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> A Very British Obsession

> Edmund Hillary took [a jar] up Everest

Edmund Hillary wasn’t British.

I didn’t know that and I don’t think we were taught that detail. He was from New Zealand and ‘we count that’ as some say. The teachers probably stressed the British expedition part of the truth.

I can’t stand Seville orange marmalade but lime marmalade is good.

Aussie here. Home made seville orange marmalade is the good stuff. Everything else is just gross orange sugar goop. If I wanted to spread flavoured sucrose onto my bread, there are much more appealing options like blackberry.

(And don't get me started about lime. Lime is the most overrated citrus.)

Where can you buy Seville orange marmalade in Aus? The cheap marmalade you buy from Coles is like gelatin + sugar with some orange food coloring.
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Nowhere. I have to make it myself or wait for my mum to produce a new batch. She has so much interest that she makes 20–30 jars at a time.
My mum emigrated to Gold Coast decades ago - still makes great marmalade in her 80s!
Hillary also really pissed off the British explorer Fuchs on the Trans-Antarctic Expedition by racing ahead to the South Pole when he was only supposed to be laying out food caches. [1]

But here in NZ, we kinda like the fact that he stuck it to the British. We even have one of his modified tractors in the Canterbury Museum.

Another random factoid - part of Hillary's team was Peter Mulgrew, who died in the Erebus disaster[2] having replaced Hillary as the tour guide at the last minute.

[1]: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/hillary-reaches-south-pole

[2]: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/erebus-disaster

(Disclaimer: I'm not British nor a native speaker and have no interest in claiming one side or the other)

When Edmund Hillary was born in Auckland (in 1919), New Zealdn was not yet independent, but a "Dominion" of the British Empire.

What would even be the best demonym to refer to anyone born in that dominion?

New Zealander or Kiwi. Our sense of being a nation distinct from "Home" as Britain was called really took off after World War One.

While we weren't technically independent, we'd been self-governing since 1865, although it took us a lot longer to cut all of the apron strings, and well, the Queen is still our head of state, so who knows if or when we'll go full republic - most NZers don't really care. But hey, in the 2000s we stopped using the Privy Council in England as our highest court.

http://www.firstworldwar.tki.org.nz/assets/Uploads/Images/Y5...

According to a gov.nz site

"In 1948 New Zealanders became New Zealand citizens – before that they had been British citizens."

So Hillary would have been a British citizen most of his life and possibly acquired a liking for marmalade while in that state.

To add to that it was only a few years earlier, 1947 (vs 1953) that NZ ratified the law allowing their further independence from Britain. Wikipedia claims that into the 70s many in NZ considered themselves to be part of a British colony.

Also the expedition was the "British Mount Everest expedition". I think it's fair to include marmalade being in Hillary's supplies as being indicative of British cultural adoration of marmalade. Hillary's grandparents were from Yorkshire, UK.

Apparently Hillary, as his father and brother, was a beekeeper; I wonder if he took honey too.

Well as someone from The Commonwealth, he was Brit-ish.
His team also took Kendal Mint Cake up Everest:

> Sir Edmund Hillary and his team carried Romney's Kendal Mint Cake with them on the first successful ascent of Mount Everest in 1953. The packaging currently includes the following: “'We sat on the snow and looked at the country far below us … we nibbled Kendal Mint Cake.' A member of the successful Everest expedition wrote – 'It was easily the most popular item on our high altitude ration – our only criticism was that we did not have enough of it.'”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendal_Mint_Cake

Imagine a Peppermint Pattie, but intensified by an order of magnitude.

I think most folks are missing out if they just try the british version of orange marmalade.

The Portuguese original 'marmelada' made from quinces is sooo much better IMOH.

But (again in my opinion) nothing surpass the Brazilian take on marmelade, the "Goiabada", which is made with guava.

This is the most posh thing I've read on HN so far. Don't share this with strangers unless you want everyone to know you're elite.
Perhaps it's posh from an american centric point of view. If you are in Portugal or Brazil it is as posh as eating butter.
Don't see the poshness? Elaborate?
DoingIsLearning blatantly admits to eating "foreign" food and from more than one country! Perhaps not being from the UK is no excuse! ;-)
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You couldn't make this post scream more Americuaaaa!
wow ok, eating food thats common in your region makes you elite. OK... makes you seem like a fool.
I don't know why some Brits keep saying this. Wine is not posh, expensive sausages are not posh, quality food is not posh.

