People aren't buying Glocks because they're hunting in their spare time. The shelves aren't empty of .223/5.56 ball ammo because it's coming up on deer season. In fact, I was at a Cabela's a couple of weeks ago and the only ammo they had were hunting rounds (and nothing in 5.56/.223 or 7.62x51/.308, not to mention handgun cartridges)
There are three main reasons this is happening: the possibility Biden will win, the canoe effect, and — this is the big one — looting, arson, violent crime, property crime, and societal unrest combined with calls to defund the police.
People are realizing that you cannot rely upon the police now or in the future to save the day (TBH, you never could) and arming themselves as a result. There are also people on the left who are armed to protect themselves from the far-right, and PoC who want to effectively protect themselves against racist aggressors.
I did a quick search for "canoe effect" but didn't find anything that seemed relevant. How's it defined in this context? Spending on outdoors goods are generally increasing?
From what I've heard, there are a tremendous amount of first time buyers. Any sort of firearm for defense is pretty much gone, along with all ammunition. The shortage is severe enough that the ammunition manufacturers are supposedly switching to only the popular calibers.
Everybody who shoots for recreation tries to avoid election year buying and stocked up last year, when prices were historically low. Now it's hard to find my go to 22 ammo :((((((
> There should be no issues with buying a gun and then deciding to sell it to someone eligible after quickly deciding you don’t want it anymore, no?
Yeah it's confusing because you can buy a gun with the intent to gift it to someone. In your example, it would come down to proving that you lied when filling out the 4473.
> What are the laws about carrying your spouse’s gun?
Depends on the state. In my home state of Arizona, none. I can carry my gun, my wife's gun, or a friend's gun not even a carry permit required. Aside from prohibited possessors (felons, etc.), I can loan or transfer to anyone who is of age a gun. Moreover since Arizona has no registration and is a community property state, "ownership" is no different than any other piece of property and considered both of ours.
In my birth state of California, you can only carry a gun that is on your permit, and as far as I know, you can get a gun on a permit that has been registered to you (either through DROS or self-register when moving to the state---note that possession of an unregistered gun is not a crime).
So unless the state prohibits the transfer without a background check through a dealer, you can probably carry your spouse's or friend's gun
Historically, people of color arming themselves has been the biggest catalyst for gun control measures. I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that's going to be a priority for the next administration. As usual, these measures won't apply to police officers on- or off-duty, for service or personal weapons.
I did a quick search and found a couple articles from 2008[0], more or less saying the same thing: AFTER Obama was elected (not before the election), gun sales boomed because people believed the govt would enact gun control laws.
Also, as another reply pointed out, given the current state of affairs and the purchases being made i.e. riots + first-time gun owners + record-breaking purchases + handguns and other weapons that would fall under self-defense (AR-15, shotguns, etc) being sold out en masse, I think a clearer picture starts to form.
I'm not sure your points are indicative of a Democratic win, but to be fair, maybe they don't say much about a Republican win either (although things are looking spicy according to this model[1]).
To hunt legally you would do so during the defined hunting seasons. The only thing open right now, in most states, is varmint hunting which isn't very popular. Hunting season for large ungulates, deer/elk/moose, usually starts in late August early Sept and runs through December.
Despite what some media outlets proclaim Pistols and AR's are not generally used for hunting.
I don't know. Tons of people in Texas use AR pattern rifles with large cartridges to hunt boar. You're going to want Semi-Auto if you miss or if you get charged, those hogs are mean.
Texas is its own animal when it comes to hunting. There is little to no public land, so everything is private, and 99% of all hunting is done from a blind or a stand where they "hunt" over bait piles. I am not judging, I have lived and hunted there, I am just sharing how it is different than many people conceptualize of hunting.
As for using an AR on hogs that is true. That is technically varmint hunting where there is no limit on the number of animals taken and the goal is to mow down as many as possible.
