Ask HN: Former software engineers, what are you doing now?
I've been programming since middle school, and have been working as a software engineer for the last 5 years. The pay is great (FAANG-level comp), but I'm extremely bored and considering leaving software engineering altogether.
I'd like to better understand what career options other software engineers have explored.
If you are a former software engineer:
1. What are you doing now?
2. Why did you leave software engineering?
163 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 225 ms ] threadHow do you figure? I always had in my mind that FU money was the amount you needed to quit immediately and be fine forever, which also sounds pretty much like FIRE. Granted, my mental model of FU money is not cash in the bank but passive cashflow which is probably coming from investments FIRE-style, which is maybe where the difference is.
If you have FU money you don't need to run the numbers.
That's how I look at it.
1. FIRE tend to mean sufficient money in the bank/money from passive incomes that let you live a fairly frugal lifestyle. See the Mr. Money Mustache stuff that various people are especially taken with. It doesn't tend to mean Retire Early and take expensive trips, buy nice cars, pursue expensive hobbies, buy second homes
2. FU money, on the other hand, tends to mean you don't need to work and can have enough money to do virtually anything you want to. There are degrees of course once you're talking things like private jet ownership.
Reason: "Reached FIRE"
It does add up
1) I'm a professional cartographer, sort of. I make wooden topographic maps.
2) A bunch of reasons. I was never "supposed" to work in software -- I went to school in mechanical engineering, and wanted to get closer to something like that. My side biz was becoming viable, I wanted to do something entrepreneurial, and even though I had a pretty good gig, no company is perfect if you're there long enough.
I don't know if I'll go back to data or software some day. Things were great in the map business before the pandemic, they're ok now, and hopefully they'll be great again in the future. I still do a lot of data analysis and write a lot of software for my business, it's just interspersed with a lot more sweeping, sanding, etc.
2. Startup I was working for was acquired by FAANG co. Able to retire from FAANG after four years of plumbing / ops / politics / meetings. There was awful latency at all levels, from dev environment to deployment. I found it extremely boring compared to startup life.
I would say don't judge software engineering by how it is practiced at the FAANG level (where you can seriously get away with just a handful of changes per half) and try to find a small scrappy team of smart high-energy folks.
I left because whether or not I was working my brain was. I get less actual time off now but I feel like my batteries get completely recharged. Plus I get paid to fly helicopters which is still unbelievable to me.
Did you find you were thinking more about technical problems or about problems related to management of people?
Helicopters seem like a blast, but the cost is on another level (and that's speaking as a fixed-wing pilot used to the crazy costs of GA generally).
Right now I'm working on getting back into IT (Network security).
I switch to the industry during the Obama administration, but after 2016 people were feeling a little too comfortable with their misogeny and racism.
To final straw was my direct supervisor becoming more radicalized into the far right. Not a comfortable feeling when they guy you report too leaves a 9mm with hollow points on top of his toolbox every day. The guy hadn't read a book except for the bible in 20 years, got all his news from Facebook and Fox.
How does one get into that? And is the money better or worse than software? I've been looking at switching to welding and machining for a while now, but the pay in my area isn't great.
The rest doesn't bother me. I even hear my local pastor is a racist now[0]!
[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc
I would strongly recommend against it though. The pay is terrible. There was a strong push for a few years to get people into the trades, and there was a strong misrepresentation of what the opportunities are really like.
Keep in mind that government contracts are a race to the bottom. The contracts go to the lowest bidder and since materials, etc. are a given, employee pay has really suffered. Being a machinist is not the path to a middle class life anymore for most people.
I briefly worked for a pipeline installation company ( oil,gas,etc), where welders were making fantastic money. So a few things on health: Welding electrode design has been improving,so welders get less toxic fumes than they used to a decade ago. People working in fields with pipelines often get joint problems because of extensive time spent in poor weather. Lots of awkward positions- which is harmful long term and etc. Also high end welding isn't something quick to get into: it does require a lot of experience and few people progress enough to become really good at it.
2a. Sick of pointless discussions about languages/frameworks/architectures, none of it matters to low-traffic/low-tech business.
2b. Sick of meetings/arguments to decide what to build. Making business and tech decisions simultaneously is amazingly efficient; e.g. no wasting time over-engineering for a requirement that may not even be important.
2c. Wanted to try and combine/balance my skill with my passion.
I think there are many reasonably low hanging fruit in the industry that can and should be solved.
The way that we are still needed to design a schema for things like a simple login system in a simple website, is a nasty smell that there are many reasonably low hanging fruit.
@zffr
Are you thinking of leaving the software industry?
2. Got FU money and was able to do nothing.
I had this big list of all the things I wanted to do when I stopped working, and in six months, I didn't even start doing one of them. My girlfriend said, "You're still on the computer all day, you might as well get paid for it".
I hate it when my girlfriend is right.
