I recommend checking @nexta_live in Telegram to understand the scale of protests and the scale of violence there. It’s in Russian and Belarusian language, but there are plenty of videos of what’s happening now.
I'm aware, and the wiki goes into the complications as well. I'm suggesting that, along the lines of what the parent comment did, putin might find this an opportunity to strengthen the union agreement, perhaps make good on some of those promises to increase unity to increase influence
of course it will. belarus is more of a russian republic, not its own country. they speak russian -most people don't know the belorussian language, which is just redneck russian. it's an open border with russia. you know how you're driving in illinois and there's just a sign on the side 'welcome to indiana?' welcome to belarus.
they also have a co-mingled army, as in not just joint drills but belarus soldiers taking orders from russian generals. in fact, in case of a war, the agreement is russia commands the belarussian forces.
so, dictatorship notes aside, it would absolutely be proper and expected for putin to help the government of belarus, as per their agreements.
source: am russian, went there for work for several years as an adult, have been to belarus, have friends from belarus.
ah, yes, us americans with our common russian colonialist attitude towards belarus.
i'm quite agaist russia actually. it is quite funny you think belarus, bordering russia, which used to be russia not too long ago, is a fully autonomous and separate country.
as far as the language. you know how rednecks speak english? what if the north and south separated into separate countries. the south was less industrious, had worse education, was about 30 years back in technology and law. that's russia and belarus. and it does absolutely sound like the russian a farmer speaks. to the point i can understand it easily spoken and in print.
belarus and russia (and ukraine) are literally the same people, the slavs.
me, having learned proper french living in versailles, can say canada speaks redneck french. it sounds like that from the accent. this apparently means the french have a colonialist attitude towards canada. how about, stop spreading your anti-russian narrative with fake information. there's plenty of real bad things to make russia look bad.
> belorussian language, which is just redneck russian
Just like Poland, Slovak, Czech, Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian, right? This is BS, I've been there and it does not fit "East Slavic languages are brothers, others are not". Each language is quite different yet similar, just like Ukrainian vs Russian. A lot of shared vocabulary, but base is not the same - sounds, stress, short-long vowels, hard-soft consonants
доброе утро (RU)
добрий ранок (UA)
dobré ráno (SK)
dobro jutro (HR)
And Ukrainian and Russian are not single entity either, each region has its own dialect, 100 km is enough to hear (Kharkiv-Poltava, Belgorod-Kursk).
Authentic language is beautiful [1], interviewer language is bastardized. They should catch pronunciation not vocabulary.
i speak fluent proper moscow-russian, as i was born there. the way the redneck farmers speak sounds the same as belarus and ukrainian. in fact, the russian rednecks use many ukrainian words, not just pronounciation. hence redneck russian. it literally sounds like they talk in a russian village.
same as to the french (and me) canadian french sounds uneducated. same as canadian english sounds bad, eh?
the other languages you list, outside of your cherrypicked examples, are very different. how do i know? with ukrainian and belorussian, i can just have a coversation in the language. i take a russian word and i say it with a ukrainian accent -they understand me, and i fully understand them. in the ones you list, it's not canadian french vs france french. it's like spanish vs french. i can kinda understand the general idea of what they're saying, if i focus. they sound foreign -like when i hear spanish, only knowing french.
it's southern china vs redneck north china mandarin. your examples are mandarin vs cantonese.
and while most of ukraine and belarus don't even speak their own language, when they do it's not clean. they speak суржик, which is a mix of russian and their language. so it literally is bastardised russian.
and btw, i lived in kiev for almost 2 years, and have visited every country in europe. i really do know what i'm talking about 1st hand. so i didn't watch your youtube video. it would be like you posting a link explaining why water is dry.
I believed same narrative as you, I was born near border (native Russian speaker) and we do have суржик, never liked it. Later I've traveled to Ukrainian Carpathians, they have beautiful language there, I liked it and learned it.
When I've been in Europe it was Ukrainian which was close to these languages, not Russian.
Sure people understand when you speak Russian with Ukrainian accent - they speak Russian, they would understand without accent too. They speak Russian in Croatia and Slovak too - not a lot, but some do, it proves nothing.
The truth is language division is political, it is dialects all around. You believe in narrative that suits Russia politics. But the story works both ways - one can argue that Russian is redneck language, not a proper Kievan Rus descendant, its people can't even communicate with other Slavs.
