HN Explorer

Poll: Do you work for "the Man"?

114 points by Sukotto ↗ HN
NathanKP commented

  I would imagine that a fairly large percentage 
  of the Hacker News community probably works for 
  themselves or as freelance contractors.
( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2392346 )

What do you say HN? Are you:

89 comments

[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 186 ms ] thread
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mgkimsal
"owner of your own company" and "a freelancer" are really the same for many people.
cjeane
That is what I was thinking. Is the distinction having employees?
foxxtrot
I would say that's a reasonable way to make that distinction.
mgkimsal
What if my employees are freelancers? :)
mohsen
so you are a freelancer and your employees are freelancers as well, and you're wondering if that makes you owner of a company?

well in that case i wouldn't consider you a company just because you hire freelancers. if you are a person who gets gigs here and there and then passes parts of it to someone else for a cut, i doubt that would be called company. however, if your projects come in at a steady and reasonable rate and you pass parts of them to others to do, also at a steady and reasonable rate, then i think you have a company, good sir!

but of course there are other factors as well: 401K, benefits, etc.

chc
I think the distinction is that freelancers technically own a company, but what the company does is whatever people ask it to do. Compare a freelancer's company with a company that makes washing machines and you'll notice a substantial difference — I think that's the line here.
gersh
I'd distinguish between consulting and a product company. Product companies license software, sell physical goods, or off-the-shelf goods. Consulting companies sell time to their customer's requirements. They may do fixed-bid work, but the client writes the specs, possibly with help.
callmeed
You should add an "I am the man" option
chc
I think that would be "owner of your own company".
originalgeek
No, that's just "the man" in your own mind. You still actually work for "the man".
chc
If you are self-employed (the situation we're discussing), and you work for the man (your assertion), then by logical deduction you are the man — which is what I said.
trotsky
what we have here is a failure to communicate
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originalgeek
You're having a major case of the "whoosh". In the context of this conversation, if you are self-employed and/or own your own company, then "the man" is the government, your clients, possibly even your suppliers.
shabda
Isn't that "no true scotsman"? Everyone works for the man, at some level. Steve Jobs works for the man (his shareholders). Barak Obama works for the Man (his backers).
tluyben2
Some do, some don't. If you manage to make your living doing what you believe in and not dancing to the tune of $ or clients, you are 'the man'. But I guess most of us don't have that luxury.
scythe
Well, my last job was with the Navy, which I suppose is The Man, but that doesn't fit into any of the poll options.

It'd be good to add "public sector" and "military" options, I think.

jamaicahest
Or working for The People, as opposed to The Man :)
spir
In the spirit of the poll, you are very clearly employed at someone else's company.
xiaoma
If Uncle Sam doesn't qualify as "the man", then who does?
klinquist
Working for the man in a very versatile/not-typical group. Happy with PTO/free time for my own geek projects & hobbies, steady pay & bonus plan, etc :).
pbj
I'd vote for unemployed but I can see I'm not allowed to! :)
bcrawford
Isn't that just the same as "entrepreneur?" I kid, I kid.
Goosey
I think HN gives off the impression that most people own company or freelance due to the content, but it is a bit of a filter effect. Similar to how everyone is living amazing awesome lives on facebook.
nickbp
In my opinion, someone truly living an amazing awesome life wouldn't have time to advertise it on Facebook. But it might be that I have a different definition of such a life.
olalonde
I have yet to see Steve Jobs or Sergei Brin contribute to HN ;)
richardw
No, we just don't use our own names.
danieldk
I work for someone else too (a Dutch university). Although I am interested in freelancing or starting my own company in the future, what brought me to Hacker News was the good signal/noise ratio. Both in terms of upvoted items and in insightful comments.

The focus on startups may filter for people who are generally interested in new technology and business methods. You have to be able to tolerate some entrepreneurial posts every day ;).

kylelibra
The last question should be first. I clicked on the first one, not realizing the fourth one would be an option. Just a thought.
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NathanKP
I feel obligated to comment since I inspired this poll: I don't think the way this poll is worded is contributing to accurate results.

For example, I can truthfully say that I am currently employed at someone else's company (a startup that I am consulting for), I am a freelance contractor (for the startup I am consulting for), owner of my own company (an apparel and design studio that I am currently working on with some close friends), and I have numerous side projects including my own startup. If I feel like I should select multiple options, then I'm sure others are having the same problem. I don't think the options in the poll are leading to an accurate answer to the question.

I think the real question is what the percentage of cubicle dwelling office workers being watched over by a boss is compared with the percentage of self employed, freelance consultants.

My initial estimate was that there would be more self employed individuals with self control built by working for themselves, and fewer cubicle workers who are trying to sneakily browse HN behind the back of their bosses.