I took a year off a while back and pretty much did the same thing. If I ever take that much time off again, I'm going to go someplace that has no internet.
1. Climbing mountains, hiking. 2. Have a goal to learn something new everyday.. thats how i measuring quality of the day.. zero learning = bad day 3. From time to time short term works to earn some money. Usually companies very surprised then i tell them that i prefer short term projects. Shorter = better
So far so good ;) (approx 10 years)
Good luck
2. Learned tested and implemented for fun few visuals from this link: https://datavizcatalogue.com/index.html
3. Learned and tested two diferent frameworks for the web scraping.. nice, interesting what will be our role at the time when one machine prepare information and another machine will consume it..
4. Found interesting analysis at: https://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east
5. Checked what are the main advantages of timescaledb and how can i benefit from it: https://www.timescale.com
6. Learned and tested how it works css data attributes https://css-tricks.com/a-complete-guide-to-data-attributes/?...
7. Read 20+ long and detailed wikipedia articles to find out definitions and origins of various terms and subjects
Read anothe hundred or more of posts and newspaper artivles, but i think it was wasting of time, because so many authors writing to get click but not tell something important/interesting.. subjective. I do agree.. problem is that i always hope that maybe at the end i will find some briliant mind or conclusion. so, im reading whole article.. need to change this bad habit..
Not bad week.. but always can be better..;) thing what im missing is - continuity.. but thats probably something what need to fix by myself..;)
...
This werk i also climbed 3 peaks with prominance grater than 1000 meters and elevation 2300-2700m... on commercial side i implemented two small automation improvements. Changes will benefit client company and at the end - myself..
Seriously.. few things becoming clear. Good brain extension or assistant MUST:
1. Record your minds silently.. without noticing him.. thats why basic tools like notepad, markup editors and etc.. usefull.. however best thing i would like to see is device which always listening me and keeping notes.. keeping notes.. constantly. Without disturbing me..
2. This smart device must be able to organize information somehow.. i don't want to mix omlete recipe with important new Angular version features. I don't mind how to organize. It can be hidden from my understanding. Like real human brain. as long as i can extract and reconstruct data, im fine.
3. Obvious next step is utilizing data when you need it.. but if it is well organized in 2nd step.. should not be a problem.. or not? Aaa.. forgot. Once required data piece is found it must be read loud..
So far.. NONE of the solutions i tryed are close to this targets.. there are plenty of complicated solutions.. there are plenty of greedy solutions.. there are plenty of usless solutions.. but none of them helped me to organize hudge amount of personal data we have.
Did i told that it must be open source (doesn't mean i dont want to pay for it) and strictly I MUST own data?.. so..telling.
Ok. If someone is expirienced with good human memory extension techiques or software PLEASE please.. it will so great
2. It's not so much leaving Software Engineering, it's reframing it. Software Engineer when done well is about creative thinking and problem solving. If you feel that you are in a rut, try going to an organization that's not just about coding. If you are really not interested about Software Engineering as a discipline, I'd start by taking a break then reassessing.
2. I was in software for 20+ years. It was all I had ever wanted to do from the time I was 13. In hindsight, I’d say you have a phase of the moon in which to make your money and get out. It’s a brutal industry and you will likely face burn out at some point and you need to be prepared for that moment. I was in many different roles and responsibilities over that time, but the bottom line was I hit a point where none of it was fun, the clients were a pain in the ass, and it was just time to do something else that better fit my life.
If a young person came to me and asked for career advice, I’d be very direct about what to do and not do in a tech related field.
It's really hard right now to transition to something new while also seeking out a new employer. They see my years of a senior software engineer and probably bin my resume because they probably think my salary expectations are too high or I'm poorly suited to something closer to project management, despite having a lot of PM experience and listing it on my resume. It's just never been a job title.
Transitioning to something different, or more niche, is much much easier when done internally and the people there know you.
Is it programming you've grown to dislike or your employer? Also I don't have kids so I realize that a side project as a prescription is most likely untenable for people with families.
That's a good question. I honestly don't know. I've also tried to recently learn some machine learning/AI stuff and the motivation is just completely gone. It's impossible for me to open my IDE and not dread it. I feel like I have a mental block for learning and I just give so few shits about anything software related right now I can't focus long enough to pick up anything new.
Maybe I'm burnt out. Maybe if I take some time off then try to approach something new I will find some sort of joy in it. I think I am definitely struggling because I've done what I do (full stack web dev) for SO LONG. I've been making websites since I was 10 and I'm in my thirties now.
My employer is kind but boring. I don't have a personal relationship with anyone there and have been 100% remote from the start for my past couple jobs, which doesn't lend itself well to building relationships (for me, anyway).
I would love to transition to doing something more team oriented, more social, doing something cool with cool people. I'm in Seattle and have applied to a couple Bungie jobs, and I would absolutely love the chance to just help build some video games as a project manager, even if I was getting paid a third of what I am now.