I've been to Moscow, funny accent. I've been to Russian village (under Kursk), they speak Russian there, as Ukrainian speaker I should know.
So you know 1st hand, I know 1st hand, how about I don't say shit about Russian and you don't say shit about Belarusian and Ukrainian?
> i take a russian word and i say it with a ukrainian accent -they understand me, and i fully understand them.
You aren't speaking Ukrainian, you are speaking a creole, surzhik, with people that aren't obnoxious enough to point out your mistakes. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but nothing to draw conclusions from either.
so, to fit your narrative you're purposely ignoring the second part of that same sentence where i state i can fully understand ukrainian, yet not croatian and the other languages listed, and that you can't turn russian into serbian like you can with ukrainian because it's too different a language.
you then tell me i'm speaking surzhyk, which i specifically said is what is being spoken. then you give me a wiki link, so i can find out about the thing my entire post is about. the fact that you can make суржик out of russian with ukrainian and belorussian, yet you can't with the other languages listed. because they are very different languages. which exactly disputes the claim of op, that they're the same.
bravo sir. fox news is now accepting applications, and they want you.
This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid.
Russian needs europe to sell its oil and gas to and get luxury goods and food from. Do you think their chinese friends would approve? EU is third economical block in the world China would take a hit not able to trade with EU as freely if there is a war with russia.
Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia. So let's stop scaring people with this pale faded red scare.
> This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid.
It is not stupid.
Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario.
Defending a long front is much harder.
> Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia.
Russia had already been in the perpetual collapsing state economically since the end of sky high oil prices. Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass.
Russian military goal was, and is to invade Europe. Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, Montenegro, Libya were all parts of the chain leading to it. It is undisputable.
That's what military does. They have free time so they make plans for all occasions.
Military is not government.
> Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario.
And what else would you propose they do. Of course they will place them there, that doesn't mean threat of invasion is high.
> Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass.
That's not how it works. Putin is not a moron and he clearly tries to create image of powerful imperial russia. Its a show for the 'people eating grass' because if too many of them start complaining he will loose power.
EU considering sanctions against Belarus, but simultaneously has no response to the US heavy-handedness and unconstitutional handling of the protest movement there. This is hypocrisy. The EU don't care for the Belarusian citizens, they just want the government toppled, which would create another Ukraine, a civil war. NATO is continuously creeping towards Russia creating an ever more dangerous situation for everyone involved.
There’s no reason for civil war in Belarus. The country is too tired of the ex-president and the only reason he’s still in power is a clique of generals of security services, who will be held accountable for their crimes if opposition wins. You not knowing that apparently do not care much too.
If you think there will not be a violent reaction to a coup in Belarus you are very wrong. People outside Ukraine thought that the Ukrainian coup would represent a peaceful transition once completed, due to the unpopularity of Yanukovych. It resulted in a bloody civil war and the rise of ultra-nationalism, because coups represent much more than a transition of the presidency, they represent a fundamental shift in governmental power and the interests it serves.
It is really very difficult to have a rational discussion about world affairs without pointing out the hypocrisy of the West - but you have definitely struck a chord here.
People forget that sanctions are, literally, an act of war. The haste by which sanctions are called for, by the pseudo-intellectually decadent - wealthy, privileged, distant - is truly something to behold.
It has long been thought that, when World War 3 finally comes to the West (which it started in 2003), it will be through civil unrest over what we have done to the world. We can't hide our burning piles of rubble for much longer.
But do you think Belarussians have what it takes to defend their country from external influence, such as was the case with Ukraine? Belarussia seems to have a very weak media structure... isn't this kind of necessary, to prevent external actors having undue, often times very violent, influence over society?
Domestic forces have always proven to be much more of a threat than foreign ones. The end result will entirely depend on will of the Belarusian people, and whether or not foreign backers holds off for another day given the Belarusian response to these protests. In the case of a dramatic escalation of the situation, there will likely be foreign military support (for both sides), but no kind of foreign invasion. So how this turns out, if there will be a separation of the country like in Ukraine or not, is quite impossible to say right now, at least in my eyes.
Ukrain had rather strong linguistic division into two camps, even before it became an open conflict. There is no similar deep sectarian division within Belarus.