Yeah, I've gone with a buddy. We don't do the bait stuff because it's pest control they're everywhere. 3AM with FLIRs and a spotlight hunting hogs on one of his random neighbors ranches. Gotta keep the pests under control.
Hunting dangerous and/or delicious animals notwithstanding, a gun is a tool that we invented for killing our fellow man with good efficiency and effectiveness.
I'm curious about what aspects of the state of affairs in America has citizens deciding that they now need to improve their ability to kill their neighbors and countrymen.
If someone comes at you or your family with the intent to harm them, and you kill them for it, that's DEFENSIVE.
It's enshrined in the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution for a reason. The founding fathers didn't just get back from some sweet hunting trip when they wrote it; They just overthrew an oppressive tyrannical government to defend their homes and families.
I can tell you as someone who identifies as progressive/liberal who thought I would never own a gun (no kids but still, no need to have something deadly like that) that I've seriously been considering it lately.
I first thought about when COVID-19 hit but told myself it would be unsafe and stupid for me to buy a gun when I couldn't do what I considered "table-stakes" for owning a gun (train for hours and hours at a range, take classes on gun safety, etc). In the last week I've been considering breaking my own "rules" on that too.
Watching the country spiral out of control (in so many ways) is terrifying and I have the financial means to purchase 1-2 guns, a safe, and lots of ammo. I'm quickly running out of good reasons to not "pull the trigger" as it were...
This is one community that I'd be interested to hear feedback from on this. I have no desire or want to use a gun on a living thing but I'm increasingly feeling like a baseball bat is no longer acceptable for home defense. When things go bad they go bad quickly, I don't want to be left exposed.
What are you afraid of that a gun will help you? You are without child and apparently mildly well off. You can't shoot a virus, and if shit really hits the fan here in America, emigration probably won't be a problem
Minneapolis is where the protests started, though, so it makes sense that they would be more intense there in Houston. And beyond "not exhaustive," one example is essentially no evidence at all, unless you believe protests inherently turn violent without people open carrying firearms. Some actual numbers on property damage in multiple cities compared to rates of firearm ownership and ideally open carrying would be useful, but I'm not sure we have those.
I'd love that data. I'm sure someone will publish something with that. I'm personally in a red state and the agitators were kept on a short lease by the police. Just a few broken windows and a temporarily blocked freeway. Nothing burned down.
And you are right non-exhaustive was an understatement. Haha.
I saw more than a few Mom and Pop shops looted. If they had shotguns, maybe their shop would have suffered broken glass but the looting would stop after you had "peppered up"[1] the first looter.
I'm less worried about rioters as much as a certain political party's members whose language has started to really concern me. That coupled with my complete loss of faith in certain institutions I expected to protect me and the (I know some will call this crazy) fear that my political party/views or sexuality might paint a target on my back. Hoping and even working towards what I see as a better future where I would not need a gun alone is become less acceptable in my mind. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
I'm also quite liberal, and bought my first AR back in November 2016. I share your concerns. Your timing is bad, but I do think having a gun (preferably a modern rifle) is a good idea.
You're right that training is important. I don't think you'll find beginner classes right now, but I don't think an in person class is essential. The Shooting 101 series Lucky Gunner Ammo did is a decent start. Some outdoor ranges are still open, but that may not be an option where you are.
I should have done it then but I just never imagined we would be where we are just 3.5 years later. Would have given me time to train and educate myself.
The pandemic opened my eyes to a lot of things. Things not even related, at least on the surface, to the pandemic itself. I’m kicking myself for not seeing it till now.
If you intend to defend your home and you're willing to use a baseball bat then what difference, philosophically, is a gun? Either one is a weapon that allows you to kill an attacker. Ask yourself what you have against the gun - is it an irrational fear?
I'm not afraid of guns themselves and have shot a handful of different guns about 10 times or so in my life. With a bat my goal was not to kill an attacker as much as wound or ward them them off though I understand that killing may be necessary under certain circumstances. My fear was mainly around perpetrating an industry that give too much power to an individual.