Why are you trying to create a divide, and why are you on the "lesser" side? Ignore the strange "posh" elite, they're morons. You can do whatever you want in Britain, no matter your situation (coming from an actually divided poor country, yes, really).

Why do you assume the GP is a Brit?
Heard quite a few Brits saying that. I guess it was their "if only I".

If only I was born to different parents, if only I was born in a different country, if only I had more money, if only I had friends in high places, if only the elite didn't keep us down. Lots of excuses, sometimes valid, but often not.

Working class Brits don't realize how much opportunity they have in their own country, and it's sad.

Personally I think that a pretty stupid generalisation. Yes there are more opportunities in the UK, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a class divide too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_t...

Look at the university column.

Working class people get the opportunity to go to the top universities as well - which university you went to isn't a definitive statement about your background. I came from a working class background, went to a generic local comprehensive, then was accepted into the University of Cambridge.
We have quince jelly too in Britain. As the article says, there are marmalades and marmalades - the good stuff is great!
Marmelada (and by the looks of it goiabada) are a very different thing to Marmalade. I have had quince cheese here in the UK which effectively seem to be a form of marmelada.

Both are tasty but I wouldn't consider one to be "better" than the other, any more than I would consider peanut butter to be "better" than dijon mustard.

Marmalade is a form of citrus jam, very sweet, usually very sharp, and containing candied citrus peel. It's generally eaten on toast for breakfast. Quince cheese (in the UK) is generally less sweet, is a quince paste rather than a jam, and is used as an accompaniment to hard cheeses as an alternative to chutney. I believe this is how it is largely eaten in Spain, too, with manchego.

So while both marmelada and goiabada are great (I presume, having not tried goiabada), it's really a different thing to marmalade.

A different history, credits Marmalade as a successor to decades of Marmelada import - that it simply got less leathery and more jammy to suit the market. But that sounds apocryphal once I read the OP.
I disagree, just because they are different in taste doesn't mean they are not historically related.

Portuguese 'Marmelada' is absolutely a historic ancestor of the british version. Atlas obscura has a good article on this. [0]

[0] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/what-is-marmelada

Sure, the word for one was derived from the other, but the recipes are very different, as are the end products. So much so that they occupy separate culinary niches, and I wouldn't consider them to be 'versions' of the same thing.

See also US/British flapjacks.

Again, it is not just shared words.

The earliest references to the orange version of marmalade, was marmalade made for Queen Catherine of Braganza (A portuguese noblewoman in the british court). It's innacurate to claim they are just phonetically related.

Right, but since then "marmalade" has become a citrus jam containing the candied peel of the fruit, far more like other jams, and really quite dissimilar to the quince product from which it draws its name.

It's merely a categorisation thing I suppose, but to me they occupy very different niches, and saying one is better than the other is comparing quinces to oranges...

The question isn't whether they're historically related, but whether they are sufficiently similar as to be comparative -- the american hotdog and the german sausage may have shared elements, and presumably shared roots, and I wouldn't doubt that the hotdog is a modified sausage -- but they are so distinctly different in taste, texture, quality, usecase and goals, that it doesn't really make sense to say that the german sausage is a better hotdog, or vice versa. Even if the hotdog was still called a sausage. (and sticking a full sausage on a hotdog bun? A criminal act if I ever saw one)

If it doesn't look like a duck, and it doesn't quack like a duck, then it ain't a duck. Even if you called it a duck the last 500 years, it still ain't a duck -- at least, it's not a duck like my duck's a duck.

I've spent many years living in the UK, to put it politely British food is rather fulfilling but it is nothing to write home about. Fun fact, British will happily tell you that they are eating out for X dinner tonight, and X can be Arabic, Chinese, Indian, etc but never British :-)

I kind of like British fish and chips, the staple food for British people. But then once I've tasted Spanish fish and chips in Costa del Sol, I have just realised that I've not tasted a real fish & chips!

But the main reason I am looking forward for breakfast in any British eatery or any of their Bed & Breakfast apart from their wonderful Earl Grey tea, it will be their delicious marmalade. If I've remembered correctly, I have fallen in love in the very first bite!

> but never British :-)

To be fair though, a lot probably wouldn't consider the main place you get "British" food, the pub, as "eating out" because it's rather less formal.

> but it is nothing to write home about

I'll grant you that it's very, very variable, and the quality of a lot of pub food is crap in a lot of places. However there are lots of pubs that you can get very good British food (my local, for example - https://www.dancingmanbrewery.co.uk/food-glorious-food/resta...). You just have to know where you're going. And probably pay quite a lot for the good stuff. And avoid the chains.