This account is spreading exactly the same message that russian propaganda does. There is probability that it was created as a part of [russian troll army][1] that is financially supported by russian government.
Oh, please. Just because my opinion does not reflect western geopolitical interests it must be "Russian propaganda" according to you? Way to shut down dissenting opinions by labeling it propaganda.
Attacking another user in this way is explicitly against the site guidelines:
"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
In reality, the community is simply divided between people with very different views. Accusing someone else of being a spy or provocateur simply because they expressed a view you disagree with is pouring poison into the community. Lots more explanation here:
I guess I was triggered by amount of users that were registered very recently and that they are broadcasting the same messages as pro-kremlin propaganda does.
Will not do this again. Thanks for letting me know.
He will eventually die, like Brezhnev. Accountable for their crimes? Hardly. What is more likely is Russia installing a vassal head of state or even organising a referendum a'la Crimea after Belarus is occupied by little green men w/o insignia. This has been in their playbook since 1946.
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[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 82.4 ms ] threadhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_State
they also have a co-mingled army, as in not just joint drills but belarus soldiers taking orders from russian generals. in fact, in case of a war, the agreement is russia commands the belarussian forces.
so, dictatorship notes aside, it would absolutely be proper and expected for putin to help the government of belarus, as per their agreements.
source: am russian, went there for work for several years as an adult, have been to belarus, have friends from belarus.
along with the rest of the comment, this passage nicely emphasizes the common russian colonialist attitude towards belarus
i'm quite agaist russia actually. it is quite funny you think belarus, bordering russia, which used to be russia not too long ago, is a fully autonomous and separate country.
as far as the language. you know how rednecks speak english? what if the north and south separated into separate countries. the south was less industrious, had worse education, was about 30 years back in technology and law. that's russia and belarus. and it does absolutely sound like the russian a farmer speaks. to the point i can understand it easily spoken and in print.
belarus and russia (and ukraine) are literally the same people, the slavs.
me, having learned proper french living in versailles, can say canada speaks redneck french. it sounds like that from the accent. this apparently means the french have a colonialist attitude towards canada. how about, stop spreading your anti-russian narrative with fake information. there's plenty of real bad things to make russia look bad.
Just like Poland, Slovak, Czech, Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian, right? This is BS, I've been there and it does not fit "East Slavic languages are brothers, others are not". Each language is quite different yet similar, just like Ukrainian vs Russian. A lot of shared vocabulary, but base is not the same - sounds, stress, short-long vowels, hard-soft consonants
And Ukrainian and Russian are not single entity either, each region has its own dialect, 100 km is enough to hear (Kharkiv-Poltava, Belgorod-Kursk).Authentic language is beautiful [1], interviewer language is bastardized. They should catch pronunciation not vocabulary.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlu4lf5P4x0&t=7m20s
same as to the french (and me) canadian french sounds uneducated. same as canadian english sounds bad, eh?
the other languages you list, outside of your cherrypicked examples, are very different. how do i know? with ukrainian and belorussian, i can just have a coversation in the language. i take a russian word and i say it with a ukrainian accent -they understand me, and i fully understand them. in the ones you list, it's not canadian french vs france french. it's like spanish vs french. i can kinda understand the general idea of what they're saying, if i focus. they sound foreign -like when i hear spanish, only knowing french.
it's southern china vs redneck north china mandarin. your examples are mandarin vs cantonese.
and while most of ukraine and belarus don't even speak their own language, when they do it's not clean. they speak суржик, which is a mix of russian and their language. so it literally is bastardised russian.
and btw, i lived in kiev for almost 2 years, and have visited every country in europe. i really do know what i'm talking about 1st hand. so i didn't watch your youtube video. it would be like you posting a link explaining why water is dry.
When I've been in Europe it was Ukrainian which was close to these languages, not Russian.
Sure people understand when you speak Russian with Ukrainian accent - they speak Russian, they would understand without accent too. They speak Russian in Croatia and Slovak too - not a lot, but some do, it proves nothing.
The truth is language division is political, it is dialects all around. You believe in narrative that suits Russia politics. But the story works both ways - one can argue that Russian is redneck language, not a proper Kievan Rus descendant, its people can't even communicate with other Slavs.
I've been to Moscow, funny accent. I've been to Russian village (under Kursk), they speak Russian there, as Ukrainian speaker I should know.