AR500 is absolute garbage. Do yourself a favor and look into ceramic plates produced by Hesco or spend a bit more on some flexible armor from SafeLifeDefense.
There's probably a range near you, that will let you rent guns, I strongly recommend trying before buying. Also, get an instructor.
As far as buying goes: here you go https://www.budsgunshop.com/search.php/type/Handguns After a background check, they'll deliver to a local FFL, and you'll pick it up from there. If your in CA or a similarly abusive state, that might not work and you'll probably have to buy locally which might be out of stock right now.
Yeah, I actually have a Buds nearby and I've been before to shoot. I've shot guns 10 or so times in my life. That's the place I had planned on buying from and seeing if they had classes (or could hire someone to train me there) after the pandemic had passed.
A firearm, for most people, is the most effective means to defend themselves against another aggressor. That doesn't mean that it's the right call for everyone.
You're right though, training is necessary "table stakes" and I hope that's not what you're going to sacrifice if you purchase. At the very least, go to an outdoor range and get some amount of practice in so that you can handle your firearm safely.
Also, you need to make the decision up front that you're willing to defend yourself with deadly force. Some people can't or are unwilling to do so. This is a far more consequential decision than most people realize. Without training, practice and the will to use it a firearm is simply a liability.
Some other thoughts:
1. Consider getting a medical kit and keeping it on hand. You're far more likely to use it and Stop the Bleed classes are free. It won't cost much to keep on hand
2. Get Concealed Carry Insurance. You'll need legal representation in the case of defending your life.
3. Realize that after you take a life, you'll likely need counseling. Prepare accordingly
My plan if I do cave is to visit my parents (I'm completely isolated or can isolate completely beforehand) and go to an outdoor range they like to practice. I was actually planning on doing that much once COVID numbers fell to see what kind of gun I would want (they have a few), unfortunately numbers are now trending in the opposite direction.
I firmly subscribe to the "you don't draw/aim your gun unless you intent to kill" methodology and I believe I could handle pulling the trigger and the aftermath. It's not a toy and I would never treat it as such. Thank you for your other suggestions, I had considered the last one but the first 2 were things I didn't know existed or I hadn't thought about them.
You sound reasonable you should acquire a firearm if you want. By the way if you're looking for a good community of left leaning responsible gun owners check out /r/liberalgunowners on reddit. Most gun communities can be more right leaning due to selection bias.
And yet you get a gun and the person that gun is far and away most likely to kill is you or someone in your family.
Your post has a ton of fallacies. Are you going to constantly carry your gun? You still think it will protect you if someone has the drop on you? The amount of cowboy situations where guns actually will help are pretty small.
His insinuation seems that crime would immediately (eventually?) spike up once police doesnt have the same financial means. So a citation that says lower police funding correlates to higher crime (specifically at current levels of police funding) would help.
I live in a city that is so dangerous the police have to use pepper balls on protesters so that the president can have a chance to pose with a Bible in front of the church of his choice.
But guess what? The prosperous areas are quiet as they were before this. Yes, there were burglars who took advantage of police distraction on the night when protesting turned into rioting, not just downtown but uptown. That's over. The murders remain where the murders have been, i.e. in the poorer ends of town.
I want to be clear, I draw a clear line between protestors, rioters, looters. They are not all the same and even then I can sympathize with some of the property damage (from the perspective of the people doing it).
I’m far less concerned about rioters or protests getting out of hand than I am the police/government or some crazed person who read something or FB or Twitter deciding to take matters in their own hands.
Do you have a history of suicidal ideation, either in you or in your family? Consider this when you get a gun. 60% of gun deaths in the US are suicides [0].
I don’t know where you are, but I don’t see the country spiraling out of control at all. I suspect a lot of what’s going on is simply exaggerated by the media for dollars. Don’t get sucked into their narratives.