This poll hasn't answered my question one way or the other though.

famousactress
Yeah.. it's a hard question to pose! I was the one that suggested a poll, but stopped short of putting one up cause I wasn't able to come up with the right list of choices, and title that honor the spirit of the original curiosity....

... that and, I got work to do!

zavulon
The real question should be which one is contributing the majority of your income. When I worked for "the man" I had numerous side projects (none of them went anywhere), and proudly called myself an entrepreneur. Now that I have my company as my primary income source, I see how naive I was to even consider that what I was doing was real entrepreneurship.
originalgeek
The idea of not working for "the man" is merely an illusion. If you are freelance or a business owner, "the man" is your clients/customers and the government. Let's say your enterprise involves the illegal distribution of contraband, then "the man" is your supplier. Or let's say you're just a laborer working for a small building contractor, the boss is "the man".
famousactress
I disagree.. I mean, yes.. working for yourself is a bit of illusion.. everyone has customers. But the spirit of the question in this case is a bit different. I think 'the man' we're all talking about is a short-sighted middle-manager type who's at the moment working with IT to install web-censoring software, and putting together a dashboard of LOC produced, per engineer, per day.
originalgeek
Ever dealt with the IRS? Or even a city business licensing authority?
famousactress
Oh, totally.. but they don't care about me browsing HN..

... the IRS might be interested in a LOC count... :(

nostrademons
You can be employed by someone else and still not work for a short-sighted middle manager type. My boss knows I post on HN, he doesn't care as long as I get my work done, and he doesn't tell me what to do.

I think your comparison is more along the lines of "Do you work with shitty managers or good managers?"

famousactress
Exactly! I think that's what I was more interested in learning when I proposed this poll... Essentially what level of autonomy people have over how they spend and manage their time and energy.
originalgeek
Well, they're still "the man", and they will let you know it if you don't cross your t's and dot your i's.
dawgr
I'd like to ask to anyone who has worked as both, for himself and for the man, which one is more stressful? To the degree that this question can be answered, I realize it would depend a lot on the exact job and that it's not black and white.
nostrademons
In general, I found working for myself was more stressful. If you work for The Man, then when you screw up, it's generally The Man's problem. If you work for yourself and screw up, there's nobody to blame but yourself, and you're completely responsible for fixing it.
tajddin
I'd have to agree. People always say that you can make your own hours (which is true for many), but I find myself always on the job, whether it's day or night.

Nevertheless, I'd not have it any other way.

atlantic
I'd say that working for myself is more stressful. There are absolutely no excuses not to deliver quality work on time. Sometimes I find myself working through the night to meet a deadline, something I would never have done when I was regularly employed.

Nevertheless, there is a lot of satisfaction to selecting and organizing your own projects, and having freelanced for a year, I don't think I will be going back to salaried work.

mediacrisis
I work for "The Woman". I used to freelance on the side, but I signed a pretty tight non-compete. I prefer the security of a salary job over freelance projects anyway, as I'm in the lovely demographic of broke 20 something post-grads ;)
mattmanser
Apart from that's pretty much exactly when you should be freelancing/contracting as you've got no commitments and the money is phenomenally better than a salary job.
mediacrisis
I wouldn't say "no commitments". I'm trying to pay down my loans as quickly as possible, and fix my credit score (which I totally screwed up in college), so having a set budget is a huge help.

I can't risk a slow period at this point. Though freelancing is something I hope to take up again in the future, since I'm not really the marriage/kids type.

m0th87
I'm sure there's a sizable percentage that are in school / grad school (myself included) who are not represented by this poll.
jshort
Or perhaps unemployed/retired or working on small projects that may one day lead you to be the 'man'.
michaelpinto
Side note: I once met a former Apple employee who dismissed my sugar coated illusions my telling me that at the end of the day working for for even an amazing large tech company is "working for the man"
tribe9
I consider myself to be "the man," although in a different context. So in a sense, yes.
jkent
I always recommend 'other' and 'none' options for practically all HN polls.

Not everyone is employed. Some people have unusual relationships (internships?).

kgutteridge
Founder of a mobile company 5 years ago, however I would say we worked for "the man" as we bootstrapped via client work, which at least makes us masters of our own destiny
d2
So far 19% of HN readers are full time entrepreneurs and 81% are either employed by someone else full-time or contractors.
kunley
What about "stakeholder"?
nowarninglabel
I own a company, contract for my old employer, and work for a company.

I work for Kiva though, and my boss passed me on a skateboard coming in to work this morning, so it's about as far from working from the man as I can get.

bjelkeman-again
Similar but different. I work for Akvo.org, a software/online services foundation for development aid, which i co-founded. But technically I am a freelancer, and own my own company. Similar in many ways to my previous startups and very different in others.