There are many good, British restaurants around too - places like the Hawksmoor in London, or the Oxford Brasserie here in Southampton (the menu is here - https://www.theoxfordbrasserie.co.uk/menu). I wouldn't necessarily say I was going out "for British food" when I was visiting them though.

Do Thai people say they're going out for Thai food if they head out to eat in their home country? (I have no idea!)

Your local is a nice looking pub, and I like the doggie menu, but would you call it Birtish food? The starters seem British but the mains are burgers, ribs and fish.
Why would fish not be a British food? We are an island nation and fish has always been a big part of our cuisine.

The rib meat in that main is slow cooked, shredded meat from short ribs, not served as "ribs". And with a horseradish gravy, yes that's very british.

It's a shortened menu due to Coronavirus, usually there is a roast lamb and a pork belly dish too.

Plus there are three shortcrust pies, not explicitly called out as they are rotating specials, served with gravy and mashed potato.

All in all it's a very British menu, though yes there are two burgers on there. There are burgers literally everywhere these days!

Sorry, no offense was meant. In my defense basic fish dishes are generic Western fare and burgers made up 50% of the mains menu. It does all sound delicious and that English take on ribs is mouth watering.
No defence needed, and yes, the burger has conquered the world :)
One of these days I will summon the courage to try the famous English jellied eels :)
Ha! Rather you than me! There are some things that are just a step too far :)
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BZZZT

Pedant alert: Fish and Chips is not originally British! (It's only been a staple over here since the 1860s.)

The chips had their origin as Belgian frites, and the fish is from Sephardic Jewish immigrants from Holland, who picked up and modified the recipe for pescado frito. (Fried fish could be eaten cold the next day, so was suitable for shabbat.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_chips

Counter-pedantry alert: does a food or way of cooking have to all be 'originally' from somewhere, to be said to be characteristic of that place?

For instance, chili peppers were introduced to asia by the portuguese during the 15th century, but now chili-heavy dishes are characteristic of much SE Asian and Indian cooking.

Is pasta characteristic of Italian cooking or do we need to look further back to ancient greek origins and say it's not really from there?

Are we sure we should credit either France or Belgium with the British 'chip'? While they argue over the origins of fries between themselves, and certainly their 'frites' pre-date the British chip-shop, they are cut very differently. Or do they both owe their heritage to Spanish "Patatas", as Spain had the potato first, and really, frying the damn things is pretty obvious when you think about it ...

Personally I think things cross-pollinate constantly, and very little can be considered solely and exclusively the property of one culture or other.

Funnily enough, like British Chinese and Indian food, fish and chips are likely a pseudo-fusion import (they're believed to have been invented by Sephardic Jewish immigrants).
Chinese food is supposed to be remarkably good at adapting itself to local tastes and ingredients (I remember the gloopy dayglo orange sweet and sour sauce from 80s UK Chinese takeaways). Cuban Chinese is apparently amazing.
Not sure about Chinese, but Japanese food in UK is mostly not edible, by my standards at least. Being fusion is a huge disadvantage for me. I go to Japanese restaurant when I want to taste original Japanese cuisine not some generic Asian mishmash. Either this or some obscure version of the dishes. Like, where does it come from that kare (curry) must always be katsu? Funnily enough this katsu is chicken. First time in my life I see katsu chicken. It should be pork. Or katsudon without an egg on top. Or tonkotsu ramen (in super hyper popular and regarded place) that doesn't look nor taste like one. It was good enough ramen, but why call it tonkotsu if it doesn't resemble it? Sure there are one or two good restaurants in city but that takes 1h minimum from zone 4 - one way.
I've never been to Japan, so can't comment on how authentic anything in the UK is, but ...

We have 'wagamama' which at best can be said to be japanese influenced, and a few chain sushi places (like Yo Sushi) across the country. They really aren't all that great. But if you look at some of the smaller/independent Japanese places that are around and about, they seem to be far better quality. I think London probably suffers from its centre being dominated by chains.

But on katsu ... I've had Chicken Katsu Curry in the UK, sure, but also in Australia, in Singapore and in Bangkok. If that's not a big thing in Japanese Cuisine then quite a lot of the world might have grasped the wrong end of the stick!

> But on katsu ... I've had Chicken Katsu Curry in the UK, sure, but also in Australia, in Singapore and in Bangkok. If that's not a big thing in Japanese Cuisine then quite a lot of the world might have grasped the wrong end of the stick!