What did they think was going to happen when everyone on TV started screaming "DEFUND POLICE!" ?
Did they really expect people to just accept that they're now completely defenseless. (Not that dialing 911 and waiting an avg of 15 minutes for a response is much of a defense, of course)
As someone living in Minneapolis and owned a business in St Paul Midway where police have actually been defunded I feel no less "defendful" than last year. The police are pretty useless at keeping me personally safe and keeping my property safe,there has been no sudden spike in crime. Guns are essentially an adult nightlight and are rarely used. Shit is not hitting anything, crime is far below where it was in the 90s when Minneapolis was known as Murderapolis and I see no evidence showing it's going to go that way but I read a massive amount of fear mongering online. People bought a ton of bitcoin and thought the price was going up to $100,000...they were wrong.
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[ 4.6 ms ] story [ 111 ms ] threadAlso, more free time for hunting along with so much else closed.
I wonder how the increase has compared to canoe sales.
There are three main reasons this is happening: the possibility Biden will win, the canoe effect, and — this is the big one — looting, arson, violent crime, property crime, and societal unrest combined with calls to defund the police.
People are realizing that you cannot rely upon the police now or in the future to save the day (TBH, you never could) and arming themselves as a result. There are also people on the left who are armed to protect themselves from the far-right, and PoC who want to effectively protect themselves against racist aggressors.
https://sphweb.bumc.bu.edu/otlt/MPH-Modules/SB/BehavioralCha...
Like gym memberships after New Years.
Everybody who shoots for recreation tries to avoid election year buying and stocked up last year, when prices were historically low. Now it's hard to find my go to 22 ammo :((((((
Lots of shops limiting gun/ammo sales to X/person to maintain stock.
There should be no issues with buying a gun and then deciding to sell it to someone eligible after quickly deciding you don’t want it anymore, no?
What are the laws about carrying your spouse’s gun?
I genuinely don’t know.
Not quite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramski_v._United_States
> There should be no issues with buying a gun and then deciding to sell it to someone eligible after quickly deciding you don’t want it anymore, no?
Yeah it's confusing because you can buy a gun with the intent to gift it to someone. In your example, it would come down to proving that you lied when filling out the 4473.
> What are the laws about carrying your spouse’s gun?
Depends on the state. In my home state of Arizona, none. I can carry my gun, my wife's gun, or a friend's gun not even a carry permit required. Aside from prohibited possessors (felons, etc.), I can loan or transfer to anyone who is of age a gun. Moreover since Arizona has no registration and is a community property state, "ownership" is no different than any other piece of property and considered both of ours.
In my birth state of California, you can only carry a gun that is on your permit, and as far as I know, you can get a gun on a permit that has been registered to you (either through DROS or self-register when moving to the state---note that possession of an unregistered gun is not a crime).
So unless the state prohibits the transfer without a background check through a dealer, you can probably carry your spouse's or friend's gun
They're seeking a monopoly on violence.
I did a quick search and found a couple articles from 2008[0], more or less saying the same thing: AFTER Obama was elected (not before the election), gun sales boomed because people believed the govt would enact gun control laws.
Also, as another reply pointed out, given the current state of affairs and the purchases being made i.e. riots + first-time gun owners + record-breaking purchases + handguns and other weapons that would fall under self-defense (AR-15, shotguns, etc) being sold out en masse, I think a clearer picture starts to form.
I'm not sure your points are indicative of a Democratic win, but to be fair, maybe they don't say much about a Republican win either (although things are looking spicy according to this model[1]).
[0]: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27598947/ns/us_news-life/t/democra... [1]: http://primarymodel.com/
Despite what some media outlets proclaim Pistols and AR's are not generally used for hunting.
As for using an AR on hogs that is true. That is technically varmint hunting where there is no limit on the number of animals taken and the goal is to mow down as many as possible.
