consistently, either black or a small amount of cream. I don’t know why, but I am not sensitive to caffeine at all. I don’t get ‘wired’ or energized from it. Been that way my whole life, even as a kid consuming tons of soda. I just never seemed to feel a noticeable effect.
I’m sure I’m not the only one, but the way I hear other people talk about caffeine, it seems like we’re consuming totally different substances. Since I don’t get a buzz, I don’t drink it for the energy. It’s just a pleasant, delicious hot beverage. I also enjoy trying different bean varieties & new roasting companies.
I’ve given it up for a while with seemingly no adverse effects. I can take it or leave it, but I usually partake! Also, I like to think black coffee is actually good for you. It’s not just caffeine, but contains many complex compounds, anti-oxidants etc. The science is debatable, but if I believe it’s good for me then it is right? :p
I was going to write something similar. I remember the first time I needed to pull an all-nighter in university to finish a project, and picked myself up a packet of the Proplus caffeine pills which were in vogue at the time. Took a few during the night and didn’t notice a thing.
Fast forward a few years and a buddy and I bought our first espresso machines. Experimenting making double espressos with different beans - after two or three he was totally wired, feeling unwell, and unable to sleep; I could pretty much sleep as normal.
Two physiological effects that are fairly clear however:
1) Moderate appetite suppression – useful if intermittent fasting and hungry in the morning
2) Something in coffee is a fairly powerful stimulant of colonic motility...
128 comments
[ 7.8 ms ] story [ 200 ms ] threadIt'd be interesting seeing the long term effects high school sleep schedules have on people. I wouldn't be surprised if poor sleep patterns in adolescence lead to insomnia and other issues later in life. I definitely felt like my high school sleeping patterns were damaging to my mental and physical health.
So, it's not a sugar crash the author is talking about.
It generally takes 12 days before your body resets it's relevant receptors for caffeine consumption. E.g if you drink three coffees a day and barely feel a hit, you need to go cold turkey for 12 days. After that the impact of coffee should be more significant. (1) (edit: sources state 2 weeks to 2 months in fact!)
I decided to give it a go a few years ago and fuck me. The come down sucked. The first few days were okish. Slight headache.
But from the 3rd day for about 4-5 days. I had a headache that'd compete with my past migraines. I was nauseated and was throwing up several times a day. These stopped at roughly day 8 or day 9.
I didn't consider myself a heavy coffee drinker either. Perhaps 2-3 coffees a day, these were double shot espresso's.
My colleagues hilariously wrote a medical blog to document my descent into madness. I'll try and dig it up.
(1) - https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-tolerance
The lack of caffeine hasn't really had any effect on my psoriasis or stress levels, so maybe it was all for nothing.
It was quite a while a go now, I might think about doing it again. But do it without the masochistic torture I put myself through last time.
'psoriasis or stress levels' - is there a link to psoriasis and coffee?
Cups or mugs? Most of us, when we pour a mug of coffee, pour about 12 ounces, which is a cup (8 oz) and a half. So if you have two mugs of coffee, you're actually drinking about 3 cups.
There is a not insignificant amount of caffeine in green tea, but still less than in coffee
Coffee has 163mg per cup, black tea 42mg and green tea 25mg.[0][1][2]
1kg of dry tea does have more caffeine than 1kg of coffee beans, according to Wikipedia[3]
> Tea contains more caffeine than coffee by dry weight. A typical serving, however, contains much less, since less of the product is used as compared to an equivalent serving of coffee. Also contributing to caffeine content are growing conditions, processing techniques, and other variables. Thus, teas contain varying amounts of caffeine
Also kinda interesting: I've often seen people opt for an espresso instead op a cup of coffee, because they say they need the caffeine. But an espresso has only 77mg of caffeine, way less caffeine than a cup of coffee. [4] (Unless you fill a coffee cup with espresso shots, but who does that?)
[0] https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/coffee-bre...
[1] https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/tea-brewed
[2] https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/green-tea
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Beverages
[4] https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/espresso
Brewed coffee (8 oz): 96 mg Brewed black tea (8 oz): 47 mg Brewed green tea (8 oz): 28 mg
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...
It's worth noting that tea also contains theanine, in addition to caffeine. Theanine binds to glutamate receptors and increases serotonin, dopamine, GABA, and glycine levels in various areas of the brain.
Also noted no improvement with my psoriasis, no increased alertness, sleep felt the same, and actually gained weight over that time period.
I'm happily enjoying coffee daily again.
That's a lot of caffeine - at or beyond the typically recommended daily maximum of 400mg.
I decided to wean off of coffee and that worked better.
Now I just do half caf and have two cups a day and found a nice balance of not being too dependent on the caffeine.
More than the caffeine I love the taste of good coffee, so I can live with the reduced caffeine.