While I don't know about this specific case, it wouldn't necessarily be surprising to see 'fusion' food exported. You can get chicken tikka masala, which is a British Indian invention, all over the place these days (and in fact even the katsu curry might be a remote descendant of British Indian 'fusion' food; AIUI the Japanese navy adopted curry from the British in the 19th century).

I'm not saying that katsu kare is not existent in Japan, but in the UK it is basically the only kare you can get. On the contrary in Tokyo you have it among ten other options and it is definitely not the most popular one. I can say only about my experiences but I'd say the most popular is one with beef which is put in the stew.

The name of the dish is simply kare rasiu (curry with rise) and that's most common form. It's also super simple to make if you have rice cooker at home. Just pre-fry some onion, carrot and potatoes on the pan, then boil it with considerate amount of water and add curry blocks to it - done. You may add meat but it's just an additional ingredient which can be easily omitted. You can make it once and it lasts for couple of days. You can even freeze it if you want.

I already do make that at home sometimes, it's delicious :)
You rarely get local recipes in pubs. Lancashire hotpot, roast dinner with a yorkshire pud, breast of lamb and peas, scotch broth, and other wonderful delicacies like the pie barm, a fish supper with good gravy, black pudding with your breakfast, mash potato with cheese and beans, etc.

The reason you don't see them on a restaurant menu is because they're mostly functional meals you can leave in a slow cooker, or throw together with whatever you've got in the cupboards.

You will never know local british cuisine unless you were raised with it.

British sausages are better than any German wursts. Change my mind (don't try if you only had the cheapest stuff).
You mean "Emulsified High-Fat Offal Tubes"?

(No offence to British sausages intended, but I just had to sneak in that reference)

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

> It will be seen that we have no cause to be ashamed of our cookery, so far as originality goes or so far as the ingredients go. And yet it must be admitted that there is a serious snag from the foreign visitor’s point of view. This is, that you practically don’t find good English cooking outside a private house. If you want, say, a good, rich slice of Yorkshire pudding you are more likely to get it in the poorest English home than in a restaurant, which is where the visitor necessarily eats most of his meals.

> It is a fact that restaurants which are distinctively English and which also sell good food are very hard to find. Pubs, as a rule, sell no food at all, other than potato crisps and tasteless sandwiches. The expensive restaurants and hotels almost all imitate French cookery and write their menus in French, while if you want a good cheap meal you gravitate naturally towards a Greek, Italian or Chinese restaurant.

> British food is rather fulfilling but it is nothing to write home about

What about sandwiches(!), desserts, and gastropub fair? Tasty.

Not to mention afternoon tea (a fine tradition) and lots of nice grab-and-go lunch options in many shops. And items marked as suitable for (usually ovo-lacto-)vegetarians.

And cheeses, many cheeses (though they may not all be strictly British in origin.) And chocolate - even the humble Cadbury bar seems better than its US version.

There is also something to be said for the full English breakfast vs. the anemic "continental" breakfast.

If you ever get the chance, do try goiabada! It's not the same kind of taste (goiabada is usually very sweet rather than sharp, though some can be both - the "goiabada cascão" as it is called is usually sharper, but still predominantly sweet).

It is also often paired with cheese, both hard as well as the local "queijo minas", especially the "frescal" variety, which is a very young kind of cheese.

That being said, I haven't had UK marmalade to be able to compare, I'm coming from my experience in marmelada and extrapolating from there.

It is also often paired with cheese, both hard as well as the local "queijo minas", especially the "frescal" variety, which is a very young kind of cheese.

"Romeo e Julietta"

Yep, I didn't mention it because it is just the name of the pairing, not a specific product, and I'd already mentioned a lot of names.
It's definitely going on the list :)
And last but not least, there is also the mythical goiabada de marmelo from the sítio do picapau amarelo song :)
From my biased personal observation, I think the British have a higher affinity for bitter tastes due to their own heightened levels of bitterness. Maybe it's the weather. Incidentally, I believe British comedy being so good is also related to that.
Potentially there might also a genetic component? This is highly speculative on my part.
I sincerely doubt it, as there are celebrated British comedians of various ethnicities, for instance Romesh Ranganathan.
Oh I'm sorry, I meant to say "a genetic component to the perception of bitter flavors", much in the same way as with the taste of cilantro.
> I think the British have a higher affinity for bitter tastes due to their own heightened levels of bitterness. Maybe it's the weather.

As a Brit, I resent that! And plenty else besides. And that's despite the brief window of nice weather we're now having.

Which, incidentally, is too hot, and is making many of us terribly bothered. Some of us even border on the flummoxed.