I'm curious about what aspects of the state of affairs in America has citizens deciding that they now need to improve their ability to kill their neighbors and countrymen.
If someone comes at you or your family with the intent to harm them, and you kill them for it, that's DEFENSIVE.
It's enshrined in the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution for a reason. The founding fathers didn't just get back from some sweet hunting trip when they wrote it; They just overthrew an oppressive tyrannical government to defend their homes and families.
I first thought about when COVID-19 hit but told myself it would be unsafe and stupid for me to buy a gun when I couldn't do what I considered "table-stakes" for owning a gun (train for hours and hours at a range, take classes on gun safety, etc). In the last week I've been considering breaking my own "rules" on that too.
Watching the country spiral out of control (in so many ways) is terrifying and I have the financial means to purchase 1-2 guns, a safe, and lots of ammo. I'm quickly running out of good reasons to not "pull the trigger" as it were...
This is one community that I'd be interested to hear feedback from on this. I have no desire or want to use a gun on a living thing but I'm increasingly feeling like a baseball bat is no longer acceptable for home defense. When things go bad they go bad quickly, I don't want to be left exposed.
I’m curious.
https://houston.eater.com/2020/6/1/21277094/downtown-houston...
And you are right non-exhaustive was an understatement. Haha.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLT5ZADZCeI
You're right that training is important. I don't think you'll find beginner classes right now, but I don't think an in person class is essential. The Shooting 101 series Lucky Gunner Ammo did is a decent start. Some outdoor ranges are still open, but that may not be an option where you are.
The pandemic opened my eyes to a lot of things. Things not even related, at least on the surface, to the pandemic itself. I’m kicking myself for not seeing it till now.
I’ll check out that series, thank you.
$250 full L3 kit - https://www.ar500armor.com/plate-carriers/plate-carrier-pack...
As far as buying goes: here you go https://www.budsgunshop.com/search.php/type/Handguns After a background check, they'll deliver to a local FFL, and you'll pick it up from there. If your in CA or a similarly abusive state, that might not work and you'll probably have to buy locally which might be out of stock right now.
A firearm, for most people, is the most effective means to defend themselves against another aggressor. That doesn't mean that it's the right call for everyone.
You're right though, training is necessary "table stakes" and I hope that's not what you're going to sacrifice if you purchase. At the very least, go to an outdoor range and get some amount of practice in so that you can handle your firearm safely.
Also, you need to make the decision up front that you're willing to defend yourself with deadly force. Some people can't or are unwilling to do so. This is a far more consequential decision than most people realize. Without training, practice and the will to use it a firearm is simply a liability.
Some other thoughts:
1. Consider getting a medical kit and keeping it on hand. You're far more likely to use it and Stop the Bleed classes are free. It won't cost much to keep on hand
2. Get Concealed Carry Insurance. You'll need legal representation in the case of defending your life.
3. Realize that after you take a life, you'll likely need counseling. Prepare accordingly
I firmly subscribe to the "you don't draw/aim your gun unless you intent to kill" methodology and I believe I could handle pulling the trigger and the aftermath. It's not a toy and I would never treat it as such. Thank you for your other suggestions, I had considered the last one but the first 2 were things I didn't know existed or I hadn't thought about them.
Your post has a ton of fallacies. Are you going to constantly carry your gun? You still think it will protect you if someone has the drop on you? The amount of cowboy situations where guns actually will help are pretty small.
But guess what? The prosperous areas are quiet as they were before this. Yes, there were burglars who took advantage of police distraction on the night when protesting turned into rioting, not just downtown but uptown. That's over. The murders remain where the murders have been, i.e. in the poorer ends of town.
I’m far less concerned about rioters or protests getting out of hand than I am the police/government or some crazed person who read something or FB or Twitter deciding to take matters in their own hands.
[0]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-da...
Did they really expect people to just accept that they're now completely defenseless. (Not that dialing 911 and waiting an avg of 15 minutes for a response is much of a defense, of course)