Not everyone has extreme withdrawal from stopping caffeine.
Unfortunately, I picked up the habit again after my son was born, for reasons I shouldn't have to explain. Once he's sleeping more consistently I'd like to quit caffeine again, hopefully over a shorter period of time.
I typically consume 1 double-shot espresso, 1 green tea, 1 small cup of brew, and sometimes decaf in a day. It's mostly just a part of my work day routine. I used to go some weekend day without caffeine altogether.
Since working remotely at home I don't have a specific caffeine schedule and lost track of my consumption. After one long weekend I didn't consume much/any caffeine but I didn't realize this. On Monday my stomach was uneasy so I drank some water and avoided caffeine because on an empty stomach it can make me feel worse. The next thing that happened was inconceivable. I was curled up in bed clutching my stomach in agony for several hours. It wasn't extreme discomfort but just enough that I didn't want to do anything else. After it eased I had a coffee and everything magically felt perfectly normal. The next day I started to get that same feeling and immediately had a coffee. My day went fine.
The secret was to switch to green tea during the transition and sip from it only when needed.
Eliminating the green tea was not an issue.
I quit coffee after drinking 2-3 cups a day to cold turkey.
I had minor discomforts, a bit of a light headache but it was extremely easy.
Readers of HN: This is not some generic withdrawal that happens to everyone unless we have data that proves with randomized trail. My anecdote completely contrasts with the parent and both opinions need to be taken as a grain of salt.
The first couple days were annoying, but tolerable. Just a general tiredness. The for days 5 to 8, I probably clocked in 12 to 14 hours of sleep a day.
I was drinking 3 or so grande/venti coffees a day.
...as COVID wraps up and things go back to normal...
People really think covid is like any other story in the news cycle and it can just go away as people get bored of it.
You know what else increases focus and also wakefulness, concentration, creativity, productivity, etc, etc? A good night's sleep. Then you wake up early in the morning with your mind razor sharp and you have a good five to six hours of uninterrupted work at the top of your game. Then lunch, a little 15 minute nap and off you go, for another five or six hours. That's how you get through 12-hour working days without dosing yourself with anything that ultimately destroys your ability to think straight, even as it makes you think you're awake (when you're actually half asleep).
I quit drinking coffee, and two weeks later, these issues stopped entirely. I haven't felt them in about 3 years. I was usually only drinking two cups a day (albeit very large and very strong cups), but it seems to have been enough to really wear out my body.
On the other hand, since giving up coffee, I've basically lost my ability to focus on difficult things. Coffee never really helped me stay awake, but damn did it help me work. Sometimes I'll have a cup, but then I think that I kind of feel something in my chest and decide to quit drinking for a few more months.
Edit to add - Actually, about a year prior to that, had really bad GERD start out of nowhere. The doctor there also said to stop drinking caffeine. Apparently it's really bad for your stomach muscles. I didn't listen of course, until my heart was involved.
To be clear, I congratulate the authors for kicking the addiction, but the story seems a bit ludicrous.
I use the word "addict" loosely -- I'm not sure how much real chemical dependency there was, I didn't have much in the way of withdrawal symptoms. I have anecdotally observed that people have radically different biological responses to and dependencies on caffeine. I think my "addiction" was mostly cultural.
If being outside was the trigger, staying inside would make it easy to quit. On the other hand, going outside again would trigger again the addiction, so it never went away in the first place.
I wonder if it's maybe a cultural thing. Where I grew up in the United States it would be almost unheard of not to own a coffee pot. But I've also worked with people (from parts of Asia, in particular) where they didn't know how to operate a drip coffee maker and only kept instant around, despite how much coffee they would drink every day.
Here’s a video of one in use to better illustrate the concept: https://youtu.be/Q1nkDoNcMRc
I was down to about 2 cups a day at work, but now that I'm home all the time, I'm back up to four. It's just... comforting to have in my hand.
Frankly, I'm surprised decaf is not more popular. It is possible to make decaf taste so good you'd never know it's decaf.
I think there is no evidence whatsover that coffee is in any way bad for you. In fact, some studies point to slight benefits in lifelong coffee drinkers.
[1] https://www.gocupper.com/
Personal request: Recommended coffee packs. I'm getting decision fatigue.
edit: I ordered $100 worth to try out. Tell your friends I said thanks. ^_^
https://www.onevillagecoffee.com/collections/coffee/products...
This resonates with me. But I think sometimes these aspirational affectations, once identified, are better preserved. If there’s any chance that they may one day ring true, they can serve as a worthwhile reminder of what one is striving toward.
For coffee culture in particular it's strange, because what's the aspiration? To drink lots of coffee? Great, but I struggle to find a higher purpose in that.