Still more incidentally, I personally don't have strong feelings on marmalade, but I have very strong feelings on the proper way to prepare a scone. This is an issue that divides my nation. I refer the reader to an article which is about as British as the mind can comfortably conceive:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/quee...

And that's despite the brief window of nice weather we're now having.

It's lovely up here in Sunderland in the North East.

And by lovely, I mean it has stopped raining. It's nice and grey now.

Fine work. Here in London, we've apparently done something to deserve sun.

We'll be having words about that.

A strongly worded letter to management should resolve that promptly.
I’ve always been amused that people complain about the weather all year long and then when they finally get their week and a half of summer they complain that it’s too hot :)
I feel as that I should be offended, but then I realise the statement might have a sliver of truth in it.
Too much gin and tonic.

British cuisine doesn't really use bitterness much. Although Britain brought back curry from India they didn't pick up a taste for bitter cuisine such as gourds.

gin and tonic is pretty much India's national drink. Considering it was basically invented by the British to ..you know.. not die in India.

P.S. and so is hydroxychloroquine ;)

> P.S. and so is hydroxychloroquine ;)

Not any more! (The strains found in India are largely resistant these days, and other drugs are more appropriate.)

Is British ale/beer bitterer than elsewhere? I've heard it is, but can't confirm as I've never tried it. This might be a piece of evidence in your favour if so.
Easy to find stories on the origins of India Pale Ale and how it survived by ship through the tropics...
I don't think so. Craft beers have been pursuing hoppiness and hence bitterness for years and have totally swamped the other flavours for me. A decent bitter should be warm and comforting, not in your face like some of the craft beers go for.
I'm American, but I developed my taste for beer in the UK. It's so frustrating to be back in the States and want something akin to "a bitter" in the UK, and not being able to express it, because when you say "a bitter" the staff hear "the bitterest thing you have".
Prior to the craft beer "revolution" (think 2000s and earlier) it would've been. I don't think anywhere outside of UK and Ireland did this style of hoppier, bitter and often (though not always) darker coloured beer.

It's worth remembering though that from the '80s[0] onward Lagers would've dominated beer sales in the UK. So while we could buy more bitter beer than available elsewhere, we often didn't.

[0] - I've no source from this, it may have started earlier but at a certain point in the mid-late 20th century we shifted to lager. Often very poor quality ones like Carling, Foster's or Tennents that would not compare favourably to those available in Germany, Belgium or Czech Republic.

Belgium? It has an abundance of excellent ales, but it isn't noted for its lagers. They're mass (Maes?) produced. The same goes for the UK. I suspect it's mostly down to marketing by big brewers.
Ah I wasn't trying to say these are all primarily lager-producing countries, but I worded the sentence stupidly. Main thing is even the mass-produced and popular beers in these places are far better than ours. While taste is subjective, I don't think anyone would argue for Carling over, for example, Pilsner Urquell.
As a former expat kind of. Most of my Spanish friends would find some of the snacks I had with my bitter to be disgusting along with some of the food I used to have at Lunch.
Classic British "Bitters" are hardly bitter by today's standards. But they are lovely when served out of the cask in a nice pub. One of my favorite things about going to the UK is drinking the old time, local ale's from a hand-pumped cask.
I love being downvoted for this. I also love British culture, cuisine, and people. Love all of you. I'm so glad I moved here.
Perhaps you also picked up the British habit of insulting people or groups you're fond of, which is quite shocking at first to Americans? If that's what you meant, I didn't pick it up in your original post, even though I've lived in the UK for over a decade now.
I don't know about that but its always great hearing about US-UK attitudes, especially since they almost always tend to "accuse" each other of the same things.
To be fair, anything you can add whisky to is good.
I googled that and was astonished to discover that orange & whisky marmalade is a thing.
Yes. And it's delicious.
As a Brit I hadn't had Marmalade for years and then was given a jar to sustain myself by Thai medical staff while under covid quarantine in Ao Nang. I guess they figured that was what Brits should be fed on. It was rather nice for a change.
Melon jam (from jam melons) is among the best I have tried.
As a Spaniard from Andalucía (and living now in London), I am always amazed at the British obsession with Seville oranges. As it turns out, a relative of mine actually produces lots of oranges in Seville, most of them going to the UK.
What's amazing about it? They make by far the best marmalade (although it's true that a lot of the commercially-made stuff is mediocre, so if that's all you've tried then you might not understand).

Anyway, if the people in Seville are prepared to part with their treasures, we're delighted to take them!