So you know 1st hand, I know 1st hand, how about I don't say shit about Russian and you don't say shit about Belarusian and Ukrainian?
You aren't speaking Ukrainian, you are speaking a creole, surzhik, with people that aren't obnoxious enough to point out your mistakes. It's nothing to be ashamed of, but nothing to draw conclusions from either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surzhyk
you then tell me i'm speaking surzhyk, which i specifically said is what is being spoken. then you give me a wiki link, so i can find out about the thing my entire post is about. the fact that you can make суржик out of russian with ukrainian and belorussian, yet you can't with the other languages listed. because they are very different languages. which exactly disputes the claim of op, that they're the same.
bravo sir. fox news is now accepting applications, and they want you.
That's pretty much in the working if the EU will not do first. If not, the world will see Russian tank armies on the border with Poland again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast
This whole rhetoric of scary Russian tanks and missiles ready to attack is stupid.
Russian needs europe to sell its oil and gas to and get luxury goods and food from. Do you think their chinese friends would approve? EU is third economical block in the world China would take a hit not able to trade with EU as freely if there is a war with russia.
Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia. So let's stop scaring people with this pale faded red scare.
It is not stupid.
Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario.
Defending a long front is much harder.
> Any military conflict with EU would be an economical collapse of Russia.
Russia had already been in the perpetual collapsing state economically since the end of sky high oil prices. Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass.
Russian military goal was, and is to invade Europe. Georgia, Ukraine, Syria, Montenegro, Libya were all parts of the chain leading to it. It is undisputable.
That's what military does. They have free time so they make plans for all occasions.
Military is not government.
> Kaliningrad is a small city surrounded with Polish tank regiments just in case of such scenario.
And what else would you propose they do. Of course they will place them there, that doesn't mean threat of invasion is high.
> Russian regime doesn't seem to mind at all its people eating grass.
That's not how it works. Putin is not a moron and he clearly tries to create image of powerful imperial russia. Its a show for the 'people eating grass' because if too many of them start complaining he will loose power.
It is so exactly because those guys are being deterred by Polish tank divisions. They see their big, scary guns, and tremble in fear.
Poland is all flat land. It is very vulnerable to tank armies. If that deterrence wasn't there, Poland would've been invaded by Russians.
The Kremlin seeing it all well, and Putin having not the worst military education himself, know they have very little chance to mount a direct attack.
This is exactly why they've been working on the "Southern Route" for more than a decade. They want to attack Europe from its soft Southern underbelly.
> It is so exactly because those guys are being deterred by Polish tank divisions
I am lost for words if that is not a troll.
The Polish Armed Forces consist of 117,800 active duty
The Russian Armed Forces consist of 900,000 active duty
Thats just headcounts, not to mention the tech.
If russia wanted to invade poland they could do it within days.
Reading your replay again I think you are actually serious... and I have more important things to do, like banging my head against a brick wall.
People forget that sanctions are, literally, an act of war. The haste by which sanctions are called for, by the pseudo-intellectually decadent - wealthy, privileged, distant - is truly something to behold.
It has long been thought that, when World War 3 finally comes to the West (which it started in 2003), it will be through civil unrest over what we have done to the world. We can't hide our burning piles of rubble for much longer.
But do you think Belarussians have what it takes to defend their country from external influence, such as was the case with Ukraine? Belarussia seems to have a very weak media structure... isn't this kind of necessary, to prevent external actors having undue, often times very violent, influence over society?
This account is spreading exactly the same message that russian propaganda does. There is probability that it was created as a part of [russian troll army][1] that is financially supported by russian government.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades [2]: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43093390 [3]: https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17990946/twitter-russian-trol... [4]: https://www.vox.com/2018/10/19/17990946/twitter-russian-trol...
"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."
Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do this again.
In reality, the community is simply divided between people with very different views. Accusing someone else of being a spy or provocateur simply because they expressed a view you disagree with is pouring poison into the community. Lots more explanation here:
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
I guess I was triggered by amount of users that were registered very recently and that they are broadcasting the same messages as pro-kremlin propaganda does.
Will not do this again. Thanks for letting me know.
Trying to hide this sort of violence may be one reason for such outages.
[1] - https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disruption-hits-belar...
Rigged elections were expected, the question is if strikes are following. The weather is perfect for strikes.