In coffee culture, there's some common sense of belonging and easy identification with others -- drinking lots of coffee is like being a fan of a popular sports team. It makes for an easy catchphrase and set of jokes that can go on T-Shirts or Tinder bios. It's an easy way to create a persona, and stereotype yourself a little for others to feel like they get you more easily -- "that's Jay, he's 6 feet tall, loves coffee and flying kites, rides a motorcycle". But, at least to me, it felt like a bland or uninteresting thing to advertise about myself.
In my older age, I'm able to moderate a lot better, I really couldn't just drink a single soda or green tea, but now I'm a lot more comfortable drinking caffeine in the morning, then switching to something else the rest of the day.
When I first stopped, I had been also drinking sugary soda - so I switched to diet soda as a crutch, it definitely helped me make the transition.
Now that I'm working from home and have the time in the morning, I make the same two mugs' worth most days. I don't feel awful about it because one mug (probably around a cup and a half worth) most days isn't a crazy amount. Still, I buy decent beans ($10-15 for a one-pound bag) and go through it in a couple of weeks. I consider it a minor vice and surely healthier than the couple of beers I've been drinking most evenings.
I also use caffeine tablets instead of coffee, and limit myself to 50-100mg, usually taken in smaller doses throughout the day. Combined with the regular reset weeks, this so far seems to be enough to boost my energy without giving me jitters and other issues.
Then one day I just decided to stop, and it was shockingly easy. I didn't have any withdrawal symptoms, not even a headache, I didn't feel particularly tired. And I started sleeping better so I quickly felt less tired. I think my dependence on coffee was entirely psychological, there wasn't really a physical component to it.
I haven't really had coffee, or any caffeine since then. I went through a period of drinking decaf, but found that even the little bit of caffeine in that messed with my sleep. Or it was just a placebo affect that made me too anxious to fall asleep, still not really sure which it was. The only thing I really miss is the taste, every time I walk by a coffee shop and smell it I get a wave of nostalgia. But oh well, I like sleep a lot better than coffee.
Anecdotally, I think it's really interesting that people have radically different biological responses to caffeine. I have friends who drink much less than I did, but are hardcore dependent. I know people who get real headaches and jitters from tiny cups of coffee. I wonder if this heterogeneity is the case for many stimulants, or if there's something special and unusual about caffeine.
Edit: actually maybe that list is supposed to indicate relative quantity; they just get around sugar being the second and third ingredients by lumping a bunch of stuff in with water.
I’ve never experienced any form of side effect. No headaches, crashes, cravings, nothing. Likewise, when I resume drinking coffee again later, it takes the same 3-4 cups per day to feel any kind of impact.
Similarly I can drink coffee all day, and often really enjoy an espresso after dinner instead of dessert, with zero impact on sleep.
I don’t know if I am just a weirdo who can metabolize caffeine differently or what, but I’ve never had any kind of headache / jitters / withdrawal / strong craving / whatever, neither from drinking a lot of coffee or a little or switching between the two states over long or short periods of time.
If anything a nice cup of black tea or a good Irish coffee in the evening calms me down and I sleep like a baby
Also, just because coffee makes _you_ feel calm, and you have no issues sleeping afterward, does not mean that that is the normal reaction. For most people, coffee is a stimulant, and will often delay sleep. But the effects vary quite a bit with different people and different consumption levels.
Tea in the evening knocks me out, especially chamomile tea. As for the Irish Coffee, i suspect the whiskey is the suspect in knocking you out :D
I may do it again soon though, it'll be interesting to see what a difference my no sugar change will make to the experience.
As someone who was “more cautious than most” this is disheartening to read. I know it isn’t the point of the post but this type of attitude is why we are in for huge pain no matter how low spread rates are in your area at the moment. Even if scientific consensus is wrong and things die down quickly nationwide with no “2nd wave,” the economy is going to go to a scary place.
I’m sure I’m not the only one, but the way I hear other people talk about caffeine, it seems like we’re consuming totally different substances. Since I don’t get a buzz, I don’t drink it for the energy. It’s just a pleasant, delicious hot beverage. I also enjoy trying different bean varieties & new roasting companies.
I’ve given it up for a while with seemingly no adverse effects. I can take it or leave it, but I usually partake! Also, I like to think black coffee is actually good for you. It’s not just caffeine, but contains many complex compounds, anti-oxidants etc. The science is debatable, but if I believe it’s good for me then it is right? :p
Fast forward a few years and a buddy and I bought our first espresso machines. Experimenting making double espressos with different beans - after two or three he was totally wired, feeling unwell, and unable to sleep; I could pretty much sleep as normal.
Two physiological effects that are fairly clear however:
1) Moderate appetite suppression – useful if intermittent fasting and hungry in the morning
2) Something in coffee is a fairly powerful stimulant of colonic motility...