Unfortunately the job market is horrendous, cool jobs are hyper competitive, and trying to transition to something new while also changing employers is super hard. It's all working against me.
When I got my current job I was throwing things at the wall trying to find something that could pass as a business. Ultimately I found what I'm working on but ran out of money and it wouldn't generate very much or anytime soon.
I got incredibly fortunate and found a job at a big company right before COVID. When I started working I was pretty burnt out myself and found it hard to code on either the side project or the work projects. But I was broke and in debt so I had to keep going. The drive came back to do better at work and on the side project.
Sounds like recharging might be in order for you. Idk what your financial situation is but as a dev taking a year off hopefully shouldn't be too much of a burden. It was for me and I lived off CC's. I still recommend it, especially if you're burnt out and considering leaving tech.
Maybe once the world reopens take a year off. Don't open your laptop lid for 6 months and pursue other passions and then reevaluate.
It’s mentally exhausting. You get into it thinking you’re gonna build cool shit, instead you jump through hoops for business school grads as they come up with shitty ideas and try to apply their shitty high pressure motivation tactics on you.
However, I haven't really started real estate business properly, and still have day job. Do you have any advice for software devs to transition to real estate?
One thing I'll note: people often disregard real estate as a "backup career". It takes a very broad skill set - everything from marketing to finance to construction and design skills, along with a whole lot of psychology, to do it right. The reason I point this out is that unless you are in a market that is just completely flush with opportunities, you really need to be committed to it and not just as a sideline if you want to understand what's happening in your market and how to compete successfully. In my own area I see a lot of part-timers who don't really understand market dynamics and they screw over a lot of their clients as a result and/or make poor investment choices.
Just like all the startup advice you've ever received: have a plan and just do it.
2. Everyone hates the recruiting industry so it's ripe for disruption with an actual technical recruiter.
To get you first paying client, is it as simple as finding a payment agreement online (something like "If the employee stays at company for 90 days company shall pay %x fee")? Did you start the agency while still working as a VP of Engineering and slowly switch over?
I'm early in the journey to find my first client!
It doesn't really matter I guess, just something I noticed.
https://www.ecolint.ch/sites/default/files/logo_eig_bleu.png
And there are tricks for dealing with cities, like parking on the edge and biking in. Or finding RV friendly lots using google maps satellite images.
Lately cities have far less to offer (no museums, galleries, restaurants, etc.) so it’s hike and bike and enjoy the beautiful country.
I left mostly because I became fascinated by security, while I was being asked to secure software. I realised I had no real idea how to do this, and the deeper I dug, the more interesting it seemed.
I was also becoming bored by the relentless cyclic churn in software development methodologies and frameworks, and how fashion led the whole thing seemed to be.
It's a the job title? I always considered Scrum Master more like an additional (sometimes rotating) responsibility of a team member, be it a dev or PM.
On the other hand, Scrum Coach is more like a job, or rather a contracting gig.
I saw them spend all their time to create reports no one consumed and do "illusion of activity" kind of stuff. They did retrospectives that never led to change, had to justify why development was behind schedule and find new and creative ways to make burn down charts look better than reality.
* Left SE job for a PhD in CS, roughly 50% of a good SE salary here in Northern Europe
* Do some Product Management/Innovation advisory on the side
I left SE because I found the type of programming one typically does, as well as the Jira ticket-pushing, uninspiring. I still write code, but (almost) only because I enjoy it (a PhD in CS does not necessarily involve much, or any, programming).
I do know people who have either done the FAANG thing, the investment bank thing, or beat the odds and won the startup lottery thing who have retired genuinely early because they weren't doing what they actually wanted to be doing--which could include traveling and kicking back.
But retiring 5-10 years earlier than the norm doesn't require much more than having had a string of reasonably well-paying jobs, being sensible with money, and being fortunate enough to avoid financial disasters.
We also live in a low cost of living area and have no kids. The house will be paid off and we'll have a bit over 3m saved by the time we're in our early 40s.
After 2 years he’s happy to be back in air conditioning.
But, while work isn't a source of joy for me, it is a source of structure. I'm still trying to figure out if my life would be better without it.
Have you thought of switching to a low paying but more fulfilling job?
I'm not really sure what I'd find more fulfilling in the day-to-day of salaried employment. In an abstract sense, sure, I could build websites to help orphaned puppies find forever homes instead of to help people find mattresses or whatever. However, if overall impact is my objective, I'm better off keeping the highest-paying job I can (consistent with my values) and donating my salary to charity.
Where did you first meet each other?
The lack of energy may be due to a lack of a pushing force, such as a boss.
Currently doing something on that topic if you want to discuss more.
2. Wanted to try something different... last software engineer post was 2010. I became very interested in Evolutionary Computation, so I went for a sponsored